Hello from Grand Rapids MI & San Antonio TX
Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 6 posts · 0 votes
Hello from Grand Rapids MI & San Antonio TX
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Investor · West Bloomfield, MI · Member since 2009 · 358 posts · 306 votes
13y@Peter WIlder , welcome and hello from another Michigander!
A couple months ago, after taking my kids to the museum in GR, we walked and drove around the city for a few hours. I was impressed with the activity both downtown and in the neighborhoods. While Detroit gets most of the buzz these days, good and bad, I think GR has more momentum overall than Detroit. The West Michigan economy also weathered the storm better than SE Michigan did.
There are several GR area investors here on BP who certainly have their finger on the pulse better than I do, hopefully they'll pop up on here shortly.
32 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes13y
Glad to see you here Peter. Use the keyword search tool at the top right to locate others in your area.
- Real Estate Investor · Davenport, IA · Member since 2013 · 71 posts · 17 votes13y
Welcome aboard Peter! So much information...from so many wonderful people...equals a greater chance of success!! Well, this is the place for the "greater success"!
- 13yBrandon TurnerPro MemberInvestor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Hey @Peter WIlder welcome to the site! I'm a huge fan of San Antonio, so enjoy your time there! Definitely jump in, ask questions, send colleague requests, and start connecting. ALso - don't forget your photo on your profile!
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes13y
I love Grand Rapids, very cool city, but you are probably better off sticking with TX! Much more growth there. Michigan has had a lot of problems. Not worht ruling out for sure, but of the two, I'd say TX is your better bet.
- Investor · Macomb, MI · Member since 2013 · 654 posts · 115 votes13y
@Peter WIlder , Welcome to BP and definitely keep connecting.
And ignore @Ali Boone ( no disrepect meant Ali ) about investing in Michigan. It is alive, well and growing. Us Michigan investors are growing our portfolios everyday. You can not base all of Michigan because of Detroit filing bankruptcy.
In fact even Detroit City investors are making money. You just have to be willing to deal with more drama. Quite frankly, as a SE Michigan investor making money in Real Estate, I'm getting tired of people beating up on Detroit and Michigan here on BP. They did the same thing when Michigan went under because of the Auto Industry.
Active Michigan investors to name a few
just to mentinon a few and there are many others locally that are not involved here on BP.
People who aren't from Michigan born and raised or at least lived here most of their life have NO IDEA what the State and Metro Detroit went through with the crash of the auto industry in 2008 and 2009. It's like comparing the crash of wallstreet and stock investors who lost everything with it!!
I am in the auto industry and personally took this hit and lost everything but the roof over my head!!! And this all happened at the same exact time I bought what was suppose to be my first flip property.
In fact I closed on the property on January 17, 2009 with the assurance from my boss (owner of the company) that I was NOT getting laid off. Two weeks later I got a call from the office manager and was laid off. Two house payments, truck payment, child support, utilities, newly married by only 2 months, pregnant wife who coudn't get a job at the time cause she also is in the auto industry as an engineer and I could go on but I won't.
I am proof of life after the auto industry fall and every day Michigan and Metro Detroit pull ahead more and more as I have 10 times fold from where I was before the fall!
And the best thing of all right now is your money stretches farther in quite a few areas of the Detroit suburbs and in Detroit itself.
But keep believing what the news says and out-of-state investors say if you want to. STAY AWAY... it leaves more properties and money for us locally!!
This is in no way aimed at anyone specific in this post but it was basically just the last one I can stand reading saying Michigan is NOT worth investing because of it's problems. Maybe this will turn into a blog post from me in the very near future.... who knows...
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes13y
Acccccctually I didn't say don't invest there. I just said TX could be a better bet because of the growth (which is factual, not opinion). Telling a new investor to ignore anyone is a fairly lame statement. Disagree with someone all you want, but be respectful at least. Burning bridges in REI never helped anyone.
- Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 6 posts · 0 votes13y
Thanks for the warm welcome everyone!!
@Ali Boone and @Aaron Yates thanks for the insight on target market. I will probably focus on both states for the next 2 years, but I am in the military and home sick so Michigan is the long term market for me.
Thanks for sharing your story Aaron. I know a lot of people that were affected by the auto industry crash. I am focusing on my home town of Grand Rapids, which seems to be rebounding quite well from the recession. It is also a large college town and there are always college students to rent too. Not the best renters, but pretty much guarantee low vacancy rates.
- Investor · West Bloomfield, MI · Member since 2009 · 358 posts · 306 votes13y
@Peter WIlder , welcome and hello from another Michigander!
A couple months ago, after taking my kids to the museum in GR, we walked and drove around the city for a few hours. I was impressed with the activity both downtown and in the neighborhoods. While Detroit gets most of the buzz these days, good and bad, I think GR has more momentum overall than Detroit. The West Michigan economy also weathered the storm better than SE Michigan did.
There are several GR area investors here on BP who certainly have their finger on the pulse better than I do, hopefully they'll pop up on here shortly.
- Investor · Macomb, MI · Member since 2013 · 654 posts · 115 votes13y
@Ali Boone , I was not being disrespectful. People tell new investors to stay out of Detroit and Michigan and they don't even know what's going on here. I do. I live here. I invest here. I'm not saying to ignore you as a person, I'm saying ignore the statement that Michigan has problems and TX would be better. I should have been clearer on what I meant.
@Peter WIlder , as mentioned above, I have read some of Ali's posts and she seems to be knowledgable in her areas. In fact I recently commented on one of her blogs because we are at the same obstacle right now. So I didn't mean ignore her, I meant ignore the statement about Michigan.
In regards to burning bridges, my comment is in no way doing that. My commment is stating a fact that Michigan is a great place to invest and make money. BP'ers comment about getting 7%-15% ROI. Currently my lowest NET ROI is 24% and my highest is 38%. My break even point is an average of 3 years and my properties become pure profit after that. So tell me why TX is better than that? The problem is too many people talk about something they have no knowledge about.
I wouldn't come on here and tell someone that my market is possibly better than someone else's market because I don't know that. Too many people on here do that and that doesn't help a new investor. They need information from everywhere and then they can make their own decision whether to pursue it or not.
@Tom A. , I have plans to be at the meeting Thursday... hopefully I make this one. I've been working in Flint.
- Specialist · Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo, MI · Member since 2013 · 392 posts · 116 votes13y
@Peter WIlder Welcome, and thank you for your service! I recently relocated to west Michigan, and love seeing great people on here from the area. If you're ever on leave and want to meet up to discuss investing, drop me a line!
- Real Estate Broker · Troy, MI · Member since 2012 · 42 posts · 12 votes13y
I'm also an investor in the southeast Michigan area. I'm also an agent, and I have to say, at the moment, our market is pretty hot. In my area (southeast Oakland County, primarily) we're seeing average DOM from 12-30 days. For nicely rehabbed properties, multiple offers over asking price is pretty common.
While I'm not intimately familiar with TX, I am familiar with what's happening there on a macro-level. It definitely looks like a sexy place to invest, and I've heard many opinions from seasoned investors singing it's praises.That being said, I've seen quite of few of those same investors quietly pick up properties in Detroit on the cheap. We're seeing a massive influx of investors from NYC and overseas coming into the SE MI area and picking up property left and right. The reality of this bankruptcy is that it's a fire sale. From the inside, I can see the state government has finally had enough and it's purging the city. After they gut the corruption there, the investors who picked things up for pennies on the dollar will turn the spigot back on and collectively grow their investments.
People from outside the area don't necessarily realize the nature and geography of the region, how massive it is, and how distinctly separated the different cities are economically, even though they can border each other. Some of the cities I work in, for example, are not what people would expect from "metro-Detroit". Bloomfield Hills, for example, only a few miles outside of the city, has an average sales price of $850k. Birmingham, right next to it, has an average sales price of $495k. A far cry from the $400 houses the national media likes to talk about.
This region is definitely going to experience a resurgence. Wealthy land developers from Manhattan rarely put their money down on loosing horses.
FYI - I'm an import from New Jersey, not a native, so I'm no auto industry apologist or otherwise emotionally blinded to economic realities. I'm seeing this activity every day, and personally profiting from it.
- Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes13y
Originally posted by Ali Boone:
@Aaron Yates
Acccccctually I didn't say don't invest there. I just said TX could be a better bet because of the growth (which is factual, not opinion). Telling a new investor to ignore anyone is a fairly lame statement. Disagree with someone all you want, but be respectful at least. Burning bridges in REI never helped anyone.
Respectful? You called Detroit a meth city, & michigan tenant friendly after proven wrong you disappeared, what a joke!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways, welcome to the site. You'll find the same people come out of the woodwork whenever michigan is mentioned, both good and bad. They just can't help themselves.
My brother is USAF and I visited him after he got through basic in SA. He just deployed to Guam and likes it a lot.
GR like most of michigan is booming. There is a lot of really good stuff going on over there.
- Investor · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 74 posts · 8 votes13y
@Peter WIlder I'm from Grand Rapids too. Started investing in RE there in 2008 with a duplex. Now have 31 units at an 11.6% cap rate on average. Mostly in Heritage Hill. Also, RE values in the city are up 12% year over year and rents/occupancy are strong. Not a bad place to invest in my opinion. If you ever want to talk about REI in the area let me know.
- Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 6 posts · 0 votes13y
@Joe Delia Thanks for the welcome. I always like hearing about fellow USAF comrades. Your brother is lucky I have heard good things about Guam.
@Jeremy D. I would love to talk with you about REI in GR. I am interested in learning your story. My main focus is in the Heritage Hill, Eastown, Gaslight,and Medical Mile areas. Mainly a box downtown north of Wealthy St., South of 196, East of 131, and West of the East Beltline. I would like to also learn your insight/opinion on property taxes and GR city compliance. In my opinion a lot of homes on the market are overvalued and it is hard to find good investments. Any strategies on finding my next property? feel free to inbox me.
- Involved In Real Estate · Potomac Falls, VA · Member since 2012 · 203 posts · 31 votes13yDefinitely welcome to BP! You'll learn a lot here. I was also in the Air Force and stationed in San Antonio for 4 years (not including the joy of BMT). I'm kicking myself for not having invested more when I lived there. I wasn't too smart about my goals back then (nearly 10 years ago). I had one brand new SFH with 3 beds, 2 baths and a 2 car. A perfect investment property an lookin back on the numbers, it made sense to keep and would have made me a nice profit. But, I sold it when I ETS'd. You could do some great work there in real estate for yourself and family on top of the great work you're doing for us while serving in the military. Can't thank you enough for that.
- Investor · Howell, MI · Member since 2011 · 202 posts · 52 votes13y
Hi @Peter WIlder welcome to BP!
I have found you can make money in real estate in any market, so long as you've chosen the right business model for that market. Another thing I've learned is I don't know half of what I think I know. I'm always learning in this business which makes it fun.
If fix & flip is your game, get in an run with it. If buy & hold, wait til you're where you plan to live for a while and win through perseverance.
Have fun, enjoy the ride and best of success to you!
- 13ySeth WilliamsPro MemberSpecialist · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 582 posts · 353 votes
Lol @Aaron Yates & @Ali Boone
- Investor · Macomb, MI · Member since 2013 · 654 posts · 115 votes13y
Originally posted by Seth Williams:
LOL... hey, nothing wrong with a little friendly disagreement... ha ha ha.. We are still BP buddies...
I love The Fresh Prince.. that show was and still is awesome. Well for me since I grew up in that ERA..
- Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes13y
Sorry @Joe Delia, I don't remember seeing anything I disappeared on. If someone was trying to counter anything I said, I would have responded. Sorry I must have missed it. And Michigan is tenant-friendly, which is fine, a lot of states are and it's not a deal-breaker, it just needs to be known and handled. And I wouldn't have called Detroit a meth city because that would have been way too big of a generalization, but I'm sure I probably did mention the multiple investors I know who ended up with meth lab properties and ended up with huge losses because of them. But that can happen in any city.
I don't care who invests or doesn't in any one city. I may invest there or I may not, to each their own. I only mention experiences or stories I know of in relation to a particular investment opportunity. It doesn't mean they are the only stories or the only occurrences or that I'm the only one who knows what I'm talking about. No way am I the only person who knows anything. I always appreciate hearing alternate perspectives from anyone willing to give them, and once I hear them I'll weigh my thoughts!
Calm down.
- Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes13y
Originally posted by Ali Boone:
Sorry @Joe Delia, I don't remember seeing anything I disappeared on. If someone was trying to counter anything I said, I would have responded. Sorry I must have missed it. And Michigan is tenant-friendly, which is fine, a lot of states are and it's not a deal-breaker, it just needs to be known and handled. And I wouldn't have called Detroit a meth city because that would have been way too big of a generalization, but I'm sure I probably did mention the multiple investors I know who ended up with meth lab properties and ended up with huge losses because of them. But that can happen in any city.
I don't care who invests or doesn't in any one city. I may invest there or I may not, to each their own. I only mention experiences or stories I know of in relation to a particular investment opportunity. It doesn't mean they are the only stories or the only occurrences or that I'm the only one who knows what I'm talking about. No way am I the only person who knows anything. I always appreciate hearing alternate perspectives from anyone willing to give them, and once I hear them I'll weigh my thoughts!
Calm down.
Try to talk around it all you want, the fact remains, not one person from michigan has ever heard of meth in detroit. Ironically enough, an investor from cali knows "multiple investors" that do. DEA has one listed meth house back in '09.
So the DEA, active everyday investors, agents, people who've lived here their whole lives, haven't heard of it, but you have multiple people who've had poor experiences with it in the city. Yea right....
In addition, you then say michigan is tenant friendly, which is disputed by the same people above, yet you stick to it. Tenant friendly compared to what? Nevada ? Michigan is middle of the road at worst.
Couple that with your needing to chime into every detroit post there is like clockwork, it's obvious you're pushing some type of agenda. I personally find it transparent and pathetic.
- Real Estate Agent · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 550 votes13y
This has been fun to read guys and gals! Thanks for the entertainment thus far. To Ali's credit, the City of Detroit usually lives up to it's reputation, and I've appraised a few meth houses there. Unfortunately, the rest of the entire state gets a bad rap for Detroit's debacle. As for investing, the numbers Aaron shared are quite common for several areas of SE Michigan (without including the D). I don't know much about western Michigan, but have been told by several friends Grand Rapids is a cool place.
- Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 131 posts · 22 votes13y
Gimme a break! Generalizations about somewhere you haven't actually lived in are ill-informed and just add to the over-hyped negative image.
As someone who grew up in Detroit and is intimately familiar with it, I can say this. Are there "Meth houses? Sure. There are probably Meth houses in virtually every major city. Is it pervasive with a Meth houses on every corner? Absolutely not. As someone accurately stated on another post, CRACK is the major drug problem in Detroit, and it's been that way for a long time. For every Meth house you show me I can show you 50 crack houses.
The points made on here are just uninformed. The city of Detroit does not make for a good investment. However, due to continuous "white flight" the suburbs great middle class and upper middle class areas, and the auto industry still does exist. I would say if you disagree, please list specific facts (ie cities, crime rates, vacancies, economic factors, etc). Someone posts that "they know a guy that bought a Meth house". rumour turns to myth, myth turns to fact. People are making money in Detroit, as stated, so it just depends on your knowledge of area and risk tolerance.
If you want to make generalizations, please provide real statistics, not just "it sucks" I'm more than happy to educate.
- Real Estate Agent · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 550 votes13y
@Peter WIlder Can you provide some stats on the Grand Rapids market for the neighborhoods you target? What is pricing like? What are the rents like, and how's the tenant pool? Thanks for your input.
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