Experienced investor from Scottsdale, AZ

Experienced investor from Scottsdale, AZ

Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes

Hello All,

I have been an apartment investor for many years.  I have made millions and lost millions and made them again.  It is a tough business if you want to take it personally.  :)

I had built up to over 900 units at one point.  About half of those were mine and the other half were with investor money.  I lost the majority of them during the economic crash.  All of my own units were foreclosed on.  I lost one building with investors after a long hard battle. but the remainder of the investor units were able to be salvaged and were actually given decent returns in the end.

I had 500 units of my own that I had refinanced with decent rates at the time. They were leveraged at about 80% LTV which proved to be too high when the downturn happened.

We were hit hard here in AZ.  My rent collections dropped by more than 40% in a short period of time.  Apartment vacancies were much higher than reported at the time.  We went from about 6% vacant to about 25%.  On top of that, many others just were not paying.  The 40% drop was very real across all three of my properties.  I probably could have saved 125 units or so if I would have initially focused on just one property.  I burned through all my reserves real fast and went into a deep vortex.

Anyway, properties got real cheap around here.  I was able to convince a few investors that we needed to buy up some of these zero cap rate deals based on the price per unit.  I was able to buy up about 100 units. 

Prices and rents have not only rebounded but have surpassed the earlier heights in the market.  I have been selling off units recently and have dropped from 170 down to about 75. 

I recently purchased a retail strip mall in one of the very prime locations of our city.  It is difficult to buy multi-family at the prices being asked of them these days.  I can't even find fixers at a decent price.

Anyway, that is my introduction.  It is good to see so many knowledgeable people around a forum.

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
11y

Steve,

Great to see you here!

Folks - Anyone looking for someone with real, in-the-trenches apartment, commercial and syndication experience, look no further.

Steve was one of the first people I ever talked to in this business and he was kind enough to take me to dinner and give me some great advice back before I ever bought my first property.  He's the real deal...

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  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 922 posts · 336 votes
    11y

    That's 1 heck of a story Steve

    I have a question

    Are jobs the primary factor in keeping your units functioning?  

    Only reason I ask is i have a former Broker in the California area and jobs had nothing to do with his homes.   He went section 8 on all of his properties.   Not commercial, residential.   

  • Insurance Agent · AZ · Member since 2013 · 306 posts · 161 votes
    11y

    Great story and introduction, Steve! One of my close friends is a realtor in AZ; actually, I have two friends who are realtors in AZ. I lived in Scottsdale for many years, as well Chandler/Gilbert too, and am well aware of the landscape in the North, East & West Valley's.

    I'm going to send you a PM.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y

    Welcome to BP community @Steve Olafson  It is a great place to meet new friends and learn about various aspects of real estate and more. 

    Wishing you the best! 

  • Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Gerald Harris:

    Are jobs the primary factor in keeping your units functioning?  

    Only reason I ask is i have a former Broker in the California area and jobs had nothing to do with his homes.   He went section 8 on all of his properties.   Not commercial, residential.   

     Yes, jobs are important.  I will NOT do section 8 for other reasons.  I have had many section 8 tenants in the past and had a much higher rate of evictions and many other problems as well.  I know this program works for some people but not for me.  :)

  • Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Welcome to Biggerpockets!

    That is an amazing story! I look forward to learning from your story and seeing you around!

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    11y

    Steve,

    Great to see you here!

    Folks - Anyone looking for someone with real, in-the-trenches apartment, commercial and syndication experience, look no further.

    Steve was one of the first people I ever talked to in this business and he was kind enough to take me to dinner and give me some great advice back before I ever bought my first property.  He's the real deal...

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    @Steve Olafson 

    welcome to the site.

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Hey @Steve Olafson you'd be a good one to ask: do you think there is a bubble growing or have we learned our lesson and all is well for those with leverage and a little cash flow?

  • Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jeff S.:

    Hey @Steve Olafson you'd be a good one to ask: do you think there is a bubble growing or have we learned our lesson and all is well for those with leverage and a little cash flow?

    For starters, there does seem to be an irrational exuberance in the apartment market in Phoenix.  I don't know about other locations.

    In my opinion, our economy is just gaining a foothold.  I think as long as local fundamentals are reasonable, then things should be fine with the investments.

    In any case it is better to buy stronger locations and/or desirable properties.  They seem to hold up better during downturns.

    Just for the record.  I had a LOT of cashflow and still got hit. 

  • Hilary C.Pro Member
    Sr. Director of Customer Service · Evergreen, CO · Member since 2014 · 79 posts · 63 votes
    11y

    Hello Steve!

    Welcome to BiggerPockets! We are so happy and excited to have you join the growing team!

    Your real estate background is very interesting, and can't wait for you to explore all the opportunities BiggerPockets will have for you!

    If you have any questions, or need help with the site, please feel free to reach out.

    Best,

    Hilary

    BiggerPockets
  • Specialist · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 626 posts · 700 votes
    11y

    @Steve Olafson  I am in the Phoenix market as well and would agree there is a high demand for apartments from the investors we work with, both for buy and hold, and for value add fix and flips.  I get trend opinions from both sides of the fence in the network of players I associate with, but most tend to agree that there is an upside to the Phoenix market still.

    Shine on,

    Jack

  • Brandon TurnerPro Member
    Investor · Maui, HI · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Hey @Steve Olafson thanks for introducing yourself! It's great to have experienced folks join the site! We always are looking for more help answering questions here in the forums, so anytime you can jump in and offer advice, we'd love it!

    Oh - and if you haven't yet- be sure to setup some "Keyword Alerts."

    Seeya around the site!

  • Rental Property Investor · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2013 · 368 posts · 191 votes
    11y

    @Steve Olafson Welcome to the site its good to hear the realities of real estate many people always discuss how great things are and fail to mention some of the struggles you will have to face with market. I would love to hear more about how you were able to rebound and how you were able to still keep your investors in your network.

    Welcome again

  • Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Marcus Maloney:

     I would love to hear more about how you were able to rebound and how you were able to still keep your investors in your network.

     Even though the tough times, most of the investors saw the efforts that I was still putting into the properties.  Not very many of them were able to put more money in while times were tough.  But the few that did were rewarded handsomely.

  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    @Steve Olafson  good to see you here. Your name seems familiar, were you mentioned in a book on multi-family real estate investing? (I have read many)

  • Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Gayden:

    @Steve Olafson  good to see you here. Your name seems familiar, were you mentioned in a book on multi-family real estate investing? (I have read many)

    Hey Anthony,

    I see you are from Tucson.  How is the market doing down there?  I am assuming that values are going crazy like Phoenix.

    I have been on a couple of other forums in the past if you have ever visited other sites.  It is possible that my name was mentioned in Vollucci's book "How to Buy and Sell Apartment Buildings".  I went in on a couple of deals with him and then went out on my own.  My business exploded for a while and he referred to me as his star pupil.  At one time I think he asked me if he could use my name in a publication.

  • Real Estate Investor · Vail, AZ · Member since 2013 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    11y
    Welcome to BiggerPockets Steve. I'm looking forward to gleaning some insight from you!
  • Real Estate Investor · Glendale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    Welcome Steve! That is one tremendous story.  Way to bounce back!

    I set a personal goal to own a portfolio of 1,000 properties/units.  I'm inspired to hear you've already conquered it and that its possible. 

    After hearing your story though, I can't help but to feel like I may want to control a smaller portfolio so I can manage the ups and downs and avoid that deep vortex.

    Looking forward to following you here on BP and gaining some insight!

  • Contractor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2010 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Welcome to BP Steve. I'm glad to see another local here! I look forward to all of your input!

  • Laguna Hills, CA · Member since 2014 · 146 posts · 31 votes
    11y
    Welcome to the site Steve Olafson that is one heck of an intro story.
  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2014 · 332 posts · 288 votes
    11y

    Welcome !

    @Steve Olafson 

    Just to reiterate what @J Scott said, Steve is the real deal when it comes to apartments.  This guy knows his stuff.  Listen up!

  • Developer · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2014 · 25 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    @Steve Olafson what do you think about single-tenant NNN properties as a way to diversify into a more secure asset class so that the economic cycles are not as harsh? Seems like a lot of apartment investors have been repositioning their equity into less management intensive assets with predictable cash flows.

  • Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Nico Fricchione:

    @Steve Olafson what do you think about single-tenant NNN properties as a way to diversify into a more secure asset class so that the economic cycles are not as harsh? Seems like a lot of apartment investors have been repositioning their equity into less management intensive assets with predictable cash flows.

    I see this as an end-game or holding pattern.  I prefer strip retail centers to single tenant.  I have a friend that owns a few single tenant buildings in his retirement and is quite happy.

    It is possible for the single tenant building to become vacant.  If this happens you could be in a bad spot.

    Apartment cycles are not usually that harsh.  Clearly some locations get hit harder than others.  They are not more risky than the other asset classes. 

    I see the intensity of the management as a way to beat the game that others are playing.  There is a lot of "less than good" management going on in the apartment market.  Buying those and making them better is a great way to make money.  You are correct that when you grow weary of doing this, there are other options.

  • Developer · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2014 · 25 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    @Steve Olafson  Yes the single-tenant properties are definitely a vehicle for capital preservation- just a nice pace to park some money for the long-term. Depending on the caliber of the tenant occupying your property i.e. investment grade tenants, the ability to reposition those assets for a new tenant can be strong. Investment grade tenants like walgreens, starbucks, chipotle etc. do a lot of analysis before opening a new site location.

    I can certainly see the potential in your value add model for the apartment market- have you looked for any property in Tempe area? I have lived in Tempe for 7yrs now and it has been fun to watch the growth these past 2yrs.

  • Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2014 · 659 posts · 536 votes
    11y

    @Nico Fricchione 

    I have not looked a lot at Tempe.  I have stayed focused on a section of midtown that has served me well.  Tempe is a great location though.  They are doing things right down there.  The nice development around Mill and Tempe Town Lake is amazing.

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