Frame vs. Block in Florida
What is your criteria for buying homes with a wood frame build in Florida? I know a lot of investors who say to steer clear and to only really look at block properties (primarily because of termites), but I've seen a few good deals on homes with wood frames so I wanted to dig into that a bit more. Would/have you ever purchase(d) a home like that? If so, under what conditions?
Thanks!
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I have two properties in south Florida that are frame. I was afraid of them too when I first started but it hasn't been a terrible experience for me, granted I have owned first one less than 2 years. You will want to factor in additional costs for pest control. You will also want to make sure you are inspecting the property at least once a year to make sure there are not any termites. The good thing about frame homes is you have a lot more freedom to move walls. @Charles Soper is right that some houses stand the test of time. My houses were built in the 20s and 50s and are still standing just fine. @Brandon Reed it is true that insurance is higher but not by a very significant amount. As long as you know the risks and factor them into your analysis you should be fine, and you also may not have as much competition because as @Brian Garrett stated, there are a lot of investors who avoid these types of properties. Of course anything with investing comes down to your level risk tolerance.
I'm one of those investors who steers clear. Part of my criteria is CBS only no wood-frame properties.
@Brian Garrett - Exclusively because of termites? Or are there other things you are concerned about with wood-frame properties?
Hurricanes and termites, do you really need another reason? Even most apartment buildings and new construction homes now are built with the 1st level as block. Some REALLY OLD wood frame homes stand the test of time but they are rare to find anymore.
That as well as other things such as overall safety (there are hurricanes here) and cost of insurance is higher than CBS.
Interesting. Didn't actually know about cost of insurance going up with wood-frame. Good to know! Thanks for your input @Brian Garrett. Much appreciated!
I have two properties in south Florida that are frame. I was afraid of them too when I first started but it hasn't been a terrible experience for me, granted I have owned first one less than 2 years. You will want to factor in additional costs for pest control. You will also want to make sure you are inspecting the property at least once a year to make sure there are not any termites. The good thing about frame homes is you have a lot more freedom to move walls. @Charles Soper is right that some houses stand the test of time. My houses were built in the 20s and 50s and are still standing just fine. @Brandon Reed it is true that insurance is higher but not by a very significant amount. As long as you know the risks and factor them into your analysis you should be fine, and you also may not have as much competition because as @Brian Garrett stated, there are a lot of investors who avoid these types of properties. Of course anything with investing comes down to your level risk tolerance.
@Brandon Reed as @Allyssa McCleery and some others said the insurance is something to pay mind too. There are several factors that go into how much insurance will cost on a frame house so get a quote from an agent with the best possible information you can provide.
Personally, if the numbers makes sense even with the increased insurance I would not be opposed to owning wood frame. Thus far I only have CBS, but that wasn't from ruling out frame.
Really helpful insight, thanks @Allyssa McCleery! Good point about having potential for less competition as many people stay away from frame. I figured I'd have to account for pest control, so that's good confirmation as well. Thanks Allyssa!
@Brandon Reed I also prefer CBS construction primarily because it gives me peace of mind when it's hurricane season. Completely upto you! You have higher chances of finding deals with frame.
I work in pest control and block houses are just as likely to get termites but wood frame houses just have a lot more wood to eat.
It doesnt cost much to have a house treated for termites. If you get it treated by a reputable company and you do end up having a termite issue the bond will cover the damages. I wouldnt cheap out on termite protection the couple hundred dollars arent worth the level of service you sacrifice.
Hurricanes and insurance are legitimate concerns. If i was planning to be a single family buy and hold investor i would take advantage of the discounted single family wood homes as rents dont drop just because they are wood in my area.
Hurricanes and termites are the main concerns that are minimized with CBS. Lower insurance is a bonus.
I have 3 wood frame SFHs. One of them might have an issue with the windows. I am going to have them inspected to see if they can be reinforced. If not, I'm going to need new windows! OUCH.
Any wood frame house is going to have some WDO damage, the questions is, to what extent. I don't think I'd rule out wood frame but I would definitely proceed with caution. At the end of the day, I prefer CBS.
Hey @Francene Iaizzo - Thanks for your perspective. What does WDO stand for?
Block constructed houses also take less to cool/heat and the insurance savings is significant. In addition to the pest issues with wood, the wood fungus problem in Florida is common. The fungus actually digests wet wood so the "cure" is costly. My clients tend to stick with block construction; I did have one investor actually apply stucco over a wood frame/sided home as he planned on the property being a long-time holding and wanted to minimize wood issues (it was very expensive...not sure it's feasible).
Depends on your exit strategy. Personally, I wouldn't hold a frame home due to hurricanes and insurance, unless I can buy for a very low price with a solid return. For bugs and pests, they can infest every property and if your structure is diminished and cost of restoration is blasting the rehab budget, then that's a no brainer. However, if you are flipping frame houses, then I wouldn't count out frame/wood construction. Far too many times I see people count out frame builds entirely (and I can see why) but end buyers are still buying frames at a solid ARV in my farmland. You really have to look at your structure of your project and if your bones are still solid, you may think twice.
Thanks @Trevor Camanse. That's good perspective and an interesting thought to dig into if my area is still purchasing frame builds for solid ARV's. I'll make sure to do that! 👍
I see many concrete block homes expensive homes that have 3 sides block and 1 side frame, so look for that. Areas such as bay window bumpouts are usually frame too. Brick homes are usually frame, with a brick veneer in front.
I see stucco over frame that goes all the way down to the ground, instead of stopping it 6" above grade. That's asking for termites or carpenter ants. Also, many block homes have frame columns at the entry, covered with brick, stone or stucco. So, if you only want block, be sure that it is ALL block, not mostly block.
Depends on when it was framed? Early 80's -mid 90's homes were slapped together, most were not sealed on the exterior very well. These tend to have plenty of moisture (wood rot) issues which tend to bring along with it, the termites. I've worked on homes in St. Pete that were built in the 1920's, still have the original wood structure and rock solid. Now I was also told by an exterminator, that any home built in the before mid 70's, probably had yearly treatments with a chemical that was so potent, its probably still active in those homes. Its no longer allowed to be used, but he informed me that stuff was more effective. I would also consider if it is a short term hold or long term. I guess it comes down to making your numbers work, as long as it does (extra Insurance cost, tenting, possible structure repair) then it shouldn't matter. Just my nickel's worth of knowledge!
Brian Beatty
Thanks, @Brian D. Beatty. That stuff they used in the 70's sounds dangerous! 😆 haha
But that's good info to have that some earlier homes can be sturdier than those made in the last few decades 👍. Thanks for your insight!
We have renovated several homes that we wood frame. In my opinion, they have been building homes out of wood for centuries. I personally prefer CBS construction, but for investment purposes aren't scared away by a wood home. I have replaced t111 on the outside etc, repainted homes and the exterior was good as new. I live in Brevard County, FL, so when people use hurricanes as an answer, I don't tend to fully subscribe. Yes, obviously CBS is stronger and I would rather be in one in a hurricane, but after a hurricane, it's not like all of the wood frame homes are gone.... If it hits like that, it would damage CBS homes as well (roofs would be first thing to go on either). Besides, that's why you have insurance! Just my opinion.
Some great points, @Dwayne Byrd. Thanks for your insight. I'm curious to know...have you ever renovated a home with wood frame, then been burned by finding out later on that it got infested by termites and/or wood rot and needed another remodel?
@Nick Harvey Do you have any suggestions for vetting a pest control company?
The best thing to do is get quotes from 3-4 companies and compare service vs service because a lot of companies will have a cheaper price but you are comparing apples to oranges. Also similar to contractors if they dont get back to you in an appropriate amount of time you are probably not going to be happy with the service. If you have a specific question feel free to message me.
Also check online reviews and class action lawsuits. You will be alarmed at some of the things you will read.
@Amber Stout This is a phenomenal thread with great insight from the folks above.