Bitcoin I know it's not real estate but we must discuss

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Bitcoin I know it's not real estate but we must discuss

Dustin Mathenia
Flipper/Rehabber · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 157 votes

I don't know everything about bitcoin or crypto currencies but I have been keeping an eye on it over that last few years. I was first informed about bitcoin in 2013 when it hit 1000$ a coin I did a lot of studying figured it was at its peak I even bought a different crypto currency actually a couple.  I bought one called dogecoin think I paid 43$ for a million of them still have them on my old hard drive according to eBay prices worth about 87$ for 10k coins. I think of these other coins as penny stocks and as I am a gambler I bought them as a gamble and if I sold today would be what.....a 2000% return not bad lol when bitcoin hit 2k this year I started watching again. I even told my friend in September that it would hit 12k if it followed the same path it's been on and then it hit 12k 14k 15k and went from 15k to 17k today idk what's going on if you guys do let me know still not sure I would buy it but I do believe it could go to any price 100k? a million? idk maybe but it can't climb this fast without crashing again before getting there. What are your thoughts ?

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Matt R.
Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y

It is a fad, scam, see it is crashing. 

9 years later wall street wants in and several bitcoin atms nearby. At some point a person may want to find out what is going on or not and that's cool too. This is mostly a Japan lead currency today if that helps. 

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  • Joshua Pagan
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 29 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    I think the potential lies within the block-chain technology and not really the coin itself. Sure, Bitcoin, has the sexy-sweet name and it was the first of its kind...but it has flaws. It has high transaction costs (for crypto that is). The block-chain is tangible in that it is a random generation of numbers and that generation of numbers is unique to the coin that people hold...that gives crypto a very bright future. The reason why crypto-currency is such a hit right now is because of the possibilities it hold for the future of the world. Never before has there been a global currency and that solves so many problems. I really do not want to get into the specifics but just think about it:

    There is no longer a currency exchange.

    People can exchange with each other, where ever, whenever, and it is instant.

    NO REGULATION

    There is a very large community that believes in these principles on Reddit and it is growing by the day. I highly recommend checking out what they have going on over there... and to answer your question about today. I was watching CNBC today as the run began; before the trading platform crashed. All they were talking about for 2+ hours was Bitcoin and sure enough it ran. That and somebody moved about 14,400 BTC which will always cause market fluctuation. 

    1Reply
  • Joseph ODonovanPro Member
    Property Manager · Ridley, PA · Member since 2017 · 427 posts · 449 votes
    8y
    Good topic here. I was introduced to bitcoin about 5 years ago. I must admit I have tried to understand the concept of crypto-currency and I'm embarrassed to say, I just don't understand it. Therefore, I refused to invest in it. Shame on me. I still have doubts about it's future, specifically cyberfraud (see Mt. Gox) and governments banning it. But it is certainly interesting to watch the bitcoin game from the sidelines here.
    3Reply
  • Dustin Mathenia
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 157 votes
    8y

    I'm in the process of re educating myself on this stuff and what' going on now still have much more to learn and I know all about mt gox I had a little in there when it shut down but I was always paranoid about keeping my coins on the internet I always had my own wallet for each kind of coin on my desktop my friend had all his coins in a website wallet and they shut down now he has nothing wouldn' have been worth much but still don't trust any websites. 

    0Reply
  • Avigdor Kahan
    Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2017 · 31 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    would u invest a million for like a month ?
    0Reply
  • Dustin Mathenia
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 157 votes
    8y

    @avigdor Kahan

    A million is a lot to the at a market that makes 20% + swings daily and I guess it would depend on how much money I had I do plan on throwing some money at it but a small amount 

    0Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Dustin Mathenia:

    I don't know everything about bitcoin or crypto currencies but I have been keeping an eye on it over that last few years. I was first informed about bitcoin in 2013 when it hit 1000$ a coin I did a lot of studying figured it was at its peak I even bought a different crypto currency actually a couple.  I bought one called dogecoin think I paid 43$ for a million of them still have them on my old hard drive according to eBay prices worth about 87$ for 10k coins. I think of these other coins as penny stocks and as I am a gambler I bought them as a gamble and if I sold today would be what.....a 2000% return not bad lol when bitcoin hit 2k this year I started watching again. I even told my friend in September that it would hit 12k if it followed the same path it's been on and then it hit 12k 14k 15k and went from 15k to 17k today idk what's going on if you guys do let me know still not sure I would buy it but I do believe it could go to any price 100k? a million? idk maybe but it can't climb this fast without crashing again before getting there. What are your thoughts ?

     If we are to believe the experts, this is the birth of a new type of tech and type of tech currency. It is a strange bird but if fully realized the value reportedly would be north of 100k per coin one day. There are a lot of scams using the name so you have to research beforehand like anything else. Some say it is gambling, others have a much different take on what this means for the future of money. 

    Good luck! 

    0Reply
  • Tom Conant
    Providence, RI · Member since 2017 · 62 posts · 17 votes
    8y
    Newsflash. 3/4 of the entire thing is organized crime and illegal money. When governments try to regulate and some succeed and others don’t then the value will crash. A govt looses a TON of power when they cannot manipulate their monetary policy and honestly they simply won’t allow their to be an international currency. Look what it did to Europe. Only a matter of time. The bigger the coins get the harder they’ll fall I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️ where can I short bitcoin?
    3Reply
  • Egan Lohman
    Bozeman, MT · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 25 votes
    8y

    I don't have much to say about bitcoin, or any crypto-currency for that matter.  However the blockchain, which is the underlying technology, looks poised to revolutionize every type of transaction we make.   It's a mechanism which guarantees immutable transaction history for virtually anything of value.  It doesn't just apply to digital records, it can be used to verify and trace the ownership of physical property as well.  For us real estate investors, I believe the blockchain will fundamentally change how deeds, titles, contracts and even physical property are exchanged.  I missed the first boat on crypto currency, and I'm fine with that.  But I'm keeping a close eye out for the company that starts using the blockchain to track real estate transactions.

    2Reply
  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    8y
    Tom Conant I agree 100%. People can brag about how much money they are making now (if they cash in) but if anyone thinks that governments (and banks) will lose control of the financial market / monetary system and not regulate this if it were to become mainstream then they have not studied economics (which I have not but it doesn’t take rocket scientist to know that governments and banks control the world
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  • Dustin Mathenia
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 157 votes
    8y

    @tom canant 

    I think you're right that the government will never allow a universal currency but the idea of it is cool to think about and I think 80% of it is propped up by investors buying just because they think it will go up in value and I know it will crash but when and why I don't know and it's crashed plenty of times before and it keeps coming back ! Also I heard you can bet against it now but I'm not sure how to do it 

    1Reply
  • Ryan Garoogian
    Investor · Tulare, CA · Member since 2014 · 34 posts · 23 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Dustin Mathenia:

    @tom canant 

    I think you're right that the government will never allow a universal currency but the idea of it is cool to think about and I think 80% of it is propped up by investors buying just because they think it will go up in value and I know it will crash but when and why I don't know and it's crashed plenty of times before and it keeps coming back ! Also I heard you can bet against it now but I'm not sure how to do it 

    This is probably what you were thinking of when you say the possibility of betting against it. http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/bitcoin-futures.html

    0Reply
  • Dustin Mathenia
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Dallas, TX · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 157 votes
    8y

    @Egan Lohman 

    Yes it will be interesting to see whay happens with this technology it's not really new but bitcoin has opened the eyes of everyone be interesting to see how real estate incorporates it 

    0Reply
  • Tom Conant
    Providence, RI · Member since 2017 · 62 posts · 17 votes
    8y
    Yeah Chris Seveney and David. I totally agree. I also don’t really understand the intrinsic value of said bit coins. What I mean is, I thought that the value of a bitcoin was directly related to the number of bitcoins in the market; like demand was irrelevant to the value of the coin. That was because these coins are mined through computer algorithms that ‘find’ coins. The more coins, the more cash on the table. Idk. I can’t explain it on here I guess. Think of it this way. What happens to inflation when there is no fluctuation in the value of a singular fiat currency? It stagnates doesn’t go up doesn’t go down. What happens to everyone’s ‘investments’ when the market no longer grows or shrinks. I am no economics professor (I studied macro, micro, intermediate macro and international all undergrad so nothing special here) but the smartest people in the financial world (including banks - corps are people too lol) only LOSE money when the money isn’t moving. Idk, I just don’t think the banks or the governments will let it happen. Don’t even get me started on how I actually think the whole bitcoin thing could give Donnie and the rest of the Capital Hill cronies the perfect opportunity to shatter the stock market that’s held up on glass stilts. The only asset class will left will be REAL estate. Everything else was propped up by the bailouts in 2008. I’ll be waiting in my arch I’ve been tirelessly building since this bitcoin nonsense broke on CNN or whatever. Should have bought the damn thing at $650.00 😂😂 I’ve lost it, Tom
    1Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Tom Conant:

    Yeah Chris Seveney and David. I totally agree. I also don’t really understand the intrinsic value of said bit coins. What I mean is, I thought that the value of a bitcoin was directly related to the number of bitcoins in the market; like demand was irrelevant to the value of the coin. That was because these coins are mined through computer algorithms that ‘find’ coins. The more coins, the more cash on the table. Idk. I can’t explain it on here I guess. Think of it this way. What happens to inflation when there is no fluctuation in the value of a singular fiat currency? It stagnates doesn’t go up doesn’t go down. What happens to everyone’s ‘investments’ when the market no longer grows or shrinks.

    I am no economics professor (I studied macro, micro, intermediate macro and international all undergrad so nothing special here) but the smartest people in the financial world (including banks - corps are people too lol) only LOSE money when the money isn’t moving. Idk, I just don’t think the banks or the governments will let it happen.

    Don’t even get me started on how I actually think the whole bitcoin thing could give Donnie and the rest of the Capital Hill cronies the perfect opportunity to shatter the stock market that’s held up on glass stilts. The only asset class will left will be REAL estate. Everything else was propped up by the bailouts in 2008.

    I’ll be waiting in my arch I’ve been tirelessly building since this bitcoin nonsense broke on CNN or whatever. Should have bought the damn thing at $650.00 😂😂

    I’ve lost it,

    Tom

    The analogy I heard was like how http:// became the new protocol for how information is partially stored and transferred, bitcoin/crypto and blockchain will be the new protocol for how money is partially stored and transferred. Governments still have all the power left to tax it.  I don't think many criminals like it anymore since FBI shut down silkroad. It appears it is sort of a public ledger for bitcoin transactions now. I think criminals like the hardest to trace cashola still. 

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  • Tom Conant
    Providence, RI · Member since 2017 · 62 posts · 17 votes
    8y
    Matt R. Thanks for the awesome feedback. See I think that then the only real value lies within the transferable fiat money right? Unless the relation to other currencies gets so large that it becomes the value of the coins themselves. And totally didn’t know about the govt thing with the criminals. Idk tho, they’ll be coming after out cash pretty soon. Didn’t they just shut down the 500 dollar bill somewhere? Tom
    0Reply
  • Brent Coombs
    Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Tom Conant, you asked: "What happens to everyone’s ‘investments’ when the market no longer grows or shrinks"?

    I'll ask it this way: What will happen to the price of gold (for example), once there there is no more of it to be mined? I'll let you and/or others ponder on that, if you'd like to respond. 

    [Hint: there is a known, set, unalterable number of Bitcoins that will ever exist!] Cheers...

    0Reply
  • Matt R.
    Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Tom Conant:

    Matt R. Thanks for the awesome feedback. See I think that then the only real value lies within the transferable fiat money right? Unless the relation to other currencies gets so large that it becomes the value of the coins themselves.

    And totally didn’t know about the govt thing with the criminals. Idk tho, they’ll be coming after out cash pretty soon. Didn’t they just shut down the 500 dollar bill somewhere?

    Tom

     Not sure, I think the value is in the tech/storage mostly and the transfering/exchange is just part of that. The value may also be subjective which is partially how most old school currency values are? If enough users are convinced one coin is worth 100k in dollars, that is what it is worth that day I guess. One thing I think I understand is bitcoin is like the reserve currency for all the other 1000+ coins. 

    0Reply
  • Roger S.
    Investor · TX · Member since 2015 · 393 posts · 290 votes
    8y

    I've got some Bitcoin, some Ether and some Litecoin.   I think it's the future, and we're seeing a chance to get in very early, like Amazon for 10 bucks, but with even more upside.   I've seen estimates that Bitcoin presently handles less than 1/100th of 1% of the worlds financial transactions, and if all it ever got was 1% that would put it over a million per coin.  I've also seen some estimates saying 2.5 million is very possible.   With numbers like that, I have no problem putting in a tiny part of my net worth.

    3Reply
  • Ron Flatt
    Investor · Hillsboro, TX · Member since 2017 · 358 posts · 245 votes
    8y

    OK folks, the old man will put in his two cents worth.

    I maybe a little old fashioned, but I remember the Lapaca  craze, which did not really go over big, but some folks got burned, however I remember the EMU craze.  Seemed like everytime I turned around someone was wanting me to invest in the emu industry.  

    I had friends who spent large amounts of money, and the more they went up the more money they tried to pour into them.  then suddenly it stopped, and the market was not there.  I was given several emu that I slaughtered and made jerky out of for friends and family.  

    I do not have a problem with folks speculating in Bitcoin, but I would not want my future tied up in it.  When I go to Vegas, I take the amount I am willing to leave there.  Sometimes I come back with more, sometimes I had a good time and realize I left them a chunk that I brought, but I never take more than I am willing to leave.  

    I recommend treating Bitcoin the same.  I play options in the markets, it is about the same, I do not put up more than I am willing to lose.  I could be wrong and Bitcoin could hit the moon, but it could also be an piece of space debris that burns up in the atmosphere.  Be Cautious folks.  

    Anything that heats up like the Bitcoin has to make a correction, when and where that correction is made can be devastating.

    3Reply
  • Chris Yorke
    Sydney, NSW · Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    Just as long as you understand the difference between investment and speculation, treat it as a gamble. Bitcoin is all speculation. A Ponzi or pyramid phenomenon . Yes, profits have been made, but it is definitely no investment.  Nobody knows how to value Bitcoin, and I think it is still in   early stages of irrational exuberance so would not be surprised if it reached much higher levels. Do not forget Bitcoin is unregulated. I am unaware any exchange has yet been subject to court action over malpractice or losses. Are you? 

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Brent Coombs There are huge differences in gold and bitcoins.  I personally think biggerpockets should focus on real estate but I am often the first to trail blaze a new tangential path so here goes...

    Prices in a free market are set by supply and demand.  You have to consider both to have any idea what the price will be in the future.

    Gold is a naturally limited resource.  It is made by stars and the vast majority of it on Earth is in the molten core of the planet and will not be able to be recovered.  There are many non-speculative uses of gold.  They basically range from jewelry to industrial uses.  About 15% of gold production every year goes to industrial uses.  The amount of gold that is recycled is fairly low.  That means we are basically using up the limited supply.

    Bitcoins are an artificially limited resource.  When they were designed, a built in system was put in place to cause new bitcoins to be released by "mining" at lower and lower rates.  The total amount of bitcoin ever released will be about 21,000,000.  Most experts have stated bitcoin has two main purposes.  First... as cryptocurrency meant to used in the laundering of money.  Second... as a speculation vehicle.  Right now about 12.5 new bit coins are being produced every 10 minutes.  The artificially imposed scarcity could easily cause a bubble.  Major players in the information technology business could easily destabilize the bitcoin market by switching on and off huge networks of mining computers.  I do not want to get completely bogged down in the weeds but the difficulty of the mining is adjusted to control the rate of new bitcoins.   To be exact it is adjusted every 2016 blocks.  By switching on and off a processing power equal <1% of Amazon or Google or the NSA or the Russians or the Chinese or the North Koreans for that matter the market could be sent into chaos.  

    Then there is "bitcoin unlimited"...  a new better bitcoin is being dreamed up.  It is yet to be determined what that will do to the old bitcoin.  It does bring up a question...  what happens in 2040 when there are no new bitcoins to pay the peers to monitor the transactions?

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  • James Canoy
    Kingston, NY · Member since 2017 · 252 posts · 138 votes
    8y
    I second the reddit site but understand that they are very pro bitcoin. Few of them grasp that this is a bubble for bitcoin. I’m not just being a naysayer. Nothing has infinite value or will continually definitely increase in value over time. We’ve seen it in every thing including flowers, real estate, stock, bonds, mutual funds, dot coms, etc. I don’t know what the intrinsic value is but I’m betting that the top is approaching as everyone including the taxi drivers are getting in on it. If I knew where the top was I would short it (also difficult) and ride it down. It’s emulators aren’t doing nearly as well indicating that the ridiculous current price is based on the name. The value is the unregulated nature and blockchain tech.
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  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Bitcoin is like any other market.  It has cycles.

    0Reply
  • Brian Garrett
    Real Estate Investor · Palm Beach County, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    I'm staying on the sidelines mainly because I think there will be a major selloff/correction soon.

    0Reply
  • Jerome K.
    Investor · Ocala, FL · Member since 2016 · 47 posts · 48 votes
    8y

    This might be an over simplification, but I think Bitcoins are this age's "Tulips":

    https://www.investopedia.com/features/crashes/crashes2.asp

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