Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
I'm too old to see a lot of the socialistic changes and bankrupt cities and states that you will. I just ask one question. How do we sustain the direction headed?
CBO (congressional Budget Office) just listed the new figures today. America has deficits Totalling 62% of our GDP (gross domestic product). By 2010 that % will reach 90%. I guess we could just continue spending our way out of the cesspool, or keep using the Tarp money for this small problem....or ask for more "emergency" Tarp money.
I lied. One more question. Is there a fix for this? Rich
I think it is important to fix the public education system but that will not be sufficient to solve our long-term problems. I grew up in a country (India) with great schools and went to one such school myself. But the country was very poor and the economy was largely stagnant in those days. The same country, today, is the second-fastest growing economy in the world and has been that way for over a decade.
The reason for this change was not an improvement in the schools but a change in economic policies. I see the U.S. slowly becoming a non-meritocratic society the way India used to be. This is really unfortunate because the U.S. has been the inspiration for so many countries to reform their economies and now the source of that inspiration is going against its core values.
I think the problem really is with the voters. Voters are happy to vote for a benefit for themselves as long as others pay for it. They are also happy to support non-meritocratic systems, such as public schools, affirmative action, etc. because they do not seem to truly believe in the concept of merit. They are also happy to kick out any politician who speaks the truth and vote for the one who promises stuff that is not sustainable.
What we need is a change in the voting system so that we can have more quality-control. In a corporation, there is one vote per share owned, not one vote per shareholder. Perhaps we need a political system with one vote for each dollar in taxes paid instead of one vote per person. That will align incentives a little better and the person paying the most taxes will get to have greater say in how it is spent.
I wish it would, and I'll keep trying, but personally I don't think voting for folks like Ron Paul is ever going to make a real difference. There just aren't enough viable options for my votes.
Even if we paid off our entire national debt and balanced the budget for now through eternity, there's still the issue that this country is losing its competitive edge (and in some areas has already lost it).
If we placed more of a value on education, and spent a lot more money and effort to improve our educational system, we could improve the other side of the equation -- i.e, we could drastically increase GDP through innovation and technical advancement.
It shouldn't be any surprise that the countries that are on our tails in terms of technical competition and advancement (actually, many are beating our a**es), are the ones that value education, both socially and financially.
Fix that problem, and this nation would have a lot more money to spend...or use to pay down our debt...
Education will fix itself if we fix the economic equation and fix our priorities as a nation. Until you pay scientists and engineers more you won't get more of them and the best and brightest will take jobs as tax lawyers instead.
I'm not saying that tax law is completely worthless, but it is pretty close to being worthless. Why do we pay these types of folks many multiples what we pay engineers and scientists?!
Education will fix itself if we fix the economic equation and fix our priorities as a nation.
I agree it will fix the financial side of education (the incentives)...
But, I think there is a bigger problem in this country, and that's the social perception of education. These days, college education is too often considered worthless (and for many degrees and institutions it probably is), and there is a tremendously anti-intellectual sentiment in this country. Add that to the horrendous performance of our public schools, and kids are basically just wasting time between the ages of 6 and 21...and are happy to do so...
Until society starts to value (and recognize the value of) education again, and until our public schools stop trying to churn out robots with "employee" mentalities, this nation is only going to keep falling further and further behind in many areas where it previously dominated...
The "problem" is that it requires resources to educate kids and it doesn't appear we are prepared to devote the right types of resources to this end. We also have unions that keep people from shopping for adequate education for their kids.
If we simply let people vote with their feet on schools the market would sort things out in a heartbeat. It baffles me that everyone is hell-bent on free-market capitalism with every profession EXCEPT for the ones that are arguably the most important. Why should teachers get a pass on free market competition?
It baffles me that everyone is hell-bent on free-market capitalism with every profession EXCEPT for the ones that are arguably the most important.
It amazes me that people will fight tooth-and-nail against health care reform because it's socialistic and anti-doctor, but completely ignore the fact that our educational system has been exactly that way for 100 years...
If it's not good for health care, it's not good for education either...
That said, in my opinion, everyone deserves at least minimal health care and education...and the more you have of one, the less you probably need of the other... :D
It baffles me that everyone is hell-bent on free-market capitalism with every profession EXCEPT for the ones that are arguably the most important. Why should teachers get a pass on free market competition?
I'm not part of "everyone" on this topic. I got a degree in education with the intention of being a teacher. After not even 1 full year in the system I left, completely disgusted. My kids are going to private schools (just like socialist politicians' kids).
"One more question. Is there a fix for this? Rich"
Yes and what I'm about to say is going to sound cruel and unpopular. We fix it the same way the Michael Jackson estate went from financial ruin to profitable. We wait for the spenders to die off.
This is good. The thread stayed civil while I slept overnight. I really think the easiest way to fix it, is have the country declare Bankruptcy and start fresh. Of course, if we didn't start with fresh leaders and a foundation on original laws and Constitution, we'd be right back in the same boat slowly.
Being a new country with no credit(post bankruptcy) we'd actually have to pay for things as we went along, instead of charging them! What a novel concept. Rich
A big problem with education are the teachers themselves.
A lot of teacher's are sub par educators, however, once they get tenure, the union will basically prevent that they never get fired, no matter how awful they are. Do a simple Google search for "Rubber rooms" if you want a rude awakening.
A large problem is that there is no way to evaluate a teacher's effectiveness. If you want to stir your teacher friends up, ask them how they feel about Obama's education reform package. Basically it tests kids, and if kids do not maintain or improve their test scores over a certain point, the teacher can be fired or the school can get sanctions against it. See what your teacher friends have to say and undoubtedly it will be met with protest. then ask them for a method to determine a teacher's effectiveness and most will have nothing to say.
If education were privatized and school taxes eliminated, teacher's effectiveness could be greatly increased through the use of incentives for education standards to be met. I understand that most people would be against this, but it would definitely be a way to use market forces to ensure an increase in education.
Sean- for fun, find my thread recently on dumb down our kids- The teachers are cheating to pass the stress test. Some are, not a blanket accusation. Rich
to answer the original question, Government is inefficient by nature. To expect anything different would be unrealistic. Since most government officials are not charged with (or incentivized for) being efficient with money they deem it little priority.
As for education, when we have business teachers that have never started a business, math & Science teachers that don't understand much more than the level they teach and PE teachers that are overweight how could things be different.
At the end of the day it is about economics, in order to attract the best in the business, you have to pay the best in business. From my little conversations with private school teachers (Tim you might correct me on this), they are paid less than public school teachers.
How do we change it?
On this I would have to agree with J Scott that we would have to shift our philosophies from employees to entrepreneurs. More success stories have to be shared (many on this site) and people have to understand that there can be substantial reward for substantial work/risk involved in being a business owner.
I think it is important to fix the public education system but that will not be sufficient to solve our long-term problems. I grew up in a country (India) with great schools and went to one such school myself. But the country was very poor and the economy was largely stagnant in those days. The same country, today, is the second-fastest growing economy in the world and has been that way for over a decade.
The reason for this change was not an improvement in the schools but a change in economic policies. I see the U.S. slowly becoming a non-meritocratic society the way India used to be. This is really unfortunate because the U.S. has been the inspiration for so many countries to reform their economies and now the source of that inspiration is going against its core values.
I think the problem really is with the voters. Voters are happy to vote for a benefit for themselves as long as others pay for it. They are also happy to support non-meritocratic systems, such as public schools, affirmative action, etc. because they do not seem to truly believe in the concept of merit. They are also happy to kick out any politician who speaks the truth and vote for the one who promises stuff that is not sustainable.
What we need is a change in the voting system so that we can have more quality-control. In a corporation, there is one vote per share owned, not one vote per shareholder. Perhaps we need a political system with one vote for each dollar in taxes paid instead of one vote per person. That will align incentives a little better and the person paying the most taxes will get to have greater say in how it is spent.
Bryan, social mobility stats is not something I have looked at in the past. The articles on it are quite long. Would you mind summarizing it for us here? Based on my cursory review, it appears as if social mobility is decreasing. That could suggest either decreasing meritocracy or that genetic factors (e.g. IQ) are becoming more important in society.
Perhaps we need a political system with one vote for each dollar in taxes paid instead of one vote per person. That will align incentives a little better and the person paying the most taxes will get to have greater say in how it is spent.
BOORAH Vikram !!! Wouldn't that simple concept change this country for the better in an instant!
Bryan, social mobility stats is not something I have looked at in the past. The articles on it are quite long. Would you mind summarizing it for us here? Based on my cursory review, it appears as if social mobility is decreasing. That could suggest either decreasing meritocracy or that genetic factors (e.g. IQ) are becoming more important in society.
I am running to pick up a new development machine in a few so I can't type long...check out "social mobility" as a search term in Wikipedia. That is a good place to start if this interests you.
Perhaps we need a political system with one vote for each dollar in taxes paid instead of one vote per person. That will align incentives a little better and the person paying the most taxes will get to have greater say in how it is spent.
I don't know.....this is too Animal Farm for me as in "everyone's equal but some are more equal than others".....
Also, people will be smart/devious enough to defer their taxes until each election cycle in order to buy more votes and elect people that will subsidize the means to buy more votes in the next election cycle.
The ability to buy votes hasn't necessarily worked out well for Chicago.
This may rankle a few on BP, but I believe that as a Country's values and morals go, so goes the success of that country. Time was when education, hard work and honesty were highly valued. A man's value was his word, his name and his hand shake.
Our major institutions, such as Government, Education, Religions, special interests groups, etc..., only care about MONEY. Teachers Unions care more about their jobs than they do about the kids. Religions only care about recruiting more members so that those members will contribute more money. Special interests have such a narrow view, they don't care about people who may have an opposing interest.
How do we fix this? We fix OURSELVES first. Do I give more than I take? Is making that extra dollar more important than helping someone less fortunate? Do I keep my word? Do I work hard or do I work hard at not working? Do I hold myself to a higher standard than I hold everyone else?
There are ABSOLUTES in life, they are NOT progressive. Look at the Ten Commandments, not Ten Suggestions.
Originally posted by Vikram C.
Perhaps we need a political system with one vote for each dollar in taxes paid instead of one vote per person. That will align incentives a little better and the person paying the most taxes will get to have greater say in how it is spent.
BOORAH Vikram !!! Wouldn't that simple concept change this country for the better in an instant!
WOW
I was just skimming through the forums today. I am always anxious to get to the ones where Rich is either starting DooDoo or making us think. But, Vikram, you hit it out of the park!!! You got my vote.
Don