Street Smarts Versus Book Smarts

Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes

Too many companies have been very successful after being started by High School drop outs. Others have success by individuals dropping out of college to start their business. Others who have a 4 or 6 year degree end up flipping burgers. Does a degree really matter in the "real world"? What is your outlook on this?

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David Egger

Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2012 · 47 posts · 46 votes

13y

For every high school dropout that 'made it' there are 100 that have a food stamp card. It obviously does happen, but all you hear about is the few times it does, and the multitudes that failed miserably aren't on the news.

If you want to be an entrepreneur, find a top entrepreneurship program. You'll get a solid mix of accounting, finance, marketing along with specialized coursework on making pitches to investors and evaluating opportunities. You'll also have loads more solid connections, potential investors and an alumni network to work from. And if sh** hits the fan with your venture, you've got a solid base of skills plus a degree to fall back on while you put your life back together for a second attempt.

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Phillip Dwyer
Real Estate Agent · Henderson, NV · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 550 votes
13y
Depends upon what you plan to do. If you want to be an MD, you need a degree. If you want to start a business, I'd say experience is more important. There are different types of education, and a degree/college only one of them.
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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
13y
Thoughtful questions today Dale Osborn!

I think it depends on your what you choose to do. Big companies still use a college education as a requirement. I have a friend who is clearly the best candidate for a particular job promotion. Everyone closely involved knows it. However she can't get the job becuase it requires a degree. This is doubly silly because she is in her 50s. What she might have learned 30 years ago in college isn't particularly relevant to her skills and abilities today.

However if you are going to be an entrepreneur, I don't think college is very important. That is not to say that you wouldn't learn valuable knowledge and skills in college. The degree itself would be practically meaningless.
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Dale Osborn
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Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
When you look at McDonalds & Walt Disney and see they were started by High School drop outs it makes you stop to consider some things. On TV you will see ads that with a college degree, you will makes so much more money over the life of your career. I have never heard about Bill Gates or Steve Jobs going back to finish college after starting their businesses. Steve Wozniak did go back to finish and Steve Jobs stated this hurt his drive toward success.
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Ned CareyPro Member
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Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
13y
It's pretty much the point of the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" If you get a college education you spend your life working for "the Man" If you are a entrepreneur you can be much more successful.

I think this misses that different personalities have different goals and definitions of success. There is nothing wrong with taking the more traditional path with more easily predictable, if mediocre, results.
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Mike M.
Longview, TX · Member since 2012 · 368 posts · 131 votes
13y
This question lumps the quality and applicability of all degrees together. In addition to the technical aspects of a degree, many cirriculums force a student to manage time, set priorities, schedule, sacrifice, etc. These qualities are essential to success. Some are born with these skills; many have to build them, and college can be a great place to do so. Plus, I would guess for every successful dropout there are thousands who aren't. My engineering degree, while not teaching me jack about real estate, refined some of the key skill sets that I believe will make me successful in my real estate endeavor. Plus it's not a bad day job.

Mike
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Dale Osborn
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Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
Ned Carey you have just inspired another post for me to add to my other thread "Accident or Choice". Some choose to become an investor and financial freedom. Others choose to go a different route willingly.
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Dale Osborn
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Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
Mike M. what you state here also fits into my other post. You accidentally got into real estate investing, but you have made the choice to have a plan & use skills learned from college to reach your end goal.
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David Egger
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2012 · 47 posts · 46 votes
13y
For every high school dropout that 'made it' there are 100 that have a food stamp card. It obviously does happen, but all you hear about is the few times it does, and the multitudes that failed miserably aren't on the news.

If you want to be an entrepreneur, find a top entrepreneurship program. You'll get a solid mix of accounting, finance, marketing along with specialized coursework on making pitches to investors and evaluating opportunities. You'll also have loads more solid connections, potential investors and an alumni network to work from. And if sh** hits the fan with your venture, you've got a solid base of skills plus a degree to fall back on while you put your life back together for a second attempt.
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John Chapman
Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 718 posts · 913 votes
13y
I consider myself way overeducated, and my personal opinion is that the downside to a degree is not necessarily the time and expense, but really the method of thinking that it imparts. My general impression and experience is that most institutions do not prepare you for the "real world" and do not prepare you to start or run your own business. Instead, they prepare you only to get your first job and impart a general "employee" mentality, a perception that life is really only about a series of escalating job positions and promotions.
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Joel OwensBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
13y
Being an entrepreneur is in my family and in my blood.

Many people in my family are business owners or inventors.

Where some people see SECURITY in a JOB I see restraint and boredom.

I have always been a free thinker with an imagination and passion for creating things and learning to do things better.

My first business was a car audio business at 19 years of age.I would in the years leading up to that pester this other car audio owner multiple times a week.I learned a lot from him just hanging out.He didn't mind as he knew my dad was killed in a car wreck when I was 16.

College is theory and learning from people doing it everyday is real world.

The first 2 years of college is just a rehash of stuff you already know.I made straight A's in high school so I already had the discipline and the smarts.After to going to college for awhile me and my other friends just didn't see spending years there when we could grow our businesses.

I think college degrees are great if you know the demand for the specific job will be out there when you graduate.People that go to college think about getting into it but do not plan for the exit and the debt involved.

College is an investment just like anything else and can be a bad investment if you spend time focused on the wrong majors etc.I do not believe sending kids to college to "figure things out" while they rack up huge student loans that they cannot get rid of through bankruptcy.
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
13y
Take a look at the richest 500 people in the U.S. and see how many have a college degree. Let us know what you find.

Sure, you can be successful without a degree, but statistically, the odds are much, much, much higher if you do have a degree. And, like David said, get a degree from a top business school and your odds increase dramatically.

Remember, just because something is possible doesn't mean it's likely...
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James H.
Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes
13y
Well, I'm both a high school dropout and a college graduate (will have my master's degree at the end of this year). What does that make me, lol?

It's pretty hard to start an civil engineering consulting firm without a degree. You can, but you depend on having someone WILLING to work for you that does so that your company can have the legally required credentials. I bring this up because I like the idea of running my own firm some day, but the idea of running the finances, marketing and business part of it are not nearly appealing to me as just being the one who makes the final engineering decisions. I could be a senior engineer working for someone else making a bunch of money and not have to go all over the place pandering for business, collecting on invoices, fretting about insurance and payroll....

Seriously, if you are self employed, you are more constrained in so many ways than if you have a well defined responsibilty working for someone else. And I know many "employed" people who, at the end of the day, make more than many "self employed" people. It all depends on what you do, how you do it and who you do it with.

While some might consider working for a company as a highly qaulified and trained expert as boring, there are just as many others who would think running a commercial real estate brokerage is boring or many that think the idea of landlording as only onerous. It's all just a matter of opinion.

I do not think getting an education is only to the detriment of becoming highly succesful, either as a business owner or as an employee. FWIW, it is highly desireable for banks to see an MBA on an applicants resume when considering a business loan...I don't think that is because they are hoping to find business failures.
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Justin Hughes
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2012 · 11 posts · 3 votes
13y
We're all biased towards incredible stories.

We end up thinking that "high school drop-out turned millionaire" is much more common than it actually is, because we hear that story much more often than "high school drop-out turned out exactly as expected".

My rule of thumb: get the best education you can, unless a better opportunity presents itself. Even then, never stop learning!
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Steve Babiak
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
13y
Here's a post I made in another thread that reinforces some of what has been stated in this topic:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/53/topics/37797-my-book?page=18#p425330
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Callum K.
Rental Property Investor · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2012 · 291 posts · 102 votes
13y
I am realizing that there is no best logical solution. People succeed; people fail; but those who get up and get back into it are the ones you want to be around. To me, it appears to be the motivation of these individuals that allow them to succeed. Each of you are successful because you are on this site trying to learn from one another. You realize that you do not know everything and that is of the utmost importance. I have a couple of friends who recently graduated from MIT and Harvard and what fascinates me about them (and their classmates) is not their intelligence, but rather their desire to absorb information from people around them. ITS THEIR MOTIVATION THAT MATTERS. If you find something you commit to and you are determined to make it succeed then you will succeed.
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Dale Osborn
OP
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
David Egger It is great to talk about the specialized training and programs, but is there such a thing? I have searched the internet for information on that as well as real estate investing. The only thing you find is the guru courses.
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Dale Osborn
OP
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
John Chapman There are so many teachers that talk about using their class information when the students get out in the real world. I have found that most have been inside of the school environment that they do not have the foggiest idea of what is actually going on in the world outside of their classroom. They have locked themselves in an ivory tower so they feel safe and comfortable.
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Dale Osborn
OP
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
Joel Owens many students who go to college actually are there for the partying and not to actually learn anything they could actually use to get ahead in the world. Then of course the debt is ther to be repaid.
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Dale Osborn
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Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
J Scott there probably are more out there with degrees than without, but the underdog is who everyone wants to cheer for so they make the headlines more often.
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Dale Osborn
OP
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
Brian Hoyt I am in the same boat as you - high school drop out but college degree. For real estate investing you do not need much more math than what you learned in the third grade. The college degree really did not help out that much. Perhaps the business law classes were somewhat pertinent. Took the CLEP tests to eliminate a year of classroom learning. Can't even buy myself a cup of coffee with the degree.
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Dale Osborn
OP
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
Justin Hughes everyone wants to believe in the Cinderella story or the rags to riches story. It is like the light at the end of the tunnel - something to strive for. To be able to rise above your present position and become a huge success.
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Dale Osborn
OP
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
Steve Babiak even those with a college degree can end up pushing the broom or mop as a lowly janitor. Some might get discouraged at this - others look at it as being a step in the right direction and are educating themselves to move up from their present occupation or position in life.
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Dale Osborn
OP
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
13y
Callum Kerr Motivation is one of the keys needed for success. More specifically it is self-motivation. A person who does not need or want someone telling them what to do on a daily basis. Another key element you mention is education & learning. My father called the library "The Poor Man's University". Anything and everything you wanted to learn about was available there. Now with the internet, it is even easier for anyone who wants to learn to find available information. Self-education is very important and for those that do succeed you will see they are always learning more. Those who are successful are mot looking to earn a degree - they are learning to stay ahead of their competitors and learning for the fun of learning. Another key you will find is the need for change as the world changes - if you do not change also you will be left behind or go out of business.
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David Egger
Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2012 · 47 posts · 46 votes
13y
Not sure how you're not finding 'entrepreneurship' as a major when searching the internet. There is no such thing as 'real estate entrepreneurship' course, college (good ones) doesn't work like that. You need the base of the surrounding courses to be able to manage the advanced topics first. The advanced topics won't specifically apply to real estate, but the analysis is the same, net present value, accounting, cash flow statements, opportunity analysis, managing investors, etc. You learn the subject, then apply it to the given situation. Any program promising highly specialized courses isn't worth your time because the game changes over time - having a solid ground floor allows you to adapt and keep up, and also apply your skills across industries.

US News does the best rankings in my opinion (Princeton Review bases almost everything on surveys, allowing schools to game the rankings by encouraging their students to submit glowing recommendations)
- I got my MBA from #8.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools/entrepreneurship-rankings

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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y
A college degree doesn't guarantee you a high paying job. Neither does the lack of a degree mean you're limited to minimum wage jobs. The right college degree does open opportunities you won't have without the degree. The wrong college degree means you're stuck with a bunch of debt. You want an entry level technical job at my day job (a large computer company) and you better have a graduate degree from one of a very short list of schools. That's certainly not for everyone. But for some that's their chosen path.

To say Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were successful despite the lack of degrees, and therefore degrees don't matter is downright silly. These two were blessed with an incredible amount of just plain luck. They came from environments were they were exposed to just the right ideas, just the right technology, and just the right people at just the right time. There are thousands of others who were just as bright and yet didn't have this same "alignment of the planets" that led to their success.

A huge factor in success is, in fact, NOTHING BUT LUCK. Being it the right spot with the right skills at the right time will make more difference than a ton of "book smarts", "street smarts" or "hard work". Smarts and hard work matter. Without them you won't get past the starting line. But without some good luck, they won't give you success by themselves.

If you want a thoughtful examination of this topic, give Malcom Gladwell's "Outliers" a read. http://www.amazon.com/Outliers-Story-Success-Malcolm-Gladwell/dp/0316017930/

Now, on the topic of college. I do believe the entire higher education system is broken. Its more about buildings and prestige and having a four year party than actually getting a useful educations. There are a couple of threads here that talk about alternative education sources. If the public library is the "poor man's university", the information and online learning opportunities on the internet takes that even further. I grew up in rural MO where out public library was smaller than most houses. We had a set of World Books that were several years out of date when my dad bought them. The "Whole Earth Catalog" was an education in itself about what was out there in the world. I spent many hours pouring over these limited resources. Now someone who wants to take a college level course can sign up on line for free using some of the resources discussed in those other threads. With the right search, you can learn just about anything. The current university system has been around now for many centuries. I believe that, unless it radically changes, our descendants will look back at our current times as the time when universities died.

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