Predatory or just business?

Predatory or just business?

Real Estate Consultant · Houston TX · Member since 2021 · 125 posts · 93 votes

I need to talk about something that happens at real estate education and networking events that nobody in a position to stop it wants to talk about.

New investors show up. They are told the market is full of opportunity. They are encouraged to act fast before the window closes. They are sometimes explicitly encouraged to liquidate retirement accounts for down payments. And they are handed numbers by wholesalers that do not reflect what the deal actually costs or what it will realistically produce.

I had a debate about this recently with a lender who was defending the practice.

He conceded within the first few minutes that due diligence is essential. He conceded that most wholesalers in these environments don't know real numbers. He could not however agree that presenting unreliable numbers to financially inexperienced people in environments designed to encourage fast decisions was predatory.

I want to be specific about what predatory means in this context because the word matters.

It does not require malice. It requires a structure where one party has information the other doesn't, profits regardless of the outcome, and operates in an environment where the information asymmetry is unlikely to be corrected before the check is written.

The lender gets their points at closing. The wholesaler gets their assignment fee. The new investor gets whatever the deal actually produces which is frequently not what the numbers on the flyer suggested.

When I made this argument clearly and directly the debate stopped being a debate. Threats were made. Industry contacts were called. Claims were made that I had threatened him.

I had not threatened him. I had made an argument he could not answer and he responded accordingly.

Here is what you need to take from this.

Every number you receive from anyone who profits at closing regardless of your outcome needs to be verified independently before you commit anything. Not because everyone is dishonest. Because the structure of these transactions does not require honesty to generate a profit for the people presenting the numbers.

Know what is real. Find someone who does not profit from your decision to tell you whether the numbers make sense. That conversation is worth more than every education event you will ever attend.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
4mo

its called Caveot emptor .  There is no question though that RE for whatever reason folks think is the way to get rich and retire.. irrational exuberance.. And then presented in a format right out of MLM marketing structures. 

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  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    4mo

    its called Caveot emptor .  There is no question though that RE for whatever reason folks think is the way to get rich and retire.. irrational exuberance.. And then presented in a format right out of MLM marketing structures. 

  • MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4mo

    I am torn because while I absolutely believe people need to do their own due diligence I also see many operating as predators with blatant disregard if not actual malice. I guess the bottom line is if it seems too good to be true it probably is…with everything in life most notably C&D neighborhoods.

  • Real Estate Consultant · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2022 · 471 posts · 260 votes
    4mo

    Hi JS from Houston Tx-

    Great question! You asked about encouraging investors, especially new investors, to maybe over-leverage or use funds that might be better off in their retirement savings to invest in real estate out of concern for the investors.

    I think it is a valid point. Yes, real estate is a great investment if you are buying well and have a trusted local team but things do come up that did not fit the underwriting of the deal and investors are better off using money dedicated to their real estate investing and not getting over-leveraged and having a comfortable reserve for the unexpected.

    To Your Success! 

  • Basit SiddiqiBusiness Member
    Accountant · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 8k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4mo

    What industry contacts were called?
    Do you care if those contacts were called? If they are on the same boat as the lender, you likely don't want to do busienss with them anyway.

    Claims are claims, who cares.

    The new environment we are in is that many people are small businesses. They make money only if they make a sale. A lot of people will act ethical and do things above board and act in a win-win situation(Everyone benefits). However, there are always going to be some people who will try to make money on the next.

    I do want to say though that a lot of wholesales have no idea what the numbers should or shouldn't be.
    It is a numbers game for many, they try to lock up properties at whatever price and then just apply a mark up when they advertise it to their 'buyer list'.


  • Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4mo

    Due diligence is so important in everything we do. I like the old "trust but verify" approach.

  • Alyssa MarquezBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · San Antonio TX / Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2023 · 120 posts · 29 votes
    2mo

    That’s an issue particularly with new investors. Numbers presented by the people on a transaction shouldn’t be trusted unless those numbers have been independently “underwritten”. Realistic Rehab costs, a solid estimate of “marketrents”, and conservatively estimated”exit costs areall important. If the person who benefits from you closing a transactionhas anything to do with the numbers being presented,you should always want a neutral third party involved in verifying the deal prior to you investing your capital.

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