Unhealthy Frugality Disease

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Unhealthy Frugality Disease

Julie MarquezPro Member
Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes

Blame it on the holidays, consumerism season, or the purchase of my latest rehab project, but I've been thinking a lot about my relationship with spending money. I have this unhealthy relationship with healthy money management. It probably stems from the fact that my real estate investor parents are very frugal, and I grew up sorting our garbage into burnables and non-burnables, saving everything, and never spending money unless it were heavily discounted or a tremendous value (hello all you can eat buffets). Then I found mint.com about five years ago and started diligently tracking my personal spending habits. This tool is a great resource to budget and save, and it helped me to save up for a new car and then buy an investment property.

But what isn't cool is my determination to save all my money, and this little internal goal of mine to spend as little money as possible. Having the idea that I have to save everything puts me in a lot of despair at times; like when I had to shell out $100 for a (worthless) doctor appointment and $100 for a flat tire.

I'm not even a poor person. I make enough money from my job to save about $2000 a month; but I have created this mentality that if I'm not saving $2000 or more, then I'm losing money. But this terrible disease about NOT spending money ruins me when I HAVE to spend a little money. Some say it's just the cost of life. I say that I need to change my mentality so I don't get all crotchety when the fact of the matter arises.

So there's my broken, little, money heart on the line. I need a new view on my money and to understand it's power and joy, and to not get so hurt about parting with it. Do any other real estate investors suffer from unhealthy frugality and how to I transform my relationship with spending money? Thanks friends!

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Account Closed
Investor 路 Singapore 路 Member since 2013 路 1k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
9y

People put way too much emphasis on money. Just because its easy to count doesnt mean its the only way to track your life. What is far far more valuable and non renewable is time. To me money is a way to get better experience with my time. I have a certain number of days on the planet. Money allow me to spend them more in the way I want to and less in the way I dont. Thats it. If I buy a nice house to live in, my time is more enjoyable than if I am homeless. If I drive a BMW, my time in the car is more fun than in a Honda. If I travel, its experiences that enrich my life. If I help people, it gives me satisfaction of doing some good. If I didnt spend the money, I would have none of that and would have wasted my time. Which is far more terrifying to me than losing money.

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  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Brandon Hall @Jeff Brower Great article! FYI - huge pet peeve of mine is when BP republishes articles that might be a tad outdated, but this one is great. I understand paying for things that make my life better. I also hate commuting and would pay to live closer. @Andrey Y. I hope that my savings issue is getting me towards additional streams of income, right now I'm saving up for down payment for the investment property. And hopefully out of my W2 job in the future.

    @Mark F. It's nice to connect with other frugal people, as we know it helps us in our goals. I won't skip out on paying, but I might be no fun and skip out on the event. No way to live life.

    @Pavel Bennett I do work hard to find a good value, maybe not always the best use of my time. Value is a key point here, and I actually value my health a lot, though I don't like that organic chicken is twice the price of regular. Happiness is key here too, and while I want to be money smart, it's not always making me happy when the budgeting is driving me crazy.

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  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Shannon Vanderweide Nice to meet someone in the same boat, I feel the same way! But what really happens when I can't save my $2000 a month? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The savings pot still got bigger, but not by as much as I hoped for originally. It's not life or death, it's just a mild feeling of failure (that I'd like to get over).

    @Tim Hall Good idea, I'm all okay with healthy debt. Maybe I need to redirect my focus on how to acquire this cash for wealth.

    @Christal M. I know, it's not the worst problem to have. Good idea to be realistic and set aside money for those emergency things and doctor appointments. That's a great way to look at the Fun Fund, it's a gift to myself! Thanks for the great suggestions!

    @Steve Bracero Yes, I'm an reviewing my finances daily, and that's what drives me crazy! In an ideal world I don't have to pay for a flat tire, so I don't create a budge line item for it, and then it happens and it upsets the budget! I am saving up for a downpayment for my next investment property, because I want that "passive" income. This is just the spot I'm in now to get to that additional stream goal.

    0Reply
  • Doug Van Liew
    Real Estate Agent 路 Virginia Beach, VA 路 Member since 2016 路 29 posts 路 24 votes
    9y
    There needs to be a good balance of living in a fashion that makes you happy and properly preparing you for the future. I despise spending money on things for myself that don't turn that money into more money. That said, when I am in that position of spending money it's important to make sure you network while doing it. I went Christmas shopping for the wife at a local family run jewelry store and walked out with a gift and two new clients. The father is looking to expand his portfolio and the son recently got married and is looking to purchase his first home. When I purchase a rehab or other property, that is my savings account and growing. For me it's more comfortable putting money into a distressed property over some "feel good investment" like a 401k or CD's. Try having the mindset of how much can a purchase make you versus "I'm spending X amount of money". Networking is your greatest investment, so do that when you are spending money on "wasteful" things. I've gotten a Doctor along with a NP that works there as prospects while at a doctors appt. Back in 2006 I had to spend a stupid amount of money to an attorney due to ticket from a cop on a power trip. This year he became my number one investor client. I think you get the point. Find the gain in the loss!
    1Reply
  • Ray Lai
    Investor / Vendor 路 San Diego, CA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 949 votes
    9y

    @Julie Marquez

    Wow, it's surprising that we *had* the same disease. I used to feel the same way if I wasn't saving at least $2000 a month I felt like I was 'losing' money too.

    Wanna know my cure? I bet it'll work for you too.

    1) Being a genuine/honest person that tries to add value to others. I found some mentors who liked me for who I am and because I added value to their lives. I'm a honest, hard-working person and I don't mince words. Once you have mentors, you will naturally want to be like them. My first mentor who made his millions in the stock market taught me that my mentality was inefficient and a waste of time. He said I "wasted time trying to save money when I should be spending the time earning more money". He knew that I was already frugal and that I would add more to my net worth by finding more ways to earn.

    2) Focus on thinking in 2 ways when it comes to your money/time. Active versus passive income
    a) Is there a way to increase the multiplying effect of your time to create more active money? Usually this comes from purchasing knowledge, information to increase your skills - like leveling up in a Role-Playing Game so that you're able to do more value-added task to bring in more money
    b) Is there a way you can increase your passive income with a little investment in either time or money? Passive income is amazing!

    3) Most important thing, thanks Grant Cardone for putting it so succinctly. Never save money to save money, only save money to invest! Once I heard this I realized I used to save money for saving money's sake and it did nothing. All money saved should be spent on investing anyways, so once you change that thought process, you will find your money working for you once you learn how to invest wisely.

    Best analogy I can think of is: Money is like money tree seeds. There are good seeds and bad seeds. People will try to get you to buy the bad seeds all the time but when you learn how to identify the right seeds, you will want to plant all your money tree seeds and not worry about 'saving' it. Why save useful seeds?

    "You can't take it with you" didn't help me. I can always pass along my wealth to my children, friends, or family.

    Looking at the amazing people in my life and how they are generous with their time and money made me able to give up the extreme-frugality disease.

    2Reply
  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Lori Schaffer Wow, what a neat perspective! I love this! There is a lot of power in money and how I view it, and I want to take more of this grateful approach. Thanks so much for sharing, I realize that money can be used for beautiful things in the world and to make this world a more beautiful place.

    @Andrew Junquet Thanks for the resources and links, I'll definitely look into those! I love the idea of realizing where you don't need to spend (cable) and putting your money towards things you love and that give you life (vacations). I'm good at cutting out things, but need to be more comfortable with putting money towards the things I love.

    @Karen Young Money is security for me too. I want to have a large collection of it (though not useful in reality). I am working on a fun fund to get myself to spend and just live freely.

    @Willy Waldron I want my money to work for me, and I my goal is to view it as a tool. It is currently a burden for me, I need to change my mindset. Thanks for the book recommendation, it's been on my to-read list for a while now.

    @Franklin Romine That's my goal! How'd you get the money to buy real estate? I'm saving for downpayment now.

    @ed 

    @Ed B.Your frugality is what allows you to be "rich" in other areas, you sound just like my dad! I guess being frugal isn't the worst thing in the world.

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
    9y

    Great topic. 

    One thing everyone - especially investors - should always remember is that all of that waste is someone's job, and is what allows those of us with a little different mindset to make a passive living. For example, if everyone decided to buy a duplex, live in one half and rent the other, then no one would be able to do it because there would be no renters. Making a profit in the world, if you exclude the generation of new ideas or inventions, or holding a monopoly on a necessity, usually means exploiting and leveraging the inefficiencies in a system for personal gain. Thus, we can rent out houses because some people can't maintain credit or money to buy a house, or prefer to buy Starbucks instead of paying homeowners insurance. Property managers then make money managing the portfolio created by this scenario, multiplied thousands of times over. ETC. 

    I give thanks all the time for the people who spend every last dollar, as they make what I do possible. 

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire 路 Northeast, TN 路 Member since 2015 路 10k+ posts 路 16k+ votes
    9y

    Julie, PS: Give yourself more credit, you have the frugality thing licked already. Know how I know? You're having a kid. Unless you get lucky and that kid turns out to be Bill Gates, bringing another human being into your home for 18+years is just about the most unfrugal thing you could possibly do in your life. Even a cheap kid will cost you over $100k in 18 years. 馃槂

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  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Bryan Hancock Thank you for the resources and the takeaways! My current little issues is with #2, that cutting my expenses and being frugal to save for a future investment is actually decreasing my quality of life and driving me crazy! You point a lot to taxes, and that expense is going to make me fret in a couple of months, I better prepare for that too.

    @Art S. Fun idea! Invest and have fun! That puts a smile on my face, I'll have to consider this in my goals!

    @Catherine German I love that thought, as a giver and provider. Thanks for that perspective, it's super helpful in changing how I view this tool of money and how I want it to work for me and make me happy. I want to give and provide and help, and I can do that with the wealth I have been blessed with.

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  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Pavel Bennett I like that idea in allowing myself to enjoy life. I really just need to have a budget line item for travel. When I see all that cash back I get from my Costco credit card and AMEX, I first think that I can save it! Time to change that and allow myself to have fun with that "gift."

    @Doug Van Liew I love your story at the jewelry store! Spending money allowed you to help so many people in different way, and it will help you more in the long run! Networking, I need to remember that, and that relationships are more important than hoarding cash. How many people can I meet and what impact can I make while at my $100 appointment? Interesting idea! Thanks for sharing your stories!

    @Ray Lai Thanks for sharing, it's nice to hear from someone with that same old thoughts as me. I am saving for a down payment for my next investment property. But somehow the saving game is making me crazy. I like the seed analogy, to use the money to plant more money trees! Yes, I want to be more like the great and generous people I see in my life. That is inspiration to me. Thanks for sharing your story, it's super helpful to hear in my journey!

    @JD Martin Interesting thought, we investors are different people and wouldn't survive without those spenders. I think my saving budget is about to get blown and my priorities will change come February, and I'll learn what money well spent really means.

    1Reply
  • Al Casino
    Banker 路 Solon, OH 路 Member since 2016 路 12 posts 路 9 votes
    9y
    Julie Marquez , Congrats on the pending birth of your child. There are many interesting perspectives that have been presented, all of them good. I commend you for your frugality, because the alternative, I think, is worse. I can offer a suggestion that is off topic, but I think is helpful. What is the goal of your frugality? You've mentioned before that it is to save and buy your next property. But that's the next step, what is the end game? Andre Agassi, and maybe you don't know of him, was a dominant tennis player in the 90's and early 2000's. As a young man he became the number one tennis player in the world, yet it brought him no joy, and eventually he settled into drug use. At his low point , probably rock bottom, he changed his purpose. Interested in helping disadvantaged youth, he created a foundation to assist them. Returning to tennis, he again found success , because now he realized he could use his winnings to help fund his foundation. While not as successful during his younger days, he didn't need to be. He was still earning a great amount of money, and he knew that any amount helped benefit his foundation. In other words he didn't need to win, but knew that if he did, the more people he helped. And either way, his new goal was more sustaining (he writes of this in his autobiography, Open). Julie, If you hit the magical $2,000 a month figure, fantastic. But if you fall short, realize it's still okay, because you're that much closer to buying your next property. I hope you found some value in my post.
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  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Al Casino Thank you for that story! Yes, save up for investments so that I don't have to work at my job, so I can retire early, and have more freedom in my life. All this for my coming family. Though I do have a pull on my heart to do more and serve more and find that purpose. Wow, this is more than just money, but using money that makes me happy and gives to others. And yes, if I don't hit $2000 a month, that's not the end of the world. I think I'm going to have to reevaluate that goal with a new baby and reevaluate how I want to serve my family with my money. Thank you!

    0Reply
  • Todd F.
    Investor 路 Riverside, CA 路 Member since 2014 路 239 posts 路 177 votes
    9y
    Julie Marquez you sure fired up the interests of the BP community with this thread! What a great read and a great way to think of different perspectives. I can absolutely respect your frugality, as I've been in the complete opposite scenario. The moment I "changed" my ways of thinking was the day I realized that after I had my new job that tripled my income (literally), I stopped and looked at my spending habits and realized that nothing in my life had changed. I spent more, much more, and had absolutely nothing new or more to show for it. My life was the same, my bank account was the same, and I truly couldn't show you what I had spent my money on. Completely blew money at the time. So dumb. So, after that realization I changed how I spent (and saved) my money. Experiences, investments, life fulfilling things. I didn't spend LESS, I just spent it in different more wholesome fulfilling ways. It completely changed my life path. Do I save money? Oh hell yea, but I also spend it, in smart ways. It's a path I'll never stop or regret. Anyways, that's my story and I'm sticking to it haha, good luck on your "transformation"!
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  • Ben H.
    Investor 路 Jacksonville , NC 路 Member since 2015 路 143 posts 路 54 votes
    9y
    Enjoying this thread as I could talk personal finance all day. My own journey is heavily influenced by my parents (Dad mostly) who was in turn influenced by his parents (children of the Depression). They were doing the envelope system long before Dave Ramsey made it cool. That helped me greatly to control spending when I didn't have the income I do now (and influenced my wife whose family couldn't spend or borrow money fast enough). And for years I hoped to penny pinch and invest in mutual funds and the stock market my way to wealth. After years of that and realizing I didn't want to be 80 with a million I changed my focus to increasing wealth now. And that has led to taking the money that previously was going to the stock market and investing in myself through different business ventures- which include real estate. That has also let me a bit freer with money since in the long game a family vacation is worth far more now than a family vacation later (when my kids hate me). I haven't made it big yet but I thank the Lord I do have a job that allows me to not worry about daily expenses. In the end it came to setting goals. And I realized that saving and being a penny pincher "just because" was no way to live. Somewhat disjointed post but I'll ponder some more and come back to this thread. Definitely second the "Secrets of the Millionaire Mind" book.
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  • Wilson Jing
    Investor 路 Jackson, MS 路 Member since 2014 路 20 posts 路 9 votes
    9y
    lol Julie! I was brought up the same way and it's so funny that is the way that my wife is too. Honestly I don't think it's a "problem" at all that you are frugal. As real estate investors we under the power of money and see money as tool of our trade instead of payment for our next indulgences. It's so rewarding to have a treat such as going to a buffet for my wife and I we have such a blast! Also we often think of being a frugal as a game. We often give each other high fives for great deals like on groceries ($1.99 for 2 crab cakes! Score! Or 49 cents for dozen of eggs!) I think it's so funny that when I talk to my renters and they complaint living paycheck to paycheck and I see the luxaries they view as necessities. For example new car (mine is 2001 camary) on lease, cable tv and decorations for Christmas time all just seems so excessive to me. So yea live a little but I wanna give you a high five for having the discipline to be frugal!
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  • Peter Rowell
    Albany, NY 路 Member since 2016 路 32 posts 路 12 votes
    9y

    I'm a big MMM fan, but I think some of the frugality tips and calculation are a bit over the top. I tried to mimic a lot of them, but I found the stress created by optimising each purchase decision wasn't worth it. If it is a one-time decision for a recurring expense, I'll spend the time to optimize it but I won't stand at the grocery store comparing cans of corn to see what is the cheapest based on net weight. 

    The way I think is to get your big pillars right (mortgage, car payment, insurance, etc) and then let the small stuff kind of happen. You will drive yourself crazy analyzing every single purchase.

    Another thing I have noticed is the more frugal I try and be, the less ambitious I am with the other side of the equation: income. Pinching pennies definitely dampens the mindset (at least for me) when it comes to growth in life and real estate. It's hard to explain, but I feel like being a little looser with money (to a point) emboldens me and helps me take on challenges that I would not try otherwise.

    1Reply
  • Ben H.
    Investor 路 Jacksonville , NC 路 Member since 2015 路 143 posts 路 54 votes
    9y

    @Peter Rowell, I think you are spot on. A scarcity mindset definitely limits your potential. I'm having to retrain myself to have an abundance mindset. While I don't necessarily subscribe to the visualization methods that are taught- I definitely believe most folks self-limit their potential and the potential outcome. Think small- act small. I heard an interview with Mark Cuban recently. He was asked whether he thought he could become a millionaire again if he lost everything. His answer was Yes he could and that it wouldn't take take long. Not arrogance, just assurance and the mindset that he would find the money. Merry Christmas. 

    1Reply
  • Joy Abia
    Real Estate Agent 路 Maple Valley, WA 路 Member since 2015 路 40 posts 路 13 votes
    9y

    What a great thread. I just decided to close own FB and focus on bigger pockets for my socializing needs and boom!  I find this thread. Thanks for sharing your struggles @Julie Marquez . I have the opposite problem of over spending. But I believe you spend money to make money. I also read MMM, funny! I love the guy his mindset of possibility thinking but I know I dont have his spirit of excessive savings to stressful for a natural free spirit like me. I think inbtween the extreme saver and the liberal spender we could find ourselves and fit into what is most comfortable. I cannot be like MMM at all wouldnt fit my person... and one doesnt have to be all MMM to be wealthy. Thanks again!

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  • Michaela G.
    Investor 路 Atlanta, GA 路 Member since 2013 路 3k+ posts 路 3k+ votes
    9y

    I haven't read all of the responses, so, I'm sure this has been brought up. I think to just simply spending more is not going to help you, because it'll just make you feel guilty. 

    It sounds as if this goes much deeper and stems from your upbringing, your parents equating being frugal with 'being good' and thus you subconsciously trying to please your parents - as most of us do with certain actions. 

    So, I think unless you work on the cause, just hiding the symptom is not going to do anything for you. 

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  • Steve Bracero
    Real Estate Agent 路 Westboro, MA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 471 votes
    9y

    @Julie Marquez

    Yes, I agree there will be unexpected expenses, things that are out of your control.. But, you have to know you have the money saved so you shouldn't blink an eye if you need to spend the $ for an immediate fix. Yes, I am also saving for a downpayment. Passive income is the key and why I am studying real estate especially multi families. What I did I found very helpful, was map out my income for the next 32 weeks... If you are non on commission, you could map out targets bi weekly (that's what i'm doing) and every 2 weeks I see now I am doing towards my goal. It only took me about 20m to make the list, also its very easy to see your target 

    Also, there is an app called rewire (download for free), where you set it up to your phone and it reminds you on a goal.... I have it set up to my phone 6 times a day so I constantly see my goals ( I also write them down daily in the AM) 

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  • John C.
    Investor 路 New York, NY 路 Member since 2011 路 36 posts 路 25 votes
    9y

    So many great responses, and ways of looking at life and money. 

    Julie, you are definitely not alone in this.  Whenever I think I'm being too frugal with my money, I think about how much worse it would be to not know the value of money, to spend like there's no tomorrow, or to not have enough money. 

    Happy holidays!

    1Reply
  • John C.
    Investor 路 New York, NY 路 Member since 2011 路 36 posts 路 25 votes
    9y

    @Ray Lai

    Wise words.  It's so funny that I've always enjoyed Role playing video games and have always looked at accomplishing life goals and esp money in that way.  I love to "get through missions" and find special "power ups" that make leveling up faster!

    2Reply
  • Karl B.
    Rental Property Investor 路 Erie, PA 路 Member since 2015 路 1k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    9y

    I suppose I'm more frugal than not. I would rather be more on the frugal side than a person who lives beyond his or her means. 

    But a fun game I like to play is when I have to spend money I think of how I can make that money back as quickly as possible. There are lots of ways to do this - I might sell sports cards at a sports card show, buy and flip something nice on Craig's List (often sports cards or things people are often wanting to buy like folding ladders). 

    It curbs the guilt and annoyance of the fact I had to spend money on something. 

    My father is more frugal than not as well but he's also got a commercial real estate empire - he reinvested his money for many decades and as a result he didn't have a lot of money to spend on other things which made him and my mom frugal as a result. 

    Don't be so hard on yourself - you're investing in RE and if you're frugal you're likely not in debt, which most people are. 

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  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Todd Fithian I love you story and that you now find spending money in wholesome and fulfilling ways. I want to do that too!

    @Ben H. Thanks for your thoughts here! Doing important things with your money now is much better than saving it for later. Take your kids to Hawaii and they will love you forever!

    @Wilson Jing High five back to you too! I found eggs $.99 for 5 dozen the other day; we didn't need eggs, but I had to buy them! I am very fortunate to have my upbringing and discipline to save. I just need to remember to rejoice and high five for the fun buffets and being out enjoying life.

    @Peter Rowell I like that point of being looser with your money actually advances you in life. Pinching pennies is not the mindset I want, I totally have lost focus on the income side while obsessing over the wrong side.

    @Joy Abia I'll have to admit since becoming a BP member, I hardly check my FB. Lots of socialize about on here with people of similar mindsets and goals. I am realizing that being more free with my money will make me more happy, and hopefully take me to make more money and achieve all my goals in the long run. I love your natural free spirit!

    @Michaela G. This actually hasn't been brought up yet. I will feel guilty, that's my problem and something I would like to get over. After driving my old Camry for 12 years, I saved and bought a newer used Lexus (my dream car). I had buyers remorse for weeks, and couldn't believe I spent money on a car! I thought my dad would just hmmmmp at me, but instead, he was super happy and proud of me, and actually told me that the car was perfect for the professional part of my life I was trying to achieve (and I got a great new job a couple months later). Small wins every day, but I'm always working on getting over the guilt part.

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  • Julie MarquezPro Member
    OP
    Investor 路 Skagit County, WA 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 807 votes
    9y

    @Steve Bracero That's a lot of tracking! Yes, I have good saving goals, but I track my spending too much now, and it drives me crazy! If I don't hit my weekly targets, I would get distraught! I'm glad you found what works for your goals!

    @John C. Thanks John! We are not in the worst position ever, and I am very thankful for what I have.

    @Karl B. Yes, our frugal habits will help us be successful, but in the time being, I don't want to be a penny pinching, non social tight wad, where I cry looking at my bank statements when I spend just a little too much on groceries. I really like your suggestion to think about making back your money!

    0Reply
  • Ben H.
    Investor 路 Jacksonville , NC 路 Member since 2015 路 143 posts 路 54 votes
    9y

    @Julie Marquez, took the kids to Cancun actually.

    And to all, the book I meant to reference earlier was not "Secrets off the Millionaire Mind" but rather "The Millionaire Fastlane" by M. J. DeMarco.

    1Reply
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