Ask me your electrical questions!
Electrician · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 96 votes
I've been an electrician in Washington (the real one..) for 10 years, residential, commercial, and industrial. I've learned a ton from BP so this is me trying to give back with knowledge of something I know very well. Hit me up anytime.. even if you're reading this a year from now..
Sometimes I look at older homes that have old break boxes or have brands that are known to be bad. I ask my electrician about changing out the breaker box and he gives me a price. That part I get. Then he talks about changing out the service as well. What all does changing out the service include?
it means everything from the riser, the rain head, the cam, the meter, the wire from the meter to the pane..
look at this pic... it's from the "weatherproof fittings" to the "Service wire holder".
I have a bathroom that has a light and fan on separate switches. I would like to combine them so the fan will automatically go on when the light it switched on. Is this as easy as just running the wires to the same switch? Would I need to have a certain switch to begin with in order for this to work? Any input would be helpful! Thanks!!
Disclaimer: I am not a professional electrician.
The big question for your situation: does the fan also have a heater in it, or is it just a fan?
If it has a heater in it, the heater is probably on its own circuit, and it may not be a good idea to combine the heater and the light onto one switch.
In *theory*, you could combine a heater and a light with a double-pole switch - this is essentially two "regular" single pole switches with a common handle. It would keep the heater and light circuits separate, but allow you to control both of them at once. I don't know if this is acceptable under the electrical code, though. I found one reference online that says it isn't (see http://ecmweb.com/content/code-quandaries-42 ), so I am hesitant to recommend it as a D-I-Y.
If it's just a fan, most bathroom fans I have ever seen only take a few dozen watts, so combining it with the light is probably OK. If there is only one hot wire or feed wire coming into the box with both switches - in other words, both the fan and the light are powered from the same circuit breaker - then I'm sure it's fine to do this.
If there are two hot wires or feed wires coming into the box with both switches - in other words, the fan and light are powered from separate circuit breakers - then it gets trickier and possibly not acceptable under the electrical code, *I think*.
An alternative, if you are worried about people forgetting to turn the fan off, is to install a timer switch for the fan; you set the timer for however long you want and the fan runs for that amount of time and then shuts off. For a bathroom fan, get a timer that has 30 or 60 minutes maximum. The simplest kind to install is the mechanical spring-wound kind; it has two terminals, just like a regular toggle switch, and it fits the same mounting holes as a regular toggle switch. You can also get digital timers - some of these need a white wire (neutral wire) in the outlet box and some don't.
One drawback to a timer switch is that the body of the switch - the part that sits inside the outlet box - tends to be physically large. If you have a smaller outlet box in the wall, or lots of wires and wire nuts in there already, it may be hard to make the timer fit in the box.
Loren Thomas This is probably a Top10 thread on BP for helpfulness. I'm amazed. You rock!
This is rudely long - my apologies.
I've got a fourplex, recently purchased, that's undergoing a big ol rehab. One building was built early 40's, but has modern copper wire throughout. There's a 100A and a 200A panel, both I assume upgraded in the 70's since a second story was put on then.
Second building was built in the 70's and has a 100A panel. That building is going from a 1bed to a 3bed.
Each unit has a single breaker shutoff where the overhead service comes in, then a single sub panel inside the unit with breakers.
All sounds good so far.
We are adding a third unit to the original building, with permits. That means a new electric service. Couple questions:
1. If I'm going to upgrade the second building to a 200A service, do I have to pull a new service line to that building along with new sub panel and interior wiring?
2. Is it feasible to re-use the existing 100A service (the drop, the main shutoff) for the new unit? The new unit is a studio, so it doesn't need much.
I'm asking because the total electric is $26k for the project, mostly because there's 3 panel upgrades proposed. Is it the materials or the labor predominantly driving the cost? And, how should one approach an electrician when deciding whether new panels are necessary or whether they should just do their best with what's there?
And, wanna come to Southern California for 2 weeks and do this job? ;)
1. If you are upgrading from 100A and moving up to 200A, then yes you'll need new wiring that feeds it (and everything that goes along with doing that), unless it's currently over sized. Any branch circuits or feeders that come from the new 200A that were in the 100A should be compatible with the new equipment if planned properly.
2. 100A is probably enough for a small small space. If it's current code compliant then it may be allowable.
In my experience, labor and material were about 50/50. However, I realize now that I wasn't charging enough when I was in business.
I'd love to come to Cali, but I am so much happier not being a self-employed electrician. I Like putting in my time at work and being able to go home and shut my work switch off and be with my family.
I have a bathroom that has a light and fan on separate switches. I would like to combine them so the fan will automatically go on when the light it switched on. Is this as easy as just running the wires to the same switch? Would I need to have a certain switch to begin with in order for this to work? Any input would be helpful! Thanks!!
Yep, you have it correct. Might be easier to wire nut both the light and fan wires, and then connect them to the switch with a jumper, or pigtail.
1. Hmm... so I might still get a jolt from a wire that tests as dead? Unsettling, to say the least.
2. Only two screws have wires connected. The two shown in photo #2. The top is white, the bottom black. What do you mean by "buried box"? A hidden junction box?
3. Okay . . . That leads to another question. Different switch, also a 3 way with only 2 wires connected. The cable in the switch box is the old cloth-wrapped 2 strand no ground. The wires in the ceiling box that the switch controls are modern 12/2 w/ground Romex. When the switch is on, the white wire in the ceiling box is hot, not the black. I was assuming they accidentally reversed them in a connection somewhere. Am I making a bad assumption?
1. Yep
2. Yep
3. Hard to say, there's too many variables and unknowns.
How much will you charge me to come replace my nob and tube wiring and update my panel?
Thanks
How much will you charge me to come replace my nob and tube wiring and update my panel?
Thanks
Sorry Rob, I am not in a position to provide that service. If I were though, the panel would be about $2,000 and a modest hoise would likely be around $10k to rewire.
Hi Loren,
We just close a deal and got our three story building.
We need to do a total rehab and I wonder if you can tell me the price range that were facing for electrical work from scratch.
Some numbers:
3 story 1350 sqf each
Ground floor retail store
Second and third floors 2 apartments 2 bed each (4 apt total)
The area is a c class so we looking for standard and basic job.
If you need more details I'll provide them..
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with bp community!!
Hello,
I'd love to give you some decent input there but I just can't. There's too many variables. Pricing is something that just varies beyond what I can provide on the interwebz, especially a large job like that.
Question for you is...I have a foreclosure with no electric meter. Will the power company install a new meter for you, when they come to turn on the power?
Yep they should. They technically own the meter and also I can't see them turning on the power for you without a way to bill you for the privilege. Capitalism and all...
Loren, I love this thread. I have a house for sale and the garbage disposal is wired with the wiring in flexible conduit. Home inspector noted it, and the buyer wants it "upgraded" to hard conduit. I looked at the one in my own house which was installed by a handyman and it's just romex with no conduit.
So, what gives? What's the code? Thanks
Metal flexible conduit is an acceptable wiring method in my area and per the NEC. Just romex is not. Romex isn't rated for exposed wiring, even in cabinets.
Hard pipe seems pretty over the top to me without citing some sort of industrial use.
Thanks for offering your expertise!
I have a question on dryer electric:
I purchased a really good condition 100 year old 4-family about a month ago. One of my tenants has told me the dryer electric needs to be updated from a "regular outlet" (Type B) to 240v. When I first looked at the building and all original tenants were there, each had a functioning dryer using the same wiring.
I know there are 120v electric dryers, does the tentant just need a simple dryer plug conversion kit to work with Type B outlets for a 120v outlet?
Should a tripped GFCI outlet cause the rest of the outlets (non GFCI) on that breaker to lose power?
Everything wired AFTER the GFCI, or on the load side of the GFCI, will lose power if the GFCI is tripped, yes.
Thanks for offering your expertise!
I have a question on dryer electric:
I purchased a really good condition 100 year old 4-family about a month ago. One of my tenants has told me the dryer electric needs to be updated from a "regular outlet" (Type B) to 240v. When I first looked at the building and all original tenants were there, each had a functioning dryer using the same wiring.
I know there are 120v electric dryers, does the tentant just need a simple dryer plug conversion kit to work with Type B outlets for a 120v outlet?
I have never seen a 120v dryer that wasn't gas. I also don't know what a "Type B" outlet is. Are you trying to get 120v or 240v?
@Loren Thomas, I am learning so much from this thread. I wish all vendors did this!
@Loren Thomas This thread is awesome. I don't have an electrical question for you, just wanted to thank you for doing this.
For major renovation, as in rehab activities for residential, commercial, and industrial property, any upgrades to electrical systems must be within the supervision of a State Licensed Electrical Engineer. The Licensed Electrical Engineer will submit new Electrical and Circuit Drawings (Electrical Circuit Design), Load Calculations, Bill of Materials (BOM), and other required pertinent documentation specific to State Building Codes, in addition to environmental, fire, and hazard documentation and compliance reports within NEC, NFPA, and NEMA codes for permitting. Minor repairs, replacement, and retrofit can be done by a State Licensed Electrician.
For major renovation, as in rehab activities for residential, commercial, and industrial property, any upgrades to electrical systems must be within the supervision of a State Licensed Electrical Engineer. The Licensed Electrical Engineer will submit new Electrical and Circuit Drawings (Electrical Circuit Design), Load Calculations, Bill of Materials (BOM), and other required pertinent documentation specific to State Building Codes, in addition to environmental, fire, and hazard documentation and compliance reports within NEC, NFPA, and NEMA codes for permitting. Minor repairs, replacement, and retrofit can be done by a State Licensed Electrician.
This is not accurate in my area. Was there a question or something I missed?
In my area I don't know if you could even get away with installing 100 amps. Even a small 4 plex would easily overload. There's just more technology that gets plugged in now. If you are talking about 100 amps per unit you should go with that.
The no ground is a touchy subject. There's some things that can be done but more often then not, it makes sense to just replace the system. More reliable long term anyways.
If you've been told local code buy an electrician in your area, I'd take their recommendation.
@Loren Thomas Thanks a ton for keeping this thread going for so long. Just reading through it is invaluable. I own an older (circa 1910) single family home where the previous owner started making preps to turn it into a duplex (upper and lower). In doing this, they installed two breaker boxes with two meters. I'd like to finish the duplex renovation but if some of the upstairs is wired to the downstairs breaker box and meter (and vice versa), how big of a deal would it be to switch them back to where the appropriate wiring is to the appropriate boxes? The breaker boxes are located about 4 feet from each other.
I kind of rambled on there for a bit but hopefully I laid it out clear enough.