Attorney · Shawnee, OK · Member since 2013 · 350 posts · 230 votes
I am tired of buying window air units. I generally buy and hold SFRs built from the 1920s-1960s. Most do not have central heat and air systems. I have put in a couple full central systems and it has been too expensive for the return. I like the idea behind the ductless systems but am worried about the quality, ease of installation and maintenance. I have zero experience with them so all opinions are welcome!
I will have my licensed hvac guy install the first one but I am hoping to be able to do them myself at some point.
Rental Property Investor · Brunswick, ME · Member since 2016 · 65 posts · 25 votes
9y
@Nick N. Good news. Many contractors who don't have extensive experience with heat pumps say that they can't be a primary heat source but this is not the reality. I've used two 15,000 BTU Fujitsu Halcyons as my primary heat source for 4 winters in Maine with stretches of -20s and they keep our home 72 degrees with no problem. Insulation matters way more than heat source. We have the two on our first floor and no heat on the second floor- stays toasty up there all winter with the doors open. The mini-splits are the ones that are only efficient down to 15-20F above. Single head heat pumps are good down to -30 and below in my experience. The only reason the the Mitsubishi and Fujitsu units claim to be efficient only down to -13 (Well, Fujitsu says -15 but they use the same standard test which measures down to -13...) is because the lowest test standard is -13F, in the real world they produce great heat at the absolute lowest temperatures Maine can ever experience. I just installed a Mitsubishi 15,000 BTU as the one and only heat source in a single family rental and gave it extra insulation- each bedroom has supplemental baseboard if people want to keep their doors shut. After years of experience, I cannot say enough good things about heat pumps- I use them for hot air and hot water in all my properties whenever a furnace or boiler needs expensive repairs- goodbye fossil fuels. Insulation+heat pumps are about the same price as a new boiler/tank and a much safer investment in my opinion, who knows what oil/natural gas will cost next year or in 10 years. Efficiency Maine's $500 rebate means that these units are about $3K installed. Winter electric bills may be in the $150-$250/month range but summer I leave them off and our hot water/electric bill is about $40/mo- so annual utilities for a heat pump home might range $1500-$2500- a little less on average than a oil/gas home.
Investor · Morgantown, WV · Member since 2008 · 207 posts · 33 votes
9y
I've gotten 4 from thermospace.com and had good success with efficiency and 1 bed apartment in converting warehouse space to apartments. One mistake was trying to choose by sq footage only because you really need a handler for each room even though one handler may cover the sq footage. Each handler is at least $500 more. Also you really need to instruct renters to clean the filters monthly. They get dirty quick. Finally, if you have a situation where you pay utilities, a 16 to 22 seer unit can really cut costs and renters like the units so it adds value.
My concern is maintenance going forward.
Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Are you planning to use these as a primary heat source? I don't think they would handle the sustained low temps we have here. You'll still want some type of alternative system.
Rental Property Investor · Madison, WI · Member since 2013 · 629 posts · 339 votes
9y
Ryan is correct. When the temps get below about 15F these don't work so well. You need to have a supplemental heat source. Here in Wisconsin, we have these mini-splits in one unit, and we have forced air (gas) elsewhere in the building, so we divert some warm air to that unit on the coldest days. Some people add electric baseboard heat as backup, too. (though that's more expensive- we have that only in the bathroom)
Rental Property Investor · Haysville, KS · Member since 2014 · 24 posts · 16 votes
9y
Mine is on year 3. it struggles to make heat below 15 degrees but a space heater makes up the difference, Base board heat would be another option. Am getting ready to buy another 1 ton unit for installation this summer. Am still amazed at how quiet they are both inside and outside.
Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Nick N. I'm rooting for the technology to make these a viable primary option in ME but stretches of -20F are not uncommon. If relying solely on heat pumps that's a problem.
Are your units individually metered for electricity? They should each have their own meter. When you install the mini split system, it would get hooked into their breaker panel and therefore they would be charged the electricity when they run it.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
@Jared Leonhardt thanks for the input. We have been considering one for a Narragansett house and it would be under an overhang but would probably still raise it. do you have to use baseboard at all when you use this for heat? They recommend keeping it for backup but the electricity has to come from somewhere. We would probably leave electric baseboard in some other parts of the house since it is not open.
Rental Property Investor · Brunswick, ME · Member since 2016 · 65 posts · 25 votes
9y
@Nick N. Good news. Many contractors who don't have extensive experience with heat pumps say that they can't be a primary heat source but this is not the reality. I've used two 15,000 BTU Fujitsu Halcyons as my primary heat source for 4 winters in Maine with stretches of -20s and they keep our home 72 degrees with no problem. Insulation matters way more than heat source. We have the two on our first floor and no heat on the second floor- stays toasty up there all winter with the doors open. The mini-splits are the ones that are only efficient down to 15-20F above. Single head heat pumps are good down to -30 and below in my experience. The only reason the the Mitsubishi and Fujitsu units claim to be efficient only down to -13 (Well, Fujitsu says -15 but they use the same standard test which measures down to -13...) is because the lowest test standard is -13F, in the real world they produce great heat at the absolute lowest temperatures Maine can ever experience. I just installed a Mitsubishi 15,000 BTU as the one and only heat source in a single family rental and gave it extra insulation- each bedroom has supplemental baseboard if people want to keep their doors shut. After years of experience, I cannot say enough good things about heat pumps- I use them for hot air and hot water in all my properties whenever a furnace or boiler needs expensive repairs- goodbye fossil fuels. Insulation+heat pumps are about the same price as a new boiler/tank and a much safer investment in my opinion, who knows what oil/natural gas will cost next year or in 10 years. Efficiency Maine's $500 rebate means that these units are about $3K installed. Winter electric bills may be in the $150-$250/month range but summer I leave them off and our hot water/electric bill is about $40/mo- so annual utilities for a heat pump home might range $1500-$2500- a little less on average than a oil/gas home.
Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
@Dave Holman I appreciate the info. That is certainly encouraging news. Especially a week after I just shelled out $25k for a brandy new nat gas system at an apartment building....lol
Portland, ME · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 1 vote
9y
That's perfect. Just what I was looking for thanks Dave!! I'm planning on doing Airbnb with this unit so having the AC is a necessary option in my mind.
I'll just put a electric hot water heater in and I'll be good to go
Rental Property Investor · Brunswick, ME · Member since 2016 · 65 posts · 25 votes
9y
@Nick N. Efficiency Maine is offering a huge $750 rebate for heat pump water heaters. I just got another 50 Gal GE Geospring at Lowe's with my discount for $950...So $200 bucks for a 10 year warranty super efficient unit. On heat pump mode in a basement they are perfect, plus they dehumidify the basement.
Swansea, MA · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 17 votes
9y
Colleen F. I think it depends on the layout. You may want to heat the main living area with the heat pump and leave the electric baseboard in the bedrooms as mentioned above. Multiple units are also a possibility but it's starts to get pricey.
Rental Property Investor · Auburn, ME · Member since 2015 · 236 posts · 140 votes
9y
@Dave Holman This is interesting info, I am currently closing on a deal that has two houses on one lot and both are in need of new heating systems. They currently have oil furnaces hwbb.
Did you install the units yourself? If not who did you use to install the units? Thanks for any info and for what you already provided.
Rental Property Investor · Brunswick, ME · Member since 2016 · 65 posts · 25 votes
9y
Hi @Carl Hebert, I had professionals give quotes and install the units. Given the complexity and high stakes, I would NOT recommend DIYing heat pumps. Licensed master electrician is a key part of this. Install by 2-3 guys of one unit took less than a day. I got quotes from a bunch of installers and came down to Royal River Heat Pumps and Northeast Heat Pumps. RR uses Mitsubishi and Northeast does Fujitsu. Even though Northeast's quote was $400 less, I decided to go with Royal River for a few reasons: the owner Scott had done a great job for a family member and took a lot of personal time to explain things etc and his quote and company seemed much more professional- so I felt like the chances of things going wrong and future service were going to be best. Quotes from furnace and renewable energy companies were all like $1000+ too high, so I'd go with a heat pump specialist. Definitely tell either of those installers I sent you. Good luck!