Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
I would appreciate some input on an old 60s bathroom. It is a rental apartment and I am reworking some plumbing behind the walls.
This is a picture of the bathroom. As you can see ugly teal 4" ceramic wall tiles, white 16"X16" floor tiles, white toilet, pedestal sink and cast iron tub.
I have pulled the sink off the wall in order to do some plumbing and electrical repairs. In the process I had to cut a pretty big hole on the tiled wall to gain access to the wall cavity. Also, you can see on the tiles above the big hole, there are many drilled holes from various pedestal sink installed and changed out over the years.
My original plan was to just patch the hole with moisture resistant sheetrock, then install a new sink cabinet in front of the hole, and no one will ever see the patch. However, for a few other reasons that would take too long to explain, I MUST use a pedestal sink.
Replacing the tiles is impossible. There is no matching tiles to be found.
So now I am toying with the idea of cutting and finishing a piece of 3/4" THICK wood, 23" WIDE by 33" HEIGHT covering that area from the floor to above the sink, completely covering that hole as well as all drilled holes. Then the pedestal sink would be installed on top of it. Basically, the sink would have a headboard.
Part of the reason I am doing this is this board would be acting like an access panel cover as well.
Any suggestion as to what would look the best?
Should I stain the piece of wood to some contrasting color?
Should I paint it white instead?
Is there a way I can paint it white and extremely smooth it looks like porcelain so it looks like part of the pedestal sink?
Should I consider other materials?
I welcome any thoughts and suggestions you might have.
Real Estate Professional · Dublin, OH · Member since 2013 · 251 posts · 165 votes
9y
Patch wall with similar style tile then re-glaze all the wall tile.
Alternatively you can do a wainscoting right over top of the old tile with top trim piece and will cover everything up.
St. Louis, MO · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 4 votes
9y
I know you said it was to many reasons to list but unless I'm missing something in the pics a regular vanity sink looks like it would work. However since you said it was to many reasons, I would just get a piece of sheet rock(drywall the water resistant bathroom version) take a piece of the tile up to Home Depot or wherever and have them paint match it. Screw the sheet rock one, paint it, and use a strong caulk or liquid nails(may be to strong if you ever need to take it back off) to hold the sink back up(or use the existing screws) and call it a day. 99/100 people will probably never notice that piece.
Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes
9y
Use black tile...isnt there a black border? Or white to match the sink...you could paint the tile under the sink teal but the backsplash wouldn't hold up. (Those $3 samples in a teal cColor match...prime first).
Flipper · Louisville, KY · Member since 2017 · 65 posts · 28 votes
9y
I would either patch the tile in with a contrasting color tile or just patch in with whatever color then get some paint matched to the surrounding tile and painting the patch tile. Might not be an invisible repair and painted tile might need repainted every few years but close enough that it doesn't isn't an eyesore and. Wing under the basin won't be very noticeable.
Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
9y
I don't like green but for some reason I really like this tile with the white fixtures and white floor tile. From the looks of things you might need about 6 tiles to partially cover the hole and the sink will cover the rest. You have an extra 6 tiles behind the toilet tank if you are careful.
Real Estate Professional · Dublin, OH · Member since 2013 · 251 posts · 165 votes
9y
Patch wall with similar style tile then re-glaze all the wall tile.
Alternatively you can do a wainscoting right over top of the old tile with top trim piece and will cover everything up.
Flipper · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 218 posts · 345 votes
9y
I would not run the plywood all the way to the floor, moreover, I would not use plywood. What I'd think about doing is to make up my patch in 1/2 in. cement board, get me some mastic, and tile the cement board in white, bisque, bone wall tile (whatever color best approximates the fixtures), including the edge with bullnose overunning the edge of the cement board by 1/2 in. or thereabouts.
Drill out holes for your plumbing in that tiled board. Enlarge the hole you have in the wall until the patch recesses nicely into it and the bullnosed tile overrunning the edge sits flat against the existing tile. You'll need an angle grinder with a diamond turbo blade in it for this. Fur out the studs to eliminate space between the back of the cement board and the studs
Drill four 3/16 in. holes in the tiles covering the cement board with a diamond bit, positioning the holes so that they would be covered by the pedestal sink. Screw the patch to the studs with 3 1/2 deck screws running through fender washers. Install the pedestal sink to the wall through the patch. There's supposed to be a nice big pice of 2x8 blocking carefully installed right behind where those holes are, so it won't be the patch holding the sink in place.
Sam, I'm afraid this is just going to be a total, total crap job to make this tiled access panel I'm proposing look even close to decent if you don't have the tools and skills of a fully equipped tile contractor.
So my second idea is this: forget the access panel, and patch that hole with 1/2 in. drywall, preferably purple drywall, to eliminate those open studs and that code-breaking fire hazard. You say it HAS to be a pedestal sink and you would prefer not to explain why -- it's obvious why, there's no space there for even the smallest standard vanity. Explore the idea putting in a small wall-mounted cabinet with an itty-bitty vessel sink on top of it. It's often called a floating vanity, and you can hack up a really small one.
Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I don't like green but for some reason I really like this tile with the white fixtures and white floor tile. From the looks of things you might need about 6 tiles to partially cover the hole and the sink will cover the rest. You have an extra 6 tiles behind the toilet tank if you are careful.
There is no way to harvest those tiles for reuse. These tiles were laid in the 50s, by nailing metal wire lath on wood studs, then a coat of thick set around 2" in thickness were used to set the tiles. The hole I cut out, I used an 4.5" angle grinder with a diamond blade to cut and in some areas I didn't even make it all the way through. It's real thick and the wire lath were nasty to cut through. These tiles binded with the substrate too well and I was not able to save even one tile from the ones I cut out.
Full length mirror with beveled edges easiest cheapest quickest
An out of the box idea. However this won't work because there are protruding ceramic soap dish and tooth brush holders hanging off the wall now, and I think a mirror at full length means it will be sandwiched between the wall and sink, it will most likely crack as I tighten and mount the sink against the wall...Plus it will be a big hassle to cut the holes underneath for the one drain, two supply lines and two sink mounting holes.
Blue Springs, MO · Member since 2015 · 481 posts · 313 votes
9y
How about either a piece of stainless steel sheet, or a piece of that plastic wall paneling stuff that gets used in gas station bathrooms?
The stainless may need a machine shop to put the big holes for the supply and drain pipes in it. You can drill the mounting holes in it yourself, but you need a brand new drill bit, some oil, and patience.
The plastic wall paneling can probably be cut and drilled with tools you already have.
Failing that, put a piece of cement board or moisture-resistant drywall in the hole, and patch with some more 4x4 tiles. If you can't get a close match to those green ones, get some of those fancy tiles that have curlicues and stuff printed on them and show it off completely. :D
Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
9y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I would not run the plywood all the way to the floor, moreover, I would not use plywood. What I'd think about doing is to make up my patch in 1/2 in. cement board, get me some mastic, and tile the cement board in white, bisque, bone wall tile (whatever color best approximates the fixtures), including the edge with bullnose overunning the edge of the cement board by 1/2 in. or thereabouts.
Drill out holes for your plumbing in that tiled board. Enlarge the hole you have in the wall until the patch recesses nicely into it and the bullnosed tile overrunning the edge sits flat against the existing tile. You'll need an angle grinder with a diamond turbo blade in it for this. Fur out the studs to eliminate space between the back of the cement board and the studs
Drill four 3/16 in. holes in the tiles covering the cement board with a diamond bit, positioning the holes so that they would be covered by the pedestal sink. Screw the patch to the studs with 3 1/2 deck screws running through fender washers. Install the pedestal sink to the wall through the patch. There's supposed to be a nice big pice of 2x8 blocking carefully installed right behind where those holes are, so it won't be the patch holding the sink in place.
Sam, I'm afraid this is just going to be a total, total crap job to make this tiled access panel I'm proposing look even close to decent if you don't have the tools and skills of a fully equipped tile contractor.
So my second idea is this: forget the access panel, and patch that hole with 1/2 in. drywall, preferably purple drywall, to eliminate those open studs and that code-breaking fire hazard. You say it HAS to be a pedestal sink and you would prefer not to explain why -- it's obvious why, there's no space there for even the smallest standard vanity. Explore the idea putting in a small wall-mounted cabinet with an itty-bitty vessel sink on top of it. It's often called a floating vanity, and you can hack up a really small one.
I have the needed tools but I am trying to avoid adding too much more time to this. The tile board idea is nice but it doesn't address all my issues.
Yes there is a backing board behind the tiles where you see all the drilled holes. That was one of the many reasons I cut open that wall. I was trying to change out the faucet and couldn't really get to the underside of the sink to loosen it, I decided to remove the sink to mount it, and the sink pulled right out of the way without much effort, when I didn't even remove the mounting hardware. The backing board that was there was totally rotted and eaten up by termites, it became swiss cheese. Once I opened up the hole, I reached up behind the wall and pull out the backing board in chunks of fibers with my bare hand. It was a real challenge to install the new backing board up in the same spot, and reinforced other rotted lumber.
The tile and thickset and wire lath were almost 3" total thickness. I am not looking forward to enlarging that hole.
At one time there must have been a wall mount sink there, because two of the holes are about an inch ABOVE the old pedestal sink. I wanted something to cover those two holes, in addition to the big one I cut out.
I can fit a 20" sink cabinet in that space, and I actually had one there, but it didn't look right. The right edge of that sink cabinet would be only an inch or so from the left edge of the tub, don't like that narrow slot there, and a pedestal sink is a "better fit" there. In addition, there is a tenant waiting to move in and she wanted a pedestal sink and even though I didn't promise, I said I would "try my absolute best", there are other reasons as well.
I see a lot of places where people are adding "backsplash" on top of the pedestal sinks, such as:
So I think what I am visualizing is a piece of something slightly wider than the sink, starting at say 4" above the sink running all the way to the floor. It will cover all the holes, large and small.
I tend to agree with you that plywood is a bad idea. It came to mind because it would be easy to do. I was thinking a piece of finished plywood with an exposed edge with several coats of poly...but it probably will not work in the long run from exposure to moisture.
Alternatively, I could take a piece of cement board, 20" wide by 36" high, secure to the studs (furred out), and lay while glossy ceramic tiles from edge to edge, and put same color bullnose all the way around the edge, then install the sink over it.
How about either a piece of stainless steel sheet, or a piece of that plastic wall paneling stuff that gets used in gas station bathrooms?
The stainless may need a machine shop to put the big holes for the supply and drain pipes in it. You can drill the mounting holes in it yourself, but you need a brand new drill bit, some oil, and patience.
The plastic wall paneling can probably be cut and drilled with tools you already have.
Failing that, put a piece of cement board or moisture-resistant drywall in the hole, and patch with some more 4x4 tiles. If you can't get a close match to those green ones, get some of those fancy tiles that have curlicues and stuff printed on them and show it off completely. :D
Not sure what you mean by "gas station bathroom plastic wall panel". Is it some sort of fiberglass stuff?
If there is a sheet of some homogeneous material say 3/8"-3/4" thick, with a finish that comes close to the pedestal sink white ceramic, it can be made into looking like part of the sink assembly.
Blue Springs, MO · Member since 2015 · 481 posts · 313 votes
9y
@Sam Leon Apparently the right term is "FRP", fiberglass reinforced plastic. This is the kind of stuff I am thinking of http://www.marlite.com/designer-wall-systems-stand... but there is more than one manufacturer; Home Depot sells a similar panel. It's only 3/32" thick, though. You can get plastic trim for the edges. Usually it has a pebble or wrinkle finish, but smooth finish panels are at least listed in the catalog.
Flipper · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 218 posts · 345 votes
9y
@SamLeon I finally have it.
Use a piece of thick composite shower surround material, as big as you want it. You can get stuff that looks almost exactly like 1 cm stone. You cut it with a masonry blade in a circular saw, and sand a nice rounded edge on it all the way around. Construction adhesive glues it to the wall, but I'd still fur out those studs and screw it in so I could have it as an access panel.
The only reason I thought about this is that I just got a new Kohler Choreograph shower surround.
You should be able to find leftover composite shower surround material at your nearest recycled-materials supply place. Barring that , you could order a new panel from HD or Lowes, but that will be pricey.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
Home depot now has FRP "bead board". I think I'd use sika marine adhesive and glue it up on top of all that green tile then paint it a color you like. I'd use 1x4 to trim the top. Then add pretty hooks for towel hangers. You could cut out for the soap dish and caulk around it if you didn't want to remove it.
Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
9y
@Matt R. @Account Closed thanks for the ideas. I will go check out either the FRP and composite surround panel and see if either may provide the look I am thinking about. If it can be smooth and white so it's close to the white pedestal sink, I think it can actually be made to look like a design and not a bad patch.
my plan B would be to furr out the studs to the finished tiles, then put on a cement board the width of the sink from bottom to 4" above the sink, secured with screws to the studs. Then either tile with 4" white tiles, or two pieces of large 24X24 white porcelain tiles cut to match the size I need, and bullnose around the raised tiled panel. It would be a real pain to make those supply line and drain holes through porcelain tiles though, need diamond hole saws and lots of patience.
Flipper · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 218 posts · 345 votes
9y
@Sam Leon Good luck, Sam! With either FRP or composite surround panel you'll be able to get away with a cheap carbide hole saw set from Harbor Freight.
BTW, really good to meet you. Just not enough rental runners here doing it the hands-on fixer old-fashioned blood, sweat, tears, and toil way. I tell people my business plan is almost exactly the same as my grandfather's, and they look at me funny, but hey, my grandfather came to this country with nothing and died a millionaire.
Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
9y
@Account Closed
I just came back to this project while I was fixing up the framing at another property.
I went to look at the FRP at the Home Depot and Lowes. They are too thin (shower pan liner thin) for what I am thinking.
I also attempted to find a piece of those Kohler choreograph panel you mentioned so I can see/touch it to get a feel of the texture, finish etc...surprise to find that no one seems to have it in stock to look at, not even a small sample of it.
In the mean time, I found that they stock 2'x4' marine grade polymer sheets in 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" thicknesses. They can be cut, drilled, sanded with standard wood working tools.
Although I don't know what it would look like if I put it through my table saw and rip a few inches off it, will I be able to finish the edge by sanding it or will it look like crap LOL.
Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
9y
I do have a set of carbide hole saw from Harbor Freight. Used it once on ceramic tiles.
For regular hole saws I also had a Harbor Freight set but it takes forever to cut a hole through 2X4s, meanwhile I have a set of Milwaukee hole saw dated back to the 1960s that I picked up at a tool sale by a retired carpenter and he wanted $5 LOL. That thing works despite it's age would chew through a 2X4 in about 15 seconds with a clean hole. They just don't make them like they used to.
Flipper · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 218 posts · 345 votes
9y
@Sam Leon If you look at the directions for the polymer they encourage using a router to finish the edges. If you have a router mounted to a table that should work nicely. They say that sandpaper is only recommended in very fine grades.
On the other hand, you can try putting in a simple bevel instead of a bullnose profile. with a table saw. I personally haven't had much luck with that.
You can try building product reuse places for composite shower surround panel. They get pricey.
Here's my last idea -- get the 1/2 in. polymer panel and do up a frame for it in wood.
I'm putting in a pedestal sink in the bathroom of our latest rental renovation. Not working well. There's an arrangement with combination screw/bolts and a cap nut, and I'm doing it over a tile backing. Plus that, the faucet this pedestal sink is a widespread, so there's just a lot of hoses and parts that make accessing the cap not difficult. Not happy with what a PITA it all is. Good luck with yours!
Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
8y
Just wanted to provide an update on what I end up doing on this old thread.
A recap of the issues, DOZENS of drilled holes from various sinks over the years, rotted out backing board and sole plate from termite damages, plumbing reconfiguration, electrical wiring etc...required me to cut a hole on the hole through this 2.5" thick tile/concrete lath layer. So this was my starting point.
Initially I planned on getting a vanity to conceal this, then I changed my mind back to a pedestal sink.
Anyways, the backing board was completely destroyed by termites, and I was able the left over wood bits by hand.
New backing board had to be fitted between the existing studs and slowly tapped into place through the hole and up. Then secured with long screws.
After all the plumbing reconfigurations, electrical wire fishing, and framing repair, this is what I end up with.
Next, I bought from a tile store two pieces of 11.5"WX33"H white porcelain tiles. I measured and drilled the holes for the drain and supply lines, and secured the tiles to the wood framing behind with two screws. These tiles are hard to cut, had to use diamond hole saw bits.
I happen to have ten left over glass tiles from another job, and they fit right between the top of the tiles and the bottom of soap dishes, the color kind of fit so I said, why not...
Then I installed the new sink, and this is what I end up with.
The edges are caulked, so if I ever need to get to that hole again it's very easy to move the tiles out of the way. All the screw holes are covered up. Turned out OK.