How would I find a manager for my flips?

38 Replies

Maybe 3 years down the road, I would want to take a more hands-off approach and find someone to handle the day-to-day part of the job. Currently, I am there every day and doing a lot of the work myself.

Where would I find someone reliable for this? Obviously, the risk of theft is high. If there's no one in my immediate social circle that fits the bill, where would I look? Do people use LinkedIn for this these days?

I’m considering this and would probably promote my carpenter into this position if done so. He’s there enough he sees the daily operation.

Is this an employee you anticipate hiring? If so will he be full time on the projects all day every day? It would be best to promote, but you would need to trust that person with "management". You might be able to find someone with an REI interest looking for a mentor who is willing to come on and manage for you. The biggest risk you run there is him/her not staying long if they can branch out on their own.

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Originally posted by Account Closed:

This will probably offend a few people but I made a career out of offending people.

If you are so lazy that you have to hire someone to manage a simple residential construction project, than it is my humble opinion, you do not deserve to be involved in a residential construction project!

 Its not lazy, its called delegating.  And its called a business.  When he is required to be there everyday its not a business, its a job.  There is a big difference between a job and a business.  I know when I am swinging a hammer Im doing $15-$20hr work.  When Im doing research and due diligence on new prospective properties to buy more Im doing $100hr+ work.  Sounds like an easy decision to make where to spend my time.

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Originally posted by Account Closed:

This will probably offend a few people but I made a career out of offending people.

If you are so lazy that you have to hire someone to manage a simple residential construction project, than it is my humble opinion, you do not deserve to be involved in a residential construction project!

 My dad's boss makes $60 million/year and he only shows up 2 days per week.

Originally posted by Account Closed:

This will probably offend a few people but I made a career out of offending people.

If you are so lazy that you have to hire someone to manage a simple residential construction project, than it is my humble opinion, you do not deserve to be involved in a residential construction project!

 No offense but you are focused on tasks that aren't the highest and best use of your time. Managing a jobsite isn't intellectually difficult. Finding the deals and setting up a business, that is where most fall short. 

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Originally posted by Account Closed:

@Christopher B.

The iPhone is a force multiplier. 

 Doesn't matter..

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Account Closed as someone who does a lot of the work on his flips, I see both sides. I like the Project Management side of the business, hiring my subs, being on the job site, and even doing the work that I enjoy (trim work, cabinet install, tile, paint, etc...). With that said, it will be hard to argue that the most successful REIs are the ones who are more or less hands off, running their business and performing on the job. The highest of the most successful probably don't even find deals anymore, or sign contracts, they delegate that work to someone else as well. This might not be that path everyone in this business will take (I'm not sure I want to go back to being behind a desk) but to call those people lazy because they are hiring out managing the job site is probably incorrect, these people are probably successful enough at their business they don't need to be at the job site.

Originally posted by Account Closed:

@Christopher B.

Actually, it does. Let's go deeper into my earlier comment, but realize that I'm talking with two masters degrees in engineering. 

Finding deals and signing purchase and sales agreements is easily accomplished from an iPhone. After-all, it's a handheld computer that is 1000 times more powerful than what we used to send guys to the moon. Where guys get raked over the coals and not even know it, is after the deed is signed and the hangover lifts. Why is this? 

If one were to look at the quality of workers who preform the same task, for example, an electrician, the pay and quality of work drops SIGNIFICANTLY from industrial to commercial to residential. Residential attracts is lowest skill labor pool. Sure, there are some decent guys in residential but within residential, there are also different classes with custom homes at the top and your rental handyman at the bottom.  It's reality but they are very good at making themselves look good and look busy.

There are countless examples in the forums of projects with a basic understanding of reality and (oh no, I'm going to say the t-word) TIME, would have yielded a 100%-200% savings in renovation costs! I had to install a seat-belt wearing a hard-hat because I was falling out of my chair so much!  

I don't know about anyone else, but driving by in the morning to check on the boys for small talk over a few $1 McDonald's breakfast burritos is time well spent. After all, I drive an old diesel truck so if no one else agrees with me, that's fine but I'll still be making calls and signing purchase and sales agreement while rolling trusses, three-stories up, with my iPhone and smiling the entire time!

 A smart phone also could allow me to talk to or even video chat with the manager live any time I want.

Maybe I want to take a vacation and don't want my business on hold? Deals are e-mailed to me daily, but I think I would at least have to give the earnest deposit and sign title papers in person.

Risk of theft is an obvious issue with not being on site, but they should just know that I will prosecute.

Originally posted by @Christopher B. :
Originally posted by @Kyle K.:

This will probably offend a few people but I made a career out of offending people.

If you are so lazy that you have to hire someone to manage a simple residential construction project, than it is my humble opinion, you do not deserve to be involved in a residential construction project!

 No offense but you are focused on tasks that aren't the highest and best use of your time. Managing a jobsite isn't intellectually difficult. Finding the deals and setting up a business, that is where most fall short. 

 I actually find the most difficult part to be the repairs themselves. Even if they're not necessarily difficult, they might be boring and time consuming like tile or trash clean up.

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@Patrick Philip Intellectually the job site work is not that difficult. Admittedly, getting things done sometimes defies standard protocols. The downside of construction. I agree in that the most frustrating thing in my business is getting work done at the quality and pace I want done. I have simply grown tired of managing jobs and will be happy to hand-off those duties to a well paid PM by the end of 2018. Then I will spend my time on other aspects of the business, in addition to other businesses. 

Account Closed No offense is taken. Everyone has their own way of doing things. If being on the job site is what works for you then keep on rockin. There is no right or wrong way for someone to run their business, it is a personal decision. 

Originally posted by @Christopher B. :

@Patrick Philip Intellectually the job site work is not that difficult. Admittedly, getting things done sometimes defies standard protocols. The downside of construction. I agree in that the most frustrating thing in my business is getting work done at the quality and pace I want done. I have simply grown tired of managing jobs and will be happy to hand-off those duties to a well paid PM by the end of 2018. Then I will spend my time on other aspects of the business, in addition to other businesses. 

Account Closed No offense is taken. Everyone has their own way of doing things. If being on the job site is what works for you then keep on rockin. There is no right or wrong way for someone to run their business, it is a personal decision. 

 How did you find your manager? Did you promote from within?

Of course, if I used reputable GC's, I would have much less to worry about, but I think they would charge too much.

For us personally it would almost be impossible.  It takes 3 of us.

Originally posted by @Patrick Philip :
Originally posted by @Christopher B.:

@Patrick Philip

 How did you find your manager? Did you promote from within?

Of course, if I used reputable GC's, I would have much less to worry about, but I think they would charge too much.

I haven't hired one yet. Look to have a PM in place by the end of the year. To find one, well that is easier said than done obviously. I have a friend that is a PM for a local builder and knows other PM's. Hopefully that will lead to something, if not I will work my network, supply house salesman, and advertise if I need to. 

Originally posted by @Christopher B. :
Originally posted by @Patrick Philip:
Originally posted by @Christopher B.:

@Patrick Philip

 How did you find your manager? Did you promote from within?

Of course, if I used reputable GC's, I would have much less to worry about, but I think they would charge too much.

I haven't hired one yet. Look to have a PM in place by the end of the year. To find one, well that is easier said than done obviously. I have a friend that is a PM for a local builder and knows other PM's. Hopefully that will lead to something, if not I will work my network, supply house salesman, and advertise if I need to. 

 I don't think I could ever trust anyone with access to my bank account, obviously. I would still handle all purchases and deliveries. I actually kind of enjoy it.

But I would like to be able to leave workers in the house unattended from time to time.

I have access to my security system through my phone. I wish I could have cameras on my phone, but that's impossible without Internet service at the flip house. And who needs another holding cost?

I did find some really cool hidden cameras that would make James Bond jealous. One looks like a screw, another like an electrical outlet.

2 ideas

1) Ask existing employees to apply for a management position for slight raise or additional paid hours/overtime.

2) Is there a college or technical school near by? Offer summer/fall/spring apprenticeships to find quality applicants

Originally posted by @Patrick Philip :
Originally posted by @Christopher B.:
Originally posted by @Patrick Philip:
Originally posted by @Christopher B.:

@Patrick Philip

 How did you find your manager? Did you promote from within?

Of course, if I used reputable GC's, I would have much less to worry about, but I think they would charge too much.

I haven't hired one yet. Look to have a PM in place by the end of the year. To find one, well that is easier said than done obviously. I have a friend that is a PM for a local builder and knows other PM's. Hopefully that will lead to something, if not I will work my network, supply house salesman, and advertise if I need to. 

 I don't think I could ever trust anyone with access to my bank account, obviously. I would still handle all purchases and deliveries. I actually kind of enjoy it.

But I would like to be able to leave workers in the house unattended from time to time.

I have access to my security system through my phone. I wish I could have cameras on my phone, but that's impossible without Internet service at the flip house. And who needs another holding cost?

I did find some really cool hidden cameras that would make James Bond jealous. One looks like a screw, another like an electrical outlet.

Yes, I would never let an employee have direct access to my business checking account. 

I will still be a part of the budget and creating SOW's. I will dictate all finish materials and let the PM handle the rest. PM will have a capped CC and access to trade accounts. Purchases will be reviewed and confirmed weekly in-house by auditing against receipts, bookkeeper records, and budgets. 

You don't leave workers unattended? Not sure if a security system would help, never tried. I don't stand over top of my crews but managing sites is often like babysitting and gets old. That goes for any level of job too. A friend is a PM for a luxury home builder. He calls it babysitting. Talking to someone yesterday and her fiancee was a PM for a commercial builder that works on airports, etc and he says the same, babysitting. The only people that don't think contractors need baby sitting are the contractors. Hence my desire to hire a full-time PM. 

@Account Closed
Do you have a masters degree in being a dick?

Stating your option is one completely welcome thing to anyone that wants to learn. Insulting a poster and calling them lazy because you think you know the best and apparently only way to do things is naive and not very well thought out.

Do you know what the main difference is between mom and pop REI and those that grow a serious business? They put up the tools and delegate.

Originally posted by @Michael J. :

Kyle K.
Do you have a masters degree in being a dick?

Stating your option is one completely welcome thing to anyone that wants to learn. Insulting a poster and calling them lazy because you think you know the best and apparently only way to do things is naive and not very well thought out.

Do you know what the main difference is between mom and pop REI and those that grow a serious business? They put up the tools and delegate.

 Yea but I still think it's unwise to delegate needlessly. I should still expect to work 7 days/week.

I shouldn't jump the gun on delegating just yet.

But I did say 3 years down the road in the original post.

@Patrick Philip

I agree, that is the way to do it. When the situation calls for it and your time can be spent growing the business it’s the right move. Some people get stuck doing everything themselves and have a hard time breaking free from it. I grew up as a big time DIY’er so I have had to have a big mentality change over the years but it’s impossible to scale past a certain point without delegating certain things.

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