Would you hire a guy with one leg to do your cabinets?

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Would you hire a guy with one leg to do your cabinets?

Benjamin Cowles
Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes

He seems to know his stuff, has worked on boats all his life, was able to lay out for me in detail a couple options to redo my kitchen and bath cabinets for $12/hr and he'd use me or someone for grunt work. He lives out of his boat on ss and lost his leg from a motorcycle accident and is on pain meds and could use some money to sail off to wherever the wind takes him next and I could have a part in that lol. He seems a little desperate and kinda bugging me with over friendliness which I imagine is because of his physical challenges, I'm guessing but he seems friendly and skilled enough and we'd be working together replacing doors and refinishing/painting that formica covered composite wood stuff the boxes are made of and replacing the (horizontal) particle board. I've gotten professional quotes so it looks like I could save a lot. Would you?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
8y

He's missing a leg and lives on a boat? Sounds like a pirate and you don't want to hire pirates to hang cabinets. Don't ask me how I know this.

Seriously, his disability has nothing to do with anything. Living on a boat and working for $12 an hour is a pretty big red flag for me. If you think a professional is expensive, try hiring an amateur.

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  • Charlie DiLisio
    Investor · Lake Worth, FL · Member since 2014 · 378 posts · 184 votes
    8y

    I'm with Manolo and Fradel on this one.  Give him a shot and try him out.  Tell him you only need him for a few days and see what he can do.  Good experience for you as well.  I have used many persons in the past and have found that someone willing to do the work and performs well deserves a shot.  As an aside if he works out you can use him from time to time.  He may be on disability and can only work for cash.  Good luck.

    1Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    "How to get a free house ."   Be on pain meds , get someone trying to do something on the cheap , get hurt and sue the hell out of them , take the house as payment . 

    2Reply
  • Benjamin Cowles
    OP
    Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    "How to get a free house ."   Be on pain meds , get someone trying to do something on the cheap , get hurt and sue the hell out of them , take the house as payment . 

    Oh jesus. That situation is what I need more feedback on. 

    I just hired a lady now too to do my direct mail, $10/hr but I had to drop it to $5 cuz I can't afford the training required, which I've stipulated can only work if she can get it by so many hrs(30-50) otherwise she'd have to wait til I get someone on the kitchen/baths to get decent pay or continue going to the labor pool and she's living on a friend's couch and just told me on her way out if she can't figure it out she's going to -I don't even want to say it. I did put in my Craigslist ad an aside offer of help I just thought would be a good thing to do, no free money or housing or too much time but just maybe be there a little for someone in need. Boy does the expression careful what you wish for apply. I think the pirate is more stable for work. And I do feel for this poor lady. I think I ought take that statement out of my ad tho. I'm not ready to help anyone atm

    0Reply
  • Benjamin Cowles
    OP
    Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes
    8y

    What is the proper way if any to safeguard yourself from such lawsuits? Seems like the consensus would be no 100% way other than hire someone with insurance. Maybe temp insurance? No, who'd offer that to a guy with one leg on pain meds. Is this "how to get a free house" trick common?

    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    @Benjamin Cowles When you hire craigs list or people with hard luck stories and pay them cash . YOU have become their EMPLOYER .  You now have to have a workmans comp policy , insurance to cover yourself , take taxes out of their pay , pay unemployment insurance , just for starters.

    If any of these people claim they got hurt on your job , its ALL ON YOU . You are the employer . They will get an attorney and you WILL lose . 

    Druggies and drunks play this game quite frequently . They will play you like a fiddle 

    2Reply
  • Benjamin Cowles
    OP
    Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    @Benjamin Cowles When you hire craigs list or people with hard luck stories and pay them cash . YOU have become their EMPLOYER .  You now have to have a workmans comp policy , insurance to cover yourself , take taxes out of their pay , pay unemployment insurance , just for starters.

    If any of these people claim they got hurt on your job , its ALL ON YOU . You are the employer . They will get an attorney and you WILL lose . 

    Druggies and drunks play this game quite frequently . They will play you like a fiddle 

    No yeah, just as a newbie cheapo with some inheritance money to spend I haven't even thought of becoming a legit employer until I make some money. But just as a homeowner with 'guests' over, what are the differences between the risks? Shamefully I'm totally ignorant on this and after submitting this post I'll continue to research... 

    0Reply
  • Derrick E.
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    The guy I hire to do all of my stuff has something wrong with one of his legs. He's one of the hardest working guys I could find. I found him on Craigslist believe it or not. This was a year ago now and I haven't used anyone but him since then. 

    I do a lot of work on the house myself, but anything I can't do or don't want to do I hire him. Sometimes I hire him to do a big job and have him do a bunch of small things too. All while I am still working or making another run to Lowes. Sometimes its just because I don't have the tools myself. He's awesome though. I couldn't ask for anyone better to be honest. He's a small time guy with no steady employees. Does have insurance and license. He just moved back to the area to be closer to their grand-kids. 

    1Reply
  • Kevin SantosPro Member
    Realtor · Audubon, NJ · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 30 votes
    8y

    I'd 100% give him a shot. Frankly if I was in your area I'd be asking who he was so I could give him work. If he's struggling to find work as you say he is, he might become an invaluable resource for you and you're helping someone who needs it more than the average joe. 

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Benjamin Cowles:

    He seems to know his stuff, has worked on boats all his life, was able to lay out for me in detail a couple options to redo my kitchen and bath cabinets for $12/hr and he'd use me or someone for grunt work. He lives out of his boat on ss and lost his leg from a motorcycle accident and is on pain meds and could use some money to sail off to wherever the wind takes him next and I could have a part in that lol. He seems a little desperate and kinda bugging me with over friendliness which I imagine is because of his physical challenges, I'm guessing but he seems friendly and skilled enough and we'd be working together replacing doors and refinishing/painting that formica covered composite wood stuff the boxes are made of and replacing the (horizontal) particle board. I've gotten professional quotes so it looks like I could save a lot. Would you?

     Did you say "is on pain meds" ? 

    1) Will he show up to work after the first check?

    2) Will he be running power equipment?  

    3) Do you have lots of insurance?

    1Reply
  • Grant Rothenburger
    Investor · Taylor Mill, KY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 964 votes
    8y

    @Benjamin Cowles Not saying to hire or not hire him. But if it were me, I would look at it like he had two legs. Would you hire him then?

    0Reply
  • Benjamin Cowles
    OP
    Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes
    8y

    1) like, might he not be able to physically continue? 

    2) like dangerous ones? I assume router and table saw at min. 

    3) Ehem, I plead the 5th.

    0Reply
  • Benjamin Cowles
    OP
    Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Grant Rothenburger:

    @Benjamin Cowles Not saying to hire or not hire him. But if it were me, I would look at it like he had two legs. Would you hire him then?

    Not too much would make a big difference to me until I work with him really. I tend to fall into bad situations though being nice to down-and-out'ers half of who end up preying on my soul(literally!) so I have to try to be a cynical racist bigot just to offset from being an equal opportunity all accepting peace loving hippy. 

    0Reply
  • Grant Rothenburger
    Investor · Taylor Mill, KY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 964 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Benjamin Cowles:
    Originally posted by @Grant Rothenburger:

    @Benjamin Cowles Not saying to hire or not hire him. But if it were me, I would look at it like he had two legs. Would you hire him then?

    Not too much would make a big difference to me until I work with him really. I tend to fall into bad situations though being nice to down-and-out'ers half of who end up preying on my soul(literally!) so I have to try to be a cynical racist bigot just to offset from being an equal opportunity all accepting peace loving hippy. 

    I get it. I'm just saying to think of him like he has two legs and make the judgement on that. Which plays to you being too nice too because now you're not being sympathetic to his situation.

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Benjamin Cowles:

    He seems to know his stuff, has worked on boats all his life, was able to lay out for me in detail a couple options to redo my kitchen and bath cabinets for $12/hr and he'd use me or someone for grunt work. He lives out of his boat on ss and lost his leg from a motorcycle accident and is on pain meds and could use some money to sail off to wherever the wind takes him next and I could have a part in that lol. He seems a little desperate and kinda bugging me with over friendliness which I imagine is because of his physical challenges, I'm guessing but he seems friendly and skilled enough and we'd be working together replacing doors and refinishing/painting that formica covered composite wood stuff the boxes are made of and replacing the (horizontal) particle board. I've gotten professional quotes so it looks like I could save a lot. Would you?

     About 95% of that paragraph you wrote is irrelevant. Do you need someone to hang cabinets? If yes does the dude know how to hang cabinets? If yes, is he priced competitively? If yes, then yes.

    0Reply
  • Todd Dexheimer
    Rental Property Investor · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    I would hire the right contractor that is missing a leg, an eye and 2 fingers, but this guy doesn't sound like a contractor, he sounds like the guy "living in a van, down by the river" (or in this case a boat). Use licensed contractors that do it for a living. If this is a hobby or a charity opportunity, then hire the guy. 

    1Reply
  • Cara Lonsdale
    Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    The 1 leg isn't even the part that jumps out at me....it's the "desperate" part that does.

    In theory, these are always the ones that you are most eager to want to hire so that you can "help" them while they help you.  However, this has historically never worked out well.

    My husband and I used to be bleeding hearts for some of these types of "helpers", but after we discovered 1 living in one of our projects (explained why he was taking so long to finish), and 1 who hired his wife and her friend to be his grunts (not the best idea for manual labor), and 1 who brought his dogs (yes plural) to our flip project where everything was sparkly new...and then wasn't because dog slabber was the new finish....we decided that we needed to save our bleeding hearts for passion projects that didn't involve our RE business.  

    And the common element of all of them was desperation.  AND all of them asked for money almost daily, which was usually more than the work they had finished for the day, but they all had some sad story about how they needed $X amount TODAY or else ......blah blah blah, fill in the blank.  It got to the point where they would then cut out because we had paid them more than what was left on the job.  It wasn't worth it to them to finish.

    1 big part of that was taking out the desperate people.  And it feels bad to do this at first.  However, it will be better for you in the long run.  You won't feel pressured at the end of the day (or even before) to give them money for work not yet finished, and they won't ask if they aren't desperate.

    And wait.....did you say pain meds?  Ug.  Come on man.

    4Reply
  • Mark Hughes
    Rental Property Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2018 · 288 posts · 117 votes
    8y
    Why not. Does he have any references of his work?
    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    I fell for it myself a long time ago, I hired the same "sob story" kind of guy and gave him a week's worth of work to do. I came back and the work was done and I gave him his money. The following day as I was figuring the next step to do on the property a guy dropped by asking for the guy I had hired. Turned out the guy I hired didn't do the work, he hired this other guy who now wanted to get paid. The first guy was nowhere to be found and the second guy was just a honest grunt. So, I ended up paying him too. I didn't save much money on that one. But integrity counts. I hired the second guy for a couple of jobs after that. ;-0

    0Reply
  • Sharon PowellPro Member
    Realtor · La Vernia, TX · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 124 votes
    8y
    You’ve had the whole spectrum of responses. I think it’s awesome that you feel for the guy and want to help give him a boost up in the world. Just ask yourself if your business can handle whatever the outcome is. Things could go really right- your project could be done well and you’ll have genuinely helped someone out. Or it could go terribly wrong. I’ve got my own stories to add to the others on here, stories of being burned by people who said they knew how to do stuff, but then turned out to be either substance-abusing con artists or they just did as much as they felt like doing and then disappeared, leaving the job half done. I’ve even had the guy hiring a good guy and then stiffing him so I had to pay him scenario happen. I’d say think of the worst thing that could happen and decide if it’s worth the risk to your business.
    0Reply
  • Bjorik Mutize
    Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 530 posts · 398 votes
    8y

    Original Poster: Out of curiosity, what was your follow up after the feedback from this thread? 

    0Reply
  • Ryan Kirk
    Investor · Hamilton, ON · Member since 2016 · 59 posts · 31 votes
    8y
    Just trying to imagine hopping up a ladder with a drill in my hand. People are amazing. You seem pretty worried about the legal side of it. Make sure you put everything in writing and have insurance. Otherwise you'll end up in court without a leg to stand on.
    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    Would you rent to someone with a sob story ?  

    0Reply
  • Jerryll Noorden
    Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    This has nothing to do with judging someone by his disabilities. Nothing to do with ethical or politically correct reasons.

    2 contractors, both same years in industries and both have identical knowledge and skills.

    One has one leg the other 2.

    I am hiring the one with 2 legs, because he will probably be faster, less likely to get injured on the job, etc. etc.

    These are just facts. This is not some fairy tale test where the disabled one will magically turn into a prince and cause a climax in the story line with a happy ending.

    You need to get that kitchen done in time and on budget without any mishaps. Looking at purely he numbers the better choice is jire the 2 legged guy (because all contractors are male)!

    1Reply
  • Judy W.
    Sarasota, FL · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    I agree with everything @Aaron McGinnis said. My experience is desperate people do desperate things and can have a negative effect on you.

    DO NOT HIRE THIS GUY for the following reasons:

    1) He "seems" to know his stuff.

    2) He's on pain meds - can have an addiction problem.

    3) The liability of him not carrying insurance. 

    4) Listen to your gut feeling - I think it's trying to tell you not to hire this guy.

    Don't let money cloud your judgment. 

    Good Luck - Keep us posted!

    1Reply
  • Jason D.
    Rental Property Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y
    @Benjamin Cowles I think his disability is the least of my concerns. First, what type of workmanship are you getting for $12/hr? Second, being desperate is not a good quality for someone you want doing work on your house. If he was good, his disability wouldn't be a factor for him finding work. I wouldn't hire him because of many red flags, his disability not being one of them.
    0Reply
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