Would you hire a guy with one leg to do your cabinets?

I would check his references (just like you should with every other potential employee, contractor) and hire him based on that information, just like every other potential employee.

By not using a consistent vetting process for every potential employee or contractor, you open yourself up to DISCRIMINATION liability, which could put your out of business very quickly.

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

Let's all be honest what is happening here. When you are paying someone $12 an hour, it is a cash type deal. No different than people who hire Mexicans. Pay them under market, under the table, nobody pays taxes. They get no benefits. You hire legitimately and you pay $25+ per hour.

As far as pain medications, half the guys I know in construction have been on pain medications at one time or another. Working hard labor is hell on your body, so injuries are common. Prescription pain meds are ridiculously common. Odds are good most of you have come in contact with someone today who is on these meds and you don't even know it. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but you would have to be living in a hole not to be aware of the nationwide epidemic we are facing right now. They are not just junkies. It is soccer moms and business professionals too.

4 Reply

Ryan Dossey

Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Seriously can't believe this is even a question.

2 Reply

Account Closed

Specialist · Gaithersburg, MD · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 17 votes

What are your criteria for hiring any tradesperson ? "X" out all the distractions and hire accordingly ! Be a philanthropist after the fact

OP

Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes

Originally posted by @Mark Hughes:

Why not. Does he have any references of his work?

I'll definitely check. Thanks

Thank you all for your helpful polarized responses. Very generous. Great forum here. Can't wait till I get so busy doing this stuff I can occasionally stop by on breaks to assist others starting out with my experience

Megan Hirlehey

Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 140 posts · 119 votes

You had me until "pain meds" (sorry if someone posted this already, I didn't read all the way through).. not saying it's a deal-breaker, I'd just be super careful and already have a solid back-up plan in place. If he's on pain meds and "could use some money," coupled with the over friendly/desperate thing, I'd be worried about an addiction. One day's worth of pay might be all he needs to get his next fix and disappear again and then you're back to square one without a cabinet guy.

Megan Hirlehey

Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 140 posts · 119 votes

Also wouldn't give him money upfront to buy the materials, due to the possible addiction thing

OP

Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes

Originally posted by @Ryan Dossey:

Seriously can't believe this is even a question.

Well not everyone has that superior sense and knowledge you have. And look at the different answers

OP

Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes

Originally posted by @Megan Hirlehey:

Also wouldn't give him money upfront to buy the materials, due to the possible addiction thing

No, I don't need him to "buy" anything but what he'd need for himself to work

Jessica Herndon

Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 20 posts · 4 votes

I absolutely would hire him and see how things go. Like with any other laborer, I would check his references and I would want to see other work that he has completed. Good luck.

OP

Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes

Originally posted by @Jason D.:

@Benjamin Cowles I think his disability is the least of my concerns. First, what type of workmanship are you getting for $12/hr? Second, being desperate is not a good quality for someone you want doing work on your house. If he was good, his disability wouldn't be a factor for him finding work. I wouldn't hire him because of many red flags, his disability not being one of them.

I don't know he's "desperate". Maybe the wrong word, but he did exhibit good standard sales skills which I tend to interpret as needy prejudicely when they may just naturally Hustle which is a good quality itself. He seemed pretty chill on his boat with his cat and prosthetic leg collection. Lol, I noticed one hanging in the tree above we were sitting under talking. His wood work on his boat was great. I think it's worth a shot. I gotta get insurance first though

3 Reply

Carlos Gonzalez

Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 346 posts · 170 votes

Hire the guy!!! Give the man a chance! If he fails then you replace the guy.

Sam Marcos

Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 49 posts · 29 votes

I see a lot of people saying hire him. That is fine but I'd do it knowing it was a charity/humanitarian thing. The red flag for me was the pain meds because I've been involved in a business deal with someone who started on legit prescribed pain meds and then slipped into black market pain meds, and then into the street alternative (heroine). Its a VERY slippery slope. People's tolerance increases and the the pain starts to come back and doctors are afraid to keep raising the dosage so then people start to buy them from whoever they can. Then it becomes a habit that gets very very expensive and heroine because the only way to feel "normal" without having thousands of dollars to spend.

Proceed with caution. He shouldn't have keys to the house. He shouldn't have materials for the kitchen in his position. None of your money, credit cards etc. You buy the materials, you do the work, he helps you and does his part, he gets paid for the day/week/month whatever. Payment AFTER work. If he proves to be reliable down the road you can re evaluate the trust factor.

Trust no one who takes pain pills and lives on a boat and "needs the money". (nothing to do with one leg whatsoever, plenty disabled people are very skilled and awesome people).

Loren Clive

Residential Real Estate Broker · Paia, HI · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 311 votes

the pain meds are a huge red flag. Don't do it!

Albert Ng

Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 221 votes

How did you get in contact with him? And referral or previous work? Maybe test him out first, and only hire if he know what he is doing. Also make sure there is a contract and one type of insurance. I’m cheap and hire amateurs a couple of times. Regret it every single time that I did.

Chang Hee Lee

Real Estate Broker · Champaign, IL · Member since 2017 · 49 posts · 19 votes

@Benjamin Cowles Is he working on your cabinets with his legs?

Leslie Howard

Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 0 votes

Why not make your assessment based on his work and/or reputation, not his perceived ability or disability?

Wendy Martin

Flipper/Rehabber · Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 1 vote

Just appalled at some of the responses here. If he lived on a boat I wouldn’t hire him? Just because he’s told you his situation and he’s less than confident about himself does not portray he’ll necessarily do a poor job. He’s hourly. Give him a two day window to see if your happy with his performance. Don’t ever judge someone because of disability and conjuncture. It appears it could be win win for both involved.

Warren Currier

Developer · Union Point, MA · Member since 2015 · 63 posts · 31 votes

Perhaps you can hire him to take you out on his boat and have a good time.

As for having someone working inside your home:

1) It's all on you when something goes wrong.

2) Who is paying the workman's comp?

3) What does your insurance company say about this?

Matthew Paul

Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

heres whats funny about this post . How many posts are there about being screwed over by a contractor ? Describing contractors as guys that on friday head to the bar or buy drugs . and now we have people saying give this guy a chance , a guy who values himself at $12 bucks an hour .

I am a licensed contractor , I would hire someone with a disability if they could do the work . The minute someone is on pain meds legal or illegal . He is gone . TOO MUCH LIABILITY

2 Reply

Delshon C.

New York, NY · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 23 votes

If he had a great reputation and had competitive prices yeah. Why discriminate based on looks alone.

Valerie Hiscoe

Investor · Richmond, BC · Member since 2013 · 316 posts · 133 votes

Carpenters who work on boats are usually highly skilled because they'e often not working with square edges. If he has experience like that, he'd be more than capable of looking after your cabinetry.

I'd hate for you to be prejudice against someone for their disability. I don't think an insurance company could legally be able to be so therefore your liability should be contained within the bounds of anyone else doing the job. If it weren't for this newfound awareness of liability and release, you might not otherwise thought of it, so you can thank him for reminding you to protect yourself.

My brother lost an arm and I can safely promise you that he accomplishes twice as much because he tries twice as hard. But i can also promise you with a fair amount of certainty that if someone has been uprooted from their life and forced to rely on social services - they are going to be fairly desperate. Its got nothing to do with their skill level or personality - its that they dont have enough money to live. My brother is lucky because thats not the case but I would hate for him to be considered a charity case just because he's trying to earn a living. So there's that.

As per payment, I like to get an idea of how much something should cost, less materials (which I usually get myself) and set a payment plan - 10-20% for showing up the first day (which doesn't always happen), another 20-30% halfway through or so, 90% when it' done, and the final 10% a couple of weeks later when the things that nobody noticed were left undone have been completed to your satisfaction. Some people add bonuses and penalties for time constraints if those are of the highest priority. Keep in mind though, that if someone is desperate and inexperienced at giving estimates, they will probably lowball it. That's not good for either of you so get more than one estimate or an example of his working on something so you can get a realistic ballpark figure.

And write a contract for exactly what, where, when, how, and by whom, no matter who ends up doing the work. And if you'e going to hire someone licensed and insured, make sure you get proof of their license and insurance.

It sounds like the man you'e contemplating to have do this work also has some creative and design experience. Don't underestimate that because he may foresee problems or options that you might not. Having been a boater myself, I know that boats are, by necessity, usually well designed.

Best of luck with your renovation.

OP

Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes

Originally posted by @Wendy Martin:

Just appalled at some of the responses here. If he lived on a boat I wouldn’t hire him? Just because he’s told you his situation and he’s less than confident about himself does not portray he’ll necessarily do a poor job.
He’s hourly. Give him a two day window to see if your happy with his performance.
Don’t ever judge someone because of disability and conjuncture.
It appears it could be win win for both involved.

I try not to because even as the strapping physically presentable whole gentleman I can tidy myself up to I have many mental and physical challenges that people incorrectly ignorantly judge me by so I tend to look past surface issues but discrimination has an important purpose and is how we stay alive. I'm sure you've been burned before, and if you're doing real business, you gotta operate like one or a charity if you want but not both together right?

OP

Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2008 · 469 posts · 32 votes

Originally posted by @Valerie Hiscoe:

Carpenters who work on boats are usually highly skilled because they'e often not working with square edges. If he has experience like that, he'd be more than capable of looking after your cabinetry.

I'd hate for you to be prejudice against someone for their disability. I don't think an insurance company could legally be able to be so therefore your liability should be contained within the bounds of anyone else doing the job. If it weren't for this newfound awareness of liability and release, you might not otherwise thought of it, so you can thank him for reminding you to protect yourself.

My brother lost an arm and I can safely promise you that he accomplishes twice as much because he tries twice as hard. But i can also promise you with a fair amount of certainty that if someone has been uprooted from their life and forced to rely on social services - they are going to be fairly desperate. Its got nothing to do with their skill level or personality - its that they dont have enough money to live. My brother is lucky because thats not the case but I would hate for him to be considered a charity case just because he's trying to earn a living. So there's that.

As per payment, I like to get an idea of how much something should cost, less materials (which I usually get myself) and set a payment plan - 10-20% for showing up the first day (which doesn't always happen), another 20-30% halfway through or so, 90% when it' done, and the final 10% a couple of weeks later when the things that nobody noticed were left undone have been completed to your satisfaction. Some people add bonuses and penalties for time constraints if those are of the highest priority. Keep in mind though, that if someone is desperate and inexperienced at giving estimates, they will probably lowball it. That's not good for either of you so get more than one estimate or an example of his working on something so you can get a realistic ballpark figure.

And write a contract for exactly what, where, when, how, and by whom, no matter who ends up doing the work. And if you'e going to hire someone licensed and insured, make sure you get proof of their license and insurance.

It sounds like the man you'e contemplating to have do this work also has some creative and design experience. Don't underestimate that because he may foresee problems or options that you might not. Having been a boater myself, I know that boats are, by necessity, usually well designed.

Best of luck with your renovation.

Thank you yes, that was his main selling point on the almost 100% curved work and his boat was impressive. He put curved wood all over and inside it, did some good fiberglass custom work. Definitely seemed knowledgeable all about cabinets, had basic suggestions I wouldn't know like do floors last, and try not to work where others will be in the way. He said he wouldn't permit it. So he's got rules. You just never know peoples' situations or darker ulterior motives, which is a reflection of my life experience but I'm optimistic to take a chance. Will get insurance and pay daily to keep it simple

Charlie DiLisio

Investor · Lake Worth, FL · Member since 2014 · 378 posts · 184 votes

Benjamin, personally for all my flips the first thing I get is a rehab insurance policy. It is well worth the price and you are covered. I also pay cash and if I were you give him a shot and if need be pay him each day after the day's work. I have never had any problems and if you worry about everything that can happen get out of the business. It's a great business and you will learn with time and if you are serious you will prosper. Go for it. Be well!