Tax liens and Mortgage liens
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesTax liens and Mortgage liens
Most Popular Reply
Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesQuote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?
when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. TAX CERTS are a bizzness not something you do as a passive investor or someone like me who is busy with their core business.. thankfully it was only 30k
40 Replies
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
I am guilty of that.. not mortgage notes but tax liens those suckers are complicated .
- Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes2y1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real property
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest? - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. TAX CERTS are a bizzness not something you do as a passive investor or someone like me who is busy with their core business.. thankfully it was only 30k
- Lender · Charleston, SC · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?This definitely resonated with me. I've seen some posts both here on BP, in local FB groups, and heard comments in person corroborate this. I was at the Charleston county tax lien auction last year and actually had another bidder tell me that investing in tax liens was 100% risk free and that there was no way they could lose their money. I saw a local FB group post early this year from someone asking how to evict the homeowner from a home where the investor bought the lien a few months before. Crazy
- Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes2yJay, did you know John Beck?
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?
when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one every redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Jay, did you know John Beck?Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?
when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one every redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS.
does not ring a bell.. in my day there was my company and Southern investments as the two major fix and flip lenders in Jackson MS.. - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Patrick Roberts:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?This definitely resonated with me. I've seen some posts both here on BP, in local FB groups, and heard comments in person corroborate this. I was at the Charleston county tax lien auction last year and actually had another bidder tell me that investing in tax liens was 100% risk free and that there was no way they could lose their money. I saw a local FB group post early this year from someone asking how to evict the homeowner from a home where the investor bought the lien a few months before. Crazy
I had a lot in Charleston in contract that the owner had bought at tax sale it was a major ordeal to get clear title and he never could and we never closed.. it was off of America and Aiken st.. I had built a new build on Aiken First modern design on that side of town ;) - Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes2yJohn Beck was a guru back in the early 70s who did a lot of small time (self promoted ) stuff with tax liens/deeds, particularly in California. I met him when I was “on the circuit” with Jimmy Napier. He was a good guy, totally honest, and I bought a few good buys at tax sales after going through his material. We stayed in touch for about 10 years and then lost contact.
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Jay, did you know John Beck?Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?
when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one every redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS.
does not ring a bell.. in my day there was my company and Southern investments as the two major fix and flip lenders in Jackson MS..
in or about the early 2000s John got involved with one of those real estate guru marketing organizations out of Salt Lake City, and he became a mainstay of the late night informercial. Making wild claims about the easy riches available with no work and almost no capital. We concluded that John had gone over “to the other side” and sold out to become rich.
In 2012 John Beck was named in a lawsuit brought by the FTC, and was on the losing end of a $478 million judgement for defrauding 1 million investors! John left the courthouse after the verdict and was never seen again!. Rumor was that he had a Caribbean hideaway, and left with many $millions.
About 5 or 6 years ago I’m at a University of Michigan football game in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The guy sitting next to me introduces himself; his name is Lester Bird. Recognizing him, I ask and he confirms that he was the former Prime Minister of Antigua. (Lester was an alum of Michigan and in fact had been an NCAA track star at Michigan). We got to talking, and when he found out I was in real estate investing, he asked if I knew John Beck. Apparently, Lester Bird had been instrumental in getting John Beck residence status in Antigua.
5 billion people and yet a small world. 6 degrees of separation! - Investor · WNY/CNY/Adirondacks, New York State · Member since 2024 · 151 posts · 133 votes2y
It seems to me like most of the bidders have no idea what they are even bidding on, even with tax deed sales. It's usually not worth it to bid because the clueless people are driving the prices up.
Here's one for you. Tax deed auction last week there's a house in an economically depressed area in northern New York State (Clinton County). The pictures look pretty but I know the house and the area and it's in very bad shape and a very bad location.
It's accurately assessed for 45k next to the train tracks and has a 16 foot wide easement right through the property. The roof is collapsed and has been for at least 2-3 years which means there's damage throughout the house. It auctioned off to some online bidder for 30k! Maybe it would've been worth it at 5k, but 30K is crazy. What are people even thinking? The only explanation is that it's out-of-towners thinking Clinton County is in New York, so the land must be worth it? It's not.
- 2ySteve HodgdonPro MemberInvestor · Novato, CA · Member since 2015 · 432 posts · 321 votes
I've done some tax DEED purchases. Used Tax Title Services to get a policy that Old Republic would accept.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes2y
Exactly, i wonder how many people bid in Maryland expecting 12-18% on their money only to reliaze they are only making 3% based on their bids.
Or how many bid not realizing the $20,000 water bill was not included in the tax lien and has to be paid to record your tax sale deed.
Or that Google street view showed a building but it was demolished a few months before the sale.
Or that if you bid $80k for a property, foreclose, and sell it at $80k you will have lost about $20k
Of course I know and understand these risks. For me it is NOTES that scare the hell out of me. I appreciate your posts
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Don Konipol:
John Beck was a guru back in the early 70s who did a lot of small time (self promoted ) stuff with tax liens/deeds, particularly in California. I met him when I was “on the circuit” with Jimmy Napier. He was a good guy, totally honest, and I bought a few good buys at tax sales after going through his material. We stayed in touch for about 10 years and then lost contact.Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Jay, did you know John Beck?Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?
when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one every redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS.
does not ring a bell.. in my day there was my company and Southern investments as the two major fix and flip lenders in Jackson MS..
in or about the early 2000s John got involved with one of those real estate guru marketing organizations out of Salt Lake City, and he became a mainstay of the late night informercial. Making wild claims about the easy riches available with no work and almost no capital. We concluded that John had gone over “to the other side” and sold out to become rich.
In 2012 John Beck was named in a lawsuit brought by the FTC, and was on the losing end of a $478 million judgement for defrauding 1 million investors! John left the courthouse after the verdict and was never seen again!. Rumor was that he had a Caribbean hideaway, and left with many $millions.
About 5 or 6 years ago I’m at a University of Michigan football game in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The guy sitting next to me introduces himself; his name is Lester Bird. Recognizing him, I ask and he confirms that he was the former Prime Minister of Antigua. (Lester was an alum of Michigan and in fact had been an NCAA track star at Michigan). We got to talking, and when he found out I was in real estate investing, he asked if I knew John Beck. Apparently, Lester Bird had been instrumental in getting John Beck residence status in Antigua.
5 billion people and yet a small world. 6 degrees of separation!
Dave Del Dotto has a Winery across the street ( Atlas Peak Napa) from my home when I lived there. I always took my guest there for wine tasting in his Cellars .. eclectic guy and got to sit with him a few times and he regaled us with stories of being one of the first late night TV RE guru's .. he has done quite well in the wine bizz though.. And he does make a fine wine. - Rockwall, TX · Member since 2014 · 380 posts · 211 votes2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. TAX CERTS are a bizzness not something you do as a passive investor or someone like me who is busy with their core business.. thankfully it was only 30k
All that and the SC Hennepin Decision last year now causing states to re-write their laws so that if an investor does somehow end up converting a lien to a deed, that investor may be liable to tax defaulter for the difference between the lien and market value of the property, Tax Liens seem to be VERY MUCH a place where only the big money, interest investors can make it worthwhile.
Fortunately, Texas has "immediate" possession Tax Deeds so we keep our focus there.
- Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes2y
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
PREACH!!! your statement is 100% true. And it's those clueless that come and go every year but each year there is always just enough of them to bid everything too high or low depending on the state to make it a good deal for the rest of us. Each year there is new clueless to ruin it for the rest of us on an ongoing basis. - Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes2y
Quote from @Roy Oliphant:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. TAX CERTS are a bizzness not something you do as a passive investor or someone like me who is busy with their core business.. thankfully it was only 30k
All that and the SC Hennepin Decision last year now causing states to re-write their laws so that if an investor does somehow end up converting a lien to a deed, that investor may be liable to tax defaulter for the difference between the lien and market value of the property, Tax Liens seem to be VERY MUCH a place where only the big money, interest investors can make it worthwhile.
Fortunately, Texas has "immediate" possession Tax Deeds so we keep our focus there.
Louisiana is changing their tax sale laws now as well, killing my tax sale business that has done very very well over the last 15 years. - Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
@Will Sifert
I had someone reach out to me later about a tax lien they bought and wanted to know what to do, it was a strip of land that was essentially a useless parcel as it’s non buildable.. I asked what they paid for it and they said $4,000 - I asked what DD did you do and they said the county tax value was $6,000 so I was getting a deal… I asked him if he was a Gardener as maybe grow some veggies on it but other than that it’s useless and no one will buy it
7e investments53 Reviews - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Will Sifert:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
PREACH!!! your statement is 100% true. And it's those clueless that come and go every year but each year there is always just enough of them to bid everything too high or low depending on the state to make it a good deal for the rest of us. Each year there is new clueless to ruin it for the rest of us on an ongoing basis.
this happens in courthouse steps foreclosures as well.. - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Roy Oliphant:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. TAX CERTS are a bizzness not something you do as a passive investor or someone like me who is busy with their core business.. thankfully it was only 30k
All that and the SC Hennepin Decision last year now causing states to re-write their laws so that if an investor does somehow end up converting a lien to a deed, that investor may be liable to tax defaulter for the difference between the lien and market value of the property, Tax Liens seem to be VERY MUCH a place where only the big money, interest investors can make it worthwhile.
Fortunately, Texas has "immediate" possession Tax Deeds so we keep our focus there.
little bit diffferent but in 07 ish WA and OR passed new foreclosure rescue laws that stated if you bought a property pre foreclosure and sell it within 3 years you owe the person who lost it 80% of the gain.. And its a felony if you bust it.. that ended my pre foreclosure buying run. - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Will Sifert
I had someone reach out to me later about a tax lien they bought and wanted to know what to do, it was a strip of land that was essentially a useless parcel as it’s non buildable.. I asked what they paid for it and they said $4,000 - I asked what DD did you do and they said the county tax value was $6,000 so I was getting a deal… I asked him if he was a Gardener as maybe grow some veggies on it but other than that it’s useless and no one will buy it
other than the neighbor.. I have bought strips of land in N. CA when some of the larger big lot subdivisions were platted these were 20 to 40 acre in size.. many times you would have remainder parcels on the borders I bought one that I think was 75 by 2100.. I sold it though 75 was wide enough to get a trailer home in there.. :) - Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. TAX CERTS are a bizzness not something you do as a passive investor or someone like me who is busy with their core business.. thankfully it was only 30k
Jay, you were doing it for the redemptions, to make interest. Now, I don't know if the property you could have eventually tried to take ownership of, it there was value there but I come across this a LOT in my tax sale buying in Louisiana and I think WTF is this guy doing!!! lol
Perfect example, guy goes to tax sale for a couple years in a row buys a bunch of stuff, 4-5 years later everything that didn't redeem he just stops paying on it and lets it go back to tax sale. I see there is value there I buy it. After 3 years he loses his right to redeem from me and the original owner is WAY out of the picture. I quite title on all of them. I get the property. I have about 5K invested into it, I sell it for 40K. In the process of him being served he calls me and we talk, I ask why he let it go, he said it never redeemed and he got tired of cutting the grass!!! All he had to do was hire an attorney to file suit pay another 4-5K then sold it for 40K. But "it didn't redeem and he got tired of paying the tax bill and cutting the grass so he let it go". I didn't owe him anything legally but gave him $500 for a quit claim to make my suit a little easier and cleaner. He was happy and oblivious. - Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes2y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Will Sifert
I had someone reach out to me later about a tax lien they bought and wanted to know what to do, it was a strip of land that was essentially a useless parcel as it’s non buildable.. I asked what they paid for it and they said $4,000 - I asked what DD did you do and they said the county tax value was $6,000 so I was getting a deal… I asked him if he was a Gardener as maybe grow some veggies on it but other than that it’s useless and no one will buy it
bless his heart. - Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes2y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Will Sifert:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
PREACH!!! your statement is 100% true. And it's those clueless that come and go every year but each year there is always just enough of them to bid everything too high or low depending on the state to make it a good deal for the rest of us. Each year there is new clueless to ruin it for the rest of us on an ongoing basis.
this happens in courthouse steps foreclosures as well..
People bidding up way too high thinking that the inside of the house "might not be that bad" to find foundation issues, concrete in pipes, rot, termite damage and a previous fire all occurred there? Then them thinking "how unlucky" they were lol. - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Will Sifert:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
1. About 50% of investors buying a tax certificate think they’re buying the real propertyQuote from @Don Konipol:
I used to think that most investors purchasing mortgage notes were clueless as to the mechanics of how it worked. I now see that lack of knowledge is nothing compared to the cluelessness of investors who purchase tax liens……
2. About 75% have no idea about redemption period
3. About 85% have no idea about waiting time for filing deed
4. About 90% think tax liens work the same everywhere
Has anyone heard “investigate, THEN invest?when i first thought of doing this was in Hinds county MS.. I had a very successful HML company there funding mid 2000 turnkey guys/gals. I thought since i was there I would go buy some tax certs what can be so tough about those.. I took 30k to the sale and got schooled big time.. the big players are there with their lap tops the sale goes at lightning speed those guys snag most everything I end up spending my 30k.. And not one redeemed I lost interest trying to follow them and just chalked it up... I grew up in Tax SALE in CA with my dad so I thought what could be so tough about this.. Tax SALE and tax certs big diff. Now you get all these gurus trying to sell the sizzle like folks are going to end up with pretty homes for 5k each total BS. TAX CERTS are a bizzness not something you do as a passive investor or someone like me who is busy with their core business.. thankfully it was only 30k
Jay, you were doing it for the redemptions, to make interest. Now, I don't know if the property you could have eventually tried to take ownership of, it there was value there but I come across this a LOT in my tax sale buying in Louisiana and I think WTF is this guy doing!!! lol
Perfect example, guy goes to tax sale for a couple years in a row buys a bunch of stuff, 4-5 years later everything that didn't redeem he just stops paying on it and lets it go back to tax sale. I see there is value there I buy it. After 3 years he loses his right to redeem from me and the original owner is WAY out of the picture. I quite title on all of them. I get the property. I have about 5K invested into it, I sell it for 40K. In the process of him being served he calls me and we talk, I ask why he let it go, he said it never redeemed and he got tired of cutting the grass!!! All he had to do was hire an attorney to file suit pay another 4-5K then sold it for 40K. But "it didn't redeem and he got tired of paying the tax bill and cutting the grass so he let it go". I didn't owe him anything legally but gave him $500 for a quit claim to make my suit a little easier and cleaner. He was happy and oblivious.Well I thought i could end up owning it did not even look what I bid on.. And frankly just lost interest in even following it.. was not enough money to me to try to figure it out or waste time on it.. Guys like you that speicalize in it I get it.. U know the ropes and are organized and methodical at the time I was making 20 loans or more a month to flippers in Jackson and simply could not be bothered to follow this stuff LOL.. I grew up with my Dad in N. Ca buying TAX SALE and we bought HUNDREDS of parcels usually about 75 to 125 a year.. but thats buy it and get a deed.. And we had enough juice that our title company would issue insurance right after we got the tax collector deed and recorded it.. But that was then now is now.. its all on bid 4 assets and the deals are nowhere as good as they use to be not even close.
- Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes2y
Quote from @Kristine Ann:
It seems to me like most of the bidders have no idea what they are even bidding on, even with tax deed sales. It's usually not worth it to bid because the clueless people are driving the prices up.
Here's one for you. Tax deed auction last week there's a house in an economically depressed area in northern New York State (Clinton County). The pictures look pretty but I know the house and the area and it's in very bad shape and a very bad location.
It's accurately assessed for 45k next to the train tracks and has a 16 foot wide easement right through the property. The roof is collapsed and has been for at least 2-3 years which means there's damage throughout the house. It auctioned off to some online bidder for 30k! Maybe it would've been worth it at 5k, but 30K is crazy. What are people even thinking? The only explanation is that it's out-of-towners thinking Clinton County is in New York, so the land must be worth it? It's not.
Something like that I would have worried it was too far gone and I would have to pay another 20K in demo cost just to end up with a lot that was worth 5K. I wouldn't have taken a property like that for free. Too much risk. - 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Will Sifert:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Will Sifert
I had someone reach out to me later about a tax lien they bought and wanted to know what to do, it was a strip of land that was essentially a useless parcel as it’s non buildable.. I asked what they paid for it and they said $4,000 - I asked what DD did you do and they said the county tax value was $6,000 so I was getting a deal… I asked him if he was a Gardener as maybe grow some veggies on it but other than that it’s useless and no one will buy it
bless his heart.
will also on the left coast its exceedingly rare that a property with improvements goes to tax sale ..99.9% of tax sale props are bare land.
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