Newbies: investing is not rocket science - don't let the gurus tell you otherwise

Newbies: investing is not rocket science - don't let the gurus tell you otherwise

Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes

Alright, I just read a post from a guru pitching services on BP. I did not want to respond with what I really think, but let me tell you my story here instead.

In 2007 I went to a RichDad seminar: after the free Thursday night pitch, I signed up for the $300 weekend class. Sitting in a hotel conference room just outside of Milwaukee with probably 300 people I got a tour of every possible way how to make money in real estate followed by the obligatory pictures of checks cashed to proof the point. At the end of the weekend we were asked to sign up for courses. I believe about a dozen different ones, each one for $8,000. We were asked to select at least 6 and put them on a credit card - we would make the money back in no time, so the promise.

A few weeks later I got a call asking me why I did not sign up. And if I would be interested in a one year personal coaching for $3,500. That sounded more reasonable, so I signed up. Books came in the mail and my coach scheduled a (initailly) weekly call. I had material to study, home work to do, some field research and then to present to my coach every week. I asked my coach how many deals she had done and I always got a vague answer. I have to say the curriculum was very comprehensive, they covered everything from sandwich lease options to sub2. Felt like a college education and after you are done and get your first job, you realize you have to start learning all over again.

Eventually I bought my first duplex. I still own it, I think mostly for nostalgic reasons. A year later I had the confidence to buy another one and after that it was on. Fast forward in 2015 I quit my W2. Looking back I would say even though the course was interesting, it was not necessary and I took a gigantic detour, lost a year (with increadible buying opportunities - even though at the time it did not look like this) and could have bought a property instead. Buying a rental property and renting it out is not that hard. 

If you are new to this, here is what I want to tell you: buying rental properties is not complicated at it's core. Don't let anyone tell you different. People have done this literally for thousands of years. Read a couple books (Brandon Turner's are very step by step), find someone who has been doing this for a while and can guide you and probably most importantly: buy a quality property. You will never have a problem finding quality tenants. 90% of investors I have every met, who failed or gave up, had one thing in common: they bought in the hood. 

Nobody has ever regreted buying a quality property. Don't worry too much about how much the water bill is going to be exactly; if the bank is willing to finance your deal, you'll be good. The business model makes it actually really hard to really screw up in a big way. You won't go bankrupt over buying a duplex. I have bought plenty of bad deals: I overpaid, rehab ran 30k over budget, appraisal comes back low, contractors from hell, you name it - but real estate has that thing, a few years later it does not even matter anymore, even if you overpaid for the property.

Get comfortable not knowing everything before you start. You will figure things out when you have to. BP nation is here to help. And fellow local investors at a local REIA are always happy to help if you need advice. After doing this for 15 years I am still learning new tricks. You have to know it takes effort and a lot of time, play the long game, but it's totally worth it. Don't expect it to be easy or to make you rich quick. The years of buying cashflow with zero money are also over. We are back to normal: you will actually need some money to invest and a W2 to qualify for a loan. But plenty of investors have built their portfolio in similar markets. In the 80s interest rates used to be double of what they are today and people still succeeded.

Get started. Don't let anyone tell you you need to buy more guru courses before you are ready!

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Nicholas L.Pro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y

@Marcus Auerbach

Agree 100%.  I think though that, part of the reason why new investors worry about the water bill being $11 higher a month than they estimated, is because they're undercapitalized.  So yes, they can absolutely start without a course or a mentor or a guru, and I also strongly agree with you that a quality deal is forgiving in the long run even if you overpay a little or get some estimate wrong.  

But everyone should invest from a position of financial strength.  @Scott Trench I think does a great job of emphasizing this but there are so many cheerleaders AND gurus telling everyone that they can invest with "OPM" even if they have zero dollars and zero experience.  And again to your point, if you buy a property in a more challenging neighborhood from a position of financial weakness, you'll get crushed.

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  • Nicholas L.Pro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    2y

    @Marcus Auerbach

    Agree 100%.  I think though that, part of the reason why new investors worry about the water bill being $11 higher a month than they estimated, is because they're undercapitalized.  So yes, they can absolutely start without a course or a mentor or a guru, and I also strongly agree with you that a quality deal is forgiving in the long run even if you overpay a little or get some estimate wrong.  

    But everyone should invest from a position of financial strength.  @Scott Trench I think does a great job of emphasizing this but there are so many cheerleaders AND gurus telling everyone that they can invest with "OPM" even if they have zero dollars and zero experience.  And again to your point, if you buy a property in a more challenging neighborhood from a position of financial weakness, you'll get crushed.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nicholas L.:

    @Marcus Auerbach

    ... if you buy a property in a more challenging neighborhood from a position of financial weakness, you'll get crushed.

    Yup, right there, in one sentence.
  • Rental Property Investor · Northern NJ · Member since 2019 · 672 posts · 677 votes
    2y

    I usually roll my eyes at preachy posts but this is pretty good. Unfortunately most newbies will still be attracted to low priced neighborhoods like you said. David Greene does seem to be telling people on the BP podcast to not invest in C or D neighborhoods unless you grew up there. Seems like most who are successful with that technique did grow up in the hood.

    Still best to listen to podcast, go to meetups, check out books from the library you mentioned and house hack in their back yard, even if its pricey. It's RE investing with training wheels. About to close on my 3rd HH which will put me at $2.4 mil in RE holdings in 4 years.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mark F.:

    I usually roll my eyes at preachy posts but this is pretty good. Unfortunately most newbies will still be attracted to low priced neighborhoods like you said. David Greene does seem to be telling people on the BP podcast to not invest in C or D neighborhoods unless you grew up there. Seems like most who are successful with that technique did grow up in the hood.

    Ugh, preachy is not what I was going for! It just kills me to see people spend downpayment-sized chunks of money on hands-off gurus. We are in the information age!

    Problem is many have rose-colored glasses and will call a neighborhood C, but it is really a D - just because it seems there is even worse...

    I think the best definition is the A and B are above the median price and C and D are below. So look up the median price for your city and you know where you are at.  

    Congrats on serial house hacking!!
  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Account Closed:
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
    Quote from @Mark F.:

    I usually roll my eyes at preachy posts but this is pretty good. Unfortunately most newbies will still be attracted to low priced neighborhoods like you said. David Greene does seem to be telling people on the BP podcast to not invest in C or D neighborhoods unless you grew up there. Seems like most who are successful with that technique did grow up in the hood.

    Ugh, preachy is not what I was going for! It just kills me to see people spend downpayment-sized chunks of money on hands-off gurus. We are in the information age!

    Problem is many have rose-colored glasses and will call a neighborhood C, but it is really a D - just because it seems there is even worse...

    I think the best definition is the A and B are above the median price and C and D are below. So look up the median price for your city and you know where you are at.  

    Congrats on serial house hacking!!
    Your comment " Nobody has ever regreted buying a quality property. Don't worry too much about how much the water bill is going to be exactly; if the bank is willing to finance your deal, you'll be good."

    Lol, I guess you weren't around for 2008. Heheheheh



    I was around for 2008, it was a scary time to get started, but I was not leveraged to the gills. A lot of people lost their homes to forclosure when the teaser rates of their sub-prime mortages expired and they could not make their payments. But they had to live somewhere, so they became renters, so it was not a bad time to be a landlord.

    Lending standards are so much stricter today than they were before 2008. Nobody cared about a DSCR - if you could fog a mirror you were good to go! Very different today. And if a high water bill pushes you over the edge, maybe not a good idea to buy real estate (yet) - save up a bit extra.

  • Member since 2022 · 20 posts · 9 votes
    2y

    Awesome post thank you 

  • Member since 2023 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    Alright, I just read a post from a guru pitching services on BP. I did not want to respond with what I really think, but let me tell you my story here instead.

    In 2007 I went to a RichDad seminar: after the free Thursday night pitch, I signed up for the $300 weekend class. Sitting in a hotel conference room just outside of Milwaukee with probably 300 people I got a tour of every possible way how to make money in real estate followed by the obligatory pictures of checks cashed to proof the point. At the end of the weekend we were asked to sign up for courses. I believe about a dozen different ones, each one for $8,000. We were asked to select at least 6 and put them on a credit card - we would make the money back in no time, so the promise.

    A few weeks later I got a call asking me why I did not sign up. And if I would be interested in a one year personal coaching for $3,500. That sounded more reasonable, so I signed up. Books came in the mail and my coach scheduled a (initailly) weekly call. I had material to study, home work to do, some field research and then to present to my coach every week. I asked my coach how many deals she had done and I always got a vague answer. I have to say the curriculum was very comprehensive, they covered everything from sandwich lease options to sub2. Felt like a college education and after you are done and get your first job, you realize you have to start learning all over again.

    Eventually I bought my first duplex. I still own it, I think mostly for nostalgic reasons. A year later I had the confidence to buy another one and after that it was on. Fast forward in 2015 I quit my W2. Looking back I would say even though the course was interesting, it was not necessary and I took a gigantic detour, lost a year (with increadible buying opportunities - even though at the time it did not look like this) and could have bought a property instead. Buying a rental property and renting it out is not that hard. 

    If you are new to this, here is what I want to tell you: buying rental properties is not complicated at it's core. Don't let anyone tell you different. People have done this literally for thousands of years. Read a couple books (Brandon Turner's are very step by step), find someone who has been doing this for a while and can guide you and probably most importantly: buy a quality property. You will never have a problem finding quality tenants. 90% of investors I have every met, who failed or gave up, had one thing in common: they bought in the hood. 

    Nobody has ever regreted buying a quality property. Don't worry too much about how much the water bill is going to be exactly; if the bank is willing to finance your deal, you'll be good. The business model makes it actually really hard to really screw up in a big way. You won't go bankrupt over buying a duplex. I have bought plenty of bad deals: I overpaid, rehab ran 30k over budget, appraisal comes back low, contractors from hell, you name it - but real estate has that thing, a few years later it does not even matter anymore, even if you overpaid for the property.

    Get comfortable not knowing everything before you start. You will figure things out when you have to. BP nation is here to help. And fellow local investors at a local REIA are always happy to help if you need advice. After doing this for 15 years I am still learning new tricks. You have to know it takes effort and a lot of time, play the long game, but it's totally worth it. Don't expect it to be easy or to make you rich quick. The years of buying cashflow with zero money are also over. We are back to normal: you will actually need some money to invest and a W2 to qualify for a loan. But plenty of investors have built their portfolio in similar markets. In the 80s interest rates used to be double of what they are today and people still succeeded.

    Get started. Don't let anyone tell you you need to buy more guru courses before you are ready!

    @Marcus Auerbach Thank you for this. Quite encouraging.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    2y

    @Marcus Auerbach Great post! Although I do think that a newbie that is naive and rambunctious can always get into trouble pretty easy.....but yeah, this is really a pretty easy game to play. Simple stuff really.

  • Investor / Mentor / Contractor · Arcadia, CA Buying Out of State · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 621 votes
    2y

    Good post @Marcus Auerbach. Funny, I have almost the same exact story in 2008 with Rich Dad and the free event, I watched my friend "run to the back before the run out of room". He spent $50k! I said, "dude, that's crazy, they can't teach you that much". He never bought. I joined coaching and really liked it. I bought two SFR that year and it all began...

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2023 · 459 posts · 474 votes
    2y

    Great post, not preachy - just solid advice. I hope newbies read it and learn.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Tim Ryan:

    Good post @Marcus Auerbach. Funny, I have almost the same exact story in 2008 with Rich Dad and the free event, I watched my friend "run to the back before the run out of room". He spent $50k! I said, "dude, that's crazy, they can't teach you that much". He never bought. I joined coaching and really liked it. I bought two SFR that year and it all began...


    That is funny! In all fairness I have to say this was probably one of the best sales pitches I have ever been trough in my life. They did not sell me the expensive package, but they got me absolutley excited about real estate! 

    Looking back it was an exciting time in my life: I was high on the coolaid and felt like I had discovered a whole new world outside the W2 universe. The reality is of course a whole lot more sober and the grind is real, but so are the possibilites. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    I agree 100% with this. I specialize in 2-4 unit brokerage so have seen many people who have done the bootcamps. There is 0 correlation to their success, I would strangely actually say the bootcamp people tend to NOT buy and usually fail to become investors or they get one deal and do not scale it. Those programs are a huge rip off. To excel investing you just have to run basic 3rd grade math and most importantly do it! 

  • Matt McCurdyBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2019 · 143 posts · 56 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    Alright, I just read a post from a guru pitching services on BP. I did not want to respond with what I really think, but let me tell you my story here instead.

    In 2007 I went to a RichDad seminar: after the free Thursday night pitch, I signed up for the $300 weekend class. Sitting in a hotel conference room just outside of Milwaukee with probably 300 people I got a tour of every possible way how to make money in real estate followed by the obligatory pictures of checks cashed to proof the point. At the end of the weekend we were asked to sign up for courses. I believe about a dozen different ones, each one for $8,000. We were asked to select at least 6 and put them on a credit card - we would make the money back in no time, so the promise.

    A few weeks later I got a call asking me why I did not sign up. And if I would be interested in a one year personal coaching for $3,500. That sounded more reasonable, so I signed up. Books came in the mail and my coach scheduled a (initailly) weekly call. I had material to study, home work to do, some field research and then to present to my coach every week. I asked my coach how many deals she had done and I always got a vague answer. I have to say the curriculum was very comprehensive, they covered everything from sandwich lease options to sub2. Felt like a college education and after you are done and get your first job, you realize you have to start learning all over again.

    Eventually I bought my first duplex. I still own it, I think mostly for nostalgic reasons. A year later I had the confidence to buy another one and after that it was on. Fast forward in 2015 I quit my W2. Looking back I would say even though the course was interesting, it was not necessary and I took a gigantic detour, lost a year (with increadible buying opportunities - even though at the time it did not look like this) and could have bought a property instead. Buying a rental property and renting it out is not that hard. 

    If you are new to this, here is what I want to tell you: buying rental properties is not complicated at it's core. Don't let anyone tell you different. People have done this literally for thousands of years. Read a couple books (Brandon Turner's are very step by step), find someone who has been doing this for a while and can guide you and probably most importantly: buy a quality property. You will never have a problem finding quality tenants. 90% of investors I have every met, who failed or gave up, had one thing in common: they bought in the hood. 

    Nobody has ever regreted buying a quality property. Don't worry too much about how much the water bill is going to be exactly; if the bank is willing to finance your deal, you'll be good. The business model makes it actually really hard to really screw up in a big way. You won't go bankrupt over buying a duplex. I have bought plenty of bad deals: I overpaid, rehab ran 30k over budget, appraisal comes back low, contractors from hell, you name it - but real estate has that thing, a few years later it does not even matter anymore, even if you overpaid for the property.

    Get comfortable not knowing everything before you start. You will figure things out when you have to. BP nation is here to help. And fellow local investors at a local REIA are always happy to help if you need advice. After doing this for 15 years I am still learning new tricks. You have to know it takes effort and a lot of time, play the long game, but it's totally worth it. Don't expect it to be easy or to make you rich quick. The years of buying cashflow with zero money are also over. We are back to normal: you will actually need some money to invest and a W2 to qualify for a loan. But plenty of investors have built their portfolio in similar markets. In the 80s interest rates used to be double of what they are today and people still succeeded.

    Get started. Don't let anyone tell you you need to buy more guru courses before you are ready!

    @Marcus Auerbach Maybe the most fascinating part of your journey is your dissatisfaction for a bootcamp style program, but your value towards paying for the one-on-one coaching.  Most investors I've worked with have use a broad paint brush to describe the "weekend courses" and the "one-on-one coaching." Do you feel the coaching helped you stay on track/motivated or do you feel it was a waste of your money?

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    @Matt McCurdy the one-on-one coaching was like a college education: reading assignment, homework, write summary to coach. The "coach" was a trained call center person going through a script. It covered every strategy known to investors from nuts to soup at least the theory. Mostly irrelevant for what I wanted to do, but you can make the case for a solid base education. 

    It is not easy to provide good coaching, I have tried. 

    One of our local Milwaukee REIA groups offers a-la-carte coaching. Simple concept: instead of teaching a class you ask any questions that are relevant to you and get coaching on this specific issue, we even come out to your project. Select a coach that has the specific skillset you want and then pick their brain. I know every coach on the program, they are all very experienced local investors and a legitimate expert in their field and they genuinly want to help: from IRA investing to wholesaling, to flips etc. I liked it and agreed to help covering the BRRRR strategy, help people analyze a deal, walk a job, help them deal with construction issues etc.

    I think the approach is genius, the concept offers a huge value, because you can read a book on BRRRR and understand the theory, but still struggle with implementation. It worked really well, but I would have expected a lot more people take advantage of it.

    What we found was that people still wanted to spend $10,000 or $35,000 on a course that promised them to become an top investor rather than paying an expert for a hour of their time to help them with specific issues.

    The psychology of this is facinating. People want to be guru coached! But they want to spend the money in exchnage for the promise that they will become someone they are not (yet). 

    Motivation always comes from inside, you can't make people feel motivated.

  • Rebecca KnoxBusiness Member
    Specialist · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    Amen Marcus!!!

    When I hear how much people are spending on education with gurus or even 'local' coaches, it breaks my heart--that money could've been a downpayment on a house.

    If one is committing to spending tens of thousands of dollars whether upfront or splitting a minimum amount of deals, it's one of the worst mistakes that you can make in my opinion...

    In a world where information is at our fingertips and there is a blueprint that exists for everything, you'd be better off investing in courses on overcoming fear of change, lack of motivation, etc. John Assaraf is a great guy to watch on YouTube about this concept. 

    Captain Save-A-Home LLC
  • Matt McCurdyBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2019 · 143 posts · 56 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    @Matt McCurdy the one-on-one coaching was like a college education: reading assignment, homework, write summary to coach. The "coach" was a trained call center person going through a script. It covered every strategy known to investors from nuts to soup at least the theory. Mostly irrelevant for what I wanted to do, but you can make the case for a solid base education. 

    It is not easy to provide good coaching, I have tried. 

    One of our local Milwaukee REIA groups offers a-la-carte coaching. Simple concept: instead of teaching a class you ask any questions that are relevant to you and get coaching on this specific issue, we even come out to your project. Select a coach that has the specific skillset you want and then pick their brain. I know every coach on the program, they are all very experienced local investors and a legitimate expert in their field and they genuinly want to help: from IRA investing to wholesaling, to flips etc. I liked it and agreed to help covering the BRRRR strategy, help people analyze a deal, walk a job, help them deal with construction issues etc.

    I think the approach is genius, the concept offers a huge value, because you can read a book on BRRRR and understand the theory, but still struggle with implementation. It worked really well, but I would have expected a lot more people take advantage of it.

    What we found was that people still wanted to spend $10,000 or $35,000 on a course that promised them to become an top investor rather than paying an expert for a hour of their time to help them with specific issues.

    The psychology of this is facinating. People want to be guru coached! But they want to spend the money in exchnage for the promise that they will become someone they are not (yet). 

    Motivation always comes from inside, you can't make people feel motivated.

    I'm not trying to be rude, so I'll say this in the most delicate way possible...


    I'm sure you've spent plenty of time working on your coaching offering. Unfortunately, it sounds like your approach needs more refining to it's audience if the coaching offering wasn't successful.  Instead of blaming "people" who just want gurus, you need to first understand what makes them motivated (yes, anyone can be motivated by another person) to choose a "guru" class as you call it vs. a team of coaching experts.  Something is getting lost in translation. Motivation is all around us.

    I've seen successful 1-on-1 coaching programs, successful community based learning approaches, AND successful conferences/classes. All are valuable to helping real estate investors (REI's) grow as people and grow in their investing. I'm partial to 1-on-1 coaching as it allows me to create a personal and lasting connection, but the other two programs are great options for REI's as well. It's all about meeting the person where they are at in their journey. Sometimes 1-on-1 coaching isn't the right fit for them currently. Does that mean your program isn't valuable? Absolutely not! Warm wishes.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Matt McCurdy:
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    @Matt McCurdy the one-on-one coaching was like a college education: reading assignment, homework, write summary to coach. The "coach" was a trained call center person going through a script. It covered every strategy known to investors from nuts to soup at least the theory. Mostly irrelevant for what I wanted to do, but you can make the case for a solid base education. 

    It is not easy to provide good coaching, I have tried. 

    One of our local Milwaukee REIA groups offers a-la-carte coaching. Simple concept: instead of teaching a class you ask any questions that are relevant to you and get coaching on this specific issue, we even come out to your project. Select a coach that has the specific skillset you want and then pick their brain. I know every coach on the program, they are all very experienced local investors and a legitimate expert in their field and they genuinly want to help: from IRA investing to wholesaling, to flips etc. I liked it and agreed to help covering the BRRRR strategy, help people analyze a deal, walk a job, help them deal with construction issues etc.

    I think the approach is genius, the concept offers a huge value, because you can read a book on BRRRR and understand the theory, but still struggle with implementation. It worked really well, but I would have expected a lot more people take advantage of it.

    What we found was that people still wanted to spend $10,000 or $35,000 on a course that promised them to become an top investor rather than paying an expert for a hour of their time to help them with specific issues.

    The psychology of this is facinating. People want to be guru coached! But they want to spend the money in exchnage for the promise that they will become someone they are not (yet). 

    Motivation always comes from inside, you can't make people feel motivated.

    I'm not trying to be rude, so I'll say this in the most delicate way possible...


    I'm sure you've spent plenty of time working on your coaching offering. Unfortunately, it sounds like your approach needs more refining to it's audience if the coaching offering wasn't successful.  Instead of blaming "people" who just want gurus, you need to first understand what makes them motivated (yes, anyone can be motivated by another person) to choose a "guru" class as you call it vs. a team of coaching experts.  Something is getting lost in translation. Motivation is all around us.

    I've seen successful 1-on-1 coaching programs, successful community based learning approaches, AND successful conferences/classes. All are valuable to helping real estate investors (REI's) grow as people and grow in their investing. I'm partial to 1-on-1 coaching as it allows me to create a personal and lasting connection, but the other two programs are great options for REI's as well. It's all about meeting the person where they are at in their journey. Sometimes 1-on-1 coaching isn't the right fit for them currently. Does that mean your program isn't valuable? Absolutely not! Warm wishes.


    Valid points Matt! And no, I have not spent much time on preparing or marketing, it was simply about paying it forward to newer investors in my city, however it provided some interesting insights. 

  • Specialist · Bothell, WA · Member since 2014 · 268 posts · 80 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    @Matt McCurdy the one-on-one coaching was like a college education: reading assignment, homework, write summary to coach. The "coach" was a trained call center person going through a script. It covered every strategy known to investors from nuts to soup at least the theory. Mostly irrelevant for what I wanted to do, but you can make the case for a solid base education. 

    It is not easy to provide good coaching, I have tried. 

    One of our local Milwaukee REIA groups offers a-la-carte coaching. Simple concept: instead of teaching a class you ask any questions that are relevant to you and get coaching on this specific issue, we even come out to your project. Select a coach that has the specific skillset you want and then pick their brain. I know every coach on the program, they are all very experienced local investors and a legitimate expert in their field and they genuinly want to help: from IRA investing to wholesaling, to flips etc. I liked it and agreed to help covering the BRRRR strategy, help people analyze a deal, walk a job, help them deal with construction issues etc.

    I think the approach is genius, the concept offers a huge value, because you can read a book on BRRRR and understand the theory, but still struggle with implementation. It worked really well, but I would have expected a lot more people take advantage of it.

    What we found was that people still wanted to spend $10,000 or $35,000 on a course that promised them to become an top investor rather than paying an expert for a hour of their time to help them with specific issues.

    The psychology of this is facinating. People want to be guru coached! But they want to spend the money in exchnage for the promise that they will become someone they are not (yet). 

    Motivation always comes from inside, you can't make people feel motivated.


    Fascinating take! I've been one of those buyers of $10K courses lol. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would 100% sign up for a coaching program like the one your REIA has, I wish more offered them, thats an awesome service.

  • Developer · St. Augustine, FL · Member since 2018 · 311 posts · 384 votes
    2y

    Thank you for the great post but unfortunately it's most likely not gonna do what you want it to do. 

    This is not just in real estate, this is in every thing education. It's a market where people can't stop paying money to buy, and it's a business model for the gurus to make money. Think about the business model of an overpaid useless college degree. The system actually convinced people that's what they HAVE to do to do well. 

    It's part of the free economy and capitalism. If there is a demand, there will be supply and people making money out of it. If they can put together a presentation/program to convert people, that takes time/effort/knowledge too. Even though I don't like the business model, I still admire the hustling. That's why I give out my opinions all day long for free :) I like Alex Hormozi's model, share the secret and sell the implementation. I can give you the blueprint all day long, but if you can't or doesn't want to implement my blueprint, you still have to hire me to do the work. 

    The best way to learn is by doing. When starting out, it should be 10% learn and 90% do. But most people is the other way around. The process should be learn a little to know the first step and maybe the next few, then go do, do, do, do, do, then reflect upon what should be keep doing, what should be stop doing, and what else should be tried, go study a little more on related subject, then do do do do do rinse and repeat. When one become more and more proficient, that's when the studying takes more over doing. One must accept the fact that there will be mistakes, there will be cost paid, but in the long run, as long as one doesn't quit, and try to improve on the process every day, one will get better. 

    There is no short cut in building and retaining wealth. Money made quickly will also get lost quickly.  

  • Member since 2024 · 84 posts · 106 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    Alright, I just read a post from a guru pitching services on BP. I did not want to respond with what I really think, but let me tell you my story here instead.

    In 2007 I went to a RichDad seminar: after the free Thursday night pitch, I signed up for the $300 weekend class. Sitting in a hotel conference room just outside of Milwaukee with probably 300 people I got a tour of every possible way how to make money in real estate followed by the obligatory pictures of checks cashed to proof the point. At the end of the weekend we were asked to sign up for courses. I believe about a dozen different ones, each one for $8,000. We were asked to select at least 6 and put them on a credit card - we would make the money back in no time, so the promise.

    A few weeks later I got a call asking me why I did not sign up. And if I would be interested in a one year personal coaching for $3,500. That sounded more reasonable, so I signed up. Books came in the mail and my coach scheduled a (initailly) weekly call. I had material to study, home work to do, some field research and then to present to my coach every week. I asked my coach how many deals she had done and I always got a vague answer. I have to say the curriculum was very comprehensive, they covered everything from sandwich lease options to sub2. Felt like a college education and after you are done and get your first job, you realize you have to start learning all over again.

    Eventually I bought my first duplex. I still own it, I think mostly for nostalgic reasons. A year later I had the confidence to buy another one and after that it was on. Fast forward in 2015 I quit my W2. Looking back I would say even though the course was interesting, it was not necessary and I took a gigantic detour, lost a year (with increadible buying opportunities - even though at the time it did not look like this) and could have bought a property instead. Buying a rental property and renting it out is not that hard. 

    If you are new to this, here is what I want to tell you: buying rental properties is not complicated at it's core. Don't let anyone tell you different. People have done this literally for thousands of years. Read a couple books (Brandon Turner's are very step by step), find someone who has been doing this for a while and can guide you and probably most importantly: buy a quality property. You will never have a problem finding quality tenants. 90% of investors I have every met, who failed or gave up, had one thing in common: they bought in the hood. 

    Nobody has ever regreted buying a quality property. Don't worry too much about how much the water bill is going to be exactly; if the bank is willing to finance your deal, you'll be good. The business model makes it actually really hard to really screw up in a big way. You won't go bankrupt over buying a duplex. I have bought plenty of bad deals: I overpaid, rehab ran 30k over budget, appraisal comes back low, contractors from hell, you name it - but real estate has that thing, a few years later it does not even matter anymore, even if you overpaid for the property.

    Get comfortable not knowing everything before you start. You will figure things out when you have to. BP nation is here to help. And fellow local investors at a local REIA are always happy to help if you need advice. After doing this for 15 years I am still learning new tricks. You have to know it takes effort and a lot of time, play the long game, but it's totally worth it. Don't expect it to be easy or to make you rich quick. The years of buying cashflow with zero money are also over. We are back to normal: you will actually need some money to invest and a W2 to qualify for a loan. But plenty of investors have built their portfolio in similar markets. In the 80s interest rates used to be double of what they are today and people still succeeded.

    Get started. Don't let anyone tell you you need to buy more guru courses before you are ready!


     Marcus, I'm looking to get into real estate investment. I'm located in the Columbus OH area. Problem I'm having is the only properties I'm finding for sale that even come close to positive cash flow are in the lower priced, higher crime neighborhoods.  Seems like rents have not keep pace with the increasing home prices over the past few years.  How do you find a positive (or neutral) cash flow investment property in a decent neighborhood?

  • Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    2y

    When gurus tell people "just take action", I cringe. Taking action without preparation is tantamount to telling someone to jump off the cliff and we'll figure out if the water is deep enough later. Nothing is "rocket science" except, well, rocket science. I've talked with far too many "investors" who were encouraged to "jump in" to investing without any knowledge or plan on how to monetize it. No one would tell a 1st year medical student to do surgery just so they don't have analysis paralysis, yet I see this everyday on real estate forums.  

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y

    I don't know your market but I just pulled numbers for Columbus; 249k median, 102% sale to list price and 19 DOM - that's pretty similar to what we have here in Milwaukee. If you can afford it I would buy a house just above median in already move in condition. You should be able to break even on mortgage payments. Or you buy try to buy the equivalent house distressed and do the work to get it to median.

    This is certainly a delayed gratification strategy. If you run numbers through the BP calculator you'll see that cash flow will turn positive in a few years. Your ROI is mostly from loan paydown and from appreciation. My point is that over 5 or 10 years this type of investment will outperfrom a cash flow property in the hood by a wide margin.

    You can only buy the best deal the market will allow you at any given time. And you are lucky to be in one the THE best markets in the US for investors. You want to buy as much cash flow as you can possibly get, but you should not compromise the quality of the location and the structure. (Don't buy a weird house nobody wants just because its cheap!!) It is a balancing act, but your future self will thank you.

    PS maybe try to seperate your equity investment from your cash flow investment: there are other ways to build a couple hundred $ in passive income and then you can focus your REI on long term goals.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Gustavo Munoz Castro:
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    @Matt McCurdy the one-on-one coaching was like a college education: reading assignment, homework, write summary to coach. The "coach" was a trained call center person going through a script. It covered every strategy known to investors from nuts to soup at least the theory. Mostly irrelevant for what I wanted to do, but you can make the case for a solid base education. 

    It is not easy to provide good coaching, I have tried. 

    One of our local Milwaukee REIA groups offers a-la-carte coaching. Simple concept: instead of teaching a class you ask any questions that are relevant to you and get coaching on this specific issue, we even come out to your project. Select a coach that has the specific skillset you want and then pick their brain. I know every coach on the program, they are all very experienced local investors and a legitimate expert in their field and they genuinly want to help: from IRA investing to wholesaling, to flips etc. I liked it and agreed to help covering the BRRRR strategy, help people analyze a deal, walk a job, help them deal with construction issues etc.

    I think the approach is genius, the concept offers a huge value, because you can read a book on BRRRR and understand the theory, but still struggle with implementation. It worked really well, but I would have expected a lot more people take advantage of it.

    What we found was that people still wanted to spend $10,000 or $35,000 on a course that promised them to become an top investor rather than paying an expert for a hour of their time to help them with specific issues.

    The psychology of this is facinating. People want to be guru coached! But they want to spend the money in exchnage for the promise that they will become someone they are not (yet). 

    Motivation always comes from inside, you can't make people feel motivated.


    Fascinating take! I've been one of those buyers of $10K courses lol. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I would 100% sign up for a coaching program like the one your REIA has, I wish more offered them, thats an awesome service.


    If you have a specific problem, you can probably get someone to help you with that. Find someone who has the knowledge you need (at REIA or BP) and ask them to take an hour to look at your property or sit down with you.

    I get hit up sometimes by people who want to buy me coffee or a steak as compensation for my time and knowledge. I know they mean well and try to frame it this way in my mind, but getting financial advice from someone who is copelled by food is maybe not the best idea.

    Instead, offer $300 for an hour of their time. They will either take you up on it and make sure you get your money's worth or they will just appreciate that you respect their time and help you out for free.

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

    Alright, I just read a post from a guru pitching services on BP. I did not want to respond with what I really think, but let me tell you my story here instead.

    buying direct does not need a coach or guru yes lol

  • Sam YinPro Member
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2021 · 583 posts · 738 votes
    2y

    OP is worth a reread. Then reread it again.

    So many golden nuggets.

    Thanks.

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