Does anyone know anything about renatus program

19 Replies

Originally posted by @Logan Jones :

Just wanting to hear people's thoughts on the renatus program

 If you perform a search of the forums, you will find several past threads discussing Renatus, some of them dog-whistling, some of them containing heated exchanges.

During one of those "exchanges" a little over a year ago, I made a concerted effort to learn more about them and found it very difficult to obtain solid information (beyond promotional materials) from the organization itself (they wanted money first).   I did find unsettling information about some of the principals behind the organisation. 

There are folks, a couple here on BP, who are adamant the organisation is the best path to a future in real estate investing and there are many here who see it as multi-level marketing scheme designed to make a few at the top of the pyramid wealthy at the expense of those recruited at the entry level.

You will need to consume all the material you can find and make a decision for yourself.  One thing I can tell you is that views on the organisation seem to be very polarized.

Disclosure: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer.

@Logan Jones ,

I have first hand experience with them - all very positive.

Send me a colleague request so we can discuss privately lest the "signal to noise ratio" render calm, intelligent discussion impossible.

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

I went to a meeting with them and they seemed to be the real deal. They were all local and had done deals in my town with pictures and the numbers. All the people were very approachable, inviting and helpful. Ultimately I didn't have the money for the membership so I opted not to join their group, but I think they are definitely worth a look.

Disclosure: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer

Originally posted by @Bram Spiero :

what are they charging?

I had to edit this response when I noticed you've been posting for a while. If that's your primary criterion, you may want to reconsider your own values and motivations. 

Education doesn't cost - lack of education costs. Ask anyone who has made an expensive mistake they could have avoided had they known what they were doing going in.

Acquire a positive mindset first. THEN we can talk. Otherwise, it's just a number. Without knowing what the number means, its value is almost nil.

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

@David Dachtera , that's avoiding the question by sprinkling some meaningless platitudes and making assumptions about the person asking the question.

No shame in charging for education but I've found that when pricing is a mystery that needs to be discovered only after demonstrating my willingness to spend, it's best to stay away.

Originally posted by @Bram Spiero :

@David Dachtera, that's avoiding the question by sprinkling some meaningless platitudes and making assumptions about the person asking the question.

No shame in charging for education but I've found that when pricing is a mystery that needs to be discovered only after demonstrating my willingness to spend, it's best to stay away.

...and that is an excuse for not making an intelligent exploration of what you're buying so you understand the value when you see the price. 

One of my earliest mentors taught me, "Until you know value, everything is worthless."

Again, if that is your primary criterion, you wouldn't be a good match for this organization.

We want to work with people who make INTELLIGENT choices, not snap decisions based on partial information. Such people are too risky as partners in a deal, or even as trades-people to work on a  project.

Put it this way: even at our live presentations, there is NOTHING for sale: no computers and credit card machines in the back of the room or any of that.

We don't accept impulsive choosers - neither should you.

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

So, first a couple of sessions to create trust and a sense of commitment. It becomes a relationship so that when the subject of fees come up later on, deciding on whether or not to join is less of a monetary decision than an emotional one.

Then, in your non-answers, you use the suggestions that individuals that appreciate value and are intelligent would not be asking straight forward questions about price.

I've not suggested that I'm suggesting joining, or not. I've said nothing about how importantly price factors in my decisions. Yet you approach my simple question as an objection to be countered from a sales sheet.

It's difficult to counter suggestions of being a secretive, pyramid scheme when providing answers consistent with a secretive, pyramid scheme.

@Bram Spiero

Ok, let's explore that...

Which would you buy? A car for $17K or one for $35K? You don't yet know anything about either one, so you're making an uniformed choice.

Is this how you run your REI business? You may want to go get a W2 gig instead if that's how you think - your business is doomed.

You then follow with speculation, probably based on rumor and innuendo.

There is NOTHING "secretive" about it. Anyone can attend any free meeting anytime. You may want to ask someone to invite you, however, so you at least have some knowledge of what you're about to experience, and someone with whom you can discuss your questions - you WILL have questions, even after you've seen the prices.

Every corporation in the world is a "pyramid scheme" and every W2 employee fits into that at some level. Don't believe me? Then, you've never worked in corporate America.

This diagram doesn't translate well to this medium...

* - Pres. / CEO
** - Exec VPs
**** - Sr. VPs
****** - VPs
******** - Sr Directors
********** - Directors
************ - Sr. Managers
************** - Managers
**************** - Project Leaders

****************** - Group Leaders

******************** - Team Leaders

********************** - Team Members

************************ - Contractors

************************** - Interns

I could go on, but I think the point is obvious. Let's not forget the Board of Directors or the stock-holders (if any), either.

You then go on to make an analogy based on your pre-assumptions rather than exploring the topic properly so you understand what you're talking about.

So, no - this would not be a good fit for you, nor would you be a good fit for one of our communities.

Do keep us in mind, however. Get that chip off your shoulder, and drop a note back. THEN we can talk.

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

DISCLOSURE: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer

@David Dachtera , let me ask you a different question, seeing as we have fundamentally different points of view, contradicting each other is not going to produce anything constructive.

What is it that you have gotten out of your association with Renatus that makes you such an enthusiastic proponent?

Disclosure: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer

Originally posted by @Bram Spiero :

@David Dachtera, let me ask you a different question, seeing as we have fundamentally different points of view, contradicting each other is not going to produce anything constructive.

What is it that you have gotten out of your association with Renatus that makes you such an enthusiastic proponent?

Resources, support, education, relationships, a sense of purpose, the opportunity to make a difference, ... most of which you can't get from "the gurus".

We have a saying around the office: come for the coffee, stay for the education. I'm the coffee guy - I happen to make an great cup of coffee considering I'm using "party perk" type coffee makers. I'm trying to get them to replace the vending machines, also - ours won't reliably dispense the current generation of water bottles and the guests keep asking for water.

Our office in suburban Chicago is doing things which are blazing trails in REI education, not just in Renatus. The financing programs we offer were developed by one of our leaders and her relationship with our credit expert - his partner in a previous funding program died suddenly; so he took it over and made it even better. NONE of "the gurus" offers financing - we even have a program for people with no credit and no income!

The VA people came to US about their supportive housing program for homeless and disabled veterans because they prefer to work with educated investors. They see the quality of our education, the success of our group's members and our dedication to the community-at-large. One of our group leaders just partnered with some group members and purchased 32 acres of land on which he plans to build homes for Habitat for Humanity.

Our group pioneered the idea of study groups to help students understand what they are learning in their classes. It's now spreading to our other communities around the country.

We have meetings every week where, as I mentioned, there is NOTHING for sale.

We have workshops every month where one of the instructors comes out and does 9am to 4pm on (one of) the class(es) he/she teaches. Again, there is NOTHING for sale.

Those are a few benefits, aside from having access to money partners, fellow investors, mentors, trades people and more.

Those may only be important to me, but you did ask...

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

Thank you @David Dachtera , and I did ask. 

Your responses are very educational.

I'm a stubborn person, so when you kept on deflecting the questions on pricing I dug a little deeper and found that courses at Renatus range between 2-15k (some have said that recently that's gone up to as much as 20k) and also that students have an opportunity to earn commissions by bringing in other students.

A persistent criticism seems to be that Renatus specializes in selling education rather than REI. Real Estate seems merely the content that gets poured into the Renatus framework.

Renatus seems to avoid the obvious guru speak by claiming to provide a community in which to learn how to do REI and find feedback and support rather than giving access to "secrets".

We all know that there are no secrets to real estate, right?

People that enjoy this community and thrive in marketing education seem to do well in the Renatus program. 

People that want to focus on real estate investing seem to be disappointed with what they got from the program. 

Your responses to my objections are very much in line with responses from other Renatus affiliates, including the CAPITALIZATION, which was what led me to think that you were responding from a sales sheet or that you're received training at Renatus on how to respond to objections.

Disclosure: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer

@Bram Spiero

Well, you're dedicated to your position, I will say that. Tell me, does knowing the prices tell you any of what I wrote in the previous post?

Here's what you need to understand:

Renatus is a marketing company which sells REI education - it's as simple as that. Even my disclosure clearly says that I'm an affiliate marketer - I make no bones about that. I don't have a problem helping people better themselves, though I sense that you do.

...and no, there are no "sales sheets", scripts or any of that nonsense. You're still listening to people who have no experience with Renatus or, like you, heard what they wanted to hear and not what was presented to them.

The communities are where the focus is on REI.

Now, if you can show me a "guru" who has local communities of investors, please do so.

If you can show me a "guru" whose local communities of investors were approached by a branch of the government seeking help to house their returning soldiers, please do so.

If you can show me a "guru" whose local communities of investors are developing programs even the "guru" doesn't have, please do so.

If you can show me a former student who is dissatisfied with their education, please do so. Check Renatus out on the BBB: A+ rating, yet still non-accredited (meaning they earned that rating, they didn't buy it). Encourage them to take the matter up with Renatus Corporate, or if they can't get satisfaction that way, take it up with the BBB.

If you can show me a "guru" whose education company has an A+ BBB rating, please do so.

We get a LOT of skepticism and arguments - mostly from broke people who want everything handed to them at no cost and at no risk. I sense you're one of those people.

Ask yourself: how much profit have your earned from being stubborn and closed-minded? ...from sticking staunchly to an unsupportable position?

As I wrote earlier, this would not be a good fit for you, nor would you be a good fit for one of our communities. You should probably avoid REIAs and other investor gatherings as well - people don't need your negativity around them.

Do keep us in mind, however. Get that chip off your shoulder, and drop a note back. THEN we can talk some more.

David J Dachtera

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

Man, you've got a lot of pent up aggression. That can't be good for you.

Try some Yoga, it'll help you center your self.

Adriene has a fantastic youtube channel;

https://www.youtube.com/user/yogawithadriene 

Originally posted by @Bram Spiero :

Man, you've got a lot of pent up aggression. That can't be good for you.

Try some Yoga, it'll help you center your self.

Adriene has a fantastic youtube channel;

https://www.youtube.com/user/yogawithadriene

I get it from people who think they know so much about something they've never experienced. 

If you put as much into your REI business as you do into arguing, you wouldn't need Renatus or BP - you'd be neighbors with Warren Buffet.

Disclosure: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer

@Bram Spiero ,

Yes - my response to you was tough - it was intended to be. My patience with excuse makers is, indeed, very thin and quickly exhausted.

There actually ARE secrets, but they are less about deals and transactions than they are about mastery of self (obviously, I still have challenges there - a situation we seem to share).

Many of the posters I see here on BP come from the consumer "scarcity" mentality instead of the entrepreneurial abundance mentality. This stuff isn't taught in the schools, so that's understandable. Most of us grow up hearing, "We can't afford it" or "Maybe someday ..." Very few - if any - parents teach their children, "Well, how can we find the money for <fill in the blank>" or "let's plan how to get <fill in the blank> and when we'll have that done".

The "secret", then, is to master one's own weaknesses. This not taught so much as it is learned from those around us, and inspired and motivated by mentors and colleagues.

We all, in our own way, need to learn how to master our own challenges.

My self-made obstacle is over-reaction.

Yours is your stubbornness, though really, it isn't actually about being stubborn. Your challenge is that you find it easier to make excuses to avoid new experiences and the risks they bring rather than looking to the rewards which may come as a source of motivation. An early adopted mentor of mine taught me, "Everything you want lies just outside your comfort zone." That's a bit incongruous with your self-description as an investor because the two - excuses and success - are mutually exclusive. Another early adopted mentor of mine said, "You can make money or you can make excuses, but not both."

Instead of finding reasons to stay where you are, try finding reasons to move forward that have enough power to break you through your own self-made obstacles.

I will (continue to) do the same.

David J Dachtera

P.S.:

The "capitalization" thing is a concession to this medium. Bolded and/or underscored text in this HTML environment may not always render as the author intended. So, to add emphasis, caps are often used.

"Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
- DJ Benedict

Disclosure: Student, Affiliate, Community Volunteer

@Kimi McCarty ,

Didn't realize I was insulting anyone. Thought I was being insulted. :-)

Seriously though, if you're looking for education, definitely see if there's something there for you.

If you're not into marketing the education, skip that part - a lot of folks do. 

Marketing is a key part of REI:

  • selling deals to prospective money partners, 
  • selling your self to prospective lenders, 
  • selling finished rehabs and fix-and-flips to prospective end buyers, 
  • "selling" rental properties to prospective tenants, ...

The two do go together.