"Should I buy a turnkey rental or do a BRRRR?"

"Should I buy a turnkey rental or do a BRRRR?"

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 242 posts · 85 votes

Building wealth through real estate is a long game.

In Cleveland, and honestly most Midwest markets with older housing stock, investors often ask:

"Should I buy a turnkey rental or do a BRRRR?" My answer is that either one can work.

The problem is that most people don't stop and ask what "turnkey" actually means.

A lot of the time, turnkey is defined by the person selling the property, not by the investor who has to own it.

Fresh paint, new flooring, and a clean house don't automatically make a property turnkey.

If the major mechanicals haven't been addressed, if functional obsolescence hasn't been fixed, and if the property hasn't been set up to be easy to manage, you're just buying a nicer-looking problem.

Then investors get blindsided. They thought they bought a turnkey property, but what they really bought was lipstick on a pig.

In fact, many investors today are stuck with properties that are upside down because they overpaid for something that was marketed as a turnkey, Section 8-ready. They paid for the label. They paid for the marketing. They didn't pay for the actual quality of the asset.

And when things get tough, they find out they can't sell it for anywhere near what they paid.

The same thing happens with BRRRRs.

Too many investors become obsessed with pulling their money back out of the deal.

They're focused on the refinance instead of improving the property.

The real goal should be making the property easier to manage, improving the major systems, and increasing the property's long-term value and marketability.

Because if you're not accomplishing those things, it doesn't matter whether it's a turnkey property or a BRRRR.

Stop asking whether a property is turnkey or a BRRRR. Start asking whether the improvements actually make the property easier to own, easier to manage, and easier to sell. That's what determines whether the investment succeeds

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Arman AhmedPro Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2024 · 2k+ posts · 969 votes
2mo
Quote from @Gladimir Lobo:

Building wealth through real estate is a long game.

In Cleveland, and honestly most Midwest markets with older housing stock, investors often ask:

"Should I buy a turnkey rental or do a BRRRR?" My answer is that either one can work.

The problem is that most people don't stop and ask what "turnkey" actually means.

A lot of the time, turnkey is defined by the person selling the property, not by the investor who has to own it.

Fresh paint, new flooring, and a clean house don't automatically make a property turnkey.

If the major mechanicals haven't been addressed, if functional obsolescence hasn't been fixed, and if the property hasn't been set up to be easy to manage, you're just buying a nicer-looking problem.

Then investors get blindsided. They thought they bought a turnkey property, but what they really bought was lipstick on a pig.

In fact, many investors today are stuck with properties that are upside down because they overpaid for something that was marketed as a turnkey, Section 8-ready. They paid for the label. They paid for the marketing. They didn't pay for the actual quality of the asset.

And when things get tough, they find out they can't sell it for anywhere near what they paid.

The same thing happens with BRRRRs.

Too many investors become obsessed with pulling their money back out of the deal.

They're focused on the refinance instead of improving the property.

The real goal should be making the property easier to manage, improving the major systems, and increasing the property's long-term value and marketability.

Because if you're not accomplishing those things, it doesn't matter whether it's a turnkey property or a BRRRR.

Stop asking whether a property is turnkey or a BRRRR. Start asking whether the improvements actually make the property easier to own, easier to manage, and easier to sell. That's what determines whether the investment succeeds


Totally agree. I think investors get too caught up in the label instead of the actual numbers and condition of the property. A turnkey deal should mean more than fresh paint and new flooring, and a BRRRR shouldn't be about forcing a refinance just to get your cash back. If the property has solid fundamentals, manageable expenses, good systems, and a realistic exit strategy, either approach can work. In older Midwest markets, I'd rather buy the right asset at the right price than pay a premium for something marketed as "turnkey."

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  • James JonesPro Member
    Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 987 posts · 670 votes
    2mo

    The "turnkey, Section 8-ready" label is the one that burns people the worst, and it's worth unpacking because there is no such thing as Section 8-ready as a property condition. There's only "passes HQS today with this inspector," which is a moment in time, not a feature you bought.

    I run Section 8 rentals in Memphis and the pattern is identical to what you're describing in Cleveland. Someone paints, drops in LVP, gets one HQS pass, and markets it at a premium as a voucher-ready asset. Then the second-year inspection hits and the buyer finds out that GFCI coverage, handrail spacing, window sash cords, peeling paint on a pre-1978 exterior, and the water heater TPR discharge line were never actually addressed. Now they're fixing mechanicals on a property they overpaid for, with a tenant in place they can't easily move, and the rent is capped by the payment standard regardless of how nice the finishes are.

    That last part is the piece most people miss. On a voucher unit, cosmetic upgrades have a hard ceiling on what they can earn you. The payment standard for the bedroom count in that zip is what it is. So every dollar you spend on finish level above what passes inspection and rents is a dollar that returns zero, while the roof, the panel, the sewer line, and the HVAC are what actually determine whether you own an asset or a liability. Which is exactly your point: the improvements that make it easier to own and manage are the ones that count.

    My rule of thumb, whether it's turnkey or a BRRRR: price the deal as if the major systems are at end of life until someone shows me otherwise. Roof age, panel type and amperage, HVAC age, water heater age, sewer scope, and on older stock, what's behind the walls. If the seller can document those, great, pay for it. If they can't, the "turnkey premium" is just a story.

    Good post.

    • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 242 posts · 85 votes
      2mo

      James Jones: Good points!  

  • Arman AhmedPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2024 · 2k+ posts · 969 votes
    2mo
    Quote from @Gladimir Lobo:

    Building wealth through real estate is a long game.

    In Cleveland, and honestly most Midwest markets with older housing stock, investors often ask:

    "Should I buy a turnkey rental or do a BRRRR?" My answer is that either one can work.

    The problem is that most people don't stop and ask what "turnkey" actually means.

    A lot of the time, turnkey is defined by the person selling the property, not by the investor who has to own it.

    Fresh paint, new flooring, and a clean house don't automatically make a property turnkey.

    If the major mechanicals haven't been addressed, if functional obsolescence hasn't been fixed, and if the property hasn't been set up to be easy to manage, you're just buying a nicer-looking problem.

    Then investors get blindsided. They thought they bought a turnkey property, but what they really bought was lipstick on a pig.

    In fact, many investors today are stuck with properties that are upside down because they overpaid for something that was marketed as a turnkey, Section 8-ready. They paid for the label. They paid for the marketing. They didn't pay for the actual quality of the asset.

    And when things get tough, they find out they can't sell it for anywhere near what they paid.

    The same thing happens with BRRRRs.

    Too many investors become obsessed with pulling their money back out of the deal.

    They're focused on the refinance instead of improving the property.

    The real goal should be making the property easier to manage, improving the major systems, and increasing the property's long-term value and marketability.

    Because if you're not accomplishing those things, it doesn't matter whether it's a turnkey property or a BRRRR.

    Stop asking whether a property is turnkey or a BRRRR. Start asking whether the improvements actually make the property easier to own, easier to manage, and easier to sell. That's what determines whether the investment succeeds


    Totally agree. I think investors get too caught up in the label instead of the actual numbers and condition of the property. A turnkey deal should mean more than fresh paint and new flooring, and a BRRRR shouldn't be about forcing a refinance just to get your cash back. If the property has solid fundamentals, manageable expenses, good systems, and a realistic exit strategy, either approach can work. In older Midwest markets, I'd rather buy the right asset at the right price than pay a premium for something marketed as "turnkey."

  • John O'LearyPro Member
    Lender · Winter Park, FL · Member since 2021 · 738 posts · 412 votes
    2mo

    Great point. In today’s market, most BRRRRs result in a partial cash-out, and pushing the refinance to maximum leverage often means accepting a higher rate and lower cash flow. Investors who keep money circulating through flips or other dispositions may not need to pull every dollar out, which can lead to better financing and a healthier rental. The goal isn’t to force every deal to recycle 100% of the cash, it’s to scale safely and build wealth over time.

    • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 242 posts · 85 votes
      2mo
      Quote from @John O'Leary:

      Having lived through ‘08 crash. It doesn't matter if the property was turnkey/BRRRR or what the brochure said. Because when things get tough, you're not living off labels. You're living with the property.

      Is it easy to manage?  Are the major systems solid?  Does it attract and keep good tenants?

      Can you operate it without constant surprises?  Those are the things that matter.

      The real question is whether the improvements actually make the property easier to own, easier to manage, and easier to sell.

      Because that's what determines whether the investment succeeds.

      Not the label/marketing/spreadsheet.

      The quality of the asset.

  • Member since 2023 · 112 posts · 70 votes
    2mo

    Hello!

    I agree with the others!

    I do not trust "Turn-Keys" as they usually aren't. 

    In my experience, it is a marketing technique that flippers use to sell over-valued properties to unsuspecting investors. 

    The rub is simple... 

    Step 1: Buy Property and do very little due diligence so you have plausible deniability on resale as "I only owned it for a few months...how could I know that was almost breaking"

    Step 2: Fix up mostly cosmetic things and hope they don't flush the toilet more than 20 times. 

    Step 3: Keep it vacant or "running" until its offloaded. 

    Step 4: Bask in the glow that "Sophisticated Investors" are supposed to know your lying to them. 

    Not saying that is all of them, but I don't like to buy turn-keys and don't usually recommend them.

    Much better to buy "Lipstick on Pig" Properties where you can get some instant equity by buying an ugly property that has good internals, and just needs dolled up. 

    Happy hunting!


    L. Thomas

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