Handling Ungrounded Outlets in a 1950s Ranch

Investor · Decatur Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 610 posts · 232 votes

I'm looking at a 1950s brick ranch with the original ungrounded wiring. Instead of doing a full rewire or opening up plaster walls, I'm considering installing GFCI breakers only on the circuits that require it today—kitchen, bath, exterior, and laundry—and then replacing the remaining bedroom and living room outlets with 3-prong receptacles labeled “No Equipment Ground.” Another option would be installing a single GFCI at the first outlet of each branch circuit to provide added protection without having to run new grounded wiring or replace the panel. Curious if anyone has done something similar or sees any issues with this approach.

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Kevin Sobilo

Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

9mo

@Kevin Polite, a couple thoughts:

1. The outlets may be ungrounded, but the SYSTEM may be grounded!

Many systems from that era use a BX style wiring aka a metal shielded cable where there is a strip in the shielding that acts as a ground. All the boxes are metal and bonded to that grounded shielding So, all the boxes themselves are grounded.

If you have a system like this you can often bond a ground wire to the metal outlet box and catch ground that way OR use a self-grounding outlet that does that for you by having a metal portion that contacts the box.

Note: That you may come across situations where even with this system that work done since then has broken the connection to ground. Often times people did work at a junction box and failed to bond ground to that box disrupting the ground connection. So, you may need to chase these down.

2. With a ranch, you often have access from a basement below and/or an attic above. So, running new wiring really isn't so terrible. If I am doing a substantial rehab, I would rewire a lot of that because it can be done without breaking open walls too much that need to be patched.

3. The solution you describe is considered proper, but FEW people will realize that and the perception of it will be poor. So, I would use it as a last resort. For example, in #1 where you cannot track down where ground was interrupted and where you need an outlet in that location. For a one-off outlet I think its ok, but I think you'll have a negative perception especially when you sell if you do a whole house like that.

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Kevin Sobilo
Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9mo
@Kevin Polite, a couple thoughts:
1. The outlets may be ungrounded, but the SYSTEM may be grounded!
Many systems from that era use a BX style wiring aka a metal shielded cable where there is a strip in the shielding that acts as a ground. All the boxes are metal and bonded to that grounded shielding So, all the boxes themselves are grounded.
If you have a system like this you can often bond a ground wire to the metal outlet box and catch ground that way OR use a self-grounding outlet that does that for you by having a metal portion that contacts the box.
Note: That you may come across situations where even with this system that work done since then has broken the connection to ground. Often times people did work at a junction box and failed to bond ground to that box disrupting the ground connection. So, you may need to chase these down.
2. With a ranch, you often have access from a basement below and/or an attic above. So, running new wiring really isn't so terrible. If I am doing a substantial rehab, I would rewire a lot of that because it can be done without breaking open walls too much that need to be patched.
3. The solution you describe is considered proper, but FEW people will realize that and the perception of it will be poor. So, I would use it as a last resort. For example, in #1 where you cannot track down where ground was interrupted and where you need an outlet in that location. For a one-off outlet I think its ok, but I think you'll have a negative perception especially when you sell if you do a whole house like that.
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- Kevin PolitePro Member
  OP
  Investor · Decatur Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 610 posts · 232 votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Kevin Sobilo:
  
  @Kevin Polite, a couple thoughts:
  1. The outlets may be ungrounded, but the SYSTEM may be grounded!
  Many systems from that era use a BX style wiring aka a metal shielded cable where there is a strip in the shielding that acts as a ground. All the boxes are metal and bonded to that grounded shielding So, all the boxes themselves are grounded.
  If you have a system like this you can often bond a ground wire to the metal outlet box and catch ground that way OR use a self-grounding outlet that does that for you by having a metal portion that contacts the box.
  Ive not heard of that here in Atlanta specifically Decatur where the majority of homes are brick ranches built in 50-60s. And every home not completely remodeled is like this. I agree but but a Full gut is not in the cards for this and it will be priced as a first time buyer
  1 Reply
Carini Rochester
Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2016 · 576 posts · 358 votes
9mo
One up vote for @Kevin Sobilo, especially point 2. Making the connections in a ranch house might be easier than you think. This is a great question. I own mostly older houses I don't know electricity very well. Figuring out what to do with ungrounded outlets and other old house electrical deficiencies are problems I struggle with.
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James Mc Ree
Rental Property Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 934 votes
9mo
You have to install the GFCIs as required by your local maintenance code. It looks like you are doing that.
For everything else, the easiest route is to label the outlets as ungrounded. That covers you for liability with additional protection if you leave the 2-prong outlets in place. That way, your tenants have to install a 3-prong adapter, so anything that goes wrong due to no grounding is entirely on them, but the 2-prong outlets are less tenant friendly.
Inserting GFCIs into the circuit with the "not grounded" label may provide some additional protection, but it still is not grounded.
I recommend checking to see what it would take to actually ground the circuits. Original 1950s wiring didn't use many circuits. You may find it is easier than you think and access might be available in a crawl space or attic.
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Jeremy Horton
Rental Property Investor · Somewhere over the Rainbow · Member since 2021 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9mo
I have a place like that - I wasn't required to do anything as far as the electrical code. IF I started a permitted rehab, then I would have had to repair the outlets.
I had an electrician simply install GFCI outlets at the first of each branch as you are describing. Cheapest most functional way to remedy that ungrounded issue.
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Dan H.Pro Member
Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
9mo
Contrary to another post, if you place a 3 prong that is not at code at the time placed, you leave yourself exposed to lawsuit and rightfully so.
You are correct that placing a gfci first in circuit and having no ground is to code in most areas if labeled. This should not cause any issue with any competent inspector or abnyone else competent.
So here would be my plan of attack:
- is there a valid ground at the j-box? If so tie the ground to the j-box ground.
- is there easy access from below? If so, ground to grounded piping.
- use the first gfci in circuit route. I have done this in quite a few units. No one has ever said anything about it. The first property I did this for has been a rental since early 2003 without anyone complaining about no ground. If I ever did get a ground I would indicate GFCI protection was to code when the 3 prong outlets were added.
Good luck
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Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
9mo
Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
1 Reply
- Kevin PolitePro Member
  OP
  Investor · Decatur Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 610 posts · 232 votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  After doing a little more digging I've determined that the NEC explicitly allows GFCI protection with proper labeling on ungrounded circuits — that’s not a loophole, it’s straight code. I’m not claiming anything is grounded; the condition is disclosed and the shock risk is mitigated. Liability comes from misrepresentation or negligence, not from following accepted code and disclosure standards. If labeling alone created lawsuits, half the 1950s housing stock in Atlanta would be uninsurable.
  
  1 Reply
- Kevin Sobilo
  Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  Thank you for posting the pic! That is exactly what I was trying to describe in my original response.
  
  The key is to either bond a ground wire to the box with a screw or clip OR they also now sell these self grounding outlets that bond to the box themselves somewhere behind the bottom ear when you screw it down.
  1 Reply
- Kevin Sobilo
  Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Kevin Polite:
  
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  After doing a little more digging I've determined that the NEC explicitly allows GFCI protection with proper labeling on ungrounded circuits — that’s not a loophole, it’s straight code. I’m not claiming anything is grounded; the condition is disclosed and the shock risk is mitigated. Liability comes from misrepresentation or negligence, not from following accepted code and disclosure standards. If labeling alone created lawsuits, half the 1950s housing stock in Atlanta would be uninsurable.
  
  I'll give you one more thought. Since you were concerned about gutting the house to update the electrical.
  
  Another common issue with older houses is insufficient number of outlets. So, in my area it is common to have an OLD bedroom with a single 2 prong outlet in it when I purchase a home.
  
  Many times I will put in a new 20 amp circuit for that room and have just 1 outlet box put in.... THEN I will follow up by building off of that box and wrapping the room in outlets using surface mount metal conduit.
  
  Its easy to do and no patching walls afterwards. In fact I will wait until after they are painted to do the surface mount. In bedrooms it isn't even ugly because once occupied furniture tends to cover most of the room so you can't even see the conduit on the walls much.
  0 Reply
- Dan H.Pro Member
  Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  > My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  It is insufficient and misleading if you just put the sticker on it. I saw no post advocating this. However, in my San Diego jurisdictions it is compliant to put a gfci first in circuit and label the outlets downstream as gfci protected and ungrounded. I had this signed off by inspection about 1.5 years ago on a unit. I did not pull the electrical permit solely to add gfci /3 prong outlets as I was adding a half bathroom and changing the layout to both the kitchen and existing bathroom so needed to pull electrical and plumbing permits for the other work being performed. Basically got my electrical all permitted on the same electrical permit.
  If codes change, they are always changing, it could be important to document when the work was performed so that it can be proved it was compliant when performed. I learned this the hard way when I got a red tag for work that was compliant at the time but jurisdiction required me to prove when the work was done which I was unable to do and seems unreasonable. I had to get the work permitted and inspected to current code.
  1 Reply
- Marcus Auerbach
  Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Kevin Polite:
  
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  After doing a little more digging I've determined that the NEC explicitly allows GFCI protection with proper labeling on ungrounded circuits — that’s not a loophole, it’s straight code. I’m not claiming anything is grounded; the condition is disclosed and the shock risk is mitigated. Liability comes from misrepresentation or negligence, not from following accepted code and disclosure standards. If labeling alone created lawsuits, half the 1950s housing stock in Atlanta would be uninsurable.
  
  Okay, I believe you, but losing a lawsuit is not the main concern. Just having one is bad enough. A friend of mine lost his 4 family to a fire. Probable cause was an overloaded power strip. One dead, several insured. Smoke detectors had been removed by the tenants because of the batteries. The heat from the lower unit was so intense that in the upper unit while it did not burn, everything plastic was molten - like the TV on the wall looked like a Salvador Dali painting.
  
  18 months of investigations, court hearings, attorney meetings, paperwork, insurance correspondence, the family of the victim sued him,... not to mention rebuilding after. Technically, he did everything right: no code violation, because everything was grandfathered in. But had the 1950's apartment building been upgraded to modern standards, provided enough outlets, the tenant would not have been using a power strip from the dollar store, and the building would not have burnt.
  
  He is an engineer and a seasoned landlord with 100+ units, but he said it was the most stressful time of his life. I can guarantee you he would not be putting stickers on outlets to save a few bucks.
  0 Reply
- Dan H.Pro Member
  Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Quote from @Kevin Polite:
  
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  After doing a little more digging I've determined that the NEC explicitly allows GFCI protection with proper labeling on ungrounded circuits — that’s not a loophole, it’s straight code. I’m not claiming anything is grounded; the condition is disclosed and the shock risk is mitigated. Liability comes from misrepresentation or negligence, not from following accepted code and disclosure standards. If labeling alone created lawsuits, half the 1950s housing stock in Atlanta would be uninsurable.
  
  Okay, I believe you, but losing a lawsuit is not the main concern. Just having one is bad enough. A friend of mine lost his 4 family to a fire. Probable cause was an overloaded power strip. One dead, several insured. Smoke detectors had been removed by the tenants because of the batteries. The heat from the lower unit was so intense that in the upper unit while it did not burn, everything plastic was molten - like the TV on the wall looked like a Salvador Dali painting.
  
  18 months of investigations, court hearings, attorney meetings, paperwork, insurance correspondence, the family of the victim sued him,... not to mention rebuilding after. Technically, he did everything right: no code violation, because everything was grandfathered in. But had the 1950's apartment building been upgraded to modern standards, provided enough outlets, the tenant would not have been using a power strip from the dollar store, and the building would not have burnt.
  
  He is an engineer and a seasoned landlord with 100+ units, but he said it was the most stressful time of his life. I can guarantee you he would not be putting stickers on outlets to save a few bucks.
  
  >I can guarantee you he would not be putting stickers on outlets to save a few bucks
  If that is the case it is irrational.
  It is to code in my jurisdictions (to the best of my knowledge all jurisdictions). Contractors do this regularly. I recently had a unit done this way pass an electrical inspection from the city and the inspector only checked 2 circuits (but I had the circuits fully documented to exactly what was on each circuit. This could make checking each circuit easy but it also conveyed that the job was done correctly). 2 circuits being done correctly and my documentation gave the inspector the confidence that all the circuits were done correctly. There is no additional risk versus having a ground. This same inspector required me to install integrated fire alarms even though my permit had nothing to do with the fire alarms (especially silly for this unit because it is a small unit).
  Still if there is a valid ground in the j-box, then use it. If you are swapping the two prong outlet to 3 prong attaching a ground from the j-box is trivial and probably easier than determine the circuit run to find the initial outlet.
  If valid ground is not in j-box, verify gfci with n lieu f ground is to code in your jurisdiction and use it if it is. The code should cover any future resulting issues.
  Good luck
  
  0 Reply
- Marcus Auerbach
  Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Dan H.:
  
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Quote from @Kevin Polite:
  
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  After doing a little more digging I've determined that the NEC explicitly allows GFCI protection with proper labeling on ungrounded circuits — that’s not a loophole, it’s straight code. I’m not claiming anything is grounded; the condition is disclosed and the shock risk is mitigated. Liability comes from misrepresentation or negligence, not from following accepted code and disclosure standards. If labeling alone created lawsuits, half the 1950s housing stock in Atlanta would be uninsurable.
  
  Okay, I believe you, but losing a lawsuit is not the main concern. Just having one is bad enough. A friend of mine lost his 4 family to a fire. Probable cause was an overloaded power strip. One dead, several insured. Smoke detectors had been removed by the tenants because of the batteries. The heat from the lower unit was so intense that in the upper unit while it did not burn, everything plastic was molten - like the TV on the wall looked like a Salvador Dali painting.
  
  18 months of investigations, court hearings, attorney meetings, paperwork, insurance correspondence, the family of the victim sued him,... not to mention rebuilding after. Technically, he did everything right: no code violation, because everything was grandfathered in. But had the 1950's apartment building been upgraded to modern standards, provided enough outlets, the tenant would not have been using a power strip from the dollar store, and the building would not have burnt.
  
  He is an engineer and a seasoned landlord with 100+ units, but he said it was the most stressful time of his life. I can guarantee you he would not be putting stickers on outlets to save a few bucks.
  
  >I can guarantee you he would not be putting stickers on outlets to save a few bucks
  If that is the case it is irrational.
  It is to code in my jurisdictions (to the best of my knowledge all jurisdictions). Contractors do this regularly. I recently had a unit done this way pass an electrical inspection from the city and the inspector only checked 2 circuits (but I had the circuits fully documented to exactly what was on each circuit. This could make checking each circuit easy but it also conveyed that the job was done correctly). 2 circuits being done correctly and my documentation gave the inspector the confidence that all the circuits were done correctly. There is no additional risk versus having a ground. This same inspector required me to install integrated fire alarms even though my permit had nothing to do with the fire alarms (especially silly for this unit because it is a small unit).
  Still if there is a valid ground in the j-box, then use it. If you are swapping the two prong outlet to 3 prong attaching a ground from the j-box is trivial and probably easier than determine the circuit run to find the initial outlet.
  If valid ground is not in j-box, verify gfci with n lieu f ground is to code in your jurisdiction and use it if it is. The code should cover any future resulting issues.
  Good luck
  
  Dan, I think you are missing my point. I don't doubt that it meets code.
  What I am saying is that I don't want to go through an 18-months investigation and having to defend myself in the first place. The stickers will be burnt off. Even if I walk away not guilty in the end, I'd rather do everything I can to prevent a hazardous situation in the first place. Safety has to come first. Also the financial damage: I am insured to purchase price, not the replacement value, a couple of hundred grand difference, plus lost rent, and a year to rebuild..
  0 Reply
- Dan H.Pro Member
  Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
  9mo
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Quote from @Dan H.:
  
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Quote from @Kevin Polite:
  
  Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:
  
  Don't cut corners with electrical stuff! My hair stands up when someone suggests that putting a label on something will prevent a lawsuit.
  If the house is wired with BX, you can use the armor as ground. Pretty easy, we do it all the time.
  
  After doing a little more digging I've determined that the NEC explicitly allows GFCI protection with proper labeling on ungrounded circuits — that’s not a loophole, it’s straight code. I’m not claiming anything is grounded; the condition is disclosed and the shock risk is mitigated. Liability comes from misrepresentation or negligence, not from following accepted code and disclosure standards. If labeling alone created lawsuits, half the 1950s housing stock in Atlanta would be uninsurable.
  
  Okay, I believe you, but losing a lawsuit is not the main concern. Just having one is bad enough. A friend of mine lost his 4 family to a fire. Probable cause was an overloaded power strip. One dead, several insured. Smoke detectors had been removed by the tenants because of the batteries. The heat from the lower unit was so intense that in the upper unit while it did not burn, everything plastic was molten - like the TV on the wall looked like a Salvador Dali painting.
  
  18 months of investigations, court hearings, attorney meetings, paperwork, insurance correspondence, the family of the victim sued him,... not to mention rebuilding after. Technically, he did everything right: no code violation, because everything was grandfathered in. But had the 1950's apartment building been upgraded to modern standards, provided enough outlets, the tenant would not have been using a power strip from the dollar store, and the building would not have burnt.
  
  He is an engineer and a seasoned landlord with 100+ units, but he said it was the most stressful time of his life. I can guarantee you he would not be putting stickers on outlets to save a few bucks.
  
  >I can guarantee you he would not be putting stickers on outlets to save a few bucks
  If that is the case it is irrational.
  It is to code in my jurisdictions (to the best of my knowledge all jurisdictions). Contractors do this regularly. I recently had a unit done this way pass an electrical inspection from the city and the inspector only checked 2 circuits (but I had the circuits fully documented to exactly what was on each circuit. This could make checking each circuit easy but it also conveyed that the job was done correctly). 2 circuits being done correctly and my documentation gave the inspector the confidence that all the circuits were done correctly. There is no additional risk versus having a ground. This same inspector required me to install integrated fire alarms even though my permit had nothing to do with the fire alarms (especially silly for this unit because it is a small unit).
  Still if there is a valid ground in the j-box, then use it. If you are swapping the two prong outlet to 3 prong attaching a ground from the j-box is trivial and probably easier than determine the circuit run to find the initial outlet.
  If valid ground is not in j-box, verify gfci with n lieu f ground is to code in your jurisdiction and use it if it is. The code should cover any future resulting issues.
  Good luck
  
  Dan, I think you are missing my point. I don't doubt that it meets code.
  What I am saying is that I don't want to go through an 18-months investigation and having to defend myself in the first place. The stickers will be burnt off. Even if I walk away not guilty in the end, I'd rather do everything I can to prevent a hazardous situation in the first place. Safety has to come first. Also the financial damage: I am insured to purchase price, not the replacement value, a couple of hundred grand difference, plus lost rent, and a year to rebuild..
  
  I understand your point but your 18 months investigation is no more likely to happen going the Gfci route than the actual ground route. The stickers are not what makes it safe. The stickers are there so inspectors can easily determine they are to code when the tester shows ungrounded and to know when there is no power at outlook to look for a tripped Gfci.
  There is no safety difference. They are both to code in jurisdictions that I am aware of. There is no difference with regard to a lawsuit.
  Here is an analogy: the beam table shows a 4x10 can be used or a 6x6 can be used. No matter which you choose, you are at code. No matter which you choose, if the beam breaks (should never happen) you are at risk of lawsuit. But one choice or the other does not increase/decrease the risk of being sued. In both cases your risk of losing the lawsuit is small especially if signed off by a city inspector (performed via permit).
  Gfci in line is a safe and fairly easy way to address the missing ground issue. I have it in use in 3 of my units, one of which has been signed off by a city inspector.
  I have seem cases where 2 prong outlets have been converted to 3 prong outlets with no protection, no Gfci protection up the line. That is incorrect and certainly has legal risks.
  0 Reply
Alecia LovelessPro Member
Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9mo
@Kevin Polite Ungrounded outlets are very common in older buildings in my area. We simply have our electrician put a GFCI on the first outlet in every room. This is legal in my state and provides a proper ground to all the subsequent outlets along the line in each room.
It solves the problem legally and for less money than grounding every outlet.
It does not however solve the issue that there are usually far less outlets in each room than would be required by today’s building codes.
1 Reply
Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
9mo
Yes, if you protect every curcit with a GFCI you are fine. It detects any difference in current that is leaking from the appliance to a person near instant and shuts off. That effectivley replaces a ground wire and you are NEC compliant. One should know that a GFCI will still tolerate a small current of a few mA for several seconds before it shuts off, only if you get to half an Amp or more it responds much faster.

The OP said "replacing the remaining bedroom and living room outlets with 3 prong receptacles labeled "no equipment ground". If someone plugs in a faulty appliance they'll potentially get electrictuted or cause a fire. That's where I see cutting corners and the risk.

But reading your last sentence we are in agreement.
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