How a $500 problem became a $5000 problem

Question

Hi BP,

Looking for advice regarding one of my rental houses in baltimore.  The original problem that came up in the inspection was that some bricks at the top of the chimney were crumbling. We were told it should only cost $500 to recement them. However, when we replaced the hot water heater about a week ago, the plumber told us there is a carbon monoxide leak due to improper venting through the chimney. Our latest estimate to fix it was around $4500. Has anyone experienced this same problem? Any cheaper solutions or contractor recommendations?

Dell Schlabach · Answer

Furnace and hot water tank can typically be connected to a liner dropped into the chimney, my hvac contractor charges me 250.00.

Liners depending on size, connectors, termination materials for top of chimney can typically be purchased for 75-250.

The chimney repair, if you have loose brick and flashing work would still need done...

I would get a couple more quotes on liner install and you should be able to kerp the project costs 750-1,000 instead of 5,000, in my opinion.

Brandon Ingegneri · Answer

Account Closed

And you DO NOT want your first call to be to the mechanical inspector.  He can mandate a number of extremely costly upgrades.  When you decide what work you are going to do, then pull the permit and have him inspect the work.  Remember, there are good inspectors and ones that couldn't hack it in the trade also.  The guys doing the work every day who know the latest products are the ones you want to utilize that come along with reputable reputations.  Also, when it goes to plumbers... my guy is not the cheapest, and not the most expensive, but he is fair, I make one phone call and know the work will be solid.  This is what you need to find.  Keep in mind, overall plumbing is the most expensive trade your going to run into, and its not going to be something you should try to get the cheapest individual to do.

Pat L. · Answer

Another reason we convert everything to direct venting. The 'common vented' set up you have is a combustion/CO safety problem & one of the most dangerous installation allowed by code.

For the price you quoted we would replace everything including an on-demand HW tank & eliminate the chimney completely.

Roy N. · Answer

Doug,

You are correct, if both the furnace/boiler and domestic hot water tank are direct vented (some call it power vented), then they do not need the chimney at all and could be vented out through the side of the building.   Sometimes the vent and exhaust are run up the chimney for convenience.

If the chimney is not needed, I wouldn't reline it, I'd remove it - it's one of the biggest holes in your building.

Joel Owens · Answer

Get multiple bids so you have  a baseline. You are hearing one proposal to solve the problem. Other companies might have a cheaper solution that is just as effective.

Roy N. · Answer

Account Closed

Even if you stick with a storage tank for domestic hot water (as opposed to on-demand), there are models which are direct vent (pull their combustion air from outside the building envelope and exhaust directly to the exterior).   These tanks, and direct vent gas furnaces/boilers, can be plumbed directly through the side of the building (foundation wall, sill plate, etc) provide the exhaust exists the required distance from an operable window, door, or other air intake.

From an energy efficiency stand-point, direct vented fixtures are preferable as they are not taking their supply of combustion air from the conditioned space of the building (are you have already heated), causing colder, external air to be drawn into the building.

Additionally, as Pat has pointed out, direct vented fixtures reduce the risk of natural gas/propane or CO being drawn back into the conditioned space of the home.

Brandon Ingegneri · Answer

Account Closed

If there are going to repoint your chimney, a fair price is what you were quoted depending on how much cement they need to grind away.  Its really dependent on the labor involved in the particular job.

If the chimney is not being used as a fireplace, don't let them talk you into replacing the flue.  However, the condensation thrown off from a hot water heater and boiler requires individual piping run within the chimney to avoid damage to the mortar, flue, and integrity of the chimney.  You should be looking around $1200-$2000 on the high side.  If it is done improperly or insufficiently sized piping is used, it can not adequately vent CO.  If memory serves me correctly, there needs to be a 5' vent pipe, but check your local building codes.

The meters that accurately detect the parts per million of CO cost thousands and thousands of dollars.  The fire department and the gas company have them.  Very few plumbers have them, and I can almost guarantee no chimney guys do.  Make sure it is properly vented, or the other more costly option would be to install an on demand system.  They can be used for hot water, heat, or hot water and heat.  If you have old heating systems, this may be the best option.These units by code and manufacturer speck have to be directly vented out of the house individually and can not go through an existing chimney.  Usually you will see them vent directly out the side of a property.

An on demand system can typically be installed, labor and materials from 5-7K depending on the current infrastructure of the building in question.  Some plumbers do not know how to properly work on these systems, so it is vital to get the right guy in there.

I know I threw a lot at you, but at least you are a little more informed so that you can make an informed decision.  Good luck.

Doug N. · Answer

Curious minds want to know... why is OP accepting bids for a re-line when it's a vent stack?

Justin Tahilramani · Answer

Account Closed - Remove the ability to use the fireplace (brick/concrete). Fire and tenants is usually a bad combo anyways.

Account Closed · Answer

Thank you, Roy, for the advice. I am learning so much from all of you. Thank you!!

How a $500 problem became a $5000 problem

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