Deal analysis - 710k Triplex in Mid-City (LA)

Deal analysis - 710k Triplex in Mid-City (LA)

Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 1 vote

Hello BiggerPockets members, 

 I live in LA and am looking locally at a growing neighborhood I'm familiar with called West Adams. I'm looking at multi-unit rental properties and trying to run numbers on them to get educated and see what's up. 

I thought I'd ask for input on this one if anyone could help out. It looks decent and with potential for appreciation with cosmetic repairs. 

Triplex (2/1, 1/1, 1/1)

Sold for: 720,000

Sqft: 1,964

Bangalow style units attached side by side 

(+) Actual income: 4,523.50    (property was sold with all 3 units occupied)

(-) Expenses

Property taxes........................800.00

Insurance.............................200.00

Repairs/maintenance...............200.00

Capex.................................100.00

Utilities..............................100.00

Vacancies............................200.00

Management.........................200.00

Total expense........................1,800

Income (NOI?) .....................2,723.00

Then

(+) Income (NOI?) .....................2,723.00
(-) Mortgage at 4.4% 25% DP.........2,704.00

Monthly cashflow.....................19.00 


So looking at this I'm thinking:

- Property seems to break even, but good potential for appreciation with TLC and considering the developing neighborhood

- For reference it doesn't meet the 1% rule, but gets 0.6%, which looks better than many properties in LA

- Large out of pocket for down payment, closing costs and rehab 

My context:

-I'm considering househacking for personal reasons such as: proximity to work, for getting started in rei, because I want to be hands-on in the process and be around the property (at least the first) to learn everything, not necessarily looking for cashflow

-If I moved in then of course the cashflow would become negative, but let's consider good odds of minimizing expenses and growing rents, and this negative cashflow does not exceed what I currently pay in rent

- In a market comparison of 30-40 properties this triplex seems to be a little slightly below market value

Conclusion: When it comes to cashflow and money down this doesn't seem like a good deal, but it looks like an interesting option to me personally. Again, this property is sold and not in the market, I'm just running scenarios to learn.  

So the way this could work is I'd have to commit that large amount out-of-pocket to be able to do this househack, hoping to be able to learn a lot, get appreciation and once that happens refinance the property and move on to a second one with lessons learned.

What do you think? What angles am I missing, is this realistic as far as the numbers go? Thanks in advance for any advice. 

Cheers

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Lee RipmaPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y

@Fred Fleury

You'd be thrilled to have a vacancy. I would suggest SFH for house hacking due to tenants rights in LA. No one should buy MF property in LA without understanding the City of LA RSO.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Robert ChuangPro Member
    Realtor · Arcadia, CA · Member since 2014 · 145 posts · 46 votes
    6y

    @Fred Fleury Another thing to point out is that if you do remove the most recent tenant (probably the highest rent) due to the rent control rule. You might be hurting the cash flow. If you arent replacing the lowest rent tenant. If that make sense? 

    Separate meters for water and eletricity and gas? Utilities seems awfully low 

  • Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 553 posts · 314 votes
    6y

    The only thing that pops out to me is vacancy loss. You shouldn't pro forma the hit on vacancy and rent control. The rents are just a little under market rents for well renovated units. You shouldn't have a vacancy issue.

  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Fred Fleury

    You'd be thrilled to have a vacancy. I would suggest SFH for house hacking due to tenants rights in LA. No one should buy MF property in LA without understanding the City of LA RSO.

  • Member since 2019 · 43 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Fred Fleury

    It seems like a lot of moving parts, work and cash to break even. I didn’t look over all your numbers closely, but what does your return on cash come out to be? I can’t comment on personal reasons to buy or not to buy, but rental properties can’t be a hobby. It has to make money, in my opinion.

  • Member since 2019 · 43 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Fred Fleury

    I can't really tell by your numbers, but it looks like you are saying PITI is $3,700 ish per month, so I assume you are figuring a $500,000 ish mortgage with $200,000 down. If I am even close to being in the right ball park, $19 per month income sure is not a good return on cash.

  • Rental Property Investor · Allentown PA, United States · Member since 2016 · 567 posts · 442 votes
    6y

    @Fred Fleury I would do this if I were you in that situation. It may not cash flow well purely as a rental, but if you consider the savings on your living expenses as extra cash, then your cash on cash would be through the roof compared to other properties. Not to mention all of the other benefits of real estate, most importantly loan paydown on a 720k property that you would only need to put 3.5% down on. If it appreciates 3.5% in a year, that’s a 100% return from appreciation alone right there.

  • Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    Thanks everyone for the answers.

    @Robert Chuang Yes that makes sense, thanks for pointing that out. I'll also be more conservative with the utilities, I did use less than 5% to be able to come up with a non-negative cash flow so I'll adjust that up. 

    @Seth Borman good point, I didn't see that initially. Maybe more realistic numbers would be to lower the vacancy estimate and amp the utilities estimate as pointed by Robert then. Also noted on your eval of market rents, that's good additional info, ty. 

    @Lee Ripma thanks for pointing that out. I think what you mean is (bare with me, I'm learning!) for MF the ideal would be either not be under RSO, or be RSO but being delivered vacant. Avoid the combo RSO + long time tenants already in. Whereas SFH there's just no RSO to worry about. Is this is it? Or did you also mean landlord-tenant rules in general are not favorable? Thanks.

  • Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Robert Nelson thanks for the input. There's no cash on cash return in this deal apparently, which seems to make sense considering it's a central area in Los Angeles. You are correct in the big down payment and nearly or no income. The debate is if this would be a first good investment for me for all the non-cash benefits I mentioned, as stepping stone to more rei deals, instead for example of jumping in and investing oos (or far) with zero experience. But most definitely the long term goal is to learn and have cash generating properties. 

  • Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Bill Goodland thanks for the insight. Do you have any pointers on how you decide how much debt to use? The calculation at 75% financed seems to make the property break even. If I used more debt like you mentioned, it'd cashflow less, but the money would be more leveraged and I'd have more free/non-spent money for repairs or other investments. Would that be it, how do you see this? Thanks a lot! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 33 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    Hi @Fred Fleury congrats on starting to analyze deals, it takes a while to understand the terms and the numbers and what it all means. I'm still studying it. I have a triplex in East LA (LA County, which recently passed rent control regulations so I have yet to see how it plays out. My MF is owner-occupied so I might be OK). I requested it to be delivered vacant bc of repairs and such that I had to put into the building to get it to livable conditions. At the time of purchase this wasn't rent-controlled so I didn't have to pay anyone any money to move, not even the security deposit because the condition in which they left it was so bad. I put in a LOT of money to fix it up, got new tenants (@ fair market rate, bc the old tenants were renting for $900 for a 2bed/2bath), refinanced, and now I'm cash flowing while living in one of the units. I don't have any "cash on cash" return because I put more money than I got out of it but now I have massive equity in the house for a HELOC if I need it.

    One thing to consider bc you're in rent control area is that there are annual inspections and I heard that the inspectors are VERY meticulous and nitpicky and if they see anything, no matter how small, you'll have to replace it or repair it. Like a creaky door knob, etc.

    Hope it helps!

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    6y

    In just about any situation, if you do not buy well under market value or have value add opportunities that create that equity, you likely will not cash flow. 

    Some of your numbers in the expenses appear to be low to me. As an example, if you believe cap ex will be covered with just $100 monthly on 3 units, you will be in for a not so fun surprise down the road. So it is likely that this has negative cash flow once all expenses are accounted for. Others were missing like admin costs, legal, accounting, property management (even if you self manage, you need to pay yourself for it), etc.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 122 posts · 67 votes
    6y

    I agree with all the posts above.

    One thing to include in your calculations are the relocation costs associated for LA RSO. This would affect your CoC returns. Also, the LA RSO laws are more strict than the California Rent Control Laws (AB 1482).

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    @Fred Fleury your interest rate at 4.4% seems high. If you owner occupy you should be able to get a rate in the 3's and save yourself a few hundred bucks a month. Given the property is under LA RSO if you are planning to owner occupy a unit you can use that as a tool to "add value" especially if the unit you move into has significantly under market rent. Legally you can get the tenant out of the lowest rent unit (or any other unit) so you can move in albeit you will have to pay them a not so inexpensive relocation fee of $8k+ (factor this into your rehab budget) but when one day you decide to move out you can re-rent that unit at market rent which will then increase your cash flow and the value of the property. 

    Another thing to consider is your downpayment amount. You've specified 25% which will minimize your mortgage payment and "increase" your cash flow but if you owner occupy you can put much less down. You will have to pay PMI so factor that in too. In the short term your cash flow will be less but if and when the property appreciates (this is LA) your return on equity will be much greater and you may have cash saved from the lower down payment to use for rehab or other deals.

  • Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Wei Cho that's really helpful, especially because we're in the same city. I'm sending you a PM. Thanks

    @Will Barnard thanks for the input, I will add those to the expenses list to make it more realistic and study more of it. I can see if this would be a definite no-go deal with these included. 

  • Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Jeffrey Almonte thanks for pointing that out, I will include this in the Rehab costs like Steve suggested. I'm so glad I started this topic now I know all these things to focus on. 

  • Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Steve Buchanan this is great information. Let me see if I understand, the question I need to answer is: exactly how much leverage can I get and still afford this every month, so that I have more cash for stuff and for a next investment. I think this is it, right? Compromise a little cashflow but really amp the returns? These concepts are becoming clearer, but again I'm very new to this. Thanks. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 119 posts · 51 votes
    6y

    Yes you are asking the right questions. You first need to make sure you can afford the lower cash flow amount (or greater negative cash flow) and then decide if you want to apply greater leverage. Greater leverage will amplify your returns both positively when your investment performs well and negatively when your investment loses money. It also would mean you have less equity in the deal so that if things went badly your equity gets wiped out more quickly and then you find yourself underwater more quickly too. But if you believe that over the long run your investment will make money then the greater the leverage the greater your returns will be. 

  • Lee RipmaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Prairie Village, KS · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Fred Fleury

    Your interpretation of what I said is correct. When you're looking at MF in LA you often have RSO and under market long term tenants. That's why I suggest SFH that are not subject to RSO. You can checkout cities in the LA area that do not have rent control (e.g. East LA) for MF, those are now subject to CA rent control which is far less restrictive than City of LA RSO.

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