First Out Of State BRRRR (During PANDEMIC!)

First Out Of State BRRRR (During PANDEMIC!)

Josh FeldmanPro Member
Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 9 votes

Investment Info:

Single-family residence buy & hold investment in Shelbyville.

Purchase price: $28,000
Cash invested: $72,000

Contributors:
Kwon Do Lee

Successfully built and managed a team to aid in the completion of our first BRRRR project located in Shelbyville, Indiana. Purchase price + rehab cost +Closing costs + Holding costs = $72,000 all in. Renting for $950 per month. Estimated ARV = $95,000 - $100,000. Estimated ROI after refinance >40%. All during a PANDEMIC! Huge credit to Jeff Wallenius (CEO of North Peak Investments and guest on Podcast #241) for mentoring us through the process.

What made you interested in investing in this type of deal?

We want to build our portfolio to 50 units in 5 years and create a long term wealth legacy for us and our families, using passive income to replace our current income down the line. We are starting with SFH's in the midwest because the price to rent ratio's are significantly more desirable than in our respective markets (Long Island, NY and Los Angeles, CA)

How did you find this deal and how did you negotiate it?

We narrowed down our target market and surrounded ourselves with the best of the best in that market that could help us find deals. We found this deal off-market from Jeff Wallenius, whom we built a relationship with during the generation of our business and team. He had a connection that allowed him to whole-sale the deal to us and helped walk us through our first BRRRR, giving us advice and mentorship along the way. We went out to Indiana and met up with the team that we built.

How did you finance this deal?

We funded it with our cash. Kwon Do and I opened an LLC and funded our bank account 50/50 with enough money to cover all expenses on these types of deals. We discovered what we wanted for our target market and demographic/property type and became very familiar with everything involved in making deals work out there. We then funded our account accordingly to make sure we had enough to do continuous BRRRR's.

How did you add value to the deal?

From discussing with our team members, we knew what would be necessary to get top dollar rent out in Shelbyville, Indiana without overpaying for rehab costs. We used fantastic contractors to give us guidance and rehab our interior/exterior accordingly to make sure the property was up to par with the up-and-coming surroundings. We networked with individuals in the neighborhood who were able to give us updates from the ground.

What was the outcome?

We are just waiting to refinance the property (obviously this may be the only cog in the wheel considering the pandemic) but so far our purchase+rehab+closing costs+holding costs were all exactly within our budget to ensure that our ROI was at least 15% and our monthly net cashflow was at least $100-150. We ended up renting for $50 per month higher than originally underwritten because of demand and quality of the rehab. We will be cash flowing even higher with a higher ROI than anticipated.

Lessons learned? Challenges?

We learned to make sure to continuously follow up on our contractors to ensure their original scope of work was completed. Part of the bid was to remove garbage in the crawl space but the interior contractor forgot to take care of it. Our Pest Control guy took pictures of the basement and asked if we knew there was still garbage down there. It is important to make sure everyone holds someone accountable and have multiple checks and balances of each step of the way.

Did you work with any real estate professionals (agents, lenders, etc.) that you'd recommend to others?

We worked with Contractors, Property Managers, Agents, Lenders, Inspectors, and Attorneys. We would recommend using Elisha Drake from Vue Property Management Group (rock star!!) and her team of brokers to help get the ball rolling. She connected us to an awesome agent, to Jeff Wallenius, to our Attorneys, and everything kind of snowballed from there in terms of networking. We vetted every single person using multiple references.

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Most Popular Reply

Investor · Vancouver BC, Canada · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 8 votes
6y

I'm currently doing something very similar but I'm on literally the opposite coast to my property. Let me tell you, if you can go to site it will be much better, but it can be done remotely.

In my current experience it comes down to
a. How much you trust your contractor

b. How much you keep them accountable and its on you to over communicate

For our contractor, he sends before and after photos of everything he does and we set milestones in the contract for payments.

Set communication expectations early and be a stickler. make sure the contractor knows what he's in for and us up to the challenge.
If you're frustrated with something talk to them about it early and ask them if there's anything frustrating them. Explain WHY you want the things you want and how they benefit you both. Most relationships with good contractors fall apart here over silly things that a good adult conversation can nip in the bud.

See this reply in the discussion

14 Replies

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  • Member since 2019 · 25 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    Hi Josh,

    Congratulations on landing the property and executing your first BRRRR! Fantastic ROI and the $950/month rent is just amazing. Can you please share more details on how you network with others and go about having them provided you with the deal? Was it through calling individual agents, connecting with wholesalers via BP, etc.? Beside this, have you had any issues with the tenant and finding the right bank for refinancing due to the pandemic?

  • Whitney HuttenPro Member
    Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Josh Feldman Nice work!  I love how you highlighted the hustle... Keep it up :)

  • Josh FeldmanPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Tran thank you! My partner and I started by reading David Greene's Long Distance Real Estate Investing book. There are so many good pieces of information in there that we used directly from the book to begin networking and educating ourselves. We started with his "core 4," which are the deal finder, contractor, property manager, and lender. We first connected with our property manager through bigger pockets, simply searched for one in our target area, found her email and property group info, and reached out to her. she got right back to us and we started a conversation and really liked the system she had to offer. we vetted her company by asking her for references, some of which came from BP. She connected us to our deal finder and our broker (our deal finder ended up becoming our project manager and we established a cut that we would pay him to still be within our target numbers), and we set up a phone call with them to tell them our goals and strategy. they were on board and helped connect us to contractors, all of whom we talked to over the phone and got multiple references. The lender was just from me and my partner calling as many community banks in the area as we could find and asking them if they have worked with out of state investors, and also telling them our goals and strategy. we found one that we really like and have been in constant communication with him the whole way. the final step for us was to go to Indiana and meet with our team, take them all out to lunch/dinner, and get to know them on a more personal basis and motivate them to work hard with us and for us, that we werent a flash in the pan investor group, and we were in it for the long haul and really believed in our system and market. we also jumped on one of the first deals he brought us to show him we werent joking around. we made it happen and our deal finder got his cut and everyone was happy :). No issues with tenant so far, our Prop Manager has a system in place to deal with issues up to a certain cost, and contacts us for issues above that cost.

  • Member since 2019 · 58 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    How did you narrow down the target area? Or is your target area broader than Indy suburbs? And how is the deal finder different from your broker? I just bought the BRRRR book by David G., but maybe I'll have to buy the long distance investing book as well :)

  • Josh FeldmanPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    @Jack Plantin we started by looking at areas where we could get high rents with low purchase price. We wanted to buy and rehab with cash (my partner and I split 50/50) and we were set on BRRRR technique to build our portfolio. We actually signed up with a lot of turnkey rental companies that sent us turnkey rentals in the midwest (again, best rents with lowest all in costs), and used the areas that they sent us as a starting place. we narrowed it down further by looking for residential areas outside of major cities, within 30 minute commuting distance, and then narrowed it down even further by only looking at city suburbs that have great school districts. After all that, we had 3 or 4 towns that we really liked, and just started networking with professionals in that specific area.

    Ultimately we used the turnkey rental companies to show us where in the midwest that the rents were high and the costs were low and we just narrowed it down from there.

    Our deal finder is different from our broker. our deal finder is also our project manager; our broker was there to help us with the remote closing and we were able to negotiate her commission. she also gave us connects to contractors that she likes. Our broker also runs a rehab oversight company that we used (she and her husband have construction background), which mediates the rehab with the contractors and follows up weekly to make sure the scope of work is actually achieved, sending us pictures and verifying everything is done correctly and timely. HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS if you are doing out of state flipping/brrrring.

    Also definitely recommend the long distance investing book. he gives you step by step instructions how to build a team at a distance and outlines exactly what to say to who in order to get the maximum results. 

    Good luck and let me know if i can answer any other questions!

  • Member since 2019 · 58 posts · 9 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Josh Feldman:

    @Jack Plantin we started by looking at areas where we could get high rents with low purchase price. We wanted to buy and rehab with cash (my partner and I split 50/50) and we were set on BRRRR technique to build our portfolio. We actually signed up with a lot of turnkey rental companies that sent us turnkey rentals in the midwest (again, best rents with lowest all in costs), and used the areas that they sent us as a starting place. we narrowed it down further by looking for residential areas outside of major cities, within 30 minute commuting distance, and then narrowed it down even further by only looking at city suburbs that have great school districts. After all that, we had 3 or 4 towns that we really liked, and just started networking with professionals in that specific area.

    Ultimately we used the turnkey rental companies to show us where in the midwest that the rents were high and the costs were low and we just narrowed it down from there.

    Our deal finder is different from our broker. our deal finder is also our project manager; our broker was there to help us with the remote closing and we were able to negotiate her commission. she also gave us connects to contractors that she likes. Our broker also runs a rehab oversight company that we used (she and her husband have construction background), which mediates the rehab with the contractors and follows up weekly to make sure the scope of work is actually achieved, sending us pictures and verifying everything is done correctly and timely. HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS if you are doing out of state flipping/brrrring.

    Also definitely recommend the long distance investing book. he gives you step by step instructions how to build a team at a distance and outlines exactly what to say to who in order to get the maximum results. 

    Good luck and let me know if i can answer any other questions!

    Very cool, I think I've seen other people mention turnkey websites like roofstock to find good areas. Very helpful. You and your partner split the cash 50/50, why invest your own cash instead of taking out a HML? And how did you and Kwon split responsibilities for this project if you're both outside of IN? How are you splitting profits? Sorry if I'm prying too much.

    I'm going to send you a PM about Shelbyville since I am just a few hours away, might be a good area to start as well.

  • Rental Property Investor · Oregon City, OR · Member since 2020 · 324 posts · 780 votes
    6y

    @Josh Feldman

    That's awesome, and really inspiring as well. I've just started investing OOS and am looking to add another to my portfolio pretty soon.

    What did you use to determine the area you wanted to invest in? I've seen some props I've been interested in but after repairs the equity just isn't there. Who did you need on your team before you pulled the trigger?

    That's a great first investment. Good luck moving forward!

  • Josh FeldmanPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    Hey @Joseph Crunkilton, thanks so much for the kind words! Good luck with your investing, OOS is tough of course but can be rewarding with the right team and systems.

    See the post above that I sent to @Jack Plantin, I answer your questions pretty specifically. You can also always PM me if you want to talk further.

    Thanks!

  • Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 78 posts · 66 votes
    6y

    @Josh Feldman

    Congrats Josh. I’m hoping I can do something similar in the future.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Portland OR / Los Angeles CA · Member since 2020 · 15 posts · 35 votes
    6y

    @Josh Feldman - Awesome insight here! Thank you for your post. 

    I'm going to be rehabbing a house in SoCal. Initially, I had planned to visit the site frequently to keep an eye on the renovations. But due to the pandemic, I am weighing the pros and cons of trying to manage the rehab from out of state. Being that this will be my first flip and don't have a team there I've worked with before, do you think it would be unwise to rely on frequent video conferencing and photo updates to make sure the work was being done as outlined in the contract?

  • Investor · Vancouver BC, Canada · Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    I'm currently doing something very similar but I'm on literally the opposite coast to my property. Let me tell you, if you can go to site it will be much better, but it can be done remotely.

    In my current experience it comes down to
    a. How much you trust your contractor

    b. How much you keep them accountable and its on you to over communicate

    For our contractor, he sends before and after photos of everything he does and we set milestones in the contract for payments.

    Set communication expectations early and be a stickler. make sure the contractor knows what he's in for and us up to the challenge.
    If you're frustrated with something talk to them about it early and ask them if there's anything frustrating them. Explain WHY you want the things you want and how they benefit you both. Most relationships with good contractors fall apart here over silly things that a good adult conversation can nip in the bud.

  • Josh FeldmanPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Long Island, NY · Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    @Rachel C. Sorry about the delayed response. Definitely agree with what @Layton Gilbraith mentioned. It's hard to conduct any project from out of state if you dont have a reliable and trustworthy team in place. I would network with as many people as you can in your area that you essentially could pay to oversee the rehab, or manage the project for you, and just make sure to take care of them financially and underwrite that cost into your calculations. If you have a family member or a good friend close to the property that is familiar with real estate and construction/contract work, that would be a good place to start!

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 10 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    Thank you all for your responses! I am Josh's partner for this little venture here and we were both very involved in this whole process together and can answer any questions about this deal anyone might have. Please feel free to reach out!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Leominster, MA · Member since 2020 · 667 posts · 384 votes
    6y

    That's amazing!!!  I love your goal - 50 units in 5 years, that will put you in a great position financially over the long term.  Congrats on the deal. 

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