Joe McCall Scam? Read This Before You Buy His Programs...

Joe McCall Scam? Read This Before You Buy His Programs...

Investor · San Diego · Member since 2020 · 29 posts · 35 votes

This post is about Joe McCall and his course, coaching, and programs, it will be a detailed review with my own experience being apart of his Course and Programs...

If you were in the same shoes I was when I attended his webinar, I was also extremely convinced Joe would fully deliver all of his promises and that his Lease Options strategy would be the best. As I looked at the course I saw that it was WAY OVER my budget and cost $1500! But considering that he was offering me a 90 day guarantee, what could hurt by trying it? 

Quality of the Course

Once you get started, you don't get a correct introduction and just bombarded by an armada of information. Instead of showing you how to do Lease Options with a few basic tools he'll try to push you to his Upsells so he can make more money off of you through his REI Simple CRM and other programs right from the start! DO NOT FALL FOR IT! Here's are the steps which I followed in the intro: Step #1 - Watch This Welcome Video, Step #2 - Join The Private Facebook Group Below, Step #3 - Register For One Of Our Weekly Onboarding Calls For New Students, Step #4 - Sign Up For REI Simple, etc... Right from the introduction in the course he tries to get you to upsell you with REI Simple without knowing much about it. I signed up and that was a huge mistake (I'll cover more of it later). In the first video he spends around 5 minutes trying to explain Lease Options but completely fails. You don't get to understand the basics of it and how to do Lease Options without the complex tools until later on all because it's overloaded with irrelevant information that is not necessary at the start. I mean even by the third video of Module 1 you're stuck on a 16 minute video of him trying to upsell you with his CRM so you can to Automate it when you don't even know the basics! How can you automate your Lease Options Business with REI Simple and VA's on your first day or even month of doing it? You have no foundation at all, but he wants you to pay and sign up? Wow. Each video throughout the course consists of staring at a mind-map presentation and listening to his monotone commentary. Many of the videos are old and there is little effort put into the quality of them. It's more of a Reading off his mind-map presentation and rambling rather than getting straight to the point and teaching you throughout the Entire Course.

The Quality of his Coaching

As a student I had access to his Facebook groups and some of his coaching calls, they were okay and they pretty much answered questions for you however it was usually someone other than Joe who helped me out. Some of the videos he provides are all the way from 2010 and 2013 and just outdated.The way he explains things can be extremely confusing and the quality is not worth the price. I thought I was being a bad listener/student at first but I began to talk to others in his private facebook group and they agreed they became frustrated, bored, and the videos were unclear. There were many points where I became so frustrated with myself with being overwhelmed and also not being able to understand that I was ripping my hair from my head! After being in the course for a while you notice a lot of the things he does is outsourced, which is super amazing since he can run it hands off but the only problem is that it lacks real sincerity of 1 on 1 coaching. Without the 1 on 1 coaching the price for the course is not worth it, you only get access to the lengthy videos and under delivered bonuses. He's a great person, and he's really got everything into detail but the course is just too overwhelming and there's not enough effort put into it with the coaching aspect.

The Price

The Price for the Course, and the upsells are by far the worst. $1500 for a course? Sorry but that price just seems ridiculous, for the lack of the support, clarity, and quality of the course content it's worth more around $100 or less. Many of the bonuses have certain terms that are an upsell such as REI Simple and the VA Center he provides. REI Simple is not free, they make it so that you have to try it for 3 months so you have to either get your refund on the course (90 Day Money Back) or on REI Simple (after the 90 days/3months) You can't really try it to see if it works out without paying for it. The VA Center with 10 Hours free? Nope! You have to pay $60 for the "Set Up Fee".

But it’s okay because if the course isn’t really worth it because you have the 90 Day Money Back Guarantee right?

Wrong! It’s now a 30 day Policy! 

And remember the REI Simple Program that you signed up for but didn't use? Well you won't get reimbursed!

And it didn’t just happen to me…

Here is another student who was not able to get a refund, he even goes to say that he can't get a refund for REI Simple either or for the other programs he bought.

“I did this 5 seller a day challenge thing for $500 last month and they said they wouldn't be picky with proof of completion. They ended up being super picky with mine and declining a bunch of others. Now they want me to send a picture holding the check that was technically my money from the start.”

Reading this it made me wonder why he would ask for a picture for the refunded check. Maybe it’s for fake testimonials?

Basically to sum up:

The quality...bad

Coaching...bad

Price...horrible (Once you get in you get upsells left and right so he can make even more off of you)

Overall the course is not worth it at all, it completely under delivers for the price you pay and the time you invest into it. Do not get it.

If you really want to Learn Lease Options, search up REI Conscious on youtube. I found it to be better than the videos by Joe and it's free. Thanks for reading, Stay Safe everyone.

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Most Popular Reply

Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
6y

@Ryan Phu

Since you're new to investing, you have now been introduced to the guru model. I know nothing about McCall but it sounds like his "coaching" model is in line with other gurus. $1,500 is NOT much for a solid coaching program even though you now know it is only a teaser price. You lacked the due diligence necessary to understand how this model works. This in itself is part of your education. I've known new investors who have lost more than $50K on coaching programs so count your blessings and learn from your mistake. Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Some people benefit from paying a lot of money for basic advice (that's otherwise free on the web) but remember that a stopped clock will tell you the correct time twice a day.

  • Investor · Crystal Lake, IL · Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    6y

    It's just another guru on the market. I haven't seen this many gurus in any other indurstries like in the real estate. This is unbelievable. As soon as somebody buy/sell 10-20 properties becomes some kind of guru. 

    Same with Jerry Norton (flipping mastery). Until the end of 2nd phone meeting you believe you'll work with Jerry but in just one sentence during 30 minute contract agreement review speach (if you even listen by that point) they say you'll work with his "team of experts". Paying premium to work with his clerks! Not to mention that the speach is recorded and they play it for you while you think person is on the other side (I found out by accident because I had a question during the speach, recorded speach didn't stop even I was trying to stop him multiple times) :( Sad but true. 

    I believe there are a good people out there really willing to help, it's just hard to find them.

  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 270 posts · 217 votes
    6y

    If they were good at real estate, they'd be in real estate, not education.

  • Real Estate Entrepreneur · Owasso, OK · Member since 2015 · 220 posts · 154 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sam B.:

    If they were good at real estate, they'd be in real estate, not education.

    ---

    That post seems overly generalized. Can someone not be a rock star at real estate and then also choose to mentor and teach others? How about all the education that is lead by the BP teams? 

    Anyways I guess we see this differently.

    I thought it was pretty stand-up of @Joe McCall to come on here and publicly apologize to the original post. For the record, I purchased (or got free) a book from Joe years ago called "Brilliant at the Basics" and it was legitimately a valuable resource that helped me in my business. 

  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 270 posts · 217 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michael Slockers:
    Originally posted by @Sam B.:

    If they were good at real estate, they'd be in real estate, not education.

    ---

    That post seems overly generalized. Can someone not be a rock star at real estate and then also choose to mentor and teach others? How about all the education that is lead by the BP teams? 

    Anyways I guess we see this differently.

    I thought it was pretty stand-up of @Joe McCall to come on here and publicly apologize to the original post. For the record, I purchased (or got free) a book from Joe years ago called "Brilliant at the Basics" and it was legitimately a valuable resource that helped me in my business.  

    You're right, we shouldn't judge all gurus, only 95% of them are snake oil salesmen. My apologies to the other 5%.

    The simple fact of the matter is most of these guys are lying about their success in real estate, and to whatever extent they are not, their expert knowledge consists mostly of things you could learn by reading BiggerPockets for a few days. The only thing unique to these coaches is that you pay them thousands of dollars for brainwashing, sorry, I mean, "motivation".

    Now I don't know anything about Joe Mccall but everything the OP posted screams snake oil salesman. "You get $1,000 off if you buy it in the next hour". LOL.

    I'll just put it this way - virtually all of the people who I meet out in the real world actually operating and owning profitable businesses don't even have a Youtube channel, and most of them have never learned anything from anyone who does.

    PS Anyone who uses the word rockstar to describe themselves is not to be trusted.

  • Real Estate Entrepreneur · Owasso, OK · Member since 2015 · 220 posts · 154 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Sam B.:
    Originally posted by @Michael Slockers:
    Originally posted by @Sam B.:

    If they were good at real estate, they'd be in real estate, not education.

    ---

    That post seems overly generalized. Can someone not be a rock star at real estate and then also choose to mentor and teach others? How about all the education that is lead by the BP teams? 

    Anyways I guess we see this differently.

    I thought it was pretty stand-up of @Joe McCall to come on here and publicly apologize to the original post. For the record, I purchased (or got free) a book from Joe years ago called "Brilliant at the Basics" and it was legitimately a valuable resource that helped me in my business.  

    You're right, we shouldn't judge all gurus, only 95% of them are snake oil salesmen. My apologies to the other 5%.

    The simple fact of the matter is most of these guys are lying about their success in real estate, and to whatever extent they are not, their expert knowledge consists mostly of things you could learn by reading BiggerPockets for a few days. The only thing unique to these coaches is that you pay them thousands of dollars for brainwashing, sorry, I mean, "motivation".

    Now I don't know anything about Joe Mccall but everything the OP posted screams snake oil salesman. "You get $1,000 off if you buy it in the next hour". LOL.

    I'll just put it this way - virtually all of the people who I meet out in the real world actually operating and owning profitable businesses don't even have a Youtube channel, and most of them have never learned anything from anyone who does.

    PS Anyone who uses the word rockstar to describe themselves is not to be trusted.

    ---

    I'm sure we are splitting hairs at this point. Just FYI, "rock star" was my word, not theirs. I was only using the term to imply someone who has earned their stripes as a successful real estate investor.

    I've personally benefited greatly from free and paid coaching. I've also benefited greatly from BP and by the way, BP is not a non-profit to my knowledge. I can honestly say it has taken the free resources in addition to paid coaching to get me where I'm at today. I'm thankful for it. 

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    6y

    I have not taken the course and will not offer an opinion on it but provide my 2 cents on any type of "guru" training. A quick google search will show the marketing techniques which is

    1. Always give away your best information for free. Then people will think there is far greater info and will pay for it.

    2. Have a lower priced course to get people in the door. This training is not organized and it goes all over the place to highlight how awesome whatever the training is, but provides no real meat BUT if you sign up today we can sell you our $25,000 course for $15,000.....

    3. People feel scammed because they paid $15k and have not gotten any further than the free information that was already out there.

    I probably missed a step but you get the gist.

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  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Simple test.  If anyone who professes to teach you something about real estate cannot or will not identify 10-20 specific, verifiable addresses they currently own and rent out, or have flipped, or optioned away or syndicated or whatever, they do not deserve any of your money.  There are dozens of great paperback books for $19.99 or thereabouts that contain the basic information you will need.  Save your hard earned cash for down payments and repairs.     

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Chris Seveney:

    I have not taken the course and will not offer an opinion on it but provide my 2 cents on any type of "guru" training. A quick google search will show the marketing techniques which is

    1. Always give away your best information for free. Then people will think there is far greater info and will pay for it.

    2. Have a lower priced course to get people in the door. This training is not organized and it goes all over the place to highlight how awesome whatever the training is, but provides no real meat BUT if you sign up today we can sell you our $25,000 course for $15,000.....

    3. People feel scammed because they paid $15k and have not gotten any further than the free information that was already out there.

    I probably missed a step but you get the gist.

    I just learned something from that post. Somehow it never really dawned on me that they give their best information for free. Now that you mentioned it that is exactly the case from what I have seen. I have been to a lot of trainings over the years as well as very inexpensive boot camps that try to sell you the $20,000 mentorship toward the end of the class.

  • Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    My understanding is lease options are very effective in a buyer's market which is certainly not right now. I don't think anyone selling a lease option strategy is going to be very effective right now.

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kevin Lee Lawrence:

    My understanding is lease options are very effective in a buyer's market which is certainly not right now. I don't think anyone selling a lease option strategy is going to be very effective right now.

    Yep. As Optionee/ 'buyer' they are more effective in a buyers market. The sellers are struggling to sell, have low equity and are facing a move or sudden problem.  Not common at all these days. 

    My last half dozen were as the Optionor/ seller.  I'm not motivated, but the homes needed work I didn't want to do or I did if for strategic tax or debt shell game reasons. I gave my Optionees a square deal. 

    it's not a bad thing to know how to properly execute lease options but I wouldn't pay money to learn it or think I was going to build wealth with it.  It is a state--spedific, specialty tool not used all that often as the buyer/ Optionee at this stage of the market cycle. 

    Be wary of CL ads offering homes as RTO. Usually always a ripoff from a shady investor seller.

  • Investor · IL · Member since 2019 · 151 posts · 135 votes
    6y

    In summary the OP contracted for this course, didn't like the content, requested a refund and received it. Then proceeded to proclaim on a public forum that the course was a scam, and led people to believe that he had paid $1500 for the course and didn't get his money back. No matter how you feel about about the guru model it it looks as if Mr. McCall acted in good faith. In my opinion Mr McCall is not the scammer in this case.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Darius Ogloza:

    Simple test.  If anyone who professes to teach you something about real estate cannot or will not identify 10-20 specific, verifiable addresses they currently own and rent out, or have flipped, or optioned away or syndicated or whatever, they do not deserve any of your money.  There are dozens of great paperback books for $19.99 or thereabouts that contain the basic information you will need.  Save your hard earned cash for down payments and repairs.    

    not to mention you can go on E bay and for 50 bucks or less you can buy any Guru's printed materials or tapes.. they all give them at the start of their seminars in exchange for the big fee's folks pay to go.. then when they never use the stuff it get recirculated.. But there is only so many ways to skin the real estate cat.. nothing new or novel in most transactions.. Just like the BRRR that is talked about on this site.. shoot we were doing those 30 years ago.. we just called it cash out refi.. so you take someone who just brands it and folks think is some great idea that was just created..

  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    Excellent points. I was doing BRRRR projects before I ever new it was called something other than cash out refi. The presentation of the BRRRR is very compelling, but there are only so many ways to present a concept. I believe the idea is to put your own twist to a concept. You can mimic someone's system, but it will never be 100% duplicatable. You'll always put your own flavor to a concept.

  • Specialist · Seattle, WA · Member since 2020 · 43 posts · 17 votes
    6y

    Jay,

    You don’t know how much I value and appreciate your straight forward comments. This is exactly why I joined BiggerPockets to learn and be educated by experienced Real Estate Investors like yourself Jay Hinrichs. I too, have looked seriously into the many, many, online Real Estate Guru’s that are offering one on one training. After further review, I am not getting one on one coaching from the Real Estate Guru, it will be done by one of their staff members once or twice a week by phone maybe. 

    Thank you for your comments,

    Rod Lambe

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Rod Lambe:

    Jay,

    You don’t know how much I value and appreciate your straight forward comments. This is exactly why I joined BiggerPockets to learn and be educated by experienced Real Estate Investors like yourself Jay Hinrichs. I too, have looked seriously into the many, many, online Real Estate Guru’s that are offering one on one training. After further review, I am not getting one on one coaching from the Real Estate Guru, it will be done by one of their staff members once or twice a week by phone maybe. 

    Thank you for your comments,

    Rod Lambe

    there are one on one trainers out there.  at least they were.. but they are expensive.. they take on maybe 5 to 7 students at a time and charge around 100k each for the year..  I know one person who paid this and thought they got great value.. Although I see this person has now morphed into just being a real estate agent as i suspect he was letting way too much business slip through his hands just trying to be a wholesaler..  But generally speaking the training business is just like any other small to mid size corporation.. you only have one owner or CEO and they manage folks under them.. I have been invited to be a trainer for a few different training companies. While i was humbled it was not something I was personally interested in. I would be more interested in the 5 to 7 people basically be with them 24/7 for a year and charge the 100k per.. I think the value to the trainer would be worth it and I suspect the student will get the best education possible.

    Thats a different perspective.. the guru's cannot be national gurus and be at the street level  too many students in to many time zones. I guess they could record all their presentations then just rehash webinars ??

  • Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    6y
    @Steve Vaughan I wonder since you aren't finding lease options relevant in today's market what you suggest for new investors with little cash...is there any option you would suggest in todays market?

    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Others may disagree with your findings but I found the info helpful.  Lease Options are not hard.  They are also not prevalent in this stage of the market cycle.  I did a ton 10 years ago when lots of people had little equity.  May become more than a dusty tool again someday.

  • Investor · Seal Beach, CA · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 29 votes
    6y

    I have taken a couple of Joe's courses (free and paid) and found them very helpful @Joe McCall.I can't recall the price, but if it was $500 or $1,500, it was worth it to me, as I learned a lot about marketing in addition to lease options. As far as him upselling, it doesn't bother me. He mentioned REI Simple and that he gets a commission - full disclosure. I have no issue with that at all. If the CRM works well (I have not tried it yet - but I will along with others I've heard of. They offer free trials or are not expensive anyway). Any of you use Propstream? I am and used a link from someone who was plugging it on youtube I used to watch often. That person is obviously making something off it, but I am paying the same amount I would have paid had I gone direct. It's the least I could do to "thank" him for all the free content on YouTube.

  • Wholesaler · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 163 posts · 37 votes
    5y

    I've purchased Joe McCall's coaching and used his Lease Option Strategies and made multiple 5 figures through his teachings alone.

    sorry you had a bad experience @Ryan Phu, but my guess is that it would've been much better if you got a deal from it correct?  

    just curious dude, how many sellers did you talk to and make offers to in your 6 weeks in the program? 

    There are bad and fake "gurus" out there, but Joe is not one of them and he is one of the two mentors that gave me exactly what I needed to get started in my real estate business. 

    without him, I'd still be in my 9-5. 

    thanks @Joe McCall

  • Ross WilliamsPro Member
    Investor · Boston MA, Big Sky MT · Member since 2014 · 78 posts · 67 votes
    5y

    No seller in their right mind would agree to a lease option in this market.   

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Luke Petrozza:

    I've purchased Joe McCall's coaching and used his Lease Option Strategies and made multiple 5 figures through his teachings alone.

    sorry you had a bad experience @Ryan Phu, but my guess is that it would've been much better if you got a deal from it correct?  

    just curious dude, how many sellers did you talk to and make offers to in your 6 weeks in the program? 

    There are bad and fake "gurus" out there, but Joe is not one of them and he is one of the two mentors that gave me exactly what I needed to get started in my real estate business. 

    without him, I'd still be in my 9-5. 

    thanks @Joe McCall

    a lot of these programs work MUCH better in certain parts of the country. and  Western PA I believe is one of those. Tons of old homes that cost less than replacement value.. resales not easy lots of differed maintenance on them etc etc..  Basically all up and down the mid west markets.

    but you get to other areas of the country were used houses sell for more than New construction  and there are low inventories etc.. and trying to talk someone into a lease with the option to buy  is much tougher to a basic non starter.. Need to see what your market you live and work in presents for these kind of opportunities..  PA though has just passed some legislation I believe or working on it.. that is going to tighten up the lease with option to purchase investor.. From what I read to many investors talking lease to own folks into these contracts without fully qualify them and then when the lessor fails you boot them out and keep their down payment..

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Ross Williams:

    No seller in their right mind would agree to a lease option in this market. 

    took me two paragraphs above to say the same thing  .  but some parts of the country there is lots of old stock that can be recycled.

    I mean you could go into Gary indiana right now and buy 100 homes straight away..  its location dependant.. 

    But your right in our west coast mountain west this is a fantasy.. 

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Ross Williams I don’t know about Joe’s lease option program but I know about lease options and we love to sell on lease options. They work great in Arizona and we just started doing them in North Carolina as well. So far we have about 60 lease options (10 or more since the beginning of this year). So I’m not sure why you would think that a seller wouldn’t be in their right mind to sell in a lease option right now.

  • Wholesaler · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2013 · 163 posts · 37 votes
    5y
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Luke Petrozza:
    @Jay Hinrichs

    Exactly some markets this works some its lame to even try it..  you just waste a ton of your time..  

    I fund two groups that do these deals and they are both in PA and I do about 20 plus of them a year for these guys.  so its real world feedback..  In our markets on the west coast trying to find that unicorn seller that would actually go for this  would be a ton of time and effort . Like I said its very market dependent and there has been a lot of abuse on the Investors using this model to sell on lease option knowing full well they will get the house back in a few years .. Just sayin.. I used to fund a group in Detroit in the early 2000s that did hundreds of these just like this.. their average lease options tenant made it 18 months.. And they lease the homes with options without doing ANY rehab.  they use us for their acquisition FAST cash  then do the lease option.  as most of these were institutional owned so leasing them from the lenders who want to liquidate did not work.  but the exit was the lease option.. 

    Many ways to make money in real estate no doubt  and market conditions do matter. 

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