Joe McCall Scam? Read This Before You Buy His Programs...

67 Replies

This post is about Joe McCall and his course, coaching, and programs, it will be a detailed review with my own experience being apart of his Course and Programs...

If you were in the same shoes I was when I attended his webinar, I was also extremely convinced Joe would fully deliver all of his promises and that his Lease Options strategy would be the best. As I looked at the course I saw that it was WAY OVER my budget and cost $1500! But considering that he was offering me a 90 day guarantee, what could hurt by trying it? 

Quality of the Course

Once you get started, you don't get a correct introduction and just bombarded by an armada of information. Instead of showing you how to do Lease Options with a few basic tools he'll try to push you to his Upsells so he can make more money off of you through his REI Simple CRM and other programs right from the start! DO NOT FALL FOR IT! Here's are the steps which I followed in the intro: Step #1 - Watch This Welcome Video, Step #2 - Join The Private Facebook Group Below, Step #3 - Register For One Of Our Weekly Onboarding Calls For New Students, Step #4 - Sign Up For REI Simple, etc... Right from the introduction in the course he tries to get you to upsell you with REI Simple without knowing much about it. I signed up and that was a huge mistake (I'll cover more of it later). In the first video he spends around 5 minutes trying to explain Lease Options but completely fails. You don't get to understand the basics of it and how to do Lease Options without the complex tools until later on all because it's overloaded with irrelevant information that is not necessary at the start. I mean even by the third video of Module 1 you're stuck on a 16 minute video of him trying to upsell you with his CRM so you can to Automate it when you don't even know the basics! How can you automate your Lease Options Business with REI Simple and VA's on your first day or even month of doing it? You have no foundation at all, but he wants you to pay and sign up? Wow. Each video throughout the course consists of staring at a mind-map presentation and listening to his monotone commentary. Many of the videos are old and there is little effort put into the quality of them. It's more of a Reading off his mind-map presentation and rambling rather than getting straight to the point and teaching you throughout the Entire Course.

The Quality of his Coaching

As a student I had access to his Facebook groups and some of his coaching calls, they were okay and they pretty much answered questions for you however it was usually someone other than Joe who helped me out. Some of the videos he provides are all the way from 2010 and 2013 and just outdated.The way he explains things can be extremely confusing and the quality is not worth the price. I thought I was being a bad listener/student at first but I began to talk to others in his private facebook group and they agreed they became frustrated, bored, and the videos were unclear. There were many points where I became so frustrated with myself with being overwhelmed and also not being able to understand that I was ripping my hair from my head! After being in the course for a while you notice a lot of the things he does is outsourced, which is super amazing since he can run it hands off but the only problem is that it lacks real sincerity of 1 on 1 coaching. Without the 1 on 1 coaching the price for the course is not worth it, you only get access to the lengthy videos and under delivered bonuses. He's a great person, and he's really got everything into detail but the course is just too overwhelming and there's not enough effort put into it with the coaching aspect.

The Price

The Price for the Course, and the upsells are by far the worst. $1500 for a course? Sorry but that price just seems ridiculous, for the lack of the support, clarity, and quality of the course content it's worth more around $100 or less. Many of the bonuses have certain terms that are an upsell such as REI Simple and the VA Center he provides. REI Simple is not free, they make it so that you have to try it for 3 months so you have to either get your refund on the course (90 Day Money Back) or on REI Simple (after the 90 days/3months) You can't really try it to see if it works out without paying for it. The VA Center with 10 Hours free? Nope! You have to pay $60 for the "Set Up Fee".

But it’s okay because if the course isn’t really worth it because you have the 90 Day Money Back Guarantee right?

Wrong! It’s now a 30 day Policy! 

And remember the REI Simple Program that you signed up for but didn't use? Well you won't get reimbursed!

And it didn’t just happen to me…

Here is another student who was not able to get a refund, he even goes to say that he can't get a refund for REI Simple either or for the other programs he bought.

“I did this 5 seller a day challenge thing for $500 last month and they said they wouldn't be picky with proof of completion. They ended up being super picky with mine and declining a bunch of others. Now they want me to send a picture holding the check that was technically my money from the start.”

Reading this it made me wonder why he would ask for a picture for the refunded check. Maybe it’s for fake testimonials?

Basically to sum up:

The quality...bad

Coaching...bad

Price...horrible (Once you get in you get upsells left and right so he can make even more off of you)

Overall the course is not worth it at all, it completely under delivers for the price you pay and the time you invest into it. Do not get it.

If you really want to Learn Lease Options, search up REI Conscious on youtube. I found it to be better than the videos by Joe and it's free. Thanks for reading, Stay Safe everyone.

@Ryan Phu

Joe's course is done very well. I've done several and his is easy to use, step by step. Plus the price is great vaule.

Only issue I see is, doesn't stress the importance of understanding the laws. I've come cross several of his students that tell the sellers there going to find a buyer, make their money doing an assignment fee, being a middle man. It's going to create a problem for the industry how their not educated in this area.

Over all his courses is one of the best real estate courses out there. I highly recommend it

@Ryan Phu

Since you're new to investing, you have now been introduced to the guru model. I know nothing about McCall but it sounds like his "coaching" model is in line with other gurus. $1,500 is NOT much for a solid coaching program even though you now know it is only a teaser price. You lacked the due diligence necessary to understand how this model works. This in itself is part of your education. I've known new investors who have lost more than $50K on coaching programs so count your blessings and learn from your mistake. Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. 

@Ryan Phu I’ve known people who have spent 50k on a real estate education program and said that it was a ripoff scam.  I also know people who have spent more than that on a real estate education program and they thought it was a bargain for all that they ended up getting out of the program. Granted, there are some programs which are better than others. But most of the time I think that the difference between the different people is what they were expecting to get out of the program in relation to the amount of work they would have to put in to get what they expected.  So let me ask you, what did you expect to get out of the $1500 program?

I was expecting a well put together course. I had no idea what to expect except for generous coaching by Joe. From his seminar, it seemed like he really cared about teaching Lease Options and I expected the weekly calls and others to be more interactive where you can sit in on the call and ask questions. When he offered it I thought that this was a small group that he was mentoring to teach about Lease options  because of the price, urgency, and sincerity displayed at the seminar. Once joining, a lot of it seemed outsourced and I was distant with my mentor (Joe). Many of his videos were outdated, especially the bonuses but that didn't matter much. I really wanted to try Wholesaling and thought his approach to Lease Options was interesting and expected a sort of 1 on 1 or Small Group type of course but there was nothing like that. Thanks for your feedback, I also feel as if you can learn anything for free and some of these courses out here are underdelivered and overpriced. I reflected upon my post and I believe I was overexaggerating it, but that was most likely because I had such high hopes.

Nice to see a thorough review of one of these courses.  I've never taken one and don't plan to, but good to hear from someone that went through it. Kinda rare. 

Others may disagree with your findings but I found the info helpful.  Lease Options are not hard.  They are also not prevalent in this stage of the market cycle.  I did a ton 10 years ago when lots of people had little equity.  May become more than a dusty tool again someday.

Joe sounds like he didn't give a rip about you but I don't know think I'd consider it a scam. At least his apathy only costed you $1500 and indigestion.  I get worse from contractors sometimes. 

I always thought he was a scam, but several other investors I know and trust like him, so I ended up buying some of his lower level stuff, books, recordings and whatnot. They weren't very useful and now I'm in his click funnel/upsell/massive marketing campaign.

I think his system is probably quite good. I just hate those kinds of marketing tactics, so I would never buy any more of his stuff.

Not a big fan of wholesale lease options either. It's a lot of effort and money to reach motivated sellers. You'd want more than just a wholesale fee. If you're ok with that then just be a realtor haha.

@Steve Vaughan Yeah I am just starting out on my journey right now, I thought a $1500 course was a lot to me but I can see how it could've been worse. The way I grew up was being raised extremely frugally and investing in this course has made it so my parents have less trust in me in regards to real estate. I'm still 17 and this small bump makes it my path to becoming a successful investor a bit harder for my parents to help me build banking and credit relations. From their point of view, I made a stupid decision and they no longer want me to become an investor and rather see me go to college. It's a shame that some money went to waste but what's even worse is my relationship with my parents now because they've been extremely against anything that has to do with Real Estate now.

Originally posted by @Ryan Phu :

This post is about Joe McCall and his course, coaching, and programs, it will be a detailed review with my own experience being apart of his Course and Programs...

If you were in the same shoes I was when I attended his webinar, I was also extremely convinced Joe would fully deliver all of his promises and that his Lease Options strategy would be the best. As I looked at the course I saw that it was WAY OVER my budget and cost $1500! But considering that he was offering me a 90 day guarantee, what could hurt by trying it? 

Quality of the Course

Once you get started, you don't get a correct introduction and just bombarded by an armada of information. Instead of showing you how to do Lease Options with a few basic tools he'll try to push you to his Upsells so he can make more money off of you through his REI Simple CRM and other programs right from the start! DO NOT FALL FOR IT! Here's are the steps which I followed in the intro: Step #1 - Watch This Welcome Video, Step #2 - Join The Private Facebook Group Below, Step #3 - Register For One Of Our Weekly Onboarding Calls For New Students, Step #4 - Sign Up For REI Simple, etc... Right from the introduction in the course he tries to get you to upsell you with REI Simple without knowing much about it. I signed up and that was a huge mistake (I'll cover more of it later). In the first video he spends around 5 minutes trying to explain Lease Options but completely fails. You don't get to understand the basics of it and how to do Lease Options without the complex tools until later on all because it's overloaded with irrelevant information that is not necessary at the start. I mean even by the third video of Module 1 you're stuck on a 16 minute video of him trying to upsell you with his CRM so you can to Automate it when you don't even know the basics! How can you automate your Lease Options Business with REI Simple and VA's on your first day or even month of doing it? You have no foundation at all, but he wants you to pay and sign up? Wow. Each video throughout the course consists of staring at a mind-map presentation and listening to his monotone commentary. Many of the videos are old and there is little effort put into the quality of them. It's more of a Reading off his mind-map presentation and rambling rather than getting straight to the point and teaching you throughout the Entire Course.

The Quality of his Coaching

As a student I had access to his Facebook groups and some of his coaching calls, they were okay and they pretty much answered questions for you however it was usually someone other than Joe who helped me out. Some of the videos he provides are all the way from 2010 and 2013 and just outdated.The way he explains things can be extremely confusing and the quality is not worth the price. I thought I was being a bad listener/student at first but I began to talk to others in his private facebook group and they agreed they became frustrated, bored, and the videos were unclear. There were many points where I became so frustrated with myself with being overwhelmed and also not being able to understand that I was ripping my hair from my head! After being in the course for a while you notice a lot of the things he does is outsourced, which is super amazing since he can run it hands off but the only problem is that it lacks real sincerity of 1 on 1 coaching. Without the 1 on 1 coaching the price for the course is not worth it, you only get access to the lengthy videos and under delivered bonuses. He's a great person, and he's really got everything into detail but the course is just too overwhelming and there's not enough effort put into it with the coaching aspect.

The Price

The Price for the Course, and the upsells are by far the worst. $1500 for a course? Sorry but that price just seems ridiculous, for the lack of the support, clarity, and quality of the course content it's worth more around $100 or less. Many of the bonuses have certain terms that are an upsell such as REI Simple and the VA Center he provides. REI Simple is not free, they make it so that you have to try it for 3 months so you have to either get your refund on the course (90 Day Money Back) or on REI Simple (after the 90 days/3months) You can't really try it to see if it works out without paying for it. The VA Center with 10 Hours free? Nope! You have to pay $60 for the "Set Up Fee".

But it’s okay because if the course isn’t really worth it because you have the 90 Day Money Back Guarantee right?

Wrong! It’s now a 30 day Policy! 

And remember the REI Simple Program that you signed up for but didn't use? Well you won't get reimbursed!

And it didn’t just happen to me…

Here is another student who was not able to get a refund, he even goes to say that he can't get a refund for REI Simple either or for the other programs he bought.

“I did this 5 seller a day challenge thing for $500 last month and they said they wouldn't be picky with proof of completion. They ended up being super picky with mine and declining a bunch of others. Now they want me to send a picture holding the check that was technically my money from the start.”

Reading this it made me wonder why he would ask for a picture for the refunded check. Maybe it’s for fake testimonials?

Basically to sum up:

The quality...bad

Coaching...bad

Price...horrible (Once you get in you get upsells left and right so he can make even more off of you)

Overall the course is not worth it at all, it completely under delivers for the price you pay and the time you invest into it. Do not get it.

If you really want to Learn Lease Options, search up REI Conscious on youtube. I found it to be better than the videos by Joe and it's free. Thanks for reading, Stay Safe everyone.

The part I am unclear on is what was the Money back guarantee period????   Was it 90 days or was it 30 days?   Also if you can find anywhere that it indicated 90 days, then it is 90 days.  I know nothing about Joe McCall, but if he does not honor his warrantee I know enough that I would recommend all investors avoid his program like the plague.

If you had a 90 Day money back guarantee, and you do not feel the program was worth the money then you should get your money back.

As for getting your parents assistance 1) they are not obligated to assist you in RE 2) If you cannot convince them to assist you in RE then maybe you need to further your skill set.  It will be real tough to be a wholesaler.   3) If I were your parents, I would also want you to give college a try.   4) It is the wrong time for lease options as has already been pointed out.  Furthermore, San Diego (historically high appreciation markets) is a tough lease market because the seller is taking risk of lost opportunity that is tough to justify.  I do not think it was the correct lesson for this market at this time.

Good luck

I used to listen to Joe's podcast. He gave out a ton of information for free. The podcasts really contained most of what's needed, and the courses he spoke about were really for automating things as you alluded to. I did not put any of his info into practice and stopped listening to the podcasts after a while because lease options didn't really appeal to me, but he seemed like a decent guy and the podcast had a lot of value at no cost. 


The refund policy you spoke about was surprising. As Dan mentioned above, if you have something stating that it was a 90 day refund policy, then you should pursue getting that refund and don't let up easily.

@Dan Heuschele It was 90 days, the screenshot will be at the bottom. With regard to my parents, I want a good relationship with them so they can build my credit history. They're my best option to build credit under 18 through Authorized Users. The reason why this is so important to me is because within the next few months/year it is likely that there will be many undervalued assets and I need good bank (and credit) relationships to safely leverage it for any future investments.  Dan, you seem really knowledgable with the market in San Diego and prior to joe McCall I didn't realize how important it was to know your market. (one of the reasons why I believed him when he told me that the SD market was perfect for Lease options) From your experience, What has worked best for you in SD? I have heard wholesaling is tough but despite having less volume it has larger spreads in San Diego

Originally posted by @Ryan Phu :

@Dan Heuschele It was 90 days, the screenshot will be at the bottom. With regard to my parents, I want a good relationship with them so they can build my credit history. They're my best option to build credit under 18 through Authorized Users. The reason why this is so important to me is because within the next few months/year it is likely that there will be many undervalued assets and I need good bank (and credit) relationships to safely leverage it for any future investments.  Dan, you seem really knowledgable with the market in San Diego and prior to joe McCall I didn't realize how important it was to know your market. (one of the reasons why I believed him when he told me that the SD market was perfect for Lease options) From your experience, What has worked best for you in SD? I have heard wholesaling is tough but despite having less volume it has larger spreads in San Diego

>It was 90 days …

If you requested a refund in 90 days or less, he should refund your costs.  This may help with getting your parents to have more confidence in you financially.  If you are due a refund, do not take no for an answer.  If required take him to small claims court.  The one thing I do not like is that you cannot serve him personally which is for me the biggest hurdle. To be blunt, if you cannot handle this then there is likely to be other issues that arise in RE investing that you will be unable to handle.

>I have heard wholesaling is tough but despite having less volume it has larger spreads in San Diego

I have never wholesaled but I suspect you have both items correct.  If you cannot get Joe McCall to refund your money and/or convince your parents to assist you in RE, then maybe you need to further your skill set. It will be real tough to be a wholesaler.  You need to persuade people that selling to you is a better option than calling any of the other numerous solicitations they get in the mail every week or listing it with an RE agent.  You also need to convince them to sell to you at a price that would allow an investor to want to purchase from you.  Note some of the solicitations in the mail are not from the wholesaler but the person who is rehabber investor.  You need to be able to sell significantly below market price to the investor while still making a profit for your efforts.  It is not something that I believe I could do.

>What has worked best for you in SD? 

Virtually every property we purchase has a value add and virtually all the value adds have been the boring rehab. I want the next value add to be an ADU addition, but the appraisals are undervaluing the ADUs so refinance to extract capital seems unlikely. It would be smarter for me to purchase an RE already with an ADU, but I kind of want the experience of building an ADU to add to my existing experience.

Most of our properties have been purchased off the MLS. There are not going to be many killer deals on the MLS and yet I think most investors mostly purchase off the MLS. So good deals are on the MLS. Sometimes they take a creative eye to recognize. A property we recently offered $850K, thinking that was a good deal, that we pulled out of during DD due to risk on our value add, just sold off MLS at ~$720K. It is the only sale in that community below $1M. It had some issues, but at that price it will have issues. We have purchased twice directly from owner. We have not yet purchased from a wholesaler but I am not adverse to it. My issue is none of the wholesale offers I have seen are that great. They usually are high on estimated ARV and low on estimated upgrade costs.

San Diego RE investing returns come from: appreciation, value adds, equity paydown.

Value adds:

  • Rehab: Standard BRRRR
  • ADU: have become popular in last 2 years due to changing CA ADU regulations. Learn as some level what the 6 ADU regulations permit.
  • Under utilized zoning: Is there a duplex where there can be a quad. Then combine with ADU. This does takes the most capital but I suspect it has the most upside (if you know what you are doing).

I believe your first step is to get your refund.  If you cannot do that, then you will encounter other issues that you have difficulty overcoming.

Good luck

@Ryan Phu dude, that sucks! You did a great review, but still not an easy lesson to learn! Hope to see you at the meetup July 11th, and would like to talk with you more about this, and REI Conscious

Originally posted by @Ryan Phu :

@Steve Vaughan Yeah I am just starting out on my journey right now, I thought a $1500 course was a lot to me but I can see how it could've been worse. The way I grew up was being raised extremely frugally and investing in this course has made it so my parents have less trust in me in regards to real estate. I'm still 17 and this small bump makes it my path to becoming a successful investor a bit harder for my parents to help me build banking and credit relations. From their point of view, I made a stupid decision and they no longer want me to become an investor and rather see me go to college. It's a shame that some money went to waste but what's even worse is my relationship with my parents now because they've been extremely against anything that has to do with Real Estate now.

I would encourage you to press on. I don't know anything about the course nor can I provide any feedback on gurus, but as others have said, consider it a valuable $1500 lesson. I wish I had the courage to make those kinds of decisions at your age. 

It's understandable how your parents feel given that most people are risk-averse in the first place. At the end of the day, find what drives you and don't let other peoples' fear pull you down. You will always find a great community here at BP, and many, many successful investors have gone through their own expensive lessons as well. Did it stop them? No, they learned from it, kept an open mind, and asked how they could be different next time. If you can identify your real drive, maintain consistency and discipline, and continue networking with other like-minded individuals, I think you will eventually find great success one day. My 2 cents being a newbie myself.

 

Ryan,

Most of the info you need to get started is "free" in books. Over the years I attended quite a few of these guru presentations always as friends' plus one guest.  The presentations are almost all the same with just the name of the presenter changing. The strategies require a good amount or luck and effort and sometimes finding and taking advantage of a seller with equity. Then there is an upsell for another strategy.  

There are plenty of good real estate books.  Read the books.  Learn the basics.  Buy a home and house hack.  Keep it simple to start, then eventually take on leverage to amplify your winning strategy.


Originally posted by @Ryan Phu :

@Dan Heuschele It was 90 days, the screenshot will be at the bottom. With regard to my parents, I want a good relationship with them so they can build my credit history. They're my best option to build credit under 18 through Authorized Users. The reason why this is so important to me is because within the next few months/year it is likely that there will be many undervalued assets and I need good bank (and credit) relationships to safely leverage it for any future investments.  Dan, you seem really knowledgable with the market in San Diego and prior to joe McCall I didn't realize how important it was to know your market. (one of the reasons why I believed him when he told me that the SD market was perfect for Lease options) From your experience, What has worked best for you in SD? I have heard wholesaling is tough but despite having less volume it has larger spreads in San Diego

 OK. This is fairly easy. You're 17 and have no legal right to enter into a purchase contract. Have your parents call the company, tell them you were not authorized to make this purchase, and they want it refunded or they will dispute it with their CC company. If they won't refund, let your parents dispute the charge. You should win this one because you can generally claim stupidity until you turn 18 - that's why they call you a "minor". 

@Ryan Phu I didn't notice until I saw it in @JD Martin 's comment that you are 17. He is right, guarantee or not, Joe owes you the money back.  $1,500 is a ton of money for a 17 year old.

While you may not have learned much about real estate you have learned a lesson about life and business. You can learn something from every Guru Program but no program will teach you everything you need to know. And knowing is only part of the equation. Taking action and learning from those actions are key to moving ahead.

Good luck young man. I wish I started when I was as young as you.

@Ryan Phu welcome to the big boy club. It is very unlikely that any successful guru will give you a ton of one one coaching for $1500.00

I’m still a potential target for guru marketing and I have seen many different sales tactics. My wife is usually the one that thinks it is not a good deal. 

I don’t know your parents, but the fact that you have parents that care is a lot. They probably really are proud of you.:)

@Ryan Phu - My team just notified me that you actually only paid $500, not $1,500. And we’ve already refunded all the money to you on May 27th, when you first asked for it. I may be wrong... But whatever we still need to do to make it right, let me know.

Ryan my dude, I'm glad I connected with you and got my refund back as well. While this course was clearly not the one for you, I hope you can forgive Joe, leave this in the past, and continue to pursue real estate investing. And who the hell cares what your parents think? I don't tell my family a lot of things, because unfortunately, the ones we love can be the ones holding us back. You are the captain of your own ship! As long as you're not using their money, you should be good to go. On another note, you are a beast for getting into this even younger than me! Learn from your mistakes, stay positive, and keep on going. I'm here for you brotha.

@Joe McCall Thank you Joe for the Call this morning. This post was for the concern of others such as Wesley (They have now also been taken care of and refunded) and to voice my opinion. Thank You for letting me keep the course and for the refund. My intention was to get a refund for others and myself which was not provided by the support team at the time. I did not want to take it this far to make a post about you at all. Hopefully, you will consider making a few changes to your course/terms to make it less confusing for others as well as better support so this does not happen again. Until then, take care Joe. I hope the best for you.

@Ryan Phu if real estate investing is what you ultimately want to do, don't ever give up.  The plan may change but never change the goal.  There is no such thing as failure, only feedback so keep on keeping on.  Even if it ruins you're parents trust to invest in you, just stay positive and keep on finding new ways to reinvent yourself until you find a plan that works for you.  Fail fast!

@Ryan Phu , I recommend you check out the BP podcast. Some of the best real estate education you'll receive, for free. You're young and really need to build some foundational knowledge before tackling lease options. I also think the BP books are excellent values. I like Finding & Funding Great Deals; Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat and Raising Private Capital.