Possible to Convert Illegal Cellar to Legal Apartment?

Question

Hi,

My father purchased this 2-family house (R5 Zone) back in 1976 in Astoria Queens, and just like many other landlords in NYC he rents out the cellar/basement.

I've been reading online the definition between a basement and cellar based on the link below, and I think my father's falls under a cellar. Even though the property slopes down and on the side of the building there are full size windows going all the way back, and then windows and separate entrance from the back. You can also access this apartment from the main entrance that has stairs going down to the apt; so it has a front and back entrance.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/services-and-information/basement-and-cellar.page

My father is getting older and he just doesn't want to deal with the house anymore, and will be passing it down to me. The house is paid off, and I'm trying to see what my best option is to do with it.

I would like to do a full gut renovation on all 3 apartments, but I would like to be able to see if it's possible to convert the cellar to be a legal apartment and get a CO that states "multi-dwelling" instead of "2-family".

Does anyone have any experience with this? Would reaching out to a real estate lawyer or architect be better to see if it's possible to convert to a legal apt?

I came across this article and it seems like there is a push for this and to make basement/cellar apartments legal but still hasn't happened. It looks like they launched a pilot program in 2019 but costing homeowners up to $1M to do the conversion.

https://citylimits.org/2023/03/13/in-new-yorks-fight-to-legalize-basement-apartments-what-about-cellars/

I don't want to end up selling the place because it is good cash flow and would be even better once I renovate all the apartments.

Thank you.

Jared W Smith · Answer

This is NYC. Doesn't work like that. The clerks that answer the phones are not privy to Codes and what applies to your problem/issue. Additionally, they don't have the time or resources to research and investigate Owners calling with questions on legality of property/building renovations or proposed changes. In smaller jurisdictions, absolutely.

Mark Small · Answer

Hello, just joined and this question is exactly what I'd like to know more about I am looking to convert the basement/cellar of my secondary house in East Flatbush Brooklyn into an apartment. Looking for architect, and contractors. I've been looking at comparable properties nearby and the median is in the low 2k range I'm thinking mine may go a little higher since it's a corner property with a lot of light but really looking to see if the conversion would make sense financially because I've been reading those articles about the costs being exorbitant. Any info or contacts would be greatly appreciated.

Jared W Smith · Answer

Hello @Dennis Gallof

Thanks for posting. There are very specific requirements that must be completed for a legal cellar basement to be rented out. I have done it for some clients and for others sometimes it's not feasible or economical. It all depends on Code compliance at that particular building. It's a conversion process and is quite complex to design, formally file and obtain new CO. Just note- there are further restriction on creating a rental unit in a cellar for single family and 2-fam. So a thorough review of the lowest floor is a must. DM me if you'd looking for services on your best options and best steps forward.

-Jared W. Smith, RA - Principal Architect at Architect Owl PLLC (Licensed in NY & CT)

Bob S. · Answer

Call the city and ask,

Mohammed Rahman · Answer

Hey @Dennis Gallof - I'm an investor & broker in NYC, and am very familiar with Astoria as I work with multiple multifamily clients in the area.

I have a few videos on my social media about NYC's love/hate relationship with cellars & basements.

There is a distinction that NYC makes when it comes to "habitable" vs. "rentable". You can make a basement habitable, but not always rentable because the latter would require you to get an updated CO and convert the basement "unit" into a legal dwelling... which would mean your house would go from a legal-2 to a legal-3 fam.

The restrictions you'll face with this is mainly due to zoning laws in your particular area, unless the zoning allows for more units or FAR (floor area ratio).

Depending on where you are in Astoria, it may be worth it as I know long term the city planning is trying to boost higher zoning use cases to open up more supply of units.

Shoot me a DM or a text and I'm happy to chat about it some more, my number is in the email signature.

FYI to answer your question - get an architect first & foremost and don't cheap out LOL! You get what you pay for and an architect can make or break your approvals with DOB. I have a few architects I've worked with that know the ins and outs of the DOB, happy to share my connects.

Abel Curiel · Answer

Hello Dennis!The pilot program didn't play out too well although the concept is great. The program had a very small sample size as there weren't many participants + as you mentioned, renovation/conversion costs were extremely high for landlords.For your question, an architect would be a great contact. I can recommend a local architectural/engineering firm (previous office was on 36st in Astoria) that is very experienced, knowledgeable and professional.All the best to you & your dad on this next chapter!Abel

Nicholas Marantidis · Answer

An Architect would be your best person to reach out to. They will understanding all of the rules and regulations in what is needed to make it legal.

Mario B. · Answer

Good point, NYC and CT are 2 different markets. In CT I can easily get someone on the phone. I haven't dealt with NYC before.

Jay Thomas · Answer

Your cellar appears to have potential based on its features like full-size windows and a separate entrance.You're on the right track! Consulting with both a real estate attorney and a licensed architect is crucial.The attorney can advise on the legal aspects of converting a cellar into a legal apartment, including zoning regulations, building codes, and the legalization process.The architect can assess the physical space, determine if it meets conversion requirements (ceiling height, egress, etc.), and create plans for a compliant renovation.The 2019 pilot program you mentioned wasn't permanent, and the high costs associated with it discouraged participation. There's still ongoing debate about legalizing basement/cellar apartments.Even without the pilot program, a full gut renovation and converting the cellar will incur significant costs. Factor in permitting fees, construction costs, and adherence to building codes. Additionally, exploring alternatives like legalizing the existing cellar apartment, if applicable, or renovating the current layout to increase rental income could be viable options.

Jared W Smith · Answer

Unless you know someone at one of those depts., that will get you no where. Calling NYC Building Dept. to ask specific questions about what you can and cannot do is useless. Owners nights are your best bet but often they don't stand by what they say either. Trust me. Been dealing with NYC DOB since 05'. Read the above comments. You either look at the Zoning Ordinance yourself and try to figure it out or you call in a professional. No City in CT is NYC. Not even comparable.

A lot of investors are penny wise, pound foolish. Hiring an Architect to look at your problem and paying for 2-3hrs or spend 20+ hrs trying to figure it out and still may not know with certainty if what they came up with is viable, feasible or accurate.

-Jared W. Smith, RA - Principal Architect at Architect Owl PLLC (Licensed in NY & CT)

Possible to Convert Illegal Cellar to Legal Apartment?

Possible to Convert Illegal Cellar to Legal Apartment?

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