Tackling deferred maintenance and CapEx on 100-year old buildings

Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

There’s no realistic way this scope of work is being completed in Philadelphia for $7,500–$10,000 using licensed and insured subcontractors. I’m not familiar with the Cleveland market, but I’d be surprised if possible there. It also appears the work is limited to exposed or easily accessible MEP components. Is that because the building is occupied, or because the property cannot absorb the cost of full system replacements?

My concern is that these recurring issues persist because the repairs are being pieced together rather than addressed comprehensively, and/or because unqualified labor is being used.....both of which typically end poorly for the property owner.

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Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Stuart Udis:

There’s no realistic way this scope of work is being completed in Philadelphia for $7,500–$10,000 using licensed and insured subcontractors. I’m not familiar with the Cleveland market, but I’d be surprised if possible there. It also appears the work is limited to exposed or easily accessible MEP components. Is that because the building is occupied, or because the property cannot absorb the cost of full system replacements?

My concern is that these recurring issues persist because the repairs are being pieced together rather than addressed comprehensively, and/or because unqualified labor is being used.....both of which typically end poorly for the property owner.
Thank you, Stuart. All units are occupied thus the effort to do the work in the common areas only. I would do the same in the units when they become available e.g. install PEX. And, correct. I do not believe the properties can absorb a full system replacement, but tackling major components would be a solid step in the right direction. The current systems aren't failing yet, but they are old and I think these repairs would head off half of the recurring maintenance calls.
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Marcus Auerbach

Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes

9mo

That would cost more than your budget and also be a waste of money. Your plumbing system is still a mess AND you can't generate more income.

Rehab the units one by one as the turn over. Then rent at new value.

2 Reply

Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

That would cost more than your budget and also be a waste of money. Your plumbing system is still a mess AND you can't generate more income.
Rehab the units one by one as the turn over. Then rent at new value.

Thanks, Marcus. The intention is not to generate more income but to reduce the consumption of income through lower ongoing maintenance expense. I'm not trying to build the Taj Mahal. Cleveland basements are the heart of all home systems.
1 Reply
Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
9mo
Quote from @Jc M.:

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

That would cost more than your budget and also be a waste of money. Your plumbing system is still a mess AND you can't generate more income.
Rehab the units one by one as the turn over. Then rent at new value.

Thanks, Marcus. The intention is not to generate more income but to reduce the consumption of income through lower ongoing maintenance expense. I'm not trying to build the Taj Mahal. Cleveland basements are the heart of all home systems.

No, I get that and you should know I've been doing this kind of rehabs for 15+ years here in Milwaukee, which has a similar hounsing stock - mostly 1920s and 1950s inventory. If you replace half of the plumbing system, you will still have issues from the other half. Probably quite a bit worse, because every cut you place will break loose mineral buildup and that is not clogging up faucets. So you don't elmininate the maintenance, you've spent a bunch of money, your building is still no Taj Mahal (or worth any dollar more) - not a good ROI
I have made all those mistakes, sharing so you don't have to.
0 Reply
Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Quote from @Jc M.:

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

That would cost more than your budget and also be a waste of money. Your plumbing system is still a mess AND you can't generate more income.
Rehab the units one by one as the turn over. Then rent at new value.

Thanks, Marcus. The intention is not to generate more income but to reduce the consumption of income through lower ongoing maintenance expense. I'm not trying to build the Taj Mahal. Cleveland basements are the heart of all home systems.

No, I get that and you should know I've been doing this kind of rehabs for 15+ years here in Milwaukee, which has a similar hounsing stock - mostly 1920s and 1950s inventory. If you replace half of the plumbing system, you will still have issues from the other half. Probably quite a bit worse, because every cut you place will break loose mineral buildup and that is not clogging up faucets. So you don't elmininate the maintenance, you've spent a bunch of money, your building is still no Taj Mahal (or worth any dollar more) - not a good ROI
I have made all those mistakes, sharing so you don't have to.
Fair enough and appreciate you trying to share those mistakes. That's a great example with regard to the mineral build-up. What more do you suggest in my situation?
0 Reply
Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
9mo
Quote from @Jc M.:

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Quote from @Jc M.:

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

That would cost more than your budget and also be a waste of money. Your plumbing system is still a mess AND you can't generate more income.
Rehab the units one by one as the turn over. Then rent at new value.

Thanks, Marcus. The intention is not to generate more income but to reduce the consumption of income through lower ongoing maintenance expense. I'm not trying to build the Taj Mahal. Cleveland basements are the heart of all home systems.

No, I get that and you should know I've been doing this kind of rehabs for 15+ years here in Milwaukee, which has a similar hounsing stock - mostly 1920s and 1950s inventory. If you replace half of the plumbing system, you will still have issues from the other half. Probably quite a bit worse, because every cut you place will break loose mineral buildup and that is not clogging up faucets. So you don't elmininate the maintenance, you've spent a bunch of money, your building is still no Taj Mahal (or worth any dollar more) - not a good ROI
I have made all those mistakes, sharing so you don't have to.
Fair enough and appreciate you trying to share those mistakes. That's a great example with regard to the mineral build-up. What more do you suggest in my situation?

There are two types of investment properties: some are BRRRR'able (at least over time) and some are not. Most cheap buildings do not have enough value upside to allow for the necessary improvments - ever. In that case, fix with duct tape, milk for a year or two and then sell to a greater fool.
Depending on build quality, climate, use and care a building needs a full rehab roughly every 30-50 years. Every component of a house comes with a design life. A roof can last 25-30 years, windows 30-50 years, HVAC 20-30 years, kitchens 30-50, flooring 30-50 etc - if everything looks 1980s or older you'll get hit with everything at once. And the longer you wait, the more sudden and the more urgent things become.
In this example, since 1980, the property have should have about trippled and a portion of that value gain should have paid for a full factory reset. Unless of course, someone walked away with that money and left you holding the bag..
0 Reply
Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Quote from @Jc M.:

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

Quote from @Jc M.:

Quote from @Marcus Auerbach:

That would cost more than your budget and also be a waste of money. Your plumbing system is still a mess AND you can't generate more income.
Rehab the units one by one as the turn over. Then rent at new value.

Thanks, Marcus. The intention is not to generate more income but to reduce the consumption of income through lower ongoing maintenance expense. I'm not trying to build the Taj Mahal. Cleveland basements are the heart of all home systems.

No, I get that and you should know I've been doing this kind of rehabs for 15+ years here in Milwaukee, which has a similar hounsing stock - mostly 1920s and 1950s inventory. If you replace half of the plumbing system, you will still have issues from the other half. Probably quite a bit worse, because every cut you place will break loose mineral buildup and that is not clogging up faucets. So you don't elmininate the maintenance, you've spent a bunch of money, your building is still no Taj Mahal (or worth any dollar more) - not a good ROI
I have made all those mistakes, sharing so you don't have to.
Fair enough and appreciate you trying to share those mistakes. That's a great example with regard to the mineral build-up. What more do you suggest in my situation?

There are two types of investment properties: some are BRRRR'able (at least over time) and some are not. Most cheap buildings do not have enough value upside to allow for the necessary improvments - ever. In that case, fix with duct tape, milk for a year or two and then sell to a greater fool.
Depending on build quality, climate, use and care a building needs a full rehab roughly every 30-50 years. Every component of a house comes with a design life. A roof can last 25-30 years, windows 30-50 years, HVAC 20-30 years, kitchens 30-50, flooring 30-50 etc - if everything looks 1980s or older you'll get hit with everything at once. And the longer you wait, the more sudden and the more urgent things become.
In this example, since 1980, the property have should have about trippled and a portion of that value gain should have paid for a full factory reset. Unless of course, someone walked away with that money and left you holding the bag..

Yikes! Get me out of this burning building (or buildings)! Good reminder of the basics. I suppose they were purchased "cheap" though if already fully renovated at the time, they would have sold then at 2-2.5x. Thank you for the additional feedback.
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Stuart UdisPro Member

Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

9mo

I agree with Marcus. No buyer is going to credit you with value for the improvements you’re making because they’re incremental and only address the lowest-hanging issues. There’s still a larger cleanup required, and by your own admission the property can’t reasonably absorb the cost to do it properly.

At this point, your best friend is the price point the property sits in and the pool of less-experienced investors who may be willing to take it off your hands believing they can address the remaining issues effectively or simply ignore them. Lean into that buyer profile, price it accordingly, and move on. As it stands, this looks like an ongoing operational and liability burden that will continue to demand time, capital, and attention with limited upside unless there is a meaningful appreciation event anticipated pretty much immediately that will support the full system replacements.

[email protected]

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Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Stuart Udis:

I agree with Marcus. No buyer is going to credit you with value for the improvements you’re making because they’re incremental and only address the lowest-hanging issues. There’s still a larger cleanup required, and by your own admission the property can’t reasonably absorb the cost to do it properly.

At this point, your best friend is the price point the property sits in and the pool of less-experienced investors who may be willing to take it off your hands believing they can address the remaining issues effectively or simply ignore them. Lean into that buyer profile, price it accordingly, and move on. As it stands, this looks like an ongoing operational and liability burden that will continue to demand time, capital, and attention with limited upside unless there is a meaningful appreciation event anticipated pretty much immediately that will support the full system replacements.
I appreciate the detailed recommendation. I did not have an expectation that a buyer would credit me value since my intention is to hold. The goal is lower ongoing maintenance costs for those properties. As an aside, the properties appreciated significantly over the past several years.
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Colleen F.Pro Member

Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

9mo

@Jc M. That's an all in list. Your best bet is to look at each building and see what your building wide issues typically are then address. What building needs grading, which one needs plumbing, etc. Address in unit issues when vacant. If you look to replace cast iron as you anticipate it failing keep in mind no one can use the plumbing when you do that so figure on how to manage your tenants. Cleanouts are important and probably that is something you want to add where you can. Set priorities based on what systems in the building are causing problems and have the most risk. For electrical, if you still have fuse boxes you might start with those. You can't make an old building new.

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Sheryl Sitman

Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 480 posts · 362 votes

9mo

This is why many experienced investors in cities with old housing stock (I am in Philadelphia) intentionally buy property that requires full gut rehab - to change out all of the systems and structural elements and remove most of the need for ongoing expensive maintenance. Like others told you, your budget falls far short for getting those things done these days. Best bang for your buck is probably water/moisture management. As for older systems, may be best to get solid trades people that will give good honest guidance for maintaining and extending life - and replace upon failure. Consider insurance for big ticket under the ground stuff. We use AWR in Philly for water/sewer line coverage. Good luck!

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Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Sheryl Sitman:

This is why many experienced investors in cities with old housing stock (I am in Philadelphia) intentionally buy property that requires full gut rehab - to change out all of the systems and structural elements and remove most of the need for ongoing expensive maintenance. Like others told you, your budget falls far short for getting those things done these days. Best bang for your buck is probably water/moisture management. As for older systems, may be best to get solid trades people that will give good honest guidance for maintaining and extending life - and replace upon failure. Consider insurance for big ticket under the ground stuff. We use AWR in Philly for water/sewer line coverage. Good luck!
Thanks, Sheryl. My property type and state of repair are typical for the area. I definitely acknowledge that water and moisture management are important thus the punch list within. Appreciate your input.
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Arman AhmedPro Member

Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2024 · 2k+ posts · 954 votes

9mo

@Jc M.

This is a very solid, proactive approach — especially for 100+ year buildings in Cleveland where most "emergencies" really do start in the basement. Replacing galvanized with PEX and cast iron horizontals with PVC alone will eliminate a huge percentage of leaks, backups, and tenant calls, and labeling shutoffs is an underrated win for long-term ops. Your budget range actually sounds reasonable for duplexes/quads if you're batching work and not opening walls. I'd prioritize plumbing first (supply + drains), then electrical safety cleanup, and treat water management as non-negotiable because it protects everything above it. The only thing I'd add is scoping sewer laterals before doing drain work so you don't fix everything inside and miss a failing line outside. Overall, this kind of CapEx is boring but pays off massively in reduced maintenance, better tenant experience, and cleaner resale stories.

[email protected]614-418-6081

2 Reply

Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Arman Ahmed:

@Jc M.
This is a very solid, proactive approach — especially for 100+ year buildings in Cleveland where most "emergencies" really do start in the basement. Replacing galvanized with PEX and cast iron horizontals with PVC alone will eliminate a huge percentage of leaks, backups, and tenant calls, and labeling shutoffs is an underrated win for long-term ops. Your budget range actually sounds reasonable for duplexes/quads if you're batching work and not opening walls. I'd prioritize plumbing first (supply + drains), then electrical safety cleanup, and treat water management as non-negotiable because it protects everything above it. The only thing I'd add is scoping sewer laterals before doing drain work so you don't fix everything inside and miss a failing line outside. Overall, this kind of CapEx is boring but pays off massively in reduced maintenance, better tenant experience, and cleaner resale stories.

Much appreciate your feedback, Arman. As you said, the goal is to head off much of the ongoing maintenance in those buildings. We won't be opening walls until doing more of the same in the units themselves when needing a turn. I'll definitely add scoping the laterals to the list. If you have more to share about what you do with your properties, I'd love to hear it. My units are all solid work horses in decent neighborhoods, but they could use a big shot of TLC.
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Stuart UdisPro Member

Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

9mo

When capital is deployed on capex that lowers operating expenses but is unlikely to be recognized or valued by a buyer at exit, that’s a warning sign—even if the intention is to hold the property long term.

One of the most important lessons I learned early in my real estate investing career was to move on quickly from assets whose values cannot absorb the cost of doing things properly. If the property economics don’t support full system replacements, licensed and insured contractors, compliant construction practices, and durable materials, the model isn’t sustainable.

Continuing to invest under those constraints isn’t conducive to long-term strategy—it’s more like running a balance on a credit card. The asset rarely catches up to the capital being put into it, and each additional dollar just increases exposure.

The best time to exit is before spending any meaningful money on capex. Make it someone else's problem.

[email protected]

1 Reply

Madelyn Felix

Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2024 · 60 posts · 10 votes

9mo

Hi JC,

I've purchased a bunch of properties in Cleveland, OH, so I know exactly what you're dealing with. Almost everything there is 100 years old.

One of my fourplexes had a furnace that was over a hundred years old when I bought it! It looked like an octopus wrapped in asbestos.

I'd start with HVAC and your sewer stacks, as those were the most problematic for me.

Replacing your galvanized plumbing for hot/cold lines, for me, would depend on whether or not there are any obvious signs of imminent leaks.

Replacing knob and tube would help keep your properties insurable by most companies. Not to mention that some electrical may need to be upgraded anyway to be able to handle the load for all of today's appliances and newer furnaces.

If you disturb more than 50 sqft of any interior wall, I'd contact a lead and asbestos abatement company and budget accordingly. From experience, the last thing you want to be dealing with is an environmental spill or put your tenants health at risk.

I have access to some good vendors in Cleveland, if you'd like any referrals.

The ROI in Cleveland is 20%-30% for me. I love Cleveland. But they seem to dislike us out of state investors.

0 Reply

Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Madelyn Felix:

Hi JC,

I've purchased a bunch of properties in Cleveland, OH, so I know exactly what you're dealing with. Almost everything there is 100 years old.

One of my fourplexes had a furnace that was over a hundred years old when I bought it! It looked like an octopus wrapped in asbestos.

I'd start with HVAC and your sewer stacks, as those were the most problematic for me.

Replacing your galvanized plumbing for hot/cold lines, for me, would depend on whether or not there are any obvious signs of imminent leaks.

Replacing knob and tube would help keep your properties insurable by most companies. Not to mention that some electrical may need to be upgraded anyway to be able to handle the load for all of today's appliances and newer furnaces.

If you disturb more than 50 sqft of any interior wall, I'd contact a lead and asbestos abatement company and budget accordingly. From experience, the last thing you want to be dealing with is an environmental spill or put your tenants health at risk.

I have access to some good vendors in Cleveland, if you'd like any referrals.

The ROI in Cleveland is 20%-30% for me. I love Cleveland. But they seem to dislike us out of state investors.
Thank you, Madelyn. I know I'm not the only Cleveland investor staring down a mountain of maintenance and CapEx. I also know that as an investor I care about the state of those systems and would pay more for less headaches. Had the same thought about K&T with regard to insurance, load and safety. And, good tip on the walls. I'll keep it in mind. Yes, I'll follow-up for vendors once I'm back out there in a couple of months - appreciate that. And, no, they don't like us out-of-staters!
0 Reply

Marc RiceBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Columbus Cleveland Dayton, OH · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9mo

Quote from @Jc M.:

Hey RE Team,

I have several multi-families in Cleveland that are all 100+ years old which is typical for the area. Needless to say, maintenance is an ongoing expense and headache and I have furnaces older than most people on this forum. I want to proactively address maintenance needs starting in the basement. My thought is that much of the water and electrical issues we encounter begin there and can be stopped at the source. My hope is to head off +50% percent of maintenance issues before they happen and make ongoing maintenance easier by doing the items below, all at once. I think it might cost me $7.5k-$10k labor-materials/duplex and twice that for a quad. I also have wiggle room for vertical stacks that might need replacing, electrical panels and/or furnaces. What do you guys think and what do you recommend?

PLUMBING — SUPPLY LINES

Remove all accessible galvanized supply lines in basement
Install PEX trunk and branch system to each unit
New main shutoff and individual unit shutoffs (label by unit)
Proper supports, labeling, and pressure test
No in-wall work unless absolutely necessary

PLUMBING — DRAINS

Replace all horizontal cast-iron drain lines in basement with PVC
Replace only visibly failed vertical sections
Add minimum one accessible cleanout
Check all vent stacks in attic
Insulate exposed vent stacks as needed
Tie into existing stack and sewer lateral

ELECTRICAL

Remove abandoned/exposed knob & tube in basement and attic only
Secure open junction boxes, cap unused wires
Panel tighten, label, safety check
Replace unsafe breakers if found (no panel replacement unless quoted separately)
Install basic LED pull-chain or strip lighting in basement common areas

WATER MANAGEMENT

Seal visible foundation penetrations and cracks (interior)
Improve grading where soil slopes toward foundation
Add/extend downspouts to discharge away from structure

I suggest doing a renovation of the units individually to achieve the targeted monthly cash flow and appreciation.

[email protected]614-363-2787

Marc Rice | Investor Friendly Agent at Reafco Tailwind Team574 Reviews

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Alan AsriantsBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

9mo

These projects are going to cost you at least 10 times what you just budgeted for per building. This is exactly the reason why I steer my clients away from buying properties with this age, and with this much capital improvements needing repair or replacement. It's almost always better to spend a little bit more money on a home that is built a lot later and truly only needs cosmetic renovations. Whenever I see hundred plus year, old buildings with plaster walls, ungrounded outlets, uneven floors, funky layout, I almost always know that whoever buys this property will be the one who will take on a full gut renovation, unless they just keep patching the problem and sell it off. As soon as you start opening up those walls and looking into these problems, you will get a can of worms. One thing will start falling apart after the other, and the only true way in my opinion to fix these issues on the property at this age is with a full gut rehab. Anything else is just a patch job, waiting to burst. Unless you bought the property so cheap that doing this kind of capital expenditure would be worthy I would honestly get rid of the property, try to cash out as much as possible, and buy some thing else. Aim for 1970's+ - typically light cap ex (roof, windows, gutters, some electrical, (panel and service line upgrade,etc), some plumbing (some leaky copper) - if needed. You're not dealing with 100+ year old vent stacks, knob and tube, plaster walls, ungrounded wiring, weird layouts..

[email protected]267-767-0111

Alan Asriants - New Century Real Estate 591 Reviews

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Jc M.
OP
Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 83 posts · 65 votes
9mo
Quote from @Alan Asriants:

These projects are going to cost you at least 10 times what you just budgeted for per building. This is exactly the reason why I steer my clients away from buying properties with this age, and with this much capital improvements needing repair or replacement. It's almost always better to spend a little bit more money on a home that is built a lot later and truly only needs cosmetic renovations. Whenever I see hundred plus year, old buildings with plaster walls, ungrounded outlets, uneven floors, funky layout, I almost always know that whoever buys this property will be the one who will take on a full gut renovation, unless they just keep patching the problem and sell it off. As soon as you start opening up those walls and looking into these problems, you will get a can of worms. One thing will start falling apart after the other, and the only true way in my opinion to fix these issues on the property at this age is with a full gut rehab. Anything else is just a patch job, waiting to burst. Unless you bought the property so cheap that doing this kind of capital expenditure would be worthy I would honestly get rid of the property, try to cash out as much as possible, and buy some thing else. Aim for 1970's+ - typically light cap ex (roof, windows, gutters, some electrical, (panel and service line upgrade,etc), some plumbing (some leaky copper) - if needed. You're not dealing with 100+ year old vent stacks, knob and tube, plaster walls, ungrounded wiring, weird layouts..
Thanks for the feedback, Alan. Fortunately, the scope of work will not cost 10x although I understand the concern. I've owned these buildings for quite a while and they were worth what was paid for them. It's simply time to put some of the deferred maintenance and CapEx needs on the front burner. In our market, this asset type is commonplace and fortunately, the areas that I am invested in are continuing to see YoY demand growth.
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Gladimir Lobo

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2023 · 220 posts · 84 votes

8mo

That's not a proactive approach. It’s a plan. Scoping sewer lines after closing is assbackwards.

Foolish to update mechanicals with tenants in place. At best, you can address exterior issues, grading and such.

Collecting random opinions from people who have zero understanding of your investment strategy might feel like you’re building a masterpiece, but all you’re doing is creating a mastersh*t.

Investing isn’t “buy it and fix it.”
Investing is a strategy. A system. A plan.

0 Reply

Jim Johnson

Real Estate Agent · Memphis · Member since 2026 · 580 posts · 343 votes

8mo

You’re approaching this the right way. In 100-year-old buildings, the basement is the systems hub, so stabilizing infrastructure there usually reduces a big share of recurring unit-level issues.

Replacing galvanized supply with PEX and adding unit shutoffs is one of the best preventative moves you can make — it cuts down on leaks, pressure problems, and disruptive repairs. Upgrading horizontal cast iron drains and adding cleanouts is also high value, since that’s often the source of backups and ceiling leaks.

The electrical and water-management work you outlined isn’t flashy, but it reduces fire risk, moisture issues, and a lot of “mystery” maintenance that shows up later.

Big picture, you’re shifting from reactive repairs inside units to controlling the core systems. That typically means fewer emergencies, smoother turns, and less tenant disruption long-term. Just expect some hidden issues to surface once walls and lines are opened — common with buildings this age.

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Tackling deferred maintenance and CapEx on 100-year old buildings