Self Manage Your Properties
Adam TafelBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · St. Paul, MN · Member since 2017 · 580 posts · 396 votes
Upside Property Sales 4.9108 Reviews
Self Manage Your Properties
Most Popular Reply
Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2moQuote from @Adam Bartomeo:
If you think that PM's are the most frustrating part of the business than you are a VERY inexperienced investor and shouldn't comment about things you do not know about. An experienced investor should tell you that the best part of the business is the PM. PMs are the people who deal with all of the most stressful parts of the business - tenant complaints, the code violations, the nonpaying tenants, and all of the stuff that no one wants to deal with.
Funny that they are most frustrating part of the business but yet you still employ a PM to manage your property. I wonder how they feel about you...
Yeah, and we never get credit for the 10's or 100's of thousands of unit-months actual experience as well as the knowledge of the multitude of laws that legit operators must follow. For the newbs, one mistake can, and often will, cost far more than any legit PM fees.
18 Replies
- Forest Lake, MN · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 13 votes2mo
I fully agree with this. Self manage until you feel like you know the property and it's in a stable position from a rental and maintenance standpoint. Passing it off when it's a mess is costly.
- Investor · San Diego · Member since 2020 · 92 posts · 60 votes2mo
@Adam Tafel the maintenance margin point is the part most owners never see, and it's worth spelling out why: management fees are quoted and compared, but repair coordination markups, in-house vendor pricing, and things like filter contracts are buried in the monthly statements almost nobody reconciles line by line. The fee is not where the money goes.
Where I'd sharpen the "everyone should self-manage" claim is that self-management only captures those savings if the owner actually builds the systems a PM would otherwise provide. Written screening criteria applied the same way every time, a maintenance intake process that isn't just texts, a vendor bench built before the emergency, and real reserves. A self-manager without those isn't saving 10 percent, they're deferring costs into turnovers and vacancy. Self-managing my own units across a few states, the systems have mattered far more than proximity.
There are also honest breakpoints. A demanding W2, a portfolio scattered across markets, or a unit count where the coordination hours crowd out better uses of time can all flip the math, because owner labor is a real cost even when nobody invoices it.
Where do you put the breakpoint? Is it a unit count, distance from the property, or something about the owner's own tolerance for 7am plumbing calls?
- Real Estate Agent · Memphis · Member since 2026 · 558 posts · 321 votes2mo
I think there's a lot of truth in the idea that self-managing teaches you how you properties actually operate. Even if you eventually hire a PM, understanding the building, vendors, tenant base and maintenance patterns makes you a much better owner.
That said, I don't think it's necessarily self-manage or hire a PM. I've seen plenty of owners do well by keeping control over approvals, budgeting, and major decisions while outsourcing the day-to-day coordination. The key is understanding the operation well enough that you can hold a PM accountable.
To me, the bigger lesson is that owners should underwrite the operational model, not just the management fee. A 1-2% fee difference is often less important than how maintenance, vendor markups, communication and turnover are actually handled over time. That's where a lot of the real cost—or value—shows up.
- 2moRachid AbadliBusiness MemberInvestor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2024 · 129 posts · 36 votes
@Adam Tafel, I completely agree. The maintenance markup alone is enough to make many small landlords consider self-managing.
The part I'd add is that successful self-management isn't just about handling repairs—it's about having a compliance system. Collecting rent and coordinating vendors is the easy part. Missing a notice deadline or mishandling a security deposit is what gets expensive.
Once I stopped relying on memory and started treating compliance like a repeatable process, self-managing became much less stressful than managing a property manager.
LeaseBase.ai - 2moAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
If you think that PM's are the most frustrating part of the business than you are a VERY inexperienced investor and shouldn't comment about things you do not know about. An experienced investor should tell you that the best part of the business is the PM. PMs are the people who deal with all of the most stressful parts of the business - tenant complaints, the code violations, the nonpaying tenants, and all of the stuff that no one wants to deal with.
Funny that they are most frustrating part of the business but yet you still employ a PM to manage your property. I wonder how they feel about you...
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes2mo
Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:
If you think that PM's are the most frustrating part of the business than you are a VERY inexperienced investor and shouldn't comment about things you do not know about. An experienced investor should tell you that the best part of the business is the PM. PMs are the people who deal with all of the most stressful parts of the business - tenant complaints, the code violations, the nonpaying tenants, and all of the stuff that no one wants to deal with.
Funny that they are most frustrating part of the business but yet you still employ a PM to manage your property. I wonder how they feel about you...
Yeah, and we never get credit for the 10's or 100's of thousands of unit-months actual experience as well as the knowledge of the multitude of laws that legit operators must follow. For the newbs, one mistake can, and often will, cost far more than any legit PM fees. - Forest Lake, MN · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 13 votes2moThe OP self manages his properties, I think you might have read that wrong.
Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:
If you think that PM's are the most frustrating part of the business than you are a VERY inexperienced investor and shouldn't comment about things you do not know about. An experienced investor should tell you that the best part of the business is the PM. PMs are the people who deal with all of the most stressful parts of the business - tenant complaints, the code violations, the nonpaying tenants, and all of the stuff that no one wants to deal with.
Funny that they are most frustrating part of the business but yet you still employ a PM to manage your property. I wonder how they feel about you...
- 2moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @Adam Tafel:
Every property manager needs to be managed. PMs are the most frustrating thing about the business, because even the best PM won’t be as effective as a skilled owner-operator. In a tight market where cashflow can be tough to come by, it’s the PM factor which puts most deals out of reach for investors in the 1-12 unit space in our market.
It’s not so much the fees and lease up commissions, it’s the unknowns regarding maintenance and repair pricing. I used to have a PM contract on a 30 unit building in Saint Paul, we actually made most of our profits off the air filter contract at 12k/year. A previous vendor had bid it at 12k, we saw this when we took over and thought “hmmm we can take care of that..”. I had another PM tell me recently that his biggest profit margin activity is swapping fire detector batteries. These are the things a self-manager doesn’t think of when underwriting to add PM.
Everyone should self manage for as long as possible IMO, and by “everyone” I mean the 99% of us who own under 5 properties. Get to know the buildings and their quirks, the best lease schedules, the difficult neighbors, the best tenant sources, the boiler system, etc. If you don’t, you’ll be paying $100/hr or more for vendors to figure everything out, as it can take a year or 2 to stabilize a new deal.
And most property owners would be better off selling their property via FSBO or negotiating a flat fee with a Realtor.
What expertise and time savings do agents really provide?
Who knows your home better?
So, sell your properties on your own and save the tens of thousands you'd pay to an agent that you could do better yourself.
Logical Property Management4.9458 Reviews - 2moAdam BartomeoBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Tyler Nash "PMs are the most frustrating thing about the business, because even the best PM won’t be as effective as a skilled owner-operator."
Bartomeo Property Management4.7150 Reviews - Member since 2023 · 5 posts · 4 votes2mo
Benjamin asked where the breakpoint is and nobody has answered it, so I'll take a swing. I self-manage a duplex in Rochester and manage large construction projects for my day job.
For me it is not unit count and it is not distance. It is what share of incoming requests actually need me specifically. Early on that share is high, because you don't know the building yet. Every call is diagnostic and you have to be the one on the phone. Once you know the boiler, the drains, and which two vendors actually show up, most requests stop needing your judgment. They need someone to route them correctly and follow up. That is a different job, and it is the one you can hand off or systematize.
So the breakpoint is not when you hit ten units. It is when your hours are mostly routing rather than deciding. Hand off before that and you pay someone to learn your building on your dime, which is Adam's point. Hang on well past it and you are the most expensive dispatcher you will ever hire.
The 7am call tolerance is real, but I'd treat it as a separate question. That is usually not a self-management problem, it is a missing emergency definition. If the lease and the intake message both spell out what actually warrants a 7am call, the volume drops a lot.
- online · Member since 2026 · 99 posts · 44 votes2mo
This tracks with what I've seen too, the markup on vendor contracts is usually way bigger than people realize until they see the actual invoices themselves. The air filter example is a good one, that kind of recurring service contract is exactly where PMs pad margins quietly.
The flip side of full self-management though is that you also lose whatever system the PM had (even a bad one) for tracking when the big stuff is coming due. Once you're the one negotiating vendor contracts, you're also the one who has to remember the roof is 18 years into a 20 year lifespan or the water heater's on borrowed time. Curious how you personally stay on top of that across your properties, spreadsheet, gut feel from knowing the building, or something more structured?
- Specialist · Goa, India · Member since 2026 · 175 posts · 36 votes2mo
@Giuseppe Cavucci question is the real gap in full self-management, and "gut feel from knowing the building" is exactly what breaks the moment you add a second or third property, or hand things off to a partner. The fix has to come from something that doesn't depend on you remembering the water heater's age, a simple install-date-plus-expected-lifespan log that flags itself when something's getting close, rather than counting on you connecting the dots from memory.
- online · Member since 2026 · 99 posts · 44 votes2mo
Quote from @Andrea Fernandes:
@Giuseppe Cavucci question is the real gap in full self-management, and "gut feel from knowing the building" is exactly what breaks the moment you add a second or third property, or hand things off to a partner. The fix has to come from something that doesn't depend on you remembering the water heater's age, a simple install-date-plus-expected-lifespan log that flags itself when something's getting close, rather than counting on you connecting the dots from memory.
That's exactly the gap I ran into personally, which is actually what got me building ReserveTrack. Same idea you're describing: log the install date and expected lifespan once per system, and it flags automatically when something's approaching end of life instead of relying on memory or gut feel.
It's still early and mostly built for exactly this problem, tracking reserves across multiple properties without needing to hold it all in your head. Happy to share more if you're curious, but either way, good framing on why "knowing the building" stops scaling past property one or two.
- Specialist · Goa, India · Member since 2026 · 175 posts · 36 votes2mo
@Giuseppe Cavucci That's great, love that it came out of hitting the actual problem yourself rather than starting from a feature list. Are you building it for personal use first and expanding from there, or thinking about other self-managers from day one? Also curious how you're handling the "expected lifespan" part — using general benchmarks per system type, or letting it be manually set per item since it probably varies a lot by climate/usage?
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes2moI am modifying an Excel workbook that was created to set up budgeting for HOA Reserve Funding Plans. Identical concept, just a minor variation. You start with a "standard useful life" from residential construction tables. "Remaining life" is estimated based on facts known AND an annual, visual inspection, using best judgment to adjust the timeline for each major element of the property. You also start with either the known cost and age of the new installation, or an estimated cost for major repair or replacement today. You do not need actual estimates for every element, every year, but as your remaining life for a particular element approaches zero, you should "fine tune" your numbers for that element based on good estimate numbers and critical visual inspections. Your reserve funding for each element is simply the current estimated cost divided by estimated years remaining to determine your next 12 months contribution.
Quote from @Andrea Fernandes:
Also curious how you're handling the "expected lifespan" part — using general benchmarks per system type, or letting it be manually set per item since it probably varies a lot by climate/usage?
Each year you re-evaluate, adjusting current estimated costs for inflation; adjust reserves on hand for interest earned, and actual contributions made; and calculate the percentage of funding actually on hand for the total of all elements. Above 70% you are probably ok, but 75 - 85 percent is ideal. You really have to evaluate the actual remaining time before the next major planned expenditure. It is critical for the largest expenditures to utilize accurate estimates to minimize your financial stress if your estimated timing is off by a year or three. - online · Member since 2026 · 99 posts · 44 votes2mo
Quote from @Andrea Fernandes:
@Giuseppe Cavucci That's great, love that it came out of hitting the actual problem yourself rather than starting from a feature list. Are you building it for personal use first and expanding from there, or thinking about other self-managers from day one? Also curious how you're handling the "expected lifespan" part — using general benchmarks per system type, or letting it be manually set per item since it probably varies a lot by climate/usage?
Started purely for my own portfolio, honestly. I was the one forgetting when I last serviced the water heater or how old the roof actually was. It's grown from there, and at this point it's built to be used by any self-manager who wants the same thing, not just a personal tracker anymore.
On lifespan: I use general benchmarks per system type as the starting point (roof ~20-25yr, water heater ~10-12yr, HVAC ~15-20yr, that kind of thing), but you're right that it varies a lot by climate and usage, so I let it be overridden per item. A water heater in a house with hard water or heavy use just isn't going to hit the "textbook" number, and forcing everyone into the same default would make the reserve estimate kind of useless.
- 2moStuart UdisPro MemberAttorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Very much disagree with the OP's position.
First, it's important to distinguish between good property management and everything else. As someone with substantial ownership experience, I've learned what separates the good from the bad.
Good property managers have strong contract management systems in place. They ensure vendors are working under detailed service agreements, verify insurance, licensing, and additional insured endorsements, track warranties, perform routine inspections, identify premises liability exposures before they become claims, implement preventative maintenance, and maintain consistent communication with tenants. That's what you're paying for.
Then consider the time and expertise required to build those systems yourself. For smaller or newer landlords especially, a good property manager is often well worth the cost.
There's also the value that's harder to measure: longer useful life of major systems through preventative maintenance, longer tenant retention, fewer costly mistakes, and access to service providers with enough scale to negotiate pricing that can offset much of the markup.
The owners who insist they can do it all for less often make one fundamental mistake: they assign no value to their own time. Ironically, they're usually the same owners boasting about buying properties at "10 caps" while personally handling the most remedial management tasks instead of focusing on activities that actually create value and no, they aren't "10 caps". Everyone is being taught cash flow is easy and even going back to OP's post where he says "in a tight market where cash flow can tight to come by it's the PM factor which puts most deals out of reach for investors"..... that's the illogical position someone takes when they feel they need to cut corners to generate cash flow. If the property doesn't pencil while relying on proper PM services you shouldn't buy it. Huge mistake, sincerely hope nobody follows this advice.
- Property Manager · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 29 votes1mo
He's not wrong to be suspicious, he's just aimed at the wrong fix. That air filter contract, those detector batteries... that's not a PM problem, that's a markup problem. I've managed single-family rentals in Fort Worth for 30 years and never once marked up a repair invoice. Owners see the vendor's actual bill, every time. No 10%, no "coordination fee" buried in the line item. Self-managing solves the trust problem by making you do everything yourself — which works fine for one or two doors if you've got the time. But the real fix scales: find a PM who shows you the invoice, not the markup. If they won't, that's your answer about why they're pushing you toward "just call us, we'll handle it."
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.