Morris Invest - Update and/or Alternatives?

8 Reply

Chris SeveneyBusiness Member

Moderator

Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes

@Heather Johnston

@james wise you want to take this one

My only comment is you invest in the sponsor more than the deal.

7e investments53 Reviews

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

Podcast Guest on Show #222

PS Chris Clothiers company is called REI Nation. :)

JLH Capital Partners51 Review

Theresa HarrisPro Member

Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

Honestly if they really wanted to turn over a new leaf, they'd change their name and make a fresh start. There are plenty of businesses that do similar things with better reputations. Jay knows his stuff, call some of the businesses he suggested.

Heather Johnston

OP

New to Real Estate · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 12 votes

Quote from @Theresa Harris:

Honestly if they really wanted to turn over a new leaf, they'd change their name and make a fresh start. There are plenty of businesses that do similar things with better reputations. Jay knows his stuff, call some of the businesses he suggested.

I've been looking into the Rent to Retirement and the Norada offerings since I saw his comment! I'm really excited to see actual properties on offer with the numerical breakdowns and pictures available to look at! This is awesome!

Account Closed

Investor · College Station, TX · Member since 2023 · 16 posts · 98 votes

https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/ZacharyCole/references

@Heather Johnston As COO of Rent to Retirement, I want to thank you for expressing interest in what we do! You can search this forum or research the links below to get more information on Rent to Retirement. Please reach out with any questions that you may have!

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/765347-rent-to-retirement-review

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/1116050-a-huge-win-with-cori-from-rent-to-retirement

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/44/topics/1058814-first-time-with-new-construction-cape-coral-fl?highlight_post=6055029&page=1

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/850/topics/895660-my-first-investment-property-an-out-of-state-deal

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/88/topics/1047543-big-profits-from-new-construction-sfr-build-in-cape-coral-fl

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/983659-first-investment-property-with-rent-to-retirement?highlight_post=5677176&page=1#p5677176

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/1122318-quality-turnkey-companies?highlight_post=6413855&page=1

https://www.biggerpockets.com/co/RentToRetirement

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/929410-rent-to-retirement-updates?highlight_post=5508807&page=1#p5508807

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/893621-rent-to-retirement-review?highlight_post=5222888&page=1#p5222888

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/915728-experience-with-rent-to-retirement-turnkey?page=1#p5345200

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/808479-rent-to-retirement-experiences

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/518583-feedback-on-renttoretirement-and-zach-lemaster?highlight_post=6192149&page=4&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Transactional:%20topic_notification_V2&utm_channel=28426&utm_content=Marketing

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/952977-turnkey-in-indianapolis-through-rtr-case-study

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/997350-lessons-learned-from-buying-my-first-rental-property?highlight_post=5748036&page=1#p5748036

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/533693-anyone-worked-with-renttoretirement-turnkey

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/581730-rent-to-retirement-zach

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/48/topics/874096-reviews-on-r2r-and-nch?page=1&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Transactional:%20topic_notification&utm_content=Transactional#p5123754

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/311/topics/883772-turnkey-investing-renttoretirement-feedback-reviews?highlight_post=5171720&page=1#p5171720

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/950188-rent-to-retirement?page=1&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Transactional:%20topic_notification&utm_content=Transactional#p5535505

Nick GiulioniPro Member

Rental Property Investor · Carmel, IN · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 615 votes

Please please please don't work with that man. Feel free to hit me up - but you need to work with a reputable agent.

@Brooks Rothschild @Tyler Lingle mind helping her out?

Brooks Rothschild

Real Estate Agent · Carmel, IN · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 9 votes

Thanks @Nick Giulioni !! @Heather Johnston Lets get a call scheduled for this week. I'll send you a DM.

Russell BrazilBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes

[email protected]301-893-4635 Podcast Guest on Show #192

Some Morris Invest partners are in prison, Herbert Whalen, others fled the country, Clayton Morris. I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would continue to give them money.

Might as well throw some money at Matt Onofrio while we are at it.

District Invest Group545 Reviews

V.G JasonPro Member

Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

Just stay out of turnkey investments. They either are truly full turnkey; own the house, manage the property, you sit back passively. Or they are essentially brokers-- they source the house, source the management and get a cut. Deals are thin as is, management is the flow of the deal after you secure the property don't compromise on either. If you're not fit time wise to manage don't stretch yourself.

James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the real estate game and spoke with a Morris Invest representative yesterday. While performing my due diligence, I found in-depth negative reviews of the company on here. Between YouTube and stealth reading articles and forum posts, I've been lurking around the BiggerPockets 'verse for a while; the situation is prompting me to actually enter the chat.

The discussions I found were all dated, and the company seems to be doing things differently, so I'm reaching out in the hopes of getting an update. I don't want to be a patsy in a Ponzi scheme, but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone. I'm a skittish newbie who really wants to get invested in real estate, and the kind of products Morris Invest purports to offer (full service, a mentorship-style walkthrough of the whole experience, and a tailored approach to use the resources the investor has available) is a really tempting way to get started.

Here are some things that have been different about my experience thus far (compared to the posts I found from pre-2020):
- Previous offerings: rehab units; current offerings: new builds
- Previous market: Indianapolis; current markets: Joplin, MO, Lubbock, TX and Odessa, TX
- Previous financing affiliate: Ocean Point; current financing affiliate: SDIRA Wealth
- Previous communication: bad (delayed, uninformative, and the like); my experience this week: ~10 minute delay in the scheduled phone call; very responsive via email (I received the follow-up mentioned on the call within twenty minutes of hanging up; I sent a reply with many detailed questions at lunchtime today [12:43 PM ET] and received a thorough response same day [8:05 PM], including a simplified pro forma example.)
- During our phone call yesterday, I was strongly encouraged to visit the development prior to purchase; none of the previous reviews mentioned this even as an option

Has anyone worked with the company recently, or has anyone heard of any recent engagement with Morris Invest? Are there competitors (as in, other full service real estate investment companies) that you might recommend checking out instead?

Thank you!

- Heather

If you knowingly invest money with a man who fled the United States for Portugal because he was involved in a massive ponzi scheme, you deserve to get ripped off.

Pam Brown

Real Estate Agent · Indianapolis IN · Member since 2022 · 144 posts · 65 votes

Hard NO on that one. That name sticks with a lot of us that worked with investment/foreclosure properties throughout the 2000s. They ripped off bazillions of investors. Run...and don't look back.

Ruchit Patel

Bay area, CA · Member since 2021 · 383 posts · 306 votes

I have found enough bad stuff about Morris's investment online. So definitely not worth trying that.

I can talk about services of rent to retirement, rootstock, doorvest from my experience.

Account Closed

Investor · Scottsdale Austin Tuktoyaktuk · Member since 2021 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the real estate game and spoke with a Morris Invest representative yesterday. While performing my due diligence, I found in-depth negative reviews of the company on here. Between YouTube and stealth reading articles and forum posts, I've been lurking around the BiggerPockets 'verse for a while; the situation is prompting me to actually enter the chat.

The discussions I found were all dated, and the company seems to be doing things differently, so I'm reaching out in the hopes of getting an update. I don't want to be a patsy in a Ponzi scheme, but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone. I'm a skittish newbie who really wants to get invested in real estate, and the kind of products Morris Invest purports to offer (full service, a mentorship-style walkthrough of the whole experience, and a tailored approach to use the resources the investor has available) is a really tempting way to get started.

Here are some things that have been different about my experience thus far (compared to the posts I found from pre-2020):
- Previous offerings: rehab units; current offerings: new builds
- Previous market: Indianapolis; current markets: Joplin, MO, Lubbock, TX and Odessa, TX
- Previous financing affiliate: Ocean Point; current financing affiliate: SDIRA Wealth
- Previous communication: bad (delayed, uninformative, and the like); my experience this week: ~10 minute delay in the scheduled phone call; very responsive via email (I received the follow-up mentioned on the call within twenty minutes of hanging up; I sent a reply with many detailed questions at lunchtime today [12:43 PM ET] and received a thorough response same day [8:05 PM], including a simplified pro forma example.)
- During our phone call yesterday, I was strongly encouraged to visit the development prior to purchase; none of the previous reviews mentioned this even as an option

Has anyone worked with the company recently, or has anyone heard of any recent engagement with Morris Invest? Are there competitors (as in, other full service real estate investment companies) that you might recommend checking out instead?

Thank you!

- Heather

Your Comment: "but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone"

Seriously?
Until he pays back the people he ripped off, it's a current mistake.

5 Reply

James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the real estate game and spoke with a Morris Invest representative yesterday. While performing my due diligence, I found in-depth negative reviews of the company on here. Between YouTube and stealth reading articles and forum posts, I've been lurking around the BiggerPockets 'verse for a while; the situation is prompting me to actually enter the chat.

The discussions I found were all dated, and the company seems to be doing things differently, so I'm reaching out in the hopes of getting an update. I don't want to be a patsy in a Ponzi scheme, but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone. I'm a skittish newbie who really wants to get invested in real estate, and the kind of products Morris Invest purports to offer (full service, a mentorship-style walkthrough of the whole experience, and a tailored approach to use the resources the investor has available) is a really tempting way to get started.

Here are some things that have been different about my experience thus far (compared to the posts I found from pre-2020):
- Previous offerings: rehab units; current offerings: new builds
- Previous market: Indianapolis; current markets: Joplin, MO, Lubbock, TX and Odessa, TX
- Previous financing affiliate: Ocean Point; current financing affiliate: SDIRA Wealth
- Previous communication: bad (delayed, uninformative, and the like); my experience this week: ~10 minute delay in the scheduled phone call; very responsive via email (I received the follow-up mentioned on the call within twenty minutes of hanging up; I sent a reply with many detailed questions at lunchtime today [12:43 PM ET] and received a thorough response same day [8:05 PM], including a simplified pro forma example.)
- During our phone call yesterday, I was strongly encouraged to visit the development prior to purchase; none of the previous reviews mentioned this even as an option

Has anyone worked with the company recently, or has anyone heard of any recent engagement with Morris Invest? Are there competitors (as in, other full service real estate investment companies) that you might recommend checking out instead?

Thank you!

- Heather

Your Comment: "but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone"

Seriously?
Until he pays back the people he ripped off, it's a current mistake.

Gotta give ole' Clay some credit. Can you imagine the size of the balls one has to have to continue pitching the same stuff while on the lam in Portugal? We're talking basketballs dude.

4 Reply

Heather Johnston

OP

New to Real Estate · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 12 votes

Fair. And by that I mean, this simple and even-keeled statement packed the most punch for me. Thank you for the insightful reminder!

Russell BrazilBusiness Member

Moderator

Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes

[email protected]301-893-4635 Podcast Guest on Show #192

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Account Closed:

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the real estate game and spoke with a Morris Invest representative yesterday. While performing my due diligence, I found in-depth negative reviews of the company on here. Between YouTube and stealth reading articles and forum posts, I've been lurking around the BiggerPockets 'verse for a while; the situation is prompting me to actually enter the chat.

The discussions I found were all dated, and the company seems to be doing things differently, so I'm reaching out in the hopes of getting an update. I don't want to be a patsy in a Ponzi scheme, but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone. I'm a skittish newbie who really wants to get invested in real estate, and the kind of products Morris Invest purports to offer (full service, a mentorship-style walkthrough of the whole experience, and a tailored approach to use the resources the investor has available) is a really tempting way to get started.

Here are some things that have been different about my experience thus far (compared to the posts I found from pre-2020):
- Previous offerings: rehab units; current offerings: new builds
- Previous market: Indianapolis; current markets: Joplin, MO, Lubbock, TX and Odessa, TX
- Previous financing affiliate: Ocean Point; current financing affiliate: SDIRA Wealth
- Previous communication: bad (delayed, uninformative, and the like); my experience this week: ~10 minute delay in the scheduled phone call; very responsive via email (I received the follow-up mentioned on the call within twenty minutes of hanging up; I sent a reply with many detailed questions at lunchtime today [12:43 PM ET] and received a thorough response same day [8:05 PM], including a simplified pro forma example.)
- During our phone call yesterday, I was strongly encouraged to visit the development prior to purchase; none of the previous reviews mentioned this even as an option

Has anyone worked with the company recently, or has anyone heard of any recent engagement with Morris Invest? Are there competitors (as in, other full service real estate investment companies) that you might recommend checking out instead?

Thank you!

- Heather

Your Comment: "but I also don't want to hold an old mistake against someone"

Seriously?
Until he pays back the people he ripped off, it's a current mistake.

Gotta give ole' Clay some credit. Can you imagine the size of the balls one has to have to continue pitching the same stuff while on the lam in Portugal? We're talking basketballs dude.

Im legally obligated to post this every time Clayton Morris is mentioned.

District Invest Group545 Reviews

Heather Johnston

OP

New to Real Estate · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2023 · 19 posts · 12 votes

Quote from @V.G Jason:

Just stay out of turnkey investments. ... If you're not fit time wise to manage don't stretch yourself.

Is your advice that if I don't have the time to manage properties myself, I should just stay out of real estate entirely? That seems harsh. Maybe* I need harsh, but I'd rather try (e.g., turnkey with property management support leading to thin margins) than not try and wonder if I could have made it work (e.g., not get in at all and have zero margins).

*As others in the thread have noted, I clearly do need harsh given the question I asked. X-D

Theresa HarrisPro Member

Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Quote from @V.G Jason:

Just stay out of turnkey investments. ... If you're not fit time wise to manage don't stretch yourself.

Is your advice that if I don't have the time to manage properties myself, I should just stay out of real estate entirely? That seems harsh. Maybe* I need harsh, but I'd rather try (e.g., turnkey with property management support leading to thin margins) than not try and wonder if I could have made it work (e.g., not get in at all and have zero margins).

*As others in the thread have noted, I clearly do need harsh given the question I asked. X-D

There is nothing wrong with having a PM, especially when people live in areas where rentals are not feasible leaving long distances rentals as a solution.

James Wise

Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes

Ya'll remember that time I whooped Clayton left and right after he sued me for $7.8 million for the HoltonWiseTV documentary we published about him?

Good times...

Pam Brown

Real Estate Agent · Indianapolis IN · Member since 2022 · 144 posts · 65 votes

PS--Oceanpointe was another company scamming millions of dollars from investors years ago. I think they were working "with" Morris then.

They were listed as the "buyer" and then many times within 1 day later (or the same day) would resell the exact same property for 20-50k more. Low end properties. So this was a lot to be added on to the next unsuspecting buyer. Sketchy as can be.

I can't tell you how many times that the name Oceanpointe (or Morris Invest) is still listed on the MLS property history report. So if your Indiana RE Broker sends you the history reports like I do---do not be shocked to see these crazy numbers and wonder what's up. Yep, it happened. That's how they scammed their millions...

Michael SmytheBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes

We ran into them in Detroit - and fortunately stopped doing business with them BEFORE their meltdown.

What they were doing wasn't ethical.

Logical Property Management4.9459 Reviews

Jim PfeiferBusiness Member

Investor · Dublin, OH · Member since 2014 · 241 posts · 495 votes

Quote from @Heather Johnston:

Quote from @V.G Jason:

Just stay out of turnkey investments. ... If you're not fit time wise to manage don't stretch yourself.

Is your advice that if I don't have the time to manage properties myself, I should just stay out of real estate entirely? That seems harsh. Maybe* I need harsh, but I'd rather try (e.g., turnkey with property management support leading to thin margins) than not try and wonder if I could have made it work (e.g., not get in at all and have zero margins).

*As others in the thread have noted, I clearly do need harsh given the question I asked. X-D

You might be better served by looking into passive real estate syndications. I started my RE journey owning a few single family properties, then I moved to turnkey single family. Sadly, my first one was with Clayton Morris and Oceanpointe. I lucked out because I visited the property after the "rehab" so I didn't lose as big as others. I moved on to other turnkey companies and while they weren't committing fraud, they were difficult to deal with. I had to manage the property managers and it was not at all passive. Fortunately, I did this when property values continued to go up. I was not a good asset manager, but I still made money. That isn't possible anymore and I switched to hiring asset managers through investing in syndications. These means all of my RE assets are managed by professionals who do this for a living - they hire the PM and handle all of the details.

It's not all passive - there is upfront work in vetting the operator, analyzing the market and the deal and filling out the documents, but after that you just wait for distributions and reports. That's it.

My results are much better than when I was managing my own properties and the time and effort is much much lower! You still have to make sure you don't invest with any Clayton's but that is where a network and a Community come in - we work together to find quality operators who we can trust with our capital.

Good luck!

Joe S.Pro Member

Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

If you are going to be buying a property at full market value, simply find a realtor and make offers on properties that are move-in ready. After you have your property in hand handoff the keys to a property manager that has a good reputation.

Where can I send you the discounted invoice? :-)

Ned J.Pro Member

Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

Clayton Morris is still pitching real estate? WOW..... guess there are still suckers out there falling for this guy.

He pops up on my FB feed or Tik Tok with his conspiracy driven Podcast dribble..... figured he had just moved on to the next scam