RE wholesaling in Florida is highly illegal?

RE wholesaling in Florida is highly illegal?

Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes

Hello all. After many hours/weeks of research and communication with members on BP, I decided to go ahead and get my RE license for different reasons that will aid my personal goals in RE investing. I was considering starting out in wholesaling which is why I started research on doing it without a license.

Now, whether you operate as a wholesaler with or without a RE license is your business, I'm not here to judge. To each their own.

However, in studying for the RE exam, of course I am now being exposed to tons of FL - RE laws, etc and I ran across an interesting piece of information. See below:

*****Florida Real Estate License Law requires that an individual who, for another, in Florida , for Compensation* or valuable consideration will need a real estate license if they perform any of the following when dealing with real property:

  • Appraises
  • Auctions
  • Sells
  • Exchanges
  • Rents
  • Negotiates a sale
  • Advertises or represents as an individual involved in the real estate business, through either oral or written representation
  • Procures sellers, purchasers, lessors, business enterprises or business opportunities
  • Closes any transaction which results in or is calculated to result in a sale or exchange and who expects to receive ANY compensation or valuable consideration

Real property or real estate means any interest or estate in land, or enterprise or business opportunity, including any assignment, leasehold, sub-leasehold or mineral rights. It does not include a cemetery lot or right of burial in any cemetery; nor does it include the renting of a mobile home lot or recreational vehicle mobile home park or travel park.

*Compensation is anything of value, paid, received, or expected to be paid or received or remuneration for services rendered.***** 

I know many will have different opinions as to what this means, but in my understanding, it seems as though wholesaling without a license is indeed illegal in FL.

I understand that many insist, "We are not selling properties, we are selling "equitable interest" in a property to another investor"... Sure, but at the end of the day, you are going into a binding contract with a seller under the "pretense" of an investor/buyer, "knowing" that you are not interested in buying and therefore that constitutes a "Business Opportunity", or "Negotiating of a sale", no?

Either way, it does not matter what others do, I am concerned with what I do. But, I would like to hear what others on BP have to say about this as I am new to the entire RE industry.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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Real Estate Investor · Irmo, SC · Member since 2012 · 106 posts · 90 votes
9y

I worked as a wholesaler in the DC area for about 3 years and closed 9 deals in that time. For most of the time, I was unlicensed. I got my license towards the end but found it pretty useless as a wholesaler and never did anything as an agent. 

I am confused: how does one use one's RE license to wholesale? The whole idea behind wholesaling is that as a wholesaler, you are representing your own interest and not the interest of anyone else in the transaction, not the seller, not the end buyer. As a RE agent, you are representing some other party in the transaction with a legal obligation to work for that person's best interest. You can't do both in the same transaction. Even as a wholesaler with an RE license, you have to make sure the seller and buyer understand that you are not working on their behalf but on your own behalf.

As for wholesalers being shady, that is a character trait, not an occupational trait. RE agents can be shady. And getting your RE license in not a substitution for training or a sign of competence in real estate. It means you passed a background check and a test (although I will allow that that does have its own value). If your argument is against lack of training or ethics or both, then your argument is not with wholesalers but with human nature.

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  • Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes
    9y
    Hey Kurt, I actually did a lot of research in this subject in Florida my self when looking how to expand my PM company. One of the things I have notice that seasoned wholesalers (not the guys that just get a book and read for a week) the use transactional funding to bridge the gap between when they put it under contact and when there buyer/investor get the contract. They also have a crazy list of investors that they can call at a dime to buy properties. From what I was told this way would show that you have the fund to purchase. Go through with the purchase (i.e. Double closing) . There aren't many title companies in Florida that are good at this and I would say unless you have the correct financing in place to hold the property long enough to show it was bought by you it will be seen as illegal from what you just said.
  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes
    9y

    `I am in Orlando and am an investor and wholesaler. I use a local title company to do my double closes and I don't need transactional funding as long as the buyer is strong financially. And yes I have over 400 cash buyers on my private buyers email list and I have several thousand more by using 2 specific member websites that caters to just investors. As long as the deal is a good one, I get my properties sold quickly. Others take a lot longer. I even got a contract on a property 1 hour after sending out the email. 

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
    9y

    Hey, another "All Wholesalers Are Crooks" thread that's trending on BP.  It wouldn't be a week on BP without one of these with the same cast of characters taking the same sides over and over.

    Happy New Year.

  • Title Agent · Maitland, FL · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    I am a title agent with an investor friendly title company in Orlando.  I exclusively close simultaneous deals and assignments.  As long as your end buyer is aware that it is a simultaneous transaction, double closing is perfectly legal in the state of Florida.  As for transactional funding, this is rarely used or needed in my experience.  Everything is dependent on how you structure your deals.  Seasoned wholesalers do in fact have huge buyer lists, but they also structure their deals as such to protect themselves when their buyers fall out.  Or they are financially able to purchase and hold until they find a willing buyer.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Ryan Peterson  the bigger wholesalers I have seen in Orlando like Altrua these guys are all licensed. so end of that problem.. I probably funded 250 files for their clients the last 3 years.

    they were just taking fees and not double closing at least it appeared that way to me.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Sean Cole  your licensed  so you don't count  LOL... !!!

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2012 · 506 posts · 331 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs that's funny!  I suppose it's just the nature of the site with all of the new people that find the site and ask the same sort of questions that we've all seen, along with the same folks being active and/or having keyword searches set up.  I'm beginning to get a complex, though.  Probably not all that different than how ambulance chasing attorneys, er personal injury attorneys feel.

    Remember kids, rarely using the words "all", "none", "always", and "never" is a good idea.  So few things in life are that easily categorized.

    To the topic at hand, I'll speak to my experience in Ohio, which is decidedly unfriendly to wholesalers/wholesaling.  The biggest issue that gets people in trouble here is advertising.  If your buyer's list is small enough or you know it well enough to only market via voice communication, you can probably operate with impunity in the State.  If you send out mass emails or post things on (pick your favorite website) with full property details, you'll get really familiar with the Division of Real Estate and not in a good way.

    There are ways to advertise without running afoul of the folks in Columbus, some of which have been shared on BP in the past.  I won't share the other tips I've learned, as it cost me a ton of time and headaches to figure out and it's one of the only barriers to entry in my chosen line of work.  It can be done, though.

    Generally speaking, I'd counsel everyone to remember the truism "If you lie with dogs, you're bound to get fleas."  Operate with integrity and surround yourself with people who do the same, and things will have a tendency to work out in your favor.  "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice."  Don't try to get one over on anyone.  Be a good person.  Be the type of businessperson that you'd want to do business with.  Don't sit on BiggerPockets lumping ALL of anyone into any categories.  Just because you don't agree with their chosen line of work doesn't make you any more right than they are.  Say something nice about someone you don't agree with.

    Happy New Year (again)

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Sean Cole  or in other words the cream rises to the top  !!!... really up to the regulators to decide what they want to do..

    My comments are in my way of thinking  just simple logic... why have a Real estate commission or industry if licenses are not required to bring parties together.

    However as you say its really up to each individual to dial in their moral compass.

    I close a lot of deals that some wholesalers are tagged into.. I don't know them they don't know me .. I am just the funding source... The bigger one's that I do know like and Altura in Orlando were I probably bought close to 10 million dollars worth of deals from them.. they know me I know them.

    and as a cash buyer you can imagine the amount of direct mail I get .. and phone calls etc.. most of it generic and exactly like the last guys post card simply because that's what they are taught the few times I acutally called them.. I could tell they were knew reading form a script.. so its those that have no real training that can foul up a seller pretty good.. and that is what those of us in the industry and are licensed do not like to see

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    As long as 5% is considered "substantial". I always like the opportunity to market a winning foreclosure (as in courthouse sale, 5% deposit with court (or trustee in trustee states)) even if I don't try. I know this isn't the gist of the law, going after cash buyers. Most reasonable people understand the intent. But common sense ain't so common..

  • Lender · Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 121 posts · 74 votes
    9y

    Let's just all keep in mind that just because someone is licensed doesn't mean they know what they are doing or are doing it legally.  Happy New Year all 

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    Yes @John Thedford I do recall. lol.

    What I notice is that many wholesalers are thriving because they are good at the internet, You Tube videos, etc. They are advertising and selling properties using a website and social media as well as attracting buyers/investors online.

    There should be heavy rules regarding illegal online RE dealings too, not sure if they exist already. Not just properties, but many wholesalers are selling wholesaling info online as some kind of REI education. 

    I am an internet marketer myself and have a public friendly website for my RE Business, but in trying to figure out how I can legally use it to enhance my business, I realized that I would be violating tons of FL RE laws by also owning a website LLC doing RE business online, soliciting etc, without a license.

    I was one of those that did every search I possibly could to see if I could wholesale without a license and cut corners, but then I realized no matter what, it is illegal and besides, all that research made me realize that having the RE license will only enhance my entire operation.

  • Real Estate Investor · Irmo, SC · Member since 2012 · 106 posts · 90 votes
    9y

    I worked as a wholesaler in the DC area for about 3 years and closed 9 deals in that time. For most of the time, I was unlicensed. I got my license towards the end but found it pretty useless as a wholesaler and never did anything as an agent. 

    I am confused: how does one use one's RE license to wholesale? The whole idea behind wholesaling is that as a wholesaler, you are representing your own interest and not the interest of anyone else in the transaction, not the seller, not the end buyer. As a RE agent, you are representing some other party in the transaction with a legal obligation to work for that person's best interest. You can't do both in the same transaction. Even as a wholesaler with an RE license, you have to make sure the seller and buyer understand that you are not working on their behalf but on your own behalf.

    As for wholesalers being shady, that is a character trait, not an occupational trait. RE agents can be shady. And getting your RE license in not a substitution for training or a sign of competence in real estate. It means you passed a background check and a test (although I will allow that that does have its own value). If your argument is against lack of training or ethics or both, then your argument is not with wholesalers but with human nature.

  • Realtor · celebration, kissimmee FL · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    hello bp friends 

    when I attended the real state class back in 2003  IFREC orlando florida , I remember my  instructor had already 35 years in the business  was big in this advice .what you learn in this class is for you to learn principles and laws and regulations to be able to pass your state exam  and get your license ,but when you go out there in the  real world it's totally different story .  and the state is big about commission they target the subject in so many topics in this class ,the home owner have right to rent sale list to advertise  the property or have an emediate family member designated to do the same roll on behalf of the owner of the property  but  with a power of attorney for it to be legal . I have a mentor he advise me to do wholesaling  only if it's legal in my state but after reading on BP I'M kinda lost here ,everybody dose it in florida so here is my question to any one doing it for the moment can you please tell me how you are able to do it legally if there is a legal way ? I'm sure there is a legal way  hey I'm just hopeful lol thank you in advance .

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed I am sure having a really strong Cash Buyer's list will  make things a whole lot easier, lol. And you also are using online lead generation which doubles and triples your list building abilities. Congrats on your successes. 

    So what you are saying, is that you do a double closing using your buyer's cash and you receive an assignment fee or the difference between your contract price with seller and sale price to the buyer at the closing? I'm not sure I get your process? I mean, I understand the double closing by your buyer, but that means he has to shell out for your original contract with seller and his transaction with you? You must have some pretty cool, understanding buyers and a truly investor savvy title company?

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Sean Cole  Thanks for the input. I guess being a newbie, I may hash old answered questions from eons ago.

    Happy New Year

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs . I was wondering about @Sean Cole because the way his website is set up and structured, that's TOO legit to be an unlicensed Business website. lol

  • Concord, NC · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 20 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:

    @Jacob Pereira

    1. Very easy to show when the guy has been involved in several deals and never closed one, easy to show the guy was broke and couldn't perform. The reason he walks away is to keep from breaking laws, screwing around with people.....OR, doesn't walk away and learns how to close in his name without his own money, at that point he will have the intent and ability to buy.

    2. It is the intent of the law that can land you in trouble, not just the letter of it.

    3. No, that's debate, straw man is a middle man facilitating a transaction between a real buyer and seller in a business transaction, the concept was around in the 1800's when the railroad was buying land for expansion, not a new term or concept.

    4. Buyer's agency????  Understand "The Laws of Agency" in business law, different types, certain acts or even lack of action, create an agency between an agent and principal under law, you don't need no contract, or stink'n badges, lol. The fact that a guy tries to find a real buyer to facilitate a transaction for the benefit of the owner, and at a profit or not, can constitute an agency relationship by law.

    There is never a good reason to do the wrong thing, wholesaling by assignment is the wrong thing to do, close in your name then sell it. Just learn how to close without your own money, not hard to do. :) 

    With regards to your epilogue (and given most this thread seem to be about assignment), what's your take on double closing then? under the assumption that the wholesaler DOES have sufficient funds? 6 of one half a dozen of the other?

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Sam Ally . That is true, too. But we are speaking about legal vs illegal wholesaling not the individuals knowledge base. That goes both ways for licensed and unlicensed wholesaler. 

    The point of DBPR is to protect consumers from fraud, misinformation, etc. and the FREC  is responsible for making sure all individuals procuring any kind of real estate transaction to be properly educated in the industry and its laws.

    Happy New Year!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Kurt Charles  Stephan is an agent as well.. I am an broker in 3 states.. wholesaling with a license or buying for your own portfolio and flipping is quite easy I never had a problem with sellers or buyers in all my years.

    for sellers you simply disclose your a licensed principal and your buying the property for profit or loss.  and to the buyer you disclose the same thing your a principal in the transacation..

    put it in writing in the contracts and your golden.. I have NEVER had an issue with this.

    Although to be fair I can only count on one hand the amount of pass through escrows I have done.. and those were all pretty large deals.. with me selling a land plat to a big or national builder and pocketing a 500k plus pass through profit.. ( which those are quite nice.).. little stuff we just close.

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Sekelle O. Anyone can wholesale with or without a license, it just takes knowledge of the game. What we are discussing is the laws regarding doing it without a license. There is no difference in my opinion doing it with or without a license except in one case you could be fined and face punishment and in the other, you have no worries with the State laws.

    I also agree that morality is individual.

    As an RE license holder, yes, you have to disclose yourself as an agent every time, so that may suck sometimes or I believe it can work to ones advantage also. 

    Point is, without laws of a land, there will be chaos. Doing it without a license and getting away with it, does not mean that is what should be taught to others. 

    To each their own, but from what I gather, you have your license, so good for you.

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Amal Benkiran Thanks for your response. I am in Florida and in the process of getting my RE license. Just like you I was looking for the answers to wholesaling legally without a license. 

    Harsh truth: The only legal way is if you own the properties, meaning buy it, then re sell it, or if you hold an RE license and connect sellers and buyers or you already have a strong buyer list that understands you are a wholesaler and funds your entire transaction.

    It is illegal without an RE license to wholesale properties otherwise, no matter what you hear, not impossible, but illegal. Plus, why not get all the education benefits of becoming licensed and also being an investor?

    Good luck in your endeavors. I would not recommend illegal activities to anyone, so I personally have no advice for you regarding how to wholesale without a license. The key to any success in any Business is education. Get educated on what you are trying to do, then make an informed decision.

  • Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes
    9y

    @Kurt Charles My method to get paid is if I am making less than $10,000 on a deal then I do an assignment, but if I'm making more than $10,000 then I do a double close. I don't want to seller or buyer knowing how much I'm making on the deal. Especially the buyer because I want to be able to use them later as a buyer on another property. Yes there are two investor savvy title companies in the Orlando area: Southern Title and Abstract and Southeast Professional Title. 

    @Jay Hinrichs is absolutely right. I always divulge to both sellers and buyers that I'm an agent. Some wholesale deals I am acting as an agent only for other investors that have contracts on these houses. But you need a RE License in order to do that. 

    For everybody else the ONLY way to legally wholesale a house without a license is you HAVE TO HAVE EQUITABLE INTEREST in the deal, meaning you have to have a contract with the owner in order to market it to other investors. 

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Account Closed. I am in the process of also getting the FL RE license to open up more options for me. Appreciate the insights.

  • Winter Park, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 26 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs . I guess some unlicensed people are making false claims about how being an RE agent will 'hinder' investing because you have to disclose to everyone you are an agent. 

    But, it seems every agent/investor is saying how great it all works out for them, so I'll go with the getting the RE license route and forget the backdoor mentality, which I am in the process of acquiring.

    Thanks for all the great insights.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    @Kurt Charles

    Being an agent allows you to LIST or purchase. Either way, you have more options than working as an unlicensed broker or strictly as an investor. My most recent listing came about because the man called wanting me to purchase his house. I didn't purchase but did list it and now have it under contract for sale.

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