Do You Think Direct Mail Is Dead????

38 Replies

I need your input do you think direct mail is dead

I ask this question being facetious, honestly it depends on the market. Look at this deal we closed with direct mail being a marketing source.

My initial conversation with the seller was 6 months earlier. I told the seller due to the condition they would be better off selling the property. Due to being transparent the seller called me 4 months after our initial conversation and stated although they will be taking a huge loss they just need to sell it and move on. The sellers husband was deceased and the house brought back bad memories.
Here are the numbers:

Purchase Price: $51,600

ARV: $185,000

Rehab: $0.00 yes $0.00

Sold: 2 Weeks on market for $142,000 as a wholetail deal.

Here's just a few pics

I know a lot of people doing hundreds of deals a year with direct mail only. Consistency is the key. You have to be consistent in your mailing as well as the follow up. Even 6 months and beyond.

Direct mail is all about the numbers. If you mail enough, the leads will come. It then falls on you to close the deal and make it worth your while. Otherwise, if you do not do the hard work, and you are poor at following up, it will become a very expensive waste of time in the long run. 

All boils down to consistency and follow up.  It's not as easy as sending a postcard.  You've got to get down and do some dirty work to complete the deal.  Direct mail works for me and in our market.  I've discussed this with several wholesalers and it seems to be the #1 lead source in our market.

Originally posted by @Greg Dickerson :

I know a lot of people doing hundreds of deals a year with direct mail only. Consistency is the key. You have to be consistent in your mailing as well as the follow up. Even 6 months and beyond.

@Greg Dickerson I’m a full believer in DM I hear everyone discussion cold calling which I am not opposed of, but I’ve been having success with direct mail for years. Investors especially new investors drop the ball because they don’t have an adequate budget to continue marketing and they only look for the low hanging fruit.


Thanks for input

Originally posted by @Calvin Ozanick :

Direct mail is all about the numbers. If you mail enough, the leads will come. It then falls on you to close the deal and make it worth your while. Otherwise, if you do not do the hard work, and you are poor at following up, it will become a very expensive waste of time in the long run. 

@Calvin Ozanick You’re right direct mail is too expensive not to do the hard work of following up. It’s all about the numbers and the follow up. This deal above for example; the initial conversation was basically a dead but following sealed the deal.

Thanks for the reply hopefully people will understand it takes work and a little magic.

Thanks for posting this.  My first batch of DMM just went out.  I'm sending out 1,000 pieces per week for... well... ever!  :)

As a novice investor like my self who has never tried direct mail I'm struggling to pick a direction for lead generation. I'm focused on SFH, $50-100K price point, C-B class neighborhoods like most Midwest investors.

My investor brain wants me to try it, my millennial brain is telling me DM is dead, you're dumb don't waste your time!  

DMM is not dead. And it will never die.

However it is becoming harder and harder, as more and more investors are entering this space, and everyone keeps telling everyone that "DMM is all about the numbers,  consistency is key". I agree that if you want to make a deal doing DMM that this is the way you have to tackle it.

But this advice is similar to, "if you want to catch a chicken keep running after it... one day you are bound to catch it".

Instead of "get a shotgun and blast the entire area the chicken is in".

The reason you have to just sent out a TON of mailers and keep at it, is BECAUSE it is a CRAPPY lead generation method. I just don't get how people do not see this. I mean some here said it themselves... You need to SEND A LOT of mailers and you have to keep harassing  (also known on BP as "follow up") to get the deal.

I mean really?!

Isn't this not direct proof that DMM sucks?! Yet people still will tell you that DMM is a good lead gen method.

I mean come on peops. NO DMM is not acceptable. 

But hey... keep doing it. The more of you all doing this the  more leads I get. 

Originally posted by @Jaron Walling :

As a novice investor like my self who has never tried direct mail I'm struggling to pick a direction for lead generation. I'm focused on SFH, $50-100K price point, C-B class neighborhoods like most Midwest investors.

My investor brain wants me to try it, my millennial brain is telling me DM is dead, you're dumb don't waste your time!  

those that I see that are successful with it and especially in your market.. they have people that work for them that once lead comes in someone is at their door that day or next day latest..  if you don't have the time for instant follow up you could be losing deals to those that are vertically integrated and working a market Like Indy

Originally posted by @Jaron Walling :

@Jay Hinrichs Thank you for the advice. I have that availability with my current 9-5 job. When you started out did you employ direct mail? 

yes but I only went after foreclosures and timber.. and only when we could not knock on the door. Or in the case of timber they did not live on the property and we could not find their phone numbers.. I have never set up to buy low end rentals via any kind of mail or door knock campaign.  But I get a lot of direct mail myself. 

@Marcus Maloney - No way is direct mail dead.  Definitely, it seems like a lot of folks are shifting away from direct mail, mainly due to technology like ringless voicemails and text messages.  I have a handful of friends here in Chicago that are still doing a ton of direct mail and getting deals.  I think it's simply about consistency in order to make sure you are top of mind when someone is in distress and needs to sell. 

@Jerryll Noorden obviously you have a method of getting leads that works for you; however, to say that DMM is terrible or that it sucks simply because the conversion rates are small shows you do not understand sales as a whole. Sales is a numbers game that requires a thick skin. Individually most techniques are difficult and frustrating; however, if you pool a few together AND work them consistently then you will eventually build momentum and have more leads than you can manage yourself. It’s like a loaded freight train, it takes a long time to get momentum but, once you have it, it’s nearly impossible to stop.

Originally posted by @Marcus Maloney :

I need your input do you think direct mail is dead

I ask this question being facetious, honestly it depends on the market. Look at this deal we closed with direct mail being a marketing source.

My initial conversation with the seller was 6 months earlier. I told the seller due to the condition they would be better off selling the property. Due to being transparent the seller called me 4 months after our initial conversation and stated although they will be taking a huge loss they just need to sell it and move on. The sellers husband was deceased and the house brought back bad memories.
Here are the numbers:

Purchase Price: $51,600

ARV: $185,000

Rehab: $0.00 yes $0.00

Sold: 2 Weeks on market for $142,000 as a wholetail deal.

Here's just a few pics

 Never worth the cost. We are about to be in the 2020s. Most people can tell what kind of mail they are getting and many just toss it right out. Even the ones that "look" handwritten. I have talked to so many people and they get mad when they get those. The ones I have talked to feel like someone is trying to trick them by making it seem like it is handwritten.

if it works for you, that's fine. I just think it is old school and on its way out. 

Originally posted by @Jeshua Patrick :

@Jerryll Noorden obviously you have a method of getting leads that works for you; however, to say that DMM is terrible or that it sucks simply because the conversion rates are small shows you do not understand sales as a whole. Sales is a numbers game that requires a thick skin. Individually most techniques are difficult and frustrating; however, if you pool a few together AND work them consistently then you will eventually build momentum and have more leads than you can manage yourself. It’s like a loaded freight train, it takes a long time to get momentum but, once you have it, it’s nearly impossible to stop.

 Honestly I was just laughing when I read your response.

YES wtf?! that is EXACTLY what it means.

YES what the hell? because of EXACTLY what I said DMM SUCKS BUTT!!!

If you are telling me that if you spend 300 dollars and you make 500 dolalrs in return ("sales") then the method does not suck?! then my friend.. it is YOU that doesn't know much about sales.

No one is talking about profits. Sure DMM can make you a profit. So can D4d, CC, bandit signs.. but that still can absolutely mean it does suck!

Lets look deeper into why DMM sucks. (note I give DATA!!, not opinions)

The open rate is what 5%?

Out of that 5% open rate about 85% of them are negative responses.

So let me tell you something. ANY mechanical system that is less than 80% efficient is deemed worthless by today's standard.

Now, you have to spend a TON of money for pretty much miserable deals.

You have to skip trace, you have to buy a list, filter the list, have 3 numbers to track which mailer performs better, follow up, 

bla bla bla

for what for a miserable 3% success rate?

Dude I have NO idea what and how you measure success and efficiency, but let me tell you something... this is NOT a matter of opinion. This is DATA numbers, facts period.

You can have your opinion by all means! Sure you can do your DMM but you can NOT tell me or anyone that DMM is not terrible.

Where is your proof?

Show me your numbers. Convince me other than just mere words that DMM does not suck.

That is the problem with a bunch of you peops. You throw opinions around and sell them as facts/data.

NO my dude those are OPINIONS.

Let me give you facts. Let me give you what is the "norm" for me. Let me show you want is TRULY a good system.

These leads are FREE

HIGHLY motivated.

Every day

I don't lift a finger.

I do NOTHING

I don't follow up. (They follow up with ME).

I don't track anything

I poop, eat, go to the beach travel, and when I get back, I have 20 more leads waiting for me.

THAT is a good system.

How can you POSSIBLY say that DMM is acceptable?! Why because everyone else is doing it?

Again.

Dont make empty claims. Show me numbers. Prove to me/us/yourself, why you say DMM does not suck. Do not come with unrelated analogies why it doesn't suck. That doesn't work on smart people.

Don't be so fast to tell someone they don't understand something when you have no data to show.

I don't care how much money you make doing DMM. The idea sucks, the system sucks, the application sucks, the yelling sucks, the  "remove me from your damn list" sucks

Everything about it sucks!

you know what really irks me?

"Ohh you have found a system that works for you".

NO I didn't find a system that works for me. I found a system that WORKS! Don't belittle my system into it working only for some people. Don't make it seem like luck.

I develop my strategies from actual testing and data I collect. It is experimenting planning and developing. With proven battle tested results!  Try to say the same for DMM.

"ohh what color do I make my mailer??" Oh please!

Originally posted by @Tom Ott :
Originally posted by @Marcus Maloney:

I need your input do you think direct mail is dead

I ask this question being facetious, honestly it depends on the market. Look at this deal we closed with direct mail being a marketing source.

My initial conversation with the seller was 6 months earlier. I told the seller due to the condition they would be better off selling the property. Due to being transparent the seller called me 4 months after our initial conversation and stated although they will be taking a huge loss they just need to sell it and move on. The sellers husband was deceased and the house brought back bad memories.
Here are the numbers:

Purchase Price: $51,600

ARV: $185,000

Rehab: $0.00 yes $0.00

Sold: 2 Weeks on market for $142,000 as a wholetail deal.

Here's just a few pics

 Never worth the cost. We are about to be in the 2020s. Most people can tell what kind of mail they are getting and many just toss it right out. Even the ones that "look" handwritten. I have talked to so many people and they get mad when they get those. The ones I have talked to feel like someone is trying to trick them by making it seem like it is handwritten.

if it works for you, that's fine. I just think it is old school and on its way out. 

 EXACTLY!!