Property under contract and tenant won’t allow showing

Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes

6y

Originally posted by :

I have seen and met the victims of these operators. They are a plague. BTW nobody is talking about this "buyer" failing and leaving the seller screwed. If that happens the OP would never admit it and just move on to their next victim.

Contract wholesaling 101 leave yourself outs. Enough said.

Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes

6y

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Shane H.:

Eh... He's a real estate agent. I can see the frustration. He spent the time and money getting licensed only to have people who didn't doing the exact same job. While I'm generally anti license for anything, where the license exists it's frustrating to see those without breaking the law and reaping the benefits. Like stalking a buck all year waiting for season to open and having some poacher shoot it pre season.

that's a good analogy.. I mean you would not go fishing without getting a fishing license right ? or hunt without a license right.

or in my world of private aviation the YAHOO who gets a student ticket and then flys as a student for 30 years.. when really he or she is pilot in command and is required to have a license.. Although I suspect very FEW female pilots would do this. Just the Yahoo males.

We are going to end up with a limit on how many properties we can sell in a year just like cars. This is how it happens.

Podcast Guest on Show #222

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @Shane H.:

We are going to end up with a limit on how many properties we can sell in a year just like cars. This is how it happens.

that's what Illinois did.. I think they said you can do ONE.. but double check if your in that state.

JLH Capital Partners51 Review

Website View Page

Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes

6y

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Shane H.:

We are going to end up with a limit on how many properties we can sell in a year just like cars. This is how it happens.

that's what Illinois did.. I think they said you can do ONE.. but double check if your in that state.

Thankfully not.

The story if how I never got started wholesaling contracts. I went to a free seminar. Heard about this great way to make money in real estate with none of my own money. Now I've been in business myself for some time. I make okay money, but starting with nothing I lack the speed I desire. I invest more to make more every year. I thought this was a great way to boost that for a year or two. I have a business attorney who handles my contacts and deed work. I asked him to review the contracts I would use to do that. He flat out told me it's not legal. He said some interpret it differently, but there is no legal way for the end buyer to pay me unless I've already transferred into my name. I asked about double closing. He said maybe, but that runs very close to selling real estate without a license and he was unwilling to review the contracts. I don't use contracts that I don't have reviewed by an attorney. The idea of forming and selling an LLC came up, I forget the exact reason he didn't like that, but that was the closest to making it legal in his opinion. At the end of the day he told me if that's what I want to do go get a license, Or wholesale the right way by buying the propeety. Then selling it.

Clayton Boyle

Real Estate Agent · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 97 posts · 76 votes

6y

She has showed no signs of getting ready to move out even though I’ve told her she’s got 10-14 days to vacate.

What am I missing here? I don't understand how someone who does not own the property can tell a tenant to vacate, regardless of her relationship to the home owner. That seems wildly inappropriate and not within the authority of merely being under contract to buy a property. This would be responsibility of who ever owns the property, whether that's her dad, your eventual buyer after they close, or the bank after they foreclose.

3 Reply

[email protected]215-999-3005

Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes

6y

Originally posted by @Clayton Boyle:

She has showed no signs of getting ready to move out even though I’ve told her she’s got 10-14 days to vacate.

What am I missing here? I don't understand how someone who does not own the property can tell a tenant to vacate, regardless of her relationship to the home owner. That seems wildly inappropriate and not within the authority of merely being under contract to buy a property. My gut says this should be responsibility of who ever owns the property, whether that's her dad, your eventual buyer after they close, or the bank after they foreclose.

Contract wholesalers have been told they have a stake in the property. They believe that. Like I pointed out earlier this makes it abundantly clear you do not. Try starting the eviction process with a contract that you put $100 on...

2 Reply

Garrett Wilson

Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 15 votes

6y

@John Thedford There is no need to threaten and abuse the OP. He clearly stated it was the first time he was attempting to wholesale and he is obviously here to get educated (as that is why people use BiggerPockets). You took many assumptions to think that he was "playing games" and felt entitlement to be "above the law" when he may just not be as familiar with the law as you are. If that is the case, take the time to educate him in a respectful way so that he can avoid breaking any laws and take the correct approach in the future. Your immature attitude throughout your posts are discouraging to people who want to ask questions on the BP forum because they will be in fear that abusive users like you will provide threats instead of advice.

8 Reply

Marco PadillaPro Member

Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 104 posts · 50 votes

6y

@Jacob Kline Have you considered making her an offer to move out? Cash for keys type of deal or anything along those lines? Just a thought, if you stand to make a decent profit try it or at least consider it. G-luck!

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Would double-closing this transaction appease Liam Neeson (aka John Thedford)?

If you are double-closing on the same day, then you are still marketing the property before you own it. It is impossible to close, find a buyer and close again in the same day. It just comes down to state laws. It has nothing to do with John Thedfold. He has no authority to prosecute anyone. You can mock him or ignore him. (Although as a mod I should remind everyone that personal attacks are prohibited on BP.)

I think the disconnect is people are confusing "I won't get caught" with "it is legal". Or it is just ignorance of the law? This is the reason so many states require licensing in a variety of professions. Licensing means you go through education that teaches you the law and professional ethics. In most states you need a license to do something as simple as cut hair. Why is it unreasonable to ask the same of people transacting tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars?

can't really find anything concrete on the double-close process. can you or John cite some statutes?

looks like the biggest beef stems from using buyer's funds to cover your A-B costs:

The Fine Print

But what they don't remember in their real estate training or research is the words "For Another" in the state's real estate statute. (Maybe they missed that day

of real estate class)Now what this means is if you're not doing it for another, you're doing it for yourself, and that makes it entirely legal for you to wholesale real estate. In addition to the "For Another" verbiage, many states additional say "For A Fee." Now don't confuse your assignment fee with what the state law is talking about here.

When they say "For A Fee," they're referring to someone (you) charging a fee for your services, and that's not at all what you're doing. In your transaction, the buyer/investor is paying you a fee to assign your contract to them, not for real estate brokerage or any real estate service you provided. Now there are a few states

that don't use the "For Another" verbiage, but in those cases, they typically add exemptions to their state real estate law's which will say "Except Property You Own." Now obviously, in a double closing, you will be closing on the property before you resell it to your investor/buyer so you will clearly have ownership in the property.

Equitable Rights

In an assignment however, we have to look at contract law, which says when you enter into a contract with someone you have what is called "Equitable Ownership"

or " Equitable Interest," which gives you the right to resell or assign the real estate contract. Although I don't advocate sitting down with your seller and explaining in-depth how you intend to contract the property, then immediately turn around and assign it to someone for a fee. I do suggest having verbiage in your contract that explains that you could assign the contract just to protect yourself. If you're doing a double closing this verbiage isn't necessary, but you might want to disclose to the buyer that you do not own the property yet, but you will have ownership prior to closing. (they should already understand this, but it's always best to cover your bases)

Statutes i was able to locate (i'm no legal expert):

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 818
SALE OF MORTGAGED PERSONAL PROPERTY; SIMILAR OFFENSES

View Entire Chapter

818.05 Sale, concealment, or disposal of property held under contract or conditional sale; penalty.—(1) No person who is in possession of any personal property under and by virtue of any contract or conditional sale or otherwise where the title to said personal property does not vest in the possessor, shall sell, conceal or dispose of such personal property without first having the written consent of the person then having or retaining the bona fide title to such personal property so to sell, dispose of, or conceal the same.(2) Any person who shall violate the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 7860, 1919; CGL 7230, 7321; s. 891, ch. 71-136.

475.42 Violations and penalties.—(1) VIOLATIONS.—(a) A
person may not operate as a broker or sales associate without being the
holder of a valid and current active license therefor. Any person who
violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable
as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, or, if a corporation, as provided in s. 775.083.

Looks like the biggest beef is operating as an agent (taking commission, etc.). however, aren't most wholesalers taking a fee for the contract itself (assignment) and not for their services?

Definition of who is considered a broker in FL: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/sta...

475.01 Definitions.—(1) As used in this part:(a) “Broker”
means a person who, for another, and for a compensation or valuable
consideration directly or indirectly paid or promised, expressly or
impliedly, or with an intent to collect or receive a compensation or
valuable consideration therefor, appraises, auctions, sells, exchanges,
buys, rents, or offers, attempts or agrees to appraise, auction, or
negotiate the sale, exchange, purchase, or rental of business
enterprises or business opportunities or any real property or any
interest in or concerning the same, including mineral rights or leases,
or who advertises or holds out to the public by any oral or printed
solicitation or representation that she or he is engaged in the business
of appraising, auctioning, buying, selling, exchanging, leasing, or
renting business enterprises or business opportunities or real property
of others or interests therein, including mineral rights, or who takes
any part in the procuring of sellers, purchasers, lessors, or lessees of
business enterprises or business opportunities or the real property of
another, or leases, or interest therein, including mineral rights, or
who directs or assists in the procuring of prospects or in the
negotiation or closing of any transaction which does, or is calculated
to, result in a sale, exchange, or leasing thereof, and who receives,
expects, or is promised any compensation or valuable consideration,
directly or indirectly therefor; and all persons who advertise rental
property information or lists. A broker renders a professional service
and is a professional within the meaning of s. 95.11(4)(a).
Where the term “appraise” or “appraising” appears in the definition of
the term “broker,” it specifically excludes those appraisal services
which must be performed only by a state-licensed or state-certified
appraiser, and those appraisal services which may be performed by a
registered trainee appraiser as defined in part II. The term “broker”
also includes any person who is a general partner, officer, or director
of a partnership or corporation which acts as a broker. The term
“broker” also includes any person or entity who undertakes to list or
sell one or more timeshare periods per year in one or more timeshare
plans on behalf of any number of persons, except as provided in ss. 475.011 and 721.20.

(3) Wherever
the word “operate” or “operating” as a broker, broker associate, or
sales associate appears in this chapter; in any order, rule, or
regulation of the commission; in any pleading, indictment, or
information under this chapter; in any court action or proceeding; or in
any order or judgment of a court, it shall be deemed to mean the
commission of one or more acts described in this chapter as constituting
or defining a broker, broker associate, or sales associate, not
including, however, any of the exceptions stated therein. A single such
act is sufficient to bring a person within the meaning of this chapter,
and each act, if prohibited herein, constitutes a separate offense.

They did pretty good on the language, but this "for another" talked about above is an interesting concept that I need more time to research.

2 Reply

Will B.

Southeast · Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 4 votes

6y

Wholesaling real estate is like wiping your a_s with a cotton ball, you're going to get sh_t on your fingers.

And I've never heard the wholesaling process explained well. There is a distinction between wholesaling and assigning a sales contract. The assignment itself may be legal in some states but rest of the activities are not.

Peter Sanchez

Real Estate Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2014 · 236 posts · 328 votes

6y

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Would double-closing this transaction appease Liam Neeson (aka John Thedford)?

If you are double-closing on the same day, then you are still marketing the property before you own it. It is impossible to close, find a buyer and close again in the same day. It just comes down to state laws. It has nothing to do with John Thedfold. He has no authority to prosecute anyone. You can mock him or ignore him. (Although as a mod I should remind everyone that personal attacks are prohibited on BP.)

I think the disconnect is people are confusing "I won't get caught" with "it is legal". Or it is just ignorance of the law? This is the reason so many states require licensing in a variety of professions. Licensing means you go through education that teaches you the law and professional ethics. In most states you need a license to do something as simple as cut hair. Why is it unreasonable to ask the same of people transacting tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars?

can't really find anything concrete on the double-close process. can you or John cite some statutes?

looks like the biggest beef stems from using buyer's funds to cover your A-B costs:

The Fine Print

But what they don't remember in their real estate training or research is the words "For Another" in the state's real estate statute. (Maybe they missed that day

of real estate class)Now what this means is if you're not doing it for another, you're doing it for yourself, and that makes it entirely legal for you to wholesale real estate. In addition to the "For Another" verbiage, many states additional say "For A Fee." Now don't confuse your assignment fee with what the state law is talking about here.

When they say "For A Fee," they're referring to someone (you) charging a fee for your services, and that's not at all what you're doing. In your transaction, the buyer/investor is paying you a fee to assign your contract to them, not for real estate brokerage or any real estate service you provided. Now there are a few states

that don't use the "For Another" verbiage, but in those cases, they typically add exemptions to their state real estate law's which will say "Except Property You Own." Now obviously, in a double closing, you will be closing on the property before you resell it to your investor/buyer so you will clearly have ownership in the property.

Equitable Rights

In an assignment however, we have to look at contract law, which says when you enter into a contract with someone you have what is called "Equitable Ownership"

or " Equitable Interest," which gives you the right to resell or assign the real estate contract. Although I don't advocate sitting down with your seller and explaining in-depth how you intend to contract the property, then immediately turn around and assign it to someone for a fee. I do suggest having verbiage in your contract that explains that you could assign the contract just to protect yourself. If you're doing a double closing this verbiage isn't necessary, but you might want to disclose to the buyer that you do not own the property yet, but you will have ownership prior to closing. (they should already understand this, but it's always best to cover your bases)

Statutes i was able to locate (i'm no legal expert):

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 818
SALE OF MORTGAGED PERSONAL PROPERTY; SIMILAR OFFENSES

View Entire Chapter

818.05 Sale, concealment, or disposal of property held under contract or conditional sale; penalty.—(1) No person who is in possession of any personal property under and by virtue of any contract or conditional sale or otherwise where the title to said personal property does not vest in the possessor, shall sell, conceal or dispose of such personal property without first having the written consent of the person then having or retaining the bona fide title to such personal property so to sell, dispose of, or conceal the same.(2) Any person who shall violate the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 7860, 1919; CGL 7230, 7321; s. 891, ch. 71-136.

475.42 Violations and penalties.—(1) VIOLATIONS.—(a) A
person may not operate as a broker or sales associate without being the
holder of a valid and current active license therefor. Any person who
violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable
as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, or, if a corporation, as provided in s. 775.083.

Looks like the biggest beef is operating as an agent (taking commission, etc.). however, aren't most wholesalers taking a fee for the contract itself (assignment) and not for their services?

Definition of who is considered a broker in FL: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/sta...

475.01 Definitions.—(1) As used in this part:(a) “Broker”
means a person who, for another, and for a compensation or valuable
consideration directly or indirectly paid or promised, expressly or
impliedly, or with an intent to collect or receive a compensation or
valuable consideration therefor, appraises, auctions, sells, exchanges,
buys, rents, or offers, attempts or agrees to appraise, auction, or
negotiate the sale, exchange, purchase, or rental of business
enterprises or business opportunities or any real property or any
interest in or concerning the same, including mineral rights or leases,
or who advertises or holds out to the public by any oral or printed
solicitation or representation that she or he is engaged in the business
of appraising, auctioning, buying, selling, exchanging, leasing, or
renting business enterprises or business opportunities or real property
of others or interests therein, including mineral rights, or who takes
any part in the procuring of sellers, purchasers, lessors, or lessees of
business enterprises or business opportunities or the real property of
another, or leases, or interest therein, including mineral rights, or
who directs or assists in the procuring of prospects or in the
negotiation or closing of any transaction which does, or is calculated
to, result in a sale, exchange, or leasing thereof, and who receives,
expects, or is promised any compensation or valuable consideration,
directly or indirectly therefor; and all persons who advertise rental
property information or lists. A broker renders a professional service
and is a professional within the meaning of s. 95.11(4)(a).
Where the term “appraise” or “appraising” appears in the definition of
the term “broker,” it specifically excludes those appraisal services
which must be performed only by a state-licensed or state-certified
appraiser, and those appraisal services which may be performed by a
registered trainee appraiser as defined in part II. The term “broker”
also includes any person who is a general partner, officer, or director
of a partnership or corporation which acts as a broker. The term
“broker” also includes any person or entity who undertakes to list or
sell one or more timeshare periods per year in one or more timeshare
plans on behalf of any number of persons, except as provided in ss. 475.011 and 721.20.

(3) Wherever
the word “operate” or “operating” as a broker, broker associate, or
sales associate appears in this chapter; in any order, rule, or
regulation of the commission; in any pleading, indictment, or
information under this chapter; in any court action or proceeding; or in
any order or judgment of a court, it shall be deemed to mean the
commission of one or more acts described in this chapter as constituting
or defining a broker, broker associate, or sales associate, not
including, however, any of the exceptions stated therein. A single such
act is sufficient to bring a person within the meaning of this chapter,
and each act, if prohibited herein, constitutes a separate offense.

They did pretty good on the language, but this "for another" talked about above is an interesting concept that I need more time to research.

You are tying to see what you want to see.

1) did you go to law school? If not, why are you rendering potentially dangerous legal advice to others? Why don't you not go to medical school instead and tell people about how vaccines are dangerous?

2) You seem to stuck on the term "for another." YOU DON'T OWN THE PROPERTY SO YOU ARE NOT DOING IT FOR YOURSELF. GET IT???? If you sack up and actually buy it and put it in your name (or get your license the way that someone without a criminal record can easily do, and follow the laws on brokering real estate), they you don't have to worry about doing something that will force you to have to answer "yes" to every job application or rental application that asks "have you ever been convicted of a felony."

John Thedford

Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Would double-closing this transaction appease Liam Neeson (aka John Thedford)?

If you are double-closing on the same day, then you are still marketing the property before you own it. It is impossible to close, find a buyer and close again in the same day. It just comes down to state laws. It has nothing to do with John Thedfold. He has no authority to prosecute anyone. You can mock him or ignore him. (Although as a mod I should remind everyone that personal attacks are prohibited on BP.)

I think the disconnect is people are confusing "I won't get caught" with "it is legal". Or it is just ignorance of the law? This is the reason so many states require licensing in a variety of professions. Licensing means you go through education that teaches you the law and professional ethics. In most states you need a license to do something as simple as cut hair. Why is it unreasonable to ask the same of people transacting tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars?

can't really find anything concrete on the double-close process. can you or John cite some statutes?

looks like the biggest beef stems from using buyer's funds to cover your A-B costs:

The Fine Print

But what they don't remember in their real estate training or research is the words "For Another" in the state's real estate statute. (Maybe they missed that day

of real estate class)Now what this means is if you're not doing it for another, you're doing it for yourself, and that makes it entirely legal for you to wholesale real estate. In addition to the "For Another" verbiage, many states additional say "For A Fee." Now don't confuse your assignment fee with what the state law is talking about here.

When they say "For A Fee," they're referring to someone (you) charging a fee for your services, and that's not at all what you're doing. In your transaction, the buyer/investor is paying you a fee to assign your contract to them, not for real estate brokerage or any real estate service you provided. Now there are a few states

that don't use the "For Another" verbiage, but in those cases, they typically add exemptions to their state real estate law's which will say "Except Property You Own." Now obviously, in a double closing, you will be closing on the property before you resell it to your investor/buyer so you will clearly have ownership in the property.

Equitable Rights

In an assignment however, we have to look at contract law, which says when you enter into a contract with someone you have what is called "Equitable Ownership"

or " Equitable Interest," which gives you the right to resell or assign the real estate contract. Although I don't advocate sitting down with your seller and explaining in-depth how you intend to contract the property, then immediately turn around and assign it to someone for a fee. I do suggest having verbiage in your contract that explains that you could assign the contract just to protect yourself. If you're doing a double closing this verbiage isn't necessary, but you might want to disclose to the buyer that you do not own the property yet, but you will have ownership prior to closing. (they should already understand this, but it's always best to cover your bases)

Statutes i was able to locate (i'm no legal expert):

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 818
SALE OF MORTGAGED PERSONAL PROPERTY; SIMILAR OFFENSES

View Entire Chapter

818.05 Sale, concealment, or disposal of property held under contract or conditional sale; penalty.—(1) No person who is in possession of any personal property under and by virtue of any contract or conditional sale or otherwise where the title to said personal property does not vest in the possessor, shall sell, conceal or dispose of such personal property without first having the written consent of the person then having or retaining the bona fide title to such personal property so to sell, dispose of, or conceal the same.(2) Any person who shall violate the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 7860, 1919; CGL 7230, 7321; s. 891, ch. 71-136.

475.42 Violations and penalties.—(1) VIOLATIONS.—(a) A
person may not operate as a broker or sales associate without being the
holder of a valid and current active license therefor. Any person who
violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable
as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, or, if a corporation, as provided in s. 775.083.

Looks like the biggest beef is operating as an agent (taking commission, etc.). however, aren't most wholesalers taking a fee for the contract itself (assignment) and not for their services?

Definition of who is considered a broker in FL: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/sta...

475.01 Definitions.—(1) As used in this part:(a) “Broker”
means a person who, for another, and for a compensation or valuable
consideration directly or indirectly paid or promised, expressly or
impliedly, or with an intent to collect or receive a compensation or
valuable consideration therefor, appraises, auctions, sells, exchanges,
buys, rents, or offers, attempts or agrees to appraise, auction, or
negotiate the sale, exchange, purchase, or rental of business
enterprises or business opportunities or any real property or any
interest in or concerning the same, including mineral rights or leases,
or who advertises or holds out to the public by any oral or printed
solicitation or representation that she or he is engaged in the business
of appraising, auctioning, buying, selling, exchanging, leasing, or
renting business enterprises or business opportunities or real property
of others or interests therein, including mineral rights, or who takes
any part in the procuring of sellers, purchasers, lessors, or lessees of
business enterprises or business opportunities or the real property of
another, or leases, or interest therein, including mineral rights, or
who directs or assists in the procuring of prospects or in the
negotiation or closing of any transaction which does, or is calculated
to, result in a sale, exchange, or leasing thereof, and who receives,
expects, or is promised any compensation or valuable consideration,
directly or indirectly therefor; and all persons who advertise rental
property information or lists. A broker renders a professional service
and is a professional within the meaning of s. 95.11(4)(a).
Where the term “appraise” or “appraising” appears in the definition of
the term “broker,” it specifically excludes those appraisal services
which must be performed only by a state-licensed or state-certified
appraiser, and those appraisal services which may be performed by a
registered trainee appraiser as defined in part II. The term “broker”
also includes any person who is a general partner, officer, or director
of a partnership or corporation which acts as a broker. The term
“broker” also includes any person or entity who undertakes to list or
sell one or more timeshare periods per year in one or more timeshare
plans on behalf of any number of persons, except as provided in ss. 475.011 and 721.20.

(3) Wherever
the word “operate” or “operating” as a broker, broker associate, or
sales associate appears in this chapter; in any order, rule, or
regulation of the commission; in any pleading, indictment, or
information under this chapter; in any court action or proceeding; or in
any order or judgment of a court, it shall be deemed to mean the
commission of one or more acts described in this chapter as constituting
or defining a broker, broker associate, or sales associate, not
including, however, any of the exceptions stated therein. A single such
act is sufficient to bring a person within the meaning of this chapter,
and each act, if prohibited herein, constitutes a separate offense.

They did pretty good on the language, but this "for another" talked about above is an interesting concept that I need more time to research.

"For another" ..marketing properties you do not own. That simple. I will be glad to post a couple "wholesalers" that got a cease and desist for marketing properties they did not own.

Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes

6y

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Would double-closing this transaction appease Liam Neeson (aka John Thedford)?

If you are double-closing on the same day, then you are still marketing the property before you own it. It is impossible to close, find a buyer and close again in the same day. It just comes down to state laws. It has nothing to do with John Thedfold. He has no authority to prosecute anyone. You can mock him or ignore him. (Although as a mod I should remind everyone that personal attacks are prohibited on BP.)

I think the disconnect is people are confusing "I won't get caught" with "it is legal". Or it is just ignorance of the law? This is the reason so many states require licensing in a variety of professions. Licensing means you go through education that teaches you the law and professional ethics. In most states you need a license to do something as simple as cut hair. Why is it unreasonable to ask the same of people transacting tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars?

can't really find anything concrete on the double-close process. can you or John cite some statutes?

looks like the biggest beef stems from using buyer's funds to cover your A-B costs:

The Fine Print

But what they don't remember in their real estate training or research is the words "For Another" in the state's real estate statute. (Maybe they missed that day

of real estate class)Now what this means is if you're not doing it for another, you're doing it for yourself, and that makes it entirely legal for you to wholesale real estate. In addition to the "For Another" verbiage, many states additional say "For A Fee." Now don't confuse your assignment fee with what the state law is talking about here.

When they say "For A Fee," they're referring to someone (you) charging a fee for your services, and that's not at all what you're doing. In your transaction, the buyer/investor is paying you a fee to assign your contract to them, not for real estate brokerage or any real estate service you provided. Now there are a few states

that don't use the "For Another" verbiage, but in those cases, they typically add exemptions to their state real estate law's which will say "Except Property You Own." Now obviously, in a double closing, you will be closing on the property before you resell it to your investor/buyer so you will clearly have ownership in the property.

Equitable Rights

In an assignment however, we have to look at contract law, which says when you enter into a contract with someone you have what is called "Equitable Ownership"

or " Equitable Interest," which gives you the right to resell or assign the real estate contract. Although I don't advocate sitting down with your seller and explaining in-depth how you intend to contract the property, then immediately turn around and assign it to someone for a fee. I do suggest having verbiage in your contract that explains that you could assign the contract just to protect yourself. If you're doing a double closing this verbiage isn't necessary, but you might want to disclose to the buyer that you do not own the property yet, but you will have ownership prior to closing. (they should already understand this, but it's always best to cover your bases)

Statutes i was able to locate (i'm no legal expert):

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 818
SALE OF MORTGAGED PERSONAL PROPERTY; SIMILAR OFFENSES

View Entire Chapter

818.05 Sale, concealment, or disposal of property held under contract or conditional sale; penalty.—(1) No person who is in possession of any personal property under and by virtue of any contract or conditional sale or otherwise where the title to said personal property does not vest in the possessor, shall sell, conceal or dispose of such personal property without first having the written consent of the person then having or retaining the bona fide title to such personal property so to sell, dispose of, or conceal the same.(2) Any person who shall violate the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 7860, 1919; CGL 7230, 7321; s. 891, ch. 71-136.

475.42 Violations and penalties.—(1) VIOLATIONS.—(a) A
person may not operate as a broker or sales associate without being the
holder of a valid and current active license therefor. Any person who
violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable
as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, or, if a corporation, as provided in s. 775.083.

Looks like the biggest beef is operating as an agent (taking commission, etc.). however, aren't most wholesalers taking a fee for the contract itself (assignment) and not for their services?

Definition of who is considered a broker in FL: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/sta...

475.01 Definitions.—(1) As used in this part:(a) “Broker”
means a person who, for another, and for a compensation or valuable
consideration directly or indirectly paid or promised, expressly or
impliedly, or with an intent to collect or receive a compensation or
valuable consideration therefor, appraises, auctions, sells, exchanges,
buys, rents, or offers, attempts or agrees to appraise, auction, or
negotiate the sale, exchange, purchase, or rental of business
enterprises or business opportunities or any real property or any
interest in or concerning the same, including mineral rights or leases,
or who advertises or holds out to the public by any oral or printed
solicitation or representation that she or he is engaged in the business
of appraising, auctioning, buying, selling, exchanging, leasing, or
renting business enterprises or business opportunities or real property
of others or interests therein, including mineral rights, or who takes
any part in the procuring of sellers, purchasers, lessors, or lessees of
business enterprises or business opportunities or the real property of
another, or leases, or interest therein, including mineral rights, or
who directs or assists in the procuring of prospects or in the
negotiation or closing of any transaction which does, or is calculated
to, result in a sale, exchange, or leasing thereof, and who receives,
expects, or is promised any compensation or valuable consideration,
directly or indirectly therefor; and all persons who advertise rental
property information or lists. A broker renders a professional service
and is a professional within the meaning of s. 95.11(4)(a).
Where the term “appraise” or “appraising” appears in the definition of
the term “broker,” it specifically excludes those appraisal services
which must be performed only by a state-licensed or state-certified
appraiser, and those appraisal services which may be performed by a
registered trainee appraiser as defined in part II. The term “broker”
also includes any person who is a general partner, officer, or director
of a partnership or corporation which acts as a broker. The term
“broker” also includes any person or entity who undertakes to list or
sell one or more timeshare periods per year in one or more timeshare
plans on behalf of any number of persons, except as provided in ss. 475.011 and 721.20.

(3) Wherever
the word “operate” or “operating” as a broker, broker associate, or
sales associate appears in this chapter; in any order, rule, or
regulation of the commission; in any pleading, indictment, or
information under this chapter; in any court action or proceeding; or in
any order or judgment of a court, it shall be deemed to mean the
commission of one or more acts described in this chapter as constituting
or defining a broker, broker associate, or sales associate, not
including, however, any of the exceptions stated therein. A single such
act is sufficient to bring a person within the meaning of this chapter,
and each act, if prohibited herein, constitutes a separate offense.

They did pretty good on the language, but this "for another" talked about above is an interesting concept that I need more time to research.

Eh... You might win in court, but you might not. The OP has openly admitted to running multiple showings of the property. To me that's going to be tough to say you didn't market the property for another. The second he scheduled a showing with another individual I believe he clearly stepped into agent territory.

This essentially creates a scenario where the fiduciary duty of the "middleman" is to himself. Now on the end buyers side this may not be a big deal, presumably they're an investor who should know enough. The seller though is an innocent party who agreed to sell their property to person a. Now their tenant is being disturbed to parade through persons b, c, d, e, f, g.

Those promoting wholesaling are stretching. Are their cases where selling the contract could be legal? Possibly. I believe the test is ability and intent.

Think investor whos last project runs too long. Fellow investor calls and says "hey I don't have anything to flip right now have any leads?"

first investor "I had one on the back burner that I haven't closed on, and this project ran too long. I'll sell you my interest for $1000."

In this scenario, the guy legitimately signed the contract for himself. has the funds to follow through, but passes it on to his ability he has ability and intent when he signs.

Hes not parading buyers through...

this MIGHT pass the test of a legitimate contract wholesale. If investigated he could show that he has bought in the past, has the money, this particular contract was sold to allow him to finish his last project. Or maybe to pursue a better one that came along. An individual who has never invested in real estate, has no money, and a single contract they're assigning would be tough to prove you had the ability or intent to keep it.

Joe SplitrockPro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes

6y

@Victor S. you are trying to make it sound like the laws are unclear. In reality you are just trying to exploit some loophole, but even if you try to stretch interpretation, that doesn't mean any judge is going to agree with it.

One thing to clarify is that every state has different laws, so what is allowed in one place may not be allowed in another.

There is a two major issues that wholesalers can run into:

1. Marketing a property without a license and without ownership.

2. Selling a property and collecting a fee without ownership.

You mention a double closing (simultaneous closing). This is when three parties are involved. Seller, intermediary and buyer. You execute paperwork so that the intermediary becomes the owner and then execute paperwork so that the buyer (third person) becomes the owner. This doesn't require any money for the intermediary, because the buyers funds go to the seller. People argue that this type of transaction gets around issue 2, because the intermediary is the owner right before the final buyer takes possession. Others argue they since they pay no money, but take a fee, that this is simply an attempt to skirt the law. Regardless, in a simultaneous closing, you are in violation of issue 1. It is impossible to setup a closing with a seller and buyer unless you have marketed to the buyer before you owned the property. That is just a fact. The buyer is identified before you own the property, therefore you marketed it before you owned it.

Some wholesalers buy and hold properties for a few days, then resell. In that situation they take ownership and there is time to market the property. I think that would be considered legal in every state, provided they are not marketing before they own it.

The rub in many states is that they consider an "assignment fee" an agent fee or commission. The logic is that the contract and the property are inseparable. It is hard to argue you are selling just a contract, when you are showing the property to the buyer.

There is "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law". Spirit of the law is actual intent. Letter of the law is the wording. Same theory applies in contract law with a lease. I may not specially state you cannot pour concrete down the drain. You may argue you had no knowledge it would cause damage, therefore you are not liable under a damage clause. The judge will rule that the spirit of the clause is anything that is foreseeable to cause damage. You can argue the concrete wasn't solid when you poured it, but that is a red herring argument. You can try to hang your hat on on creating your own definition of "for another" of "for a fee", but ultimately the spirit of the law is very clear.

If you are confused about your state law, call the real estate commission or the attorney general. Explain what you are doing and get their position. If you are unwilling to do this, that should answer your question.

4 Reply

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @Peter Sanchez:

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

Would double-closing this transaction appease Liam Neeson (aka John Thedford)?

If you are double-closing on the same day, then you are still marketing the property before you own it. It is impossible to close, find a buyer and close again in the same day. It just comes down to state laws. It has nothing to do with John Thedfold. He has no authority to prosecute anyone. You can mock him or ignore him. (Although as a mod I should remind everyone that personal attacks are prohibited on BP.)

I think the disconnect is people are confusing "I won't get caught" with "it is legal". Or it is just ignorance of the law? This is the reason so many states require licensing in a variety of professions. Licensing means you go through education that teaches you the law and professional ethics. In most states you need a license to do something as simple as cut hair. Why is it unreasonable to ask the same of people transacting tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars?

can't really find anything concrete on the double-close process. can you or John cite some statutes?

looks like the biggest beef stems from using buyer's funds to cover your A-B costs:

The Fine Print

But what they don't remember in their real estate training or research is the words "For Another" in the state's real estate statute. (Maybe they missed that day

of real estate class)Now what this means is if you're not doing it for another, you're doing it for yourself, and that makes it entirely legal for you to wholesale real estate. In addition to the "For Another" verbiage, many states additional say "For A Fee." Now don't confuse your assignment fee with what the state law is talking about here.

When they say "For A Fee," they're referring to someone (you) charging a fee for your services, and that's not at all what you're doing. In your transaction, the buyer/investor is paying you a fee to assign your contract to them, not for real estate brokerage or any real estate service you provided. Now there are a few states

that don't use the "For Another" verbiage, but in those cases, they typically add exemptions to their state real estate law's which will say "Except Property You Own." Now obviously, in a double closing, you will be closing on the property before you resell it to your investor/buyer so you will clearly have ownership in the property.

Equitable Rights

In an assignment however, we have to look at contract law, which says when you enter into a contract with someone you have what is called "Equitable Ownership"

or " Equitable Interest," which gives you the right to resell or assign the real estate contract. Although I don't advocate sitting down with your seller and explaining in-depth how you intend to contract the property, then immediately turn around and assign it to someone for a fee. I do suggest having verbiage in your contract that explains that you could assign the contract just to protect yourself. If you're doing a double closing this verbiage isn't necessary, but you might want to disclose to the buyer that you do not own the property yet, but you will have ownership prior to closing. (they should already understand this, but it's always best to cover your bases)

Statutes i was able to locate (i'm no legal expert):

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 818
SALE OF MORTGAGED PERSONAL PROPERTY; SIMILAR OFFENSES

View Entire Chapter

818.05 Sale, concealment, or disposal of property held under contract or conditional sale; penalty.—(1) No person who is in possession of any personal property under and by virtue of any contract or conditional sale or otherwise where the title to said personal property does not vest in the possessor, shall sell, conceal or dispose of such personal property without first having the written consent of the person then having or retaining the bona fide title to such personal property so to sell, dispose of, or conceal the same.(2) Any person who shall violate the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.History.—ss. 1, 2, ch. 7860, 1919; CGL 7230, 7321; s. 891, ch. 71-136.

475.42 Violations and penalties.—(1) VIOLATIONS.—(a) A
person may not operate as a broker or sales associate without being the
holder of a valid and current active license therefor. Any person who
violates this paragraph commits a felony of the third degree, punishable
as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, or, if a corporation, as provided in s. 775.083.

Looks like the biggest beef is operating as an agent (taking commission, etc.). however, aren't most wholesalers taking a fee for the contract itself (assignment) and not for their services?

Definition of who is considered a broker in FL: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/sta...

475.01 Definitions.—(1) As used in this part:(a) “Broker”
means a person who, for another, and for a compensation or valuable
consideration directly or indirectly paid or promised, expressly or
impliedly, or with an intent to collect or receive a compensation or
valuable consideration therefor, appraises, auctions, sells, exchanges,
buys, rents, or offers, attempts or agrees to appraise, auction, or
negotiate the sale, exchange, purchase, or rental of business
enterprises or business opportunities or any real property or any
interest in or concerning the same, including mineral rights or leases,
or who advertises or holds out to the public by any oral or printed
solicitation or representation that she or he is engaged in the business
of appraising, auctioning, buying, selling, exchanging, leasing, or
renting business enterprises or business opportunities or real property
of others or interests therein, including mineral rights, or who takes
any part in the procuring of sellers, purchasers, lessors, or lessees of
business enterprises or business opportunities or the real property of
another, or leases, or interest therein, including mineral rights, or
who directs or assists in the procuring of prospects or in the
negotiation or closing of any transaction which does, or is calculated
to, result in a sale, exchange, or leasing thereof, and who receives,
expects, or is promised any compensation or valuable consideration,
directly or indirectly therefor; and all persons who advertise rental
property information or lists. A broker renders a professional service
and is a professional within the meaning of s. 95.11(4)(a).
Where the term “appraise” or “appraising” appears in the definition of
the term “broker,” it specifically excludes those appraisal services
which must be performed only by a state-licensed or state-certified
appraiser, and those appraisal services which may be performed by a
registered trainee appraiser as defined in part II. The term “broker”
also includes any person who is a general partner, officer, or director
of a partnership or corporation which acts as a broker. The term
“broker” also includes any person or entity who undertakes to list or
sell one or more timeshare periods per year in one or more timeshare
plans on behalf of any number of persons, except as provided in ss. 475.011 and 721.20.

(3) Wherever
the word “operate” or “operating” as a broker, broker associate, or
sales associate appears in this chapter; in any order, rule, or
regulation of the commission; in any pleading, indictment, or
information under this chapter; in any court action or proceeding; or in
any order or judgment of a court, it shall be deemed to mean the
commission of one or more acts described in this chapter as constituting
or defining a broker, broker associate, or sales associate, not
including, however, any of the exceptions stated therein. A single such
act is sufficient to bring a person within the meaning of this chapter,
and each act, if prohibited herein, constitutes a separate offense.

They did pretty good on the language, but this "for another" talked about above is an interesting concept that I need more time to research.

You are tying to see what you want to see.

1) did you go to law school? If not, why are you rendering potentially dangerous legal advice to others? Why don't you not go to medical school instead and tell people about how vaccines are dangerous?

2) You seem to stuck on the term "for another." YOU DON'T OWN THE PROPERTY SO YOU ARE NOT DOING IT FOR YOURSELF. GET IT???? If you sack up and actually buy it and put it in your name (or get your license the way that someone without a criminal record can easily do, and follow the laws on brokering real estate), they you don't have to worry about doing something that will force you to have to answer "yes" to every job application or rental application that asks "have you ever been convicted of a felony."

dang, triggered much? i've clearly stated i was no legal expert in that post (eye-roll). simply trying to understand what the actual law states, instead of going by hearsay from local posters.

Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes

6y

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Victor S. you are trying to make it sound like the laws are unclear. In reality you are just trying to exploit some loophole, but even if you try to stretch interpretation, that doesn't mean any judge is going to agree with it.

One thing to clarify is that every state has different laws, so what is allowed in one place may not be allowed in another.

There is a two major issues that wholesalers can run into:

1. Marketing a property without a license and without ownership.

2. Selling a property and collecting a fee without ownership.

You mention a double closing (simultaneous closing). This is when three parties are involved. Seller, intermediary and buyer. You execute paperwork so that the intermediary becomes the owner and then execute paperwork so that the buyer (third person) becomes the owner. This doesn't require any money for the intermediary, because the buyers funds go to the seller. People argue that this type of transaction gets around issue 2, because the intermediary is the owner right before the final buyer takes possession. Others argue they since they pay no money, but take a fee, that this is simply an attempt to skirt the law. Regardless, in a simultaneous closing, you are in violation of issue 1. It is impossible to setup a closing with a seller and buyer unless you have marketed to the buyer before you owned the property. That is just a fact. The buyer is identified before you own the property, therefore you marketed it before you owned it.

Some wholesalers buy and hold properties for a few days, then resell. In that situation they take ownership and there is time to market the property. I think that would be considered legal in every state, provided they are not marketing before they own it.

The rub in many states is that they consider an "assignment fee" an agent fee or commission. The logic is that the contract and the property are inseparable. It is hard to argue you are selling just a contract, when you are showing the property to the buyer.

There is "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law". Spirit of the law is actual intent. Letter of the law is the wording. Same theory applies in contract law with a lease. I may not specially state you cannot pour concrete down the drain. You may argue you had no knowledge it would cause damage, therefore you are not liable under a damage clause. The judge will rule that the spirit of the clause is anything that is foreseeable to cause damage. You can argue the concrete wasn't solid when you poured it, but that is a red herring argument. You can try to hang your hat on on creating your own definition of "for another" of "for a fee", but ultimately the spirit of the law is very clear.

If you are confused about your state law, call the real estate commission or the attorney general. Explain what you are doing and get their position. If you are unwilling to do this, that should answer your question.

The very last sentence...

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @Shane H.:

Eh... You might win in court, but you might not. The OP has openly admitted to running multiple showings of the property. To me that's going to be tough to say you didn't market the property for another. The second he scheduled a showing with another individual I believe he clearly stepped into agent territory.

This essentially creates a scenario where the fiduciary duty of the "middleman" is to himself. Now on the end buyers side this may not be a big deal, presumably they're an investor who should know enough. The seller though is an innocent party who agreed to sell their property to person a. Now their tenant is being disturbed to parade through persons b, c, d, e, f, g.

Those promoting wholesaling are stretching. Are their cases where selling the contract could be legal? Possibly. I believe the test is ability and intent.

Think investor whos last project runs too long. Fellow investor calls and says "hey I don't have anything to flip right now have any leads?"

first investor "I had one on the back burner that I haven't closed on, and this project ran too long. I'll sell you my interest for $1000."

In this scenario, the guy legitimately signed the contract for himself. has the funds to follow through, but passes it on to his ability he has ability and intent when he signs.

Hes not parading buyers through...

this MIGHT pass the test of a legitimate contract wholesale. If investigated he could show that he has bought in the past, has the money, this particular contract was sold to allow him to finish his last project. Or maybe to pursue a better one that came along. An individual who has never invested in real estate, has no money, and a single contract they're assigning would be tough to prove you had the ability or intent to keep it.

That's why my initial post asked about double-closing (albeit in a joking manner). You are intending to purchase and then (within 24 hours or less) sell the property to another party.

WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Victor S. you are trying to make it sound like the laws are unclear. In reality you are just trying to exploit some loophole, but even if you try to stretch interpretation, that doesn't mean any judge is going to agree with it.

One thing to clarify is that every state has different laws, so what is allowed in one place may not be allowed in another.

There is a two major issues that wholesalers can run into:

1. Marketing a property without a license and without ownership.

2. Selling a property and collecting a fee without ownership.

You mention a double closing (simultaneous closing). This is when three parties are involved. Seller, intermediary and buyer. You execute paperwork so that the intermediary becomes the owner and then execute paperwork so that the buyer (third person) becomes the owner. This doesn't require any money for the intermediary, because the buyers funds go to the seller. People argue that this type of transaction gets around issue 2, because the intermediary is the owner right before the final buyer takes possession. Others argue they since they pay no money, but take a fee, that this is simply an attempt to skirt the law. Regardless, in a simultaneous closing, you are in violation of issue 1. It is impossible to setup a closing with a seller and buyer unless you have marketed to the buyer before you owned the property. That is just a fact. The buyer is identified before you own the property, therefore you marketed it before you owned it.

Some wholesalers buy and hold properties for a few days, then resell. In that situation they take ownership and there is time to market the property. I think that would be considered legal in every state, provided they are not marketing before they own it.

The rub in many states is that they consider an "assignment fee" an agent fee or commission. The logic is that the contract and the property are inseparable. It is hard to argue you are selling just a contract, when you are showing the property to the buyer.

There is "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law". Spirit of the law is actual intent. Letter of the law is the wording. Same theory applies in contract law with a lease. I may not specially state you cannot pour concrete down the drain. You may argue you had no knowledge it would cause damage, therefore you are not liable under a damage clause. The judge will rule that the spirit of the clause is anything that is foreseeable to cause damage. You can argue the concrete wasn't solid when you poured it, but that is a red herring argument. You can try to hang your hat on on creating your own definition of "for another" of "for a fee", but ultimately the spirit of the law is very clear.

If you are confused about your state law, call the real estate commission or the attorney general. Explain what you are doing and get their position. If you are unwilling to do this, that should answer your question.

I'm not "trying" to do anything, so not sure why you're putting words in my mouth. I've clearly explained my intent above. Was simply trying to find actual letter of the law to go by, instead of reading post after post of John's, expressing how illegal this practice is. I also specifically referenced FL's statutes above (which, it appears, you haven't bothered looking at).

As far as double-closing and funding is concerned, I'm not sure why you're saying that party B is using party C's money to pay party A? Party B can get bridge financing in place for a short period of time.

2 Reply

Justin Abdilla

Attorney · Chicagoland · Member since 2019 · 103 posts · 90 votes

6y

What an amazing breakdown of this. This is good enough to be a legal article. Great job!

Isaac S.

Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes

6y

Ahhh, yes, checking back in on this thread and it continues to deliver drama and excitement, accusations, and evasion...thanks again for the entertainment while I duck my daily duties/responsibilities for 10 min.

I will say, that as an outside observer that has no experience with wholesalers and some experience with realtors....Realtors, if you would hussle to get clients as much as these wholesalers, you would not have time to post to these threads, an probably be very successful! AND Wholesalers, if you would just get your stuff together and get licensed, it seems like you would easily out hussle most of these retail realtors and put them out of business.

Seems like excuses from both sides, except for the few voices of reason encouraging the wholesalers to get it together and stop trying to play games with finding loopholes that appear to make you(wholesaler) seem quite delusional.

Best of luck and much wealth and prosperity to all!

7 Reply

George Munoz

Real Estate Agent · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2018 · 360 posts · 213 votes

6y

@John Thedford Why are you threatening @Jacob Kline? If he has a legal binding contract to purchase with the seller and known buying partners that he can choose what's the problem? He is not doing anything wrong, You don't need a license to wholesale in Florida. ( Obviously, there are rules and proper way to do it) . though I don't see the need for threating. Jacob is trying to do the best he can and asking for advice, ( and trying to make it, like anybody here in this platform at some point) .

As far as your question @Jacob Kline Be honest with Seller, I will suggest not to demand her to vacate the property, because you don't have any legal rights to do that ( just after closing) ( Or if your buyers really trust you and you have a good amount of pictures showing all repairs try to see if they might buy sight unseen. Or send cancelation and move on to the next one. cos every time you spend focusing on this one, you are missing other opportunities.

3 Reply

John Thedford

Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @George Munoz:

@John Thedford Why are you threatening @Jacob Kline? If he has a legal binding contract to purchase with the seller and known buying partners that he can choose what's the problem? He is not doing anything wrong, You don't need a license to wholesale in Florida. ( Obviously, there are rules and proper way to do it) . though I don't see the need for threating. Jacob is trying to do the best he can and asking for advice, ( and trying to make it, like anybody here in this platform at some point) .

As far as your question @Jacob Kline Be honest with Seller, I will suggest not to demand her to vacate the property, because you don't have any legal rights to do that ( just after closing) ( Or if your buyers really trust you and you have a good amount of pictures showing all repairs try to see if they might buy sight unseen. Or send cancelation and move on to the next one. cos every time you spend focusing on this one, you are missing other opportunities.

Apparently you don't know the laws regardless of your licensing. He is brokering without a license. The fact I turn them in is not a threat.

Ralph R.

Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes

6y

@Dan Heuschele. Unfortunately what you believe about what makes a tenant paying rent or not paying rent doesn’t count. The lady lives in the house you can’t just barge in on her.

Dan H.Pro Member

Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes

6y

Originally posted by @Ralph R.:

@Dan Heuschele. Unfortunately what you believe about what makes a tenant paying rent or not paying rent doesn’t count. The lady lives in the house you can’t just barge in on her.

I live in a tenant friendly state; I suspect in the top 5 most tenant friendly states. I have had the police come and tell a guest (brother of the tenant) they had to leave or would be arrested for trespass. I have also had a guest (significant other of one of the tenants) leave with the threat of calling the police.

Of course in both cases I was the owner and the guest was not paying rent, was not on the lease, and was a guest of the actual tenants. Our lease limits how long guests can stay, but the brother of the tenant was long over that limit and we stupidly did not enforce that lease restriction (lesson learned).

I realize this is not the exact same circumstance for a few reasons including the OP is not the owner, the OP does not know if the daughter is paying rent, the OP does not know what the lease states, there is no other known tenant, etc.

My point, however, is just because someone is living somewhere does not automatically make them more than a guest.