Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?

118 Replies

Originally posted by @Cody Barna :

@Mark Przybysz What kind of condition are the properties typically in?

Condition doesn't seem to matter since there are just so many wholesalers who all have different bright ideas. I have beautiful, occupied properties, I have vacant crappy ones, I have SFH and 2-4 unit, I have raw land, they go after EVERYTHING. NONSTOP. Constant texts, constant calls. I dont mind the postcards or letters since I am already processing inbound mail but the interruptions from SMS and calls as someone who uses their phone for work drives me crazy.

And its all illegal, you can go after them for TCPA violations if they do it more than once.  Even leaving ringless voicemails counts!  Scum of the industry. 

The only thing I have figured out that works is to change ALL of your phone numbers with banks, utility companies, (especially utility companies), credit card providers, etc to a voicemail-only line. The skip tracers get the numbers from utility companies almost immediately. I gave the AEP (power company) and the Columbus Division of Water a new voicemail-only number when setting up new service at a new project house in July, and the wholesaler calls to that number started within days. 

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader :
Originally posted by @Cody Barna:

@Mark Przybysz What kind of condition are the properties typically in?

Condition doesn't seem to matter since there are just so many wholesalers who all have different bright ideas. I have beautiful, occupied properties, I have vacant crappy ones, I have SFH and 2-4 unit, I have raw land, they go after EVERYTHING. NONSTOP. Constant texts, constant calls. I dont mind the postcards or letters since I am already processing inbound mail but the interruptions from SMS and calls as someone who uses their phone for work drives me crazy.

And its all illegal, you can go after them for TCPA violations if they do it more than once.  Even leaving ringless voicemails counts!  Scum of the industry. 

The only thing I have figured out that works is to change ALL of your phone numbers with banks, utility companies, (especially utility companies), credit card providers, etc to a voicemail-only line. The skip tracers get the numbers from utility companies almost immediately. I gave the AEP (power company) and the Columbus Division of Water a new voicemail-only number when setting up new service at a new project house in July, and the wholesaler calls to that number started within days. 


Wholesalers looking at Columbus, Ohio can get our information from the Franklin County Auditor website. Have it in an LLC? - They can search who owns the LLC and get our information.

The only way to stop it is to sell all of your real estate.

This brings me to my next question...

Originally posted by @Remington Lyman :
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @Cody Barna:

@Mark Przybysz What kind of condition are the properties typically in?

Condition doesn't seem to matter since there are just so many wholesalers who all have different bright ideas. I have beautiful, occupied properties, I have vacant crappy ones, I have SFH and 2-4 unit, I have raw land, they go after EVERYTHING. NONSTOP. Constant texts, constant calls. I dont mind the postcards or letters since I am already processing inbound mail but the interruptions from SMS and calls as someone who uses their phone for work drives me crazy.

And its all illegal, you can go after them for TCPA violations if they do it more than once.  Even leaving ringless voicemails counts!  Scum of the industry. 

The only thing I have figured out that works is to change ALL of your phone numbers with banks, utility companies, (especially utility companies), credit card providers, etc to a voicemail-only line. The skip tracers get the numbers from utility companies almost immediately. I gave the AEP (power company) and the Columbus Division of Water a new voicemail-only number when setting up new service at a new project house in July, and the wholesaler calls to that number started within days. 

Wholesalers looking at Columbus, Ohio can get our information from the Franklin County Auditor website. Have it in an LLC? - They can search who owns the LLC and get our information.

The only way to stop it is to sell all of your real estate.

This brings me to my next question...

I actually called my accountant the other day asking about selling (not related to wholesaler harassment). One of the things not often mentioned about BRRRR is that its really tricky to upgrade to the "next step up" -- eg, sell a portfolio of small properties and not get absolutely bent over on the taxes (and "depreciation recapture" which I never knew about until a few days ago) ... I'd have to sell everything at once and then 1099 all the proceeds into (hopefully) one big thing, but everything feels so hyperinflated right now.

Sighhhh I have been saying this for YEARS.

FROG DMM, FROG list FROG them ALL.

It friggin doesn't work. And STOP for a sec. Think about this

You all are INVESTORS, you GET DMM you know how it works you know it is real you know why you are being send all these damn mailers because you are in this space and it STILL is annoying. Now can you imagine a SELLER?!?!?

For them it is WAY worse! They have No clue what the frog is wrong with you, sending poor innocent Ms Betty a mailer.

But does BP listen? Nope, friggin stubborn! The ONLY people that say DMM is amazing own a friggin list or mailing company or are somehow invested in it!

In yoh FACE DMM business owners! Told you so!

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader :
Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @Cody Barna:

@Mark Przybysz What kind of condition are the properties typically in?

Condition doesn't seem to matter since there are just so many wholesalers who all have different bright ideas. I have beautiful, occupied properties, I have vacant crappy ones, I have SFH and 2-4 unit, I have raw land, they go after EVERYTHING. NONSTOP. Constant texts, constant calls. I dont mind the postcards or letters since I am already processing inbound mail but the interruptions from SMS and calls as someone who uses their phone for work drives me crazy.

And its all illegal, you can go after them for TCPA violations if they do it more than once.  Even leaving ringless voicemails counts!  Scum of the industry. 

The only thing I have figured out that works is to change ALL of your phone numbers with banks, utility companies, (especially utility companies), credit card providers, etc to a voicemail-only line. The skip tracers get the numbers from utility companies almost immediately. I gave the AEP (power company) and the Columbus Division of Water a new voicemail-only number when setting up new service at a new project house in July, and the wholesaler calls to that number started within days. 

Wholesalers looking at Columbus, Ohio can get our information from the Franklin County Auditor website. Have it in an LLC? - They can search who owns the LLC and get our information.

The only way to stop it is to sell all of your real estate.

This brings me to my next question...

I actually called my accountant the other day asking about selling (not related to wholesaler harassment). One of the things not often mentioned about BRRRR is that its really tricky to upgrade to the "next step up" -- eg, sell a portfolio of small properties and not get absolutely bent over on the taxes (and "depreciation recapture" which I never knew about until a few days ago) ... I'd have to sell everything at once and then 1099 all the proceeds into (hopefully) one big thing, but everything feels so hyperinflated right now.

Yup the depreciation recapture light bulb went off.. when you have a gaggle of small equity properties.. its nearly impossible to sell them in a package at least for what you want so you end up one off selling them.. the amount of equity you have is not worth the hassle of the 1031 nor do you have enough capital in one off sales to buy much of anything else. so you end up paying the tax and there goes all your cash flow :(

 

Originally posted by @Nicky Reader :
Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
Originally posted by @Nicky Reader:
Originally posted by @Cody Barna:

@Mark Przybysz What kind of condition are the properties typically in?

Condition doesn't seem to matter since there are just so many wholesalers who all have different bright ideas. I have beautiful, occupied properties, I have vacant crappy ones, I have SFH and 2-4 unit, I have raw land, they go after EVERYTHING. NONSTOP. Constant texts, constant calls. I dont mind the postcards or letters since I am already processing inbound mail but the interruptions from SMS and calls as someone who uses their phone for work drives me crazy.

And its all illegal, you can go after them for TCPA violations if they do it more than once.  Even leaving ringless voicemails counts!  Scum of the industry. 

The only thing I have figured out that works is to change ALL of your phone numbers with banks, utility companies, (especially utility companies), credit card providers, etc to a voicemail-only line. The skip tracers get the numbers from utility companies almost immediately. I gave the AEP (power company) and the Columbus Division of Water a new voicemail-only number when setting up new service at a new project house in July, and the wholesaler calls to that number started within days. 

Wholesalers looking at Columbus, Ohio can get our information from the Franklin County Auditor website. Have it in an LLC? - They can search who owns the LLC and get our information.

The only way to stop it is to sell all of your real estate.

This brings me to my next question...

I actually called my accountant the other day asking about selling (not related to wholesaler harassment). One of the things not often mentioned about BRRRR is that its really tricky to upgrade to the "next step up" -- eg, sell a portfolio of small properties and not get absolutely bent over on the taxes (and "depreciation recapture" which I never knew about until a few days ago) ... I'd have to sell everything at once and then 1099 all the proceeds into (hopefully) one big thing, but everything feels so hyperinflated right now.

 Why don't you just list everything at once (say 10 single families in Linden)? Then if you sell 3 take it and 1031 into something bigger (a 4 unit in OTE). You will still have less roofs. Just do that a few times and now you have 3 quads. Then sell the 3 quads all at once and buy an apartment building.

Idk just a thought

@Mark Przybysz

I average getting 3-5 phone calls per day from wholesalers, 7 days a week. And around 2-3 texts per day, every day. They are unbelievably annoying. I have zero interest in working with a wholesaler. If I'm ever bored, when I get a text from one I'll play with them and tell them I'm interested in an offer. It's amazing how after I tell them I'm interested in an offer, I never hear back from them. Not a peep.

@Remington Lyman

That’s great in theory, but in real world application, near impossible to time your sale and have an actual good 4plex deal to buy that makes sense pop up within the allotted timeframe, and if you’re lucky enough, hard to repeat 2 more times

Yea, it gets tiring getting the same text/call a couple times a day.  If I'm bored, I just say, you probably can't afford it or send me your financials and I'll look them over.  

"Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?"

Not at all, I see them as an opportunity.

1) I call and say I'm a buyer, put me on your list.

2) I find the owners they've exploited and under-priced

3) I call the owner and say, here's the FMV and comp sales of your property and you're losing at least 20% you go with this offer. I then tell them that the guy that wrote is NOT going to be the buyer and he's given you $0.01 as earnest money.

4) I tell them since you don't have a listing, think about it.

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

 when you have a gaggle of small equity properties.. its nearly impossible to sell them in a package at least for what you want so you end up one off selling them.. the amount of equity you have is not worth the hassle of the 1031 nor do you have enough capital in one off sales to buy much of anything else. so you end up paying the tax and there goes all your cash flow :(

Interesting there's a guy here with about 40 SFRs he's been trying to sell as a package for a while in Portland.  All are pretty much trash.

 

 

Originally posted by @Steve Morris :
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

 when you have a gaggle of small equity properties.. its nearly impossible to sell them in a package at least for what you want so you end up one off selling them.. the amount of equity you have is not worth the hassle of the 1031 nor do you have enough capital in one off sales to buy much of anything else. so you end up paying the tax and there goes all your cash flow :(

Interesting there's a guy here with about 40 SFRs he's been trying to sell as a package for a while in Portland.  All are pretty much trash.

 

especially in pdx were price points are where they are at.. 40 sfrs have to be worth 8 mil at a minimum and up from there.

that same 8 mil buyer in my mind is going to find a MF  or commercial options as opposed to a bunch of SFRs.. UNLESS there is some big upside to break them up and retail them to homeowners.  is my thought.  And in areas back east were homes in many rental neighborhoods are NEVER sold to home owners or nearly never.

 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

especially in pdx were price points are where they are at.. 40 sfrs have to be worth 8 mil at a minimum and up from there.

that same 8 mil buyer in my mind is going to find a MF  or commercial options as opposed to a bunch of SFRs.. UNLESS there is some big upside to break them up and retail them to homeowners.  is my thought.  

Well, I think the portfolio is still up on LoopNet if you want to look it up.  My sense is either the price, grade of prop or cost of rehab, has kept most large buyers away.  I don't know the metrics of good/bad flips, but gotta think outside of nuisance value or triggering 40 1031s with different time windows, the seller'd get more out of piece-mealing them.

If I had $8M, I think i'd get better bang on a larger MF project OUTSIDE OF PORTLAND PROPER.  God, I'd love to find something in Yamhill county like that.

 

 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Steve Morris:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

 when you have a gaggle of small equity properties.. its nearly impossible to sell them in a package at least for what you want so you end up one off selling them.. the amount of equity you have is not worth the hassle of the 1031 nor do you have enough capital in one off sales to buy much of anything else. so you end up paying the tax and there goes all your cash flow :(

Interesting there's a guy here with about 40 SFRs he's been trying to sell as a package for a while in Portland.  All are pretty much trash.

 

especially in pdx were price points are where they are at.. 40 sfrs have to be worth 8 mil at a minimum and up from there.

that same 8 mil buyer in my mind is going to find a MF  or commercial options as opposed to a bunch of SFRs.. UNLESS there is some big upside to break them up and retail them to homeowners.  is my thought.  And in areas back east were homes in many rental neighborhoods are NEVER sold to home owners or nearly never.

It's still up on LoopNet I think, but larger buyres probably don't like the rehab mgmt, locations or grade (C- at best) of them.

Outside of triggering 40 1031s at different times, I'd think he'd make more piecemealing them.

For $8M, you'd get more bang out of MF OUTSIDE OF PORTLAND PROPER,  I'd love to find something like that in Yamhill county.

 

 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Steve Morris:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

 when you have a gaggle of small equity properties.. its nearly impossible to sell them in a package at least for what you want so you end up one off selling them.. the amount of equity you have is not worth the hassle of the 1031 nor do you have enough capital in one off sales to buy much of anything else. so you end up paying the tax and there goes all your cash flow :(

Interesting there's a guy here with about 40 SFRs he's been trying to sell as a package for a while in Portland.  All are pretty much trash.

 

especially in pdx were price points are where they are at.. 40 sfrs have to be worth 8 mil at a minimum and up from there.

that same 8 mil buyer in my mind is going to find a MF  or commercial options as opposed to a bunch of SFRs.. UNLESS there is some big upside to break them up and retail them to homeowners.  is my thought.  And in areas back east were homes in many rental neighborhoods are NEVER sold to home owners or nearly never.


It's still up on LoopNet I think, but larger buyres probably don't like the rehab mgmt, locations or grade (C- at best) of them.

Outside of triggering 40 1031s at different times, I'd think he'd make more piecemealing them.

For $8M, you'd get more bang out of MF OUTSIDE OF PORTLAND PROPER, I'd love to find something like that in Yamhill county.

 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Steve Morris:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

 when you have a gaggle of small equity properties.. its nearly impossible to sell them in a package at least for what you want so you end up one off selling them.. the amount of equity you have is not worth the hassle of the 1031 nor do you have enough capital in one off sales to buy much of anything else. so you end up paying the tax and there goes all your cash flow :(

Interesting there's a guy here with about 40 SFRs he's been trying to sell as a package for a while in Portland.  All are pretty much trash.

 

especially in pdx were price points are where they are at.. 40 sfrs have to be worth 8 mil at a minimum and up from there.

that same 8 mil buyer in my mind is going to find a MF  or commercial options as opposed to a bunch of SFRs.. UNLESS there is some big upside to break them up and retail them to homeowners.  is my thought.  And in areas back east were homes in many rental neighborhoods are NEVER sold to home owners or nearly never.


It's still up on LoopNet I think, but larger buyers probably don't like the rehab mgmt, locations or grade (C- at best) of them.

Outside of triggering 40 1031s at different times, I'd think he'd make more piecemealing them.

For $8M, you'd get more bang out of MF OUTSIDE OF PORTLAND PROPER, I'd love to find something like that in Yamhill county.

 

Originally posted by @Steve Morris :

"Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?"

Not at all, I see them as an opportunity.

1) I call and say I'm a buyer, put me on your list.

2) I find the owners they've exploited and under-priced

3) I call the owner and say, here's the FMV and comp sales of your property and you're losing at least 20% you go with this offer. I then tell them that the guy that wrote is NOT going to be the buyer and he's given you $0.01 as earnest money.

4) I tell them since you don't have a listing, think about it.

#1. Your "brilliant scheme" isn't new. Wholesalers try and do this to each other all the time. It's a surefire way to get blackballed by everyone in the area to never work with you. 

#2. Based off your "scheme" I'm guessing you've never talked to many offmarket sellers before that sold for a discount. 

Most aren't dumb. 

They know what a realtor is...they know that's what would get them the most money. 

...they just don't care! They want the easy button. 

Realtors on the other hand strut through your house, tell you "Oh, you need to update the kitchen, and paint, and etc. etc. etc." 

These people don't want that. 

They don't want their neighbors seeing their house in bad condition...

They don't want strangers going through and judging them on the clutter...

They also don't want to deal with picky retail buyers who want an HGTV house. 

They just want their money and to be done with it. 

=-====

(no, I'm not a wholesaler...but I do market for offmarket deals to buy/hold or flip).

 

I'm betting most of the people that complain about wholesaler messages also are ON wholesaler mailing lists trying to pick up deals. 

It's like saying you love pizza but don't want to see how it is made.

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra :
Originally posted by @Steve Morris:

"Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?"

Not at all, I see them as an opportunity.

1) I call and say I'm a buyer, put me on your list.

2) I find the owners they've exploited and under-priced

3) I call the owner and say, here's the FMV and comp sales of your property and you're losing at least 20% you go with this offer. I then tell them that the guy that wrote is NOT going to be the buyer and he's given you $0.01 as earnest money.

4) I tell them since you don't have a listing, think about it.

#1. Your "brilliant scheme" isn't new. Wholesalers try and do this to each other all the time. It's a surefire way to get blackballed by everyone in the area to never work with you. 

#2. Based off your "scheme" I'm guessing you've never talked to many offmarket sellers before that sold for a discount. 

Most aren't dumb. 

They know what a realtor is...they know that's what would get them the most money. 

...they just don't care! They want the easy button. 

Realtors on the other hand strut through your house, tell you "Oh, you need to update the kitchen, and paint, and etc. etc. etc." 

These people don't want that. 

They don't want their neighbors seeing their house in bad condition...

They don't want strangers going through and judging them on the clutter...

They also don't want to deal with picky retail buyers who want an HGTV house. 

They just want their money and to be done with it. 

=-====

(no, I'm not a wholesaler...but I do market for offmarket deals to buy/hold or flip).

 

I'm betting most of the people that complain about wholesaler messages also are ON wholesaler mailing lists trying to pick up deals. 

It's like saying you love pizza but don't want to see how it is made.

to carry this conversation forward.. I do want to offer that..  wholesalers parade all sorts of buyers through the houses.. no investor i know is going to buy a fixer unless they can see it and march their contractor through it.. so that excuse the wholesale community uses does not track.   wholesale deals go down just like any regular deal.. buyer does some sort of walk through inspection etc..  I guess the only difference is there usually is not a sign in the yard for sale..

Although a lot of wholesalers these days in Oregon or let me say a few.. are now trying to re market listed properties.. so there is a sign in the yard.. and then send out blast e mails with hours for walk through s  Like this one i got this morning.

Investors,

This is just a reminder for our walk through today at the property in Portland, Oregon from 1:30-3:00 pm. Please send me an email response or text to give you the address and so I know you are coming!

Here are the numbers again:

Purchase Price: $235k

Rehab/Repairs: $39.5k

ARV: $354,817

PROFIT POTENTIAL: +$80K

I look forward to seeing you!

I wont comment on the quality of the deal.. but if it was betting I would say.. the rehab is more ARV is less.. there is no figure for cost of resale taxs insurance and holding costs especially if its private or hard money. that 80k POTENTIAL gets down to next to nothing pretty quick.

 

To those who are tired of the hassle. What are your preferred ways to reduce the amount of volume? 
Based on responses so far, changing a phone number to google voice might be the winner.

I've tried having them add me to buyer list, but then I find myself in a catch-22 described by @joe cassandra. I no longer ask to be on the buyer list, it doesn't help and I do not want to be on any list with wholesalers.
I've tried about 100 different approaches to answering calls and texts.
They rarely provide contact info, almost always call from some kind of bogus number showing a local(ish) area code, and then they ask me about 100 questions about my property which they clearly haven't researched.
The best I've come up with is saying, "No thanks, and please take me off your contact list." But the volume keeps coming, it's not like I can track who's calling and texting since they use numbers that aren't their own.

Also, I have a day job. While I'd love to make their life harder, I'd rather spend my day and time doing proactive things that add positivity to this crazy world we're living in. Spending my free time sending negative energy their way is a waste for more than one group.

I'd really just like to see wholesalers use some danm common sense instead of just doing what their mentor told them works. "One out of a million huh, so your saying there's a chance!" should be their motto.

@Troy Albers @Jerryll Noorden @Nicky Reader @Bruce Runn - So much smh from all the calls. I agree with each one of you and will try to work in some of your procedures in the next series of calls and texts.

Sometimes I say - I want more than you want to pay. I've been considering asking them if they'll pay say $50,000 (something way under value), then every time they send me a contract for that amount, be like, eh, I've changed my mind, how about $60,000 and keep moving the price up.

My current main goal is to waste as much of their time is possible, while limiting the amount of time I spend on it. I'm working on systems to get them to do as much work as possible, while I wait for them to contact me again, so I can them put them back to work.