I'm from upstate NY (Saratoga area) and not completely new to REI. I have 2 rental properties with a total of 4 units that are cashflowing nicely and I "flipped" a property. The property that I flipped was a HUD foreclosure that I completely renovated but decided to keep and live in instead of selling it. Now I'm looking for my next deal and after listening to pod casts and reading on BP it seems that the greatest deals come from off market properties.
However all the properties
that I've done have been on market deals. I set up a website through
Carrot with SEO that ranks on the 1st page of google about a year ago
but I've only received 1 lead which didn't work out. There's also at
least 2 other investors in my area using Carrot and 1 is a biggest
investor in the area. I'm wondering what you all are doing to find off
market leads and which strategies work best and are the most cost
effective...or should I continue to find on market deals??
Thanks for your time and thoughts!!
To find off market deals you can either find a local wholesaler in your area, send mailers to distressed property owners (probate, eviction records, distressed properties while driving for dollars, and absentee owners). With this method you would be sending out postcards or “yellow letters” to the niche of your choice or you could also choose to cold call them.
Anson Young has a great book on this called “finding and funding great deals”.
Hope this helps
@Kyle Chadwick the possibilities are almost limitless. Some of this is easiest accomplished if you get your real estate brokerage license or if you make really good friends with a local real estate agent who can connect you with their MLS access... to get off-market properties.
-Old expired listings (MLS) - These are people who put their hands up to sell in the past and didn't for whatever reason. The recent expireds will be tougher as every real estate agent is calling them.
-FSBO (For Sale By Owner) - These guys can be a challenge to work with sometimes and there can be opportunities here.
-Door knocking - Sending letters is a high-volume low-return activity. Door knocking is my number one favorite way to meet people, put a face to my name, and build rapport. Take a purchase agreement with you and ask them what their number is. You'll start some conversations and build your pipeline quick here.
-ReMine (License) - If you make friends with a realtor or get your license, you can access this system. It uses public record data on time in home, date of last refi, loan balance, and some AI to build a heat map on probability of move. This will help you target your door knocks or letters.
-Network - Divorce attorneys, estate attorneys, bankers, and more can help you find houses that need to sell.
Just a few faves!
@Cody Neumann thanks for the tips!!
Unfortunately wholesalers seem to be over priced and leave little to no room to make money.
I've considered doing the direct mail postcards or letters. What source do you recommend to get lists for properties?? Also, what company do you recommend for purchasing the postcards?? What have your numbers looked like for using this method??
I haven't heard of that book but I'll definitely check out!!
@Adam Lendi Thanks for the tips!!
Old listings seems like it would be difficult. If they were listed and didn't sell then it's most likely that they're over priced so getting them to accept below market might be a stretch.
FSBO might be a good idea especially coupled with the door knocking you mentioned.
Networking with these people is a great idea. And networking is definitely something I'm trying to work on (especially hard with Covid going on).
Hey @Kyle Chadwick - have you tried driving for dollars and looking for distressed properties that way? I'm from the area as well (currently living in Florida) and doing a direct mail campaign for distressed sellers in the area. Would love to connect and talk some more.
@Nicholas Monroe I would love to connect and pick your brain on this. DM me and we can find a time that works.
Adam, I am just curious about what you mean by connecting to MLS for off market properties? I am an investor with a couple of rental properties and an agent. My husband and I want to start flipping and are trying to find off market properties. I have access to MLS but there are no off market properties listed there that I am aware of. Also, I may be wrong but it seems that most ethical agents would encourage sellers to list on MLS and not be telling investors about a property before it goes on the market. I'm sure this happens all the time but it seems questionable.
Whats going on guys,
Let me chime in and give you my .02 cents.
Will you find off market deal on the MLS? Absolutely not, why? because the MLS is the definition of ON market deals. In order to land the best off market deals you will have to use the exact same methods that a wholesaler uses (if you are a flipper/buy and hold investor you simply just close on the asset instead of assigning it)
Nothing and I mean NOTHING will ever beat calling a homeowner directly. Keep in mind this is the cheapest form on entry since all other marketing methods are pricey.
Action steps: Buy a list (wholesalingdata.com comes with addresses and phone numbers, Listsource is great too but you will have to skip trace it) Make sure the property has enough equity or else you will be wasting money/time.
Make calls and find motivated sellers - keep in mind this is a lot of work and you may delegate this, however I would still recommend you do this to learn the ropes before hiring someone.
Best of luck.
Thanks Joe, that was very helpful!
Since you already have a website that ranks on the 1st page of google, I'd spend time getting it to #1. You'll get way more free leads that way and they'll be more motivated than the other marketing channels. Organic search leads are looking for YOU, not the other way around.
Is Carrot the website many wholesalers use? (And why all their websites and sign up pages look the same)
@Kyle Chadwick it really depends on your market, which you haven't really defined what that is.
Each market is different. Even in Phoenix that is at an insance seller's market since about mid-2020, I found an ON-MARKET deal on MLS searching for diamonds in the rough. We were hoping to rehab it and make it a good lease option or seller financing deal, but we got such a ridiculous offer we took it (and the HOA was fighting us on turning it into a rental.)
So, in summation it really depends. On or off market, sure pursue them all. If you're ranking well on SEO and OnCarrot, that's great, but are you providing enough content that the traffic you're bringing converts? Are you offering rent-to-own options or information, or how to buy an affordable home in these tight high priced market times (always popular topics).
Cater to your target market and those leads should start manifesting. And if not.. go out and find them.