My Take on Every Thread in the Wholesaling Forum
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesMy Take on Every Thread in the Wholesaling Forum
Most Popular Reply
Flipper/Rehabber · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 152 votes
5y@Don Konipol
11. OP never responds, because advice on BP is not what they want to hear.
109 Replies
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Scott Trench:
Haha - I giggled a little bit. @Don Konipol do you think there is any content we can point folks to that would help them weight the pros and cons of getting started in wholesaling (realistically) so that we can get to the next level of nuance in these forum threads?
Scott I got tired of is this legal or not IE marketing properties exactly like a broker would do that you dont own.. you know e mail blasts website .. saying your only selling a contract etc. So I sent one to the state of Oregon DRE for clarification and here was my response from them.
Hello Jay,
Thank you for getting back to me. The advertising copy you attached to your email came out perfectly and will be very helpful. Thanks!
The Agency is well aware that unlicensed “wholesalers” are rampant in our jurisdiction. Addressing the problems is like trying to put out small individual fires in a forest that is burning. The Agency’s investigations are complaint driven, so we rely heavily on the public, and our licensees to bring these individuals to our attention.
Thank you again for the information, if I have further questions for you during the investigation I will certainly reach out.
Best regards,
Frances Hlawatsch | Financial Investigator
State of Oregon - Real Estate Agency
They did open and investigation and this person who was selling real estate while not being licensed is now licensed.. One of the reasons I created a certain funding niche I have was to help those who wanted to be legal.. I did this in MS as well.. As one of my big clients there got turned in and fined etc.. then did it again and they arrested him..
I think the issue for you is going to be every state looks at this activity differently.. IL just passed law clearly making it illegal to do wholesaling without buying the property yourself first without a license.. Texas has a disclosure carve out.. So its really like most everything real estate related has to do with how each state is going to look at the activity.. in some markets wholesaling and assignment fee's are 80% or more of the lower value asset transactions. AS the price points are so low or the really rough areas are just not served by traditional brokers.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
simply not true these guys break through the LLC all the time I have more than 10 of them ( LLC's) and get hammered daily.. Now to be very fair here and balanced there was one ( wholesaler) in Baltimore who actually was listening to me talk to their set up person. Then grabbed the phone and we went at it for about 45 minutes.. I was sitting in my Vehicle in the woods of Oregon chasing a squatter off my property LOL.. Any way I digress I ended up liking him.. I booked a flight flew to Baltimore and worked with him for 2 days I now fund a lot of his deals .. its so dog eat dog there between the wholesalers when he gets a good one he wants it closed so another wholesaler does not snake it from him.. and we are doing some higher end flips etc.. So end of the day it went from him trying to get an assignment fee on one of my props to us partnering.. I have nothing to do with his assignment business of course.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2020 · 253 posts · 240 votes5y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
simply not true these guys break through the LLC all the time I have more than 10 of them ( LLC's) and get hammered daily.. Now to be very fair here and balanced there was one ( wholesaler) in Baltimore who actually was listening to me talk to their set up person. Then grabbed the phone and we went at it for about 45 minutes.. I was sitting in my Vehicle in the woods of Oregon chasing a squatter off my property LOL.. Any way I digress I ended up liking him.. I booked a flight flew to Baltimore and worked with him for 2 days I now fund a lot of his deals .. its so dog eat dog there between the wholesalers when he gets a good one he wants it closed so another wholesaler does not snake it from him.. and we are doing some higher end flips etc.. So end of the day it went from him trying to get an assignment fee on one of my props to us partnering.. I have nothing to do with his assignment business of course.
LLC's take a bit more detective work than skip tracing an individual's contact info (which can be found with a simple google search) but yes, LLC's are traceable especially if you are not using a registered agent and your primary address is listed under the business formation documentation. Finding contact information for a trust however is almost impossible for the average marketer if the trust is structured correctly.
One of the first things you learn when pulling lists is to only pull individuals and not corporate/llc's/trusts because you're likely not to find good contact information data.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Other thinly veiled "wholesalers are bad" circle jerk post huh? Let me grab my seat.
No, my point is not that “wholesalers are bad”. First, it is intended to be humorous because most wholesale threats follow the same formula. Second, there is no doubt that wanna be investors with no Capital are attracted to wholesaling but do not understand how difficult it is and what it takes to do it profitably.
I know several wholesalers who currently have businesses that gross a million plus that started with very little capital. In either case, since you know better than everyone else, why don’t you help instead of making threads to make yourself feel more high, mighty, and more superior than the next guy? Posting another “herp derp look at those stupid young wholesalers over there that have it all wrong let’s laugh at them” type of thread helps nobody and adds to the problem.
There are plenty of wannabe lenders, realtors, and other real estate investors who have unrealistic expectations that you can make condescending corny threads about. Stay out of the wholesale section if newbies asking questions about wholesaling russles your jimmies so much.
Yup i fund deals for these bigger wholesalers clients all over the US.. keep in mind Gross commissions does not equal net.. but suffice it to say they did what many others do in business they built a big business .. and spend fairly large amounts of capital per month to create that deal flow in the order of 25 to 100k a month.. this takes time to create unless you already have capital when you start.. Most who buy into the get rich do because of the hammering that you can do it with no money.. And of course you can but its got a 97% failure rate but for those 3% ers they do well. Real estate brokerage is no different 20% or so of all agents make 80% of the revenue.. at least that was how it was for the 3 brokerages I have owned over the last 30 years..
One can look at this as encouragement for those starting out like you want to do.. others see this as just Ra Ra and not very kind to those people since they will blow whatever little capital they have and be further in the hole.
Just like the paid for Guru training class's that are talked about.. I have been in that world for a long time.. and there is no question that some will do very good with the 40k they paid.. but the majority will do nothing with the information.. does that make it bad ??
There has to be some reality check when encouraging folks I think ??? But look at Apple computer or hewlet Packard started in garages with no money so who are we to say it cant work.. other than pointing out the facts and let the people know the realities ..
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
simply not true these guys break through the LLC all the time I have more than 10 of them ( LLC's) and get hammered daily.. Now to be very fair here and balanced there was one ( wholesaler) in Baltimore who actually was listening to me talk to their set up person. Then grabbed the phone and we went at it for about 45 minutes.. I was sitting in my Vehicle in the woods of Oregon chasing a squatter off my property LOL.. Any way I digress I ended up liking him.. I booked a flight flew to Baltimore and worked with him for 2 days I now fund a lot of his deals .. its so dog eat dog there between the wholesalers when he gets a good one he wants it closed so another wholesaler does not snake it from him.. and we are doing some higher end flips etc.. So end of the day it went from him trying to get an assignment fee on one of my props to us partnering.. I have nothing to do with his assignment business of course.
LLC's take a bit more detective work than skip tracing an individual's contact info (which can be found with a simple google search) but yes, LLC's are traceable especially if you are not using a registered agent and your primary address is listed under the business formation documentation. Finding contact information for a trust however is almost impossible for the average marketer if the trust is structured correctly.
One of the first things you learn when pulling lists is to only pull individuals and not corporate/llc's/trusts because you're likely not to find good contact information data.
Ya unfortunately in some states were we operate you MUST use your primary residence address in the filing so these folks even get my wifes CELL number :)
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Other thinly veiled "wholesalers are bad" circle jerk post huh? Let me grab my seat.
No, my point is not that “wholesalers are bad”. First, it is intended to be humorous because most wholesale threats follow the same formula. Second, there is no doubt that wanna be investors with no Capital are attracted to wholesaling but do not understand how difficult it is and what it takes to do it profitably.
I know several wholesalers who currently have businesses that gross a million plus that started with very little capital. In either case, since you know better than everyone else, why don’t you help instead of making threads to make yourself feel more high, mighty, and more superior than the next guy? Posting another “herp derp look at those stupid young wholesalers over there that have it all wrong let’s laugh at them” type of thread helps nobody and adds to the problem.
There are plenty of wannabe lenders, realtors, and other real estate investors who have unrealistic expectations that you can make condescending corny threads about. Stay out of the wholesale section if newbies asking questions about wholesaling russles your jimmies so much.
This may be the only place where someone with 165 posts to his name tells someone with over 3,000 posts and over 5,000 votes to “stay out of the wholesale section”.Duane,
its OK to take a pot shot at me.. But Don is by far one of the top 5 on BP in non emotional hyperbole etc postings and is a wicked smart business man better to get to know him is my advice.
Hey, when the wholesalers get on and insist they have gravitas, it's still better than when the remote-managing slumlords look for every justification to pass an obvious wear-and-tear expense on to a tenant. Some of those just hurt my heart.
- Investor · Corpus Christi, TX · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Annnnnnnd here we go with the, "I know wholesalers who are "making a killing" or "running a multi-million dollar business" or...well you get the picture. And yes, these always come from....wait for it....yep, wholesalers.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Other thinly veiled "wholesalers are bad" circle jerk post huh? Let me grab my seat.
No, my point is not that “wholesalers are bad”. First, it is intended to be humorous because most wholesale threats follow the same formula. Second, there is no doubt that wanna be investors with no Capital are attracted to wholesaling but do not understand how difficult it is and what it takes to do it profitably.
I know several wholesalers who currently have businesses that gross a million plus that started with very little capital. In either case, since you know better than everyone else, why don’t you help instead of making threads to make yourself feel more high, mighty, and more superior than the next guy? Posting another “herp derp look at those stupid young wholesalers over there that have it all wrong let’s laugh at them” type of thread helps nobody and adds to the problem.
There are plenty of wannabe lenders, realtors, and other real estate investors who have unrealistic expectations that you can make condescending corny threads about. Stay out of the wholesale section if newbies asking questions about wholesaling russles your jimmies so much.
Step #5..... just sayin, lol.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Nick C.:
Duane I think you're taking this thread a little too personally.
Also the bit about realtors doing more cold calling/texting isn't remotely true, although it may help other wholesalers sleep at night. I get dozens of mailers/cold calls/texts from wholesalers every month, 0 from realtors. I don't think it's a NAR agenda, anyone is welcome to start a thread about realtors here on BP, maybe they're just not as annoying. I'm not hating on the marketing wholesalers are doing, I know it works for the ones doing a ton of it, but let's be honest about it.
I take it personally because I feel like a lot of you guys look at wholesalers as the bottom rung, while reaping all of the benefits that come from wholesalers' deals. Rather that be as a lender lending money to flippers who get their deals from wholesalers or as a realtor being able to list a flip that was sourced from a wholesaler. Everybody hates wholesalers but love the deals they provide because they don't have the gravitas to do the grind that wholesalers do everyday. It's hypocritical and laughable at best.
I, nor any of my clients, have wasted any time or $ on "wholesalers" since 2012, because since then it's over-priced garbage wrapped in BS.
I find more off-market good deals for my clients than all my clients "wholesaler" connections combined. Am I just super-man of REI, sure, feel free to go with that thought, or the reality that there is about a bazillion EASY ways to direct connect with sellers today and it's no secret anymore, agents all over are doing it, investors from new to seasoned pro's are doing it. Fact is wholesalers are NO LONGER NEEDED. Your not.
Wholesalers are like Polaroids, man you were awesome when it mattered and holly-cow are you so epically not relevant anymore.
- 5yMindy JensenPro MemberBiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
Your post was most likely removed for violating our rules against deal making in the forums.
- 5yJerry PuckettPro MemberWholesaler · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either.
I'm sorry. This may shock you. More than half of my clients are Agents or Brokers. They use exactly the same marketing materials as those pesky wholesalers. Most of them wish to buy at a discount, and use a listing as a backup if they can't get their price. No one seems to have a problem with that, right?
But what this thread is about, as @Brett Tvenge so aptly pointed out and the thing that seems to tick everyone is the sheer volume of people who come here and waste time with pie in the sky questions and attitudes. (Oddly enough these posts can be ignored with less effort than it takes to read or respond, right?)
More oddly, the site's own marketing is designed to attract the very people that seem to annoy so many . And maybe that's what @Don Konipol's post was about as @Scott Trench picked up on. Believe me, Bigger Pockets wants these people here. The moderators do not take the posts down. If you see one that just gets to you, try reporting it or the offending user and see what they say. As far as the admins are concerned, everyone is equal, seasoned or not.
You want to change the site culture? Try taking it to the site instead of sticking it to the users. Just a thought. This place has always been open to wholesalers. And Agents, Lenders, Marketers, Flippers and Landlords to name a few.
From the About us Page: "We offer content, tools, and a community of over 2,000,000 members to help people avoid mistakes; learn valuable tips; find partners, deals, and financing and make the best investing decisions possible. BiggerPockets works hard to bring together real estate experts, newbies and everyone in between to gain the knowledge needed to reach their full potential." - Emphasis mine.
And from the site rules in case anyone is interested:
I - Do Not Flame or Troll
Flaming, flame-baiting, and trolling are not allowed anywhere on this site, including in posts, signatures, and private messages. Flaming is directly insulting another member, flame-baiting is making a comment with the intention of getting a flame as a response, and trolling involves starting arguments or upsetting people by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.J - Remember - All Members are Equals
Treat all BiggerPockets members equally, whether they are an admin, a moderator, or an average member. Do not single a member out because they have a low post count or a low status on the site. In addition, do not personally attack members who violate these rules. Instead, report the member or post to a moderator or admin.Hope that helps. This isn't wholesalers vs agents as I see it. It's about improving the site for everyone. Including those pesky wholesalers and all the newbies this site was designed to help. Friendly rivalry is great and helpful. Disdain and disgust taste bad even in your own mouth doesn't it?
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Guy Gimenez:
Annnnnnnd here we go with the, "I know wholesalers who are "making a killing" or "running a multi-million dollar business" or...well you get the picture. And yes, these always come from....wait for it....yep, wholesalers.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
The reason why a large portion of your training came from a Realtor because Realtors job is to broker real estate sales. That's all that wholesaling as it's commonly taught today is, it's simply brokering real estate, albeit without a license. Hence the reason it's an illegal activity and upsets lots of folks.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2020 · 253 posts · 240 votes5y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
The reason why a large portion of your training came from a Realtor because Realtors job is to broker real estate sales. That's all that wholesaling as it's commonly taught today is, it's simply brokering real estate, albeit without a license. Hence the reason it's an illegal activity and upsets lots of folks.
It only upsets other realtors and NAR because they feel like they're missing out on commission on properties they probably wouldn't want to deal with any way and are mad guys like me can do what they do without paying for a piece of paper.
- Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
If a realtor sent as many forms of communication as I get from wholesellers, they would go out of business. Its just too much. So a realtor may have taught you the techniques, but if you are communicating with the same person weekly, you are more likely to drive them away than to pull them in.
I personally have nothing against wholesellers---if they are honest in what they can do. I just do not like the ones that reel in a desperate person and waste their time, knowing it is 50/50 they will find a buyer in time to help the situation.
My Trust was not written to hide assets, but to prevent my heirs from having to finance probation he!!, to provide for one or maybe two special needs children I adopted, and to split my assets among my 5 children.. In the state I invest in, by law, any lease must include the name and contact information for the property owner. I am not trying to hide. And it would not matter what was in the Trust to hide from someone that used the County tax records of where the tax bills are sent to contact someone. I could have them go elsewhere, but then I paid for someone else to deal with 50 pieces of junk mail a week. I'd rather keep that money. I purposely changed phone numbers and only have a cell number now that is not linked to a physical address. Friends and businesses use the cell anyway. All my renters have the cell number. The house number was almost exclusively used by wholesellers and auto warranty scammers. No loss not having it now. Hated the 6 am calls or the 10 pm and later calls.
I would not hassle people for a living. I would find a more effective way to earn my keep. Personally I have no problems finding deals, even in a hot market. I just closed on a house last week. The numbers worked well. I paid $64k for it. For less than $20k in work, I will have $150k property. This one will be rented to my son, who wants to live in it. He wants to live there for the garage while he is in college the next 2 years. Its from a bankruptcy auction. Once he is done with it, it will be very easy to rent open market. I currently have 4 property to fix and rent. Won't finish them all until the end of next year. Plenty of deals, if one looks!
I do agree that if you sit around looking at the MLS you won't find much!
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
The reason why a large portion of your training came from a Realtor because Realtors job is to broker real estate sales. That's all that wholesaling as it's commonly taught today is, it's simply brokering real estate, albeit without a license. Hence the reason it's an illegal activity and upsets lots of folks.
It only upsets other realtors and NAR because they feel like they're missing out on commission on properties they probably wouldn't want to deal with any way and are mad guys like me can do what they do without paying for a piece of paper.
In GA it would cost you about $600 to get your license and $250 every four years to keep it. That includes your education and testing fees. You will have to take classes on ethics and fair housing laws. You will need to retain enough information to pass a test and you need to pass a criminal background check.
You can't even cut someone's hair in GA without a license and that requires substantially more expense and schooling. If you need a license to do a $20 hair cut, how is it unreasonable for hundred thousand dollar real estate transactions?
No doubt someone who paid the money and took the classes is probably upset that others think the rules don't apply to them. I can see their perspective.
- Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
Hey, when the wholesalers get on and insist they have gravitas, it's still better than when the remote-managing slumlords look for every justification to pass an obvious wear-and-tear expense on to a tenant. Some of those just hurt my heart.
It is even better when the tenant lived there 20 years and they didn't even own the property when the tenant moved in. They seem shocked that they need to repaint an replace carpet, like they think owning property is only rainbows, puppies and cash flow. Never mind the several hundred thousand dollars worth of rent collected over the years.
The valid point you are making is that hacks and cheats exist all over the place. Landlords, tenants, wholesalers, doctors, teachers... Every profession has them. I see nothing wrong with people on BP calling out others who are entering into illegal or unethical practices. Some people actually respond saying "thank you for telling me". I know many legit wholesalers and they are the first to call out the bad apples. Part of educating people is telling them what not to do.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
The reason why a large portion of your training came from a Realtor because Realtors job is to broker real estate sales. That's all that wholesaling as it's commonly taught today is, it's simply brokering real estate, albeit without a license. Hence the reason it's an illegal activity and upsets lots of folks.
It only upsets other realtors and NAR because they feel like they're missing out on commission on properties they probably wouldn't want to deal with any way and are mad guys like me can do what they do without paying for a piece of paper.
The fact that you refer to a license required by law in most, if not all 50 states, as an arbitrary "piece of paper" is the exact reason why you're never going to get the respect you're seekong from the other professionals out there.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
If a realtor sent as many forms of communication as I get from wholesellers, they would go out of business. Its just too much. So a realtor may have taught you the techniques, but if you are communicating with the same person weekly, you are more likely to drive them away than to pull them in.
I personally have nothing against wholesellers---if they are honest in what they can do. I just do not like the ones that reel in a desperate person and waste their time, knowing it is 50/50 they will find a buyer in time to help the situation.
My Trust was not written to hide assets, but to prevent my heirs from having to finance probation he!!, to provide for one or maybe two special needs children I adopted, and to split my assets among my 5 children.. In the state I invest in, by law, any lease must include the name and contact information for the property owner. I am not trying to hide. And it would not matter what was in the Trust to hide from someone that used the County tax records of where the tax bills are sent to contact someone. I could have them go elsewhere, but then I paid for someone else to deal with 50 pieces of junk mail a week. I'd rather keep that money. I purposely changed phone numbers and only have a cell number now that is not linked to a physical address. Friends and businesses use the cell anyway. All my renters have the cell number. The house number was almost exclusively used by wholesellers and auto warranty scammers. No loss not having it now. Hated the 6 am calls or the 10 pm and later calls.
I would not hassle people for a living. I would find a more effective way to earn my keep. Personally I have no problems finding deals, even in a hot market. I just closed on a house last week. The numbers worked well. I paid $64k for it. For less than $20k in work, I will have $150k property. This one will be rented to my son, who wants to live in it. He wants to live there for the garage while he is in college the next 2 years. Its from a bankruptcy auction. Once he is done with it, it will be very easy to rent open market. I currently have 4 property to fix and rent. Won't finish them all until the end of next year. Plenty of deals, if one looks!
I do agree that if you sit around looking at the MLS you won't find much!
Well having sold $200M+ I can say unequivocally that there is no such thing as too much marketing. Lack of marketing and subsequent leads is why most Realtors fail. Never once have I heard of one failing for marketing too much.
- Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes5y
@Don Konipol
There have been A LOT of assumptions made about my motives for posting the original post. Almost all are incorrect. The only motive was purely for humor. I just stated facts as to what various people habitually post. If it hits too close to home, we’ll maybe you need to look at why.
I do not dislike, or have any bias against people who are new to real estate and dream of an investing career, or to people who partake in the wholesaling arena. However, I do think it is pure laziness when someone doesn’t bother to find the answer to their questions, or to seek out education by searching the forums, blogs, and internet; instead asks a question expecting someone to provide a complete workable business plan and complete education for them in two posts. I also think it’s especially bad when the poster asks a question and then attacks those replying because he didn’t receive the answer he wished for.
As for my thoughts on “wholesaling”, well with 40 + years of mostly success experience as a real estate and mortgage note investor, fund manager, broker, etc., I can provide my personal opinion. So here goes….
1. Real estate wholesaling is not really wholesaling. Wholesaling anything requires purchasing goods in bulk at one price and selling in smaller quantities at a higher price per unit. Real estate “wholesalers” usually don’t complete the purchase or take title themselves, thereby failing the first part of the wholesaling definition. Further they rarely “buy in bulk” therefore missing the second part. What they are is unlicensed intermediaries.
2. The real estate brokerage profession has evolved into a model where the broker act as an agent for one of the principal parties, and as such has a fiduciary responsibility to that party as well as a duty of honesty to the other party. A “wholesaler” does not act as agent of the seller, or ultimate buyer for that matter. He owes no fiduciary obligation to the seller or buyer, and he probably owes no duty of honesty except for what is found in any commercial transaction.
3. As a result of #2 above the wholesaler does not provide a “service” to the seller, other than the service of being ready to purchase the sellers property at a below market price. In a general sense this can be a service in that it may provide liquidity to the seller, but it isn’t a service as in an agency or advisory relationship sense.
4. People with no capital are attracted to the wholesaling hype. The vast majority of people trying to wholesale fail miserably. Most “successful” wholesalers earn no more than a decent living.
5. A very few people are successful at creating a truly profitable wholesaling business. Most of these are the result of having a related business throwing off excess deals, such as owning a Homevestors franchise, and or spending $10,000 per month or more on marketing.
6. If the ibuying companies ever really get off the ground, wholesaling is finished. These guys offer the same price as wholesalers, or more, will actually close without having to find a buyer, and don’t need financing. If I had a wholesale operation I would be worried about them and not how real estate investors respond in a forum.
Let me know what you think….
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
The reason why a large portion of your training came from a Realtor because Realtors job is to broker real estate sales. That's all that wholesaling as it's commonly taught today is, it's simply brokering real estate, albeit without a license. Hence the reason it's an illegal activity and upsets lots of folks.
It only upsets other realtors and NAR because they feel like they're missing out on commission on properties they probably wouldn't want to deal with any way and are mad guys like me can do what they do without paying for a piece of paper.
The fact that you refer to a license required by law in most, if not all 50 states, as an arbitrary "piece of paper" is the exact reason why you're never going to get the respect you're seekong from the other professionals out there.
My marriage certificate and university diploma are just arbitrary pieces of paper, lol!
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
The reason why a large portion of your training came from a Realtor because Realtors job is to broker real estate sales. That's all that wholesaling as it's commonly taught today is, it's simply brokering real estate, albeit without a license. Hence the reason it's an illegal activity and upsets lots of folks.
It only upsets other realtors and NAR because they feel like they're missing out on commission on properties they probably wouldn't want to deal with any way and are mad guys like me can do what they do without paying for a piece of paper.
The fact that you refer to a license required by law in most, if not all 50 states, as an arbitrary "piece of paper" is the exact reason why you're never going to get the respect you're seekong from the other professionals out there.
Kind of reminds me of Pilots who got their student pilot license. ( just fill out the form and have a medical and your instructor signs it) then proceed to fly for years and years without ever getting a true Pilots license.. can they do it sure.. But do they crash and kill themselves and others you bet.. then the insurance company or other litigators will own everything you ever thought you had.. LOL.
Just dont crash :) If there were no rules in the US on bringing two parties together for compensation ( this defines most mortgage brokers as well) then there would be no real estate industry as we know it would be caveat emptor . Some business's are not regulated I was in the Timber business for years Log producer there are no rules or laws for buying and selling timber or getting a contract to buy timber then assigning it to another for a fee all perfectly legal. Even if your doing Timber deeds there is no license .. but when you throw in the dirt that said trees are growing on it becomes regulated along with other unimproved or improved real estate.
Ask any of the folks on BP that market turn key properties across the country virtually all of them are licensed and there is a reason for that even though they are just taking a marketing fee.. Reason they have run into legal problems by taking fee's with no license.
- Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @Duane Alexander:
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:
Originally posted by @BJ Marshall:
How does one effectively connect with wholesalers? I posted in the forums a bit ago about trying to connect with a wholesaler so that I could do some brrrr investing. Crickets. Methinks I did something wrong.
This is how I connected with whole sellers. Get a house that is out of state or local area from where you live. The wantabe whole sellers will call you, text you, send you postcards with a photo of the house, or at least where Google thinks the house is, send you a pretend handwritten letter, send you a yellow letter, basically annoy the heck out of you for the rest of your life. These ambitious whole sellers will continue to contact you even 4 years after you sold the house. Even after you have clearly told them no and that you already sold it--they will call 'in case you want to sell it again??'
Choose the whole seller you like best, yellow letters, personal calls from LV (according to caller ID) with a Pilipino accent, or do you prefer the Indian accent? Both are readily available! Or maybe you love texts? Or postcards? Maybe you like the one that calls at 6 am with 'good news before you start your day', or the one that calls at 10:30 at night and ends the call with 'nighty-night'?
That is how you connect with a whole seller of your choice!
If this is a serious problem for you my first suggestion for you or anyone else who is serious about investing in real estate, is to own your properties under an LLC or even better a trust. Not only does this have a whole host of benefits, it also makes it near impossible for people skip trace your information.
Also keep in mind that most of the calls, texts, letters you get typically come from the same couple of companies who employ a team of people. If they call/text/mail you, tell them that they have the WRONG NUMBER/PERSON or that you don’t own the house. If you simply tell them you’re not interested they will just pass your info along to their other teammate, who will act like they’re calling from another company, in hopes of catching you at a better time when you’re now interested in selling. If you tell them that they have the wrong number or person, they will not waste time/money/resources on trying to contact you again.
But seriously if you don't own your properties under an LLC or Trust, you should start.BTW, realtors cold call/text to find motivated sellers more than wholesalers do and they are way more realtors doing it. They literally do the same marketing we do. Why are there never any threads complaining about them? Hrmmmmm. Maybe cause there's an agenda and NAR....nevermind. You guys clearly aren't ready for that convo.
Mine are in a Trust. They get the address from the tax assessor's office that they send the tax bills to.
I have never, ever received a text from a realtor that was not under a contract relationship with me, nor received a phone call at 6 am or after 9pm. They never send me yellow letters either. Only thing I get from them is a post card about houses they have listed in the neighborhood or a card saying "if you want to sell, please call me". Never harassing or daily.
A realtor is who taught me how to use mojo dialer. When I was researching how to cold call motivated sellers, more than half of the material I was looking at was from a realtor.
If you can be found using your trust, then you need to fire your lawyer who drew up the papers to create your trust. It can cost thousands to break down the veil of a well constructed trust.
Regardless, if a person can make 10-15 grand and put his family in a better position by calling or texting 2500 people just like you a month, just to get that one yes, who are we to laugh and make fun of them for doing so? Are you willing to do that to get a deal? Doubt it. That’s why 90% of real estate investors on this forum struggle to get deals in a market this hot while wasting time laughing at or whining about wholesalers.
If a realtor sent as many forms of communication as I get from wholesellers, they would go out of business. Its just too much. So a realtor may have taught you the techniques, but if you are communicating with the same person weekly, you are more likely to drive them away than to pull them in.
I personally have nothing against wholesellers---if they are honest in what they can do. I just do not like the ones that reel in a desperate person and waste their time, knowing it is 50/50 they will find a buyer in time to help the situation.
My Trust was not written to hide assets, but to prevent my heirs from having to finance probation he!!, to provide for one or maybe two special needs children I adopted, and to split my assets among my 5 children.. In the state I invest in, by law, any lease must include the name and contact information for the property owner. I am not trying to hide. And it would not matter what was in the Trust to hide from someone that used the County tax records of where the tax bills are sent to contact someone. I could have them go elsewhere, but then I paid for someone else to deal with 50 pieces of junk mail a week. I'd rather keep that money. I purposely changed phone numbers and only have a cell number now that is not linked to a physical address. Friends and businesses use the cell anyway. All my renters have the cell number. The house number was almost exclusively used by wholesellers and auto warranty scammers. No loss not having it now. Hated the 6 am calls or the 10 pm and later calls.
I would not hassle people for a living. I would find a more effective way to earn my keep. Personally I have no problems finding deals, even in a hot market. I just closed on a house last week. The numbers worked well. I paid $64k for it. For less than $20k in work, I will have $150k property. This one will be rented to my son, who wants to live in it. He wants to live there for the garage while he is in college the next 2 years. Its from a bankruptcy auction. Once he is done with it, it will be very easy to rent open market. I currently have 4 property to fix and rent. Won't finish them all until the end of next year. Plenty of deals, if one looks!
I do agree that if you sit around looking at the MLS you won't find much!
Well having sold $200M+ I can say unequivocally that there is no such thing as too much marketing. Lack of marketing and subsequent leads is why most Realtors fail. Never once have I heard of one failing for marketing too much.
Maybe its more of the how they market. Calls at 6 am to wish me good morning and tell me the good news that they have a cash offer for my property that is not for sale, or sold years ago would turn me off to using them ever. Same with the nighty-night calls. I never get cold calls from realtors, mostly just a post card now and then. They are easy enough to deal with, trash and done. They do not wake the baby up!
Plus whenever there is a free seminar about wholeselling in Knoxville, Chat or Nashville, we get swamped with everything! Especially calls about already sold property. Guessing they give them a list of suckers to bother at the seminar. Lasts heavy for about two months, then they find something else to do:)
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
@Don Konipol
There have been A LOT of assumptions made about my motives for posting the original post. Almost all are incorrect. The only motive was purely for humor. I just stated facts as to what various people habitually post. If it hits too close to home, we’ll maybe you need to look at why.
I do not dislike, or have any bias against people who are new to real estate and dream of an investing career, or to people who partake in the wholesaling arena. However, I do think it is pure laziness when someone doesn’t bother to find the answer to their questions, or to seek out education by searching the forums, blogs, and internet; instead asks a question expecting someone to provide a complete workable business plan and complete education for them in two posts. I also think it’s especially bad when the poster asks a question and then attacks those replying because he didn’t receive the answer he wished for.
As for my thoughts on “wholesaling”, well with 40 + years of mostly success experience as a real estate and mortgage note investor, fund manager, broker, etc., I can provide my personal opinion. So here goes….
1. Real estate wholesaling is not really wholesaling. Wholesaling anything requires purchasing goods in bulk at one price and selling in smaller quantities at a higher price per unit. Real estate “wholesalers” usually don’t complete the purchase or take title themselves, thereby failing the first part of the wholesaling definition. Further they rarely “buy in bulk” therefore missing the second part. What they are is unlicensed intermediaries.
2. The real estate brokerage profession has evolved into a model where the broker act as an agent for one of the principal parties, and as such has a fiduciary responsibility to that party as well as a duty of honesty to the other party. A “wholesaler” does not act as agent of the seller, or ultimate buyer for that matter. He owes no fiduciary obligation to the seller or buyer, and he probably owes no duty of honesty except for what is found in any commercial transaction.
3. As a result of #2 above the wholesaler does not provide a “service” to the seller, other than the service of being ready to purchase the sellers property at a below market price. In a general sense this can be a service in that it may provide liquidity to the seller, but it isn’t a service as in an agency or advisory relationship sense.
4. People with no capital are attracted to the wholesaling hype. The vast majority of people trying to wholesale fail miserably. Most “successful” wholesalers earn no more than a decent living.
5. A very few people are successful at creating a truly profitable wholesaling business. Most of these are the result of having a related business throwing off excess deals, such as owning a Homevestors franchise, and or spending $10,000 per month or more on marketing.
6. If the ibuying companies ever really get off the ground, wholesaling is finished. These guys offer the same price as wholesalers, or more, will actually close without having to find a buyer, and don’t need financing. If I had a wholesale operation I would be worried about them and not how real estate investors respond in a forum.
Let me know what you think….
Thank you especially for #'s 5 and 6. Yeah, everyone has the anecdotal "person I know who wholesales and makes $100k/mo", yet they fail to realize the marketing $$$'s that person incurred to get to that point (assuming its even true). Its certainly not the cost of 2 rolls of stamps and some notebook paper.
Just like Carvana and the like has interrupted the craigslist bottom-dweller catfish trying to lowball car sellers, and sometimes getting away with it, like you said ibuyers will be the end of wholesaling except for the most technologically inept homeowners, whom coincidentally need the most consumer protections real estate licensing provides.
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