C class neighborhood property Management issue

Investor · Hatboro, PA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 866 votes

1mo

The bigger issue for me isn’t the repairs, it’s that you don’t seem to trust what they’re telling you anymore. That’s a tough way to own a property from another state. I’d check the agreement and see what it says about getting out early, but I’d also start talking to other PMs now. Having your own local vendors definitely helps, but I’d still want somebody local I trust handling the day-to-day stuff.

5 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @G. Brian Davis:

The bigger issue for me isn’t the repairs, it’s that you don’t seem to trust what they’re telling you anymore. That’s a tough way to own a property from another state. I’d check the agreement and see what it says about getting out early, but I’d also start talking to other PMs now. Having your own local vendors definitely helps, but I’d still want somebody local I trust handling the day-to-day stuff.

Thanks Brian for your response. I agree that trust is what I feel is lagging, if someone does not want to clarify and adamant in their responses. I will consent with you on day-to-day handling.
1 Reply

Stuart UdisPro Member

Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

1mo

The biggest issue is that you bought lousy real estate. Lousy real estate tends to attract lower quality tenants, creates greater operating risk and management complexity, and makes it very difficult to hire a quality property manager. Most experienced property managers do not want to deal with the constant headaches because the compensation is rarely commensurate with the added time and headaches. Even the property managers who sign up for this asset class place a value on their time meaning they aren't fighting to negotiate the best turn over services etc. etc. There's just too much added work to be compensated by a percentage of rent and add on fees.

Of course, PM's will argue this point but that's because they are selling their services. I assume this was not part of your decision process when you made you c neighborhood purchase in a distant market. Also, most who say they purchased a C class property in a distant market actually purchased much worse, so it's worth verifying what you actually purchased to better understand the headwinds you are going to be up against regardless of who you select as your PM.

[email protected]

1 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @Stuart Udis:

The biggest issue is that you bought lousy real estate. Lousy real estate tends to attract lower quality tenants, creates greater operating risk and management complexity, and makes it very difficult to hire a quality property manager. Most experienced property managers do not want to deal with the constant headaches because the compensation is rarely commensurate with the added time and headaches. Even the property managers who sign up for this asset class place a value on their time meaning they aren't fighting to negotiate the best turn over services etc. etc. There's just too much added work to be compensated by a percentage of rent and add on fees.
Of course, PM's will argue this point but that's because they are selling their services. I assume this was not part of your decision process when you made you c neighborhood purchase in a distant market. Also, most who say they purchased a C class property in a distant market actually purchased much worse, so it's worth verifying what you actually purchased to better understand the headwinds you are going to be up against regardless of who you select as your PM.

Thanks Stuart for your response. From 2024 until beginning of this year, I did not had issue with cashflow. I will consider your comments.
0 Reply

Caleb Brown

Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes

1mo

This seems rougher than a C area. Keep that in mind, there will be more hassle and expenses with maintaining it. Can you maybe sell and trade up to a better area?

1) You'd need to review the agreement. There may be a clause to terminate early with a fee.

2) Can be done but hard to do with properties like this. Easier to self manage with B and A areas.

3) It may. You would still need someone to check on the property especially when it's vacant. Since you had a break in you ant to closely watch for squatters and your HVAC being stolen.

0 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @Caleb Brown:

This seems rougher than a C area. Keep that in mind, there will be more hassle and expenses with maintaining it. Can you maybe sell and trade up to a better area?
1) You'd need to review the agreement. There may be a clause to terminate early with a fee.
2) Can be done but hard to do with properties like this. Easier to self manage with B and A areas.
3) It may. You would still need someone to check on the property especially when it's vacant. Since you had a break in you ant to closely watch for squatters and your HVAC being stolen.

Thanks Caleb for the response.
I had thought of selling and buying at different locations, but this property produced cashflow until recently. THe new PM was still not able to find a tenant and their expenses are killing me.
I will take your advise on the self managing.
0 Reply

Michael K GallagherBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Columbus OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

1mo

Hey @Satish Chandra unfortunate to hear you are having this experience. I know of ERA and have had a couple clients go with them and generally have understood they had good experiences, but I appreciate this recent update and context. Not sure of the area you bought in, or the goals you had for the property, but in general if you have vendor contacts and are ok with tenant communication and handling of repairs then you could likely successfully manage from out of state.

I have a good amount of clients that elect to manage remotely, they have vendor contacts, set up a tenant manage online portal like a hemlane or similar depending on their needs, and then get a local leasing agent to handle the showings and leasing paperwork.

Generally noone will care about your property like you will, but to some other comments here, managing a property remotley or locally that is challenged for whatever reason is essentially that a challenge.

[email protected]614-362-2231

0 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @Michael K Gallagher:

Hey @Satish Chandra unfortunate to hear you are having this experience. I know of ERA and have had a couple clients go with them and generally have understood they had good experiences, but I appreciate this recent update and context. Not sure of the area you bought in, or the goals you had for the property, but in general if you have vendor contacts and are ok with tenant communication and handling of repairs then you could likely successfully manage from out of state.
I have a good amount of clients that elect to manage remotely, they have vendor contacts, set up a tenant manage online portal like a hemlane or similar depending on their needs, and then get a local leasing agent to handle the showings and leasing paperwork.
Generally noone will care about your property like you will, but to some other comments here, managing a property remotley or locally that is challenged for whatever reason is essentially that a challenge.

Thanks Mike for your response. Looks like ERA is bigger and there are multiple independent vendors who work under their name. If someone is arrogant and adamant in answering me properly, then it raises questions. Also, if installing basic stuff and charging me hefty amount is another red sign. These two factors are worrying me.
As you said, noone will care about our properties than us. I have to find a way to make this work or dunno, if I need to sell and find local investment.
0 Reply

Chase Busick

Realtor · Oklahoma City · Member since 2020 · 258 posts · 139 votes

1mo

@Satish Chandra, hey!

yeah it definitely seems high on their bids but may be a lot of work & they will charge more for coordinating as well.

You can manage it from afar fairly easily if you have contacts - have them take pics & update you on condition of/when they go out when it's occupied.
hardest part would be doing the tenant screening. You'd save a lot more money, but you'd be responsible for most.

0 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @Chase Busick:

@Satish Chandra, hey!

yeah it definitely seems high on their bids but may be a lot of work & they will charge more for coordinating as well.

You can manage it from afar fairly easily if you have contacts - have them take pics & update you on condition of/when they go out when it's occupied.
hardest part would be doing the tenant screening. You'd save a lot more money, but you'd be responsible for most.
Thanks Chase for your response. Yes I was wondering self manage, but trying to put pieces together what it takes to make it work and worth.
0 Reply

Stuart UdisPro Member

Attorney · Philadelphia · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

1mo

@Satish Chandra You can't judge cash flow in such a narrow window. Especially with lower tier real estate. Everything is disproportionately impacted. Turnovers, cap ex, even recurring services. You are in for a rude awakening if you believe what you experienced 2024 until recently was actually cash flow.

[email protected]

0 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @Stuart Udis:

@Satish Chandra You can't judge cash flow in such a narrow window. Especially with lower tier real estate. Everything is disproportionately impacted. Turnovers, cap ex, even recurring services. You are in for a rude awakening if you believe what you experienced 2024 until recently was actually cash flow.

I agree Stuart. Trying to navigate through this.
0 Reply

Richard F.

Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

1mo

It is impossible to make a judgment without knowing the actual condition of the property, inside and out. The fact one unit had been vacant for 3 months, with former tenant evicted is quite serious, given the time of year. Also, you state the S8 tenant "lost" their assistance? That is unusual. It sounds to me like screening has been ineffective, BUT, that may be do to a really undesirable property, in terms of actual condition and finishes. I handled 100's of S8 units in the midwest, and learned early on that the quality of the unit directly affects the quality of the tenants. You need to attract the top 10% of the tenant pool for the price tier of the unit. You can't do that with low standards.

With regard to your new vendor(s), are they properly licensed and insured, and you have verified this? If not, there is a major part of the price differential from the PM's vendors. In either case, until you have inspected finished work and observed their performance over a period of time, basing judgment on cost alone has no value.

As others stated, you need to check your management agreement with regard to early termination. Our policy was always 30 day written notice by either party. Of course, we also inspected potential new client properties, and discussed our findings/recommendations with the owner prior to actually signing. Some owners just have unrealistic expectations.

I've managed properties for lots of OOS owners over the years, it's no different that for local owners, from our standpoint. A PM either has solid systems and lots of experience, or not. It's up to you to properly investigate and question their processes and terms prior to signing.

0 Reply

Oyinnijesu Shittu

Member since 2026 · 2 posts · 1 vote

1mo

The PM may not be the only issue the bigger concern is lack of cost transparency.

You have a key data point: PM-recommended vendors quoted $8k $10k, while your local vendor completed the work (plus extras) for $4.5k. That doesn’t prove overcharging, but it absolutely justifies requiring itemized scopes, invoices, vendor bids, management fees/markups, and approval thresholds before future work.

For termination, review the management agreement closely especially the termination clause, notice period, early termination fees, owner obligations, vendor authorization rules, and renewal terms. Your ability to exit depends entirely on that contract and state law.

Yes, a duplex can be self-managed remotely, especially with reliable local vendors. The key is having a solid network: plumber, handyman/GC, HVAC, electrician, locksmith, cleaning crew, lawn/snow service, and an emergency contact, plus a clear leasing and screening process.

Separate property management from maintenance: you can handle tenants, rent collection, inspections, and bookkeeping while outsourcing repairs.

Set a written repair authorization limit (e.g., anything over $X needs approval unless urgent) and require photos, itemized scopes, and multiple quotes for larger non-emergency work.

You already have valuable experience and vendor relationships, which is a major advantage.

Run the full math on self-management vs PM over 12 months including all fees, markups, vacancy, and your time.

Don’t terminate purely out of frustration. Review the contract, organize records, and have your replacement system ready first.

0 Reply

Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

1mo

Quote from @Satish Chandra:

Hello everyone,

Hope you’re all doing well. This is my first post here, and I’m looking for some guidance from the BP community regarding an out‑of‑state long‑term rental.

I purchased a duplex in September 2024. One unit had a Section 8 tenant who stayed until recently when she lost her assistance. The other unit has now been vacant for three months after I had to evict a non‑paying tenant.

My main challenge right now is with property management. I switched to ERA a few months ago because my previous PM couldn’t clearly explain expenses. After the switch, ERA handled the eviction and sent three different vendors to quote the turn‑over work. All three came back between $8k and $10k. When I questioned the pricing, the PM responded in a rude and dismissive way, basically saying I either accept their vendors or find my own.

I ended up finding a local vendor myself who completed all the work — plus additional items — for $4.5k.

Shortly after that, ERA reported break‑ins and said I needed door bolts, a storm door, and a camera system. Their quote was $1,600. I pushed back, but ultimately I ended up paying the $1,600, which wiped out my cashflow for the month.

To make things worse, they installed a basic camera for $275 with a $100 monthly subscription. I told them I wasn’t okay with that and asked them to remove it. After that, I purchased my own Ring camera for $100 with a $5 monthly plan, which is all the property really needed.

Their response was basically:

They took over the property when both units were problematic
They’re doing more than what is “normally done”
If I’m not happy, I can switch management

So here are my questions for the community:

I signed a one‑year agreement with this PM. Is it possible to terminate early?
Can an out‑of‑state owner realistically self‑manage a duplex like this?
I now have reliable vendor contacts for repairs, plumbing, and handyman work — does that make remote management more feasible?

It’s a long post, but I’m hoping to get some solid advice and insight from the BP gurus.

Sell the property and start over. When PM's don't care if they lose your business you are not in a C class area, you are in a warzone.

Irish Jones Realty4.947 Reviews

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0 Reply

Drew SygitBusiness Member

Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes

1mo

Quote from @Satish Chandra:

Hello everyone,

Hope you’re all doing well. This is my first post here, and I’m looking for some guidance from the BP community regarding an out‑of‑state long‑term rental.

I purchased a duplex in September 2024. One unit had a Section 8 tenant who stayed until recently when she lost her assistance. The other unit has now been vacant for three months after I had to evict a non‑paying tenant.

My main challenge right now is with property management. I switched to ERA a few months ago because my previous PM couldn’t clearly explain expenses. After the switch, ERA handled the eviction and sent three different vendors to quote the turn‑over work. All three came back between $8k and $10k. When I questioned the pricing, the PM responded in a rude and dismissive way, basically saying I either accept their vendors or find my own.

I ended up finding a local vendor myself who completed all the work — plus additional items — for $4.5k.

Shortly after that, ERA reported break‑ins and said I needed door bolts, a storm door, and a camera system. Their quote was $1,600. I pushed back, but ultimately I ended up paying the $1,600, which wiped out my cashflow for the month.

To make things worse, they installed a basic camera for $275 with a $100 monthly subscription. I told them I wasn’t okay with that and asked them to remove it. After that, I purchased my own Ring camera for $100 with a $5 monthly plan, which is all the property really needed.

Their response was basically:

They took over the property when both units were problematic
They’re doing more than what is “normally done”
If I’m not happy, I can switch management

So here are my questions for the community:

I signed a one‑year agreement with this PM. Is it possible to terminate early?
Can an out‑of‑state owner realistically self‑manage a duplex like this?
I now have reliable vendor contacts for repairs, plumbing, and handyman work — does that make remote management more feasible?

It’s a long post, but I’m hoping to get some solid advice and insight from the BP gurus.

No offense, but we're only hearing your side of the story.

Some questions & observations:

1) EXACTLY how does this PMC screen applicants?
What documents do they require?
How do they verify current/previous landlord info => so, they know they are communicating with landlord NOT family/friend?
How do they avoid fake paystubs?
How do they evaluate a credit report or do they just get an "Approve or Deny" response?

2) Where are they advertising your vacant units?
Zillow only?
How about GoSection8?

3) How are they securing your property against theft & squatters?
In Class C & D areas, we prefer to remove mechanicals and reinstall when new tenant moves in.
We also use Armor Guard jamb reinforcement and double-key deadbolts

4) Did they give you the actual bids from the contractors or just the amounts?
How do you know there were actually 3 bids?
Where did you find your contractor?
How did you screen the contractor you used to make sure they had liability insurance - or did you just "wing it" and hope no one got hurt during the work?
How did you verify the QUALITY of the completed work?

5) More importantly, how did you determine the Scope Of Work (SOW) with the PMC?
What research did they provide or you verify about "Maintaining to the Market"?

6) WHy didn't you ask for more info about the camera system BEFORE approving the install?
- What did the $100/month subscription include?
- Direct link to police or security company?
What do you expect to be done if your Ring system alerts you of a break-in?
- Do you expect the PMC to send someone ASAP to investigate and potentially get shot?

7) It sounds like you hired a PMC that normally deals with Class A & B properties, that is ill-equipped to deal with your property class.
- So, from their perspective, they ARE doing a lot more than they normally would!

I wouldn't say you need to find a better PMC.

I'd say you need to find a PMC that better fits your property class.
- You will also need to adjust your expectations - you won't get Class A results from a Class C/D property.

[email protected]248-209-6824

Logical Property Management4.9459 Reviews

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2 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @Drew Sygit:
Quote from @Satish Chandra:

Hello everyone,

Hope you’re all doing well. This is my first post here, and I’m looking for some guidance from the BP community regarding an out‑of‑state long‑term rental.

I purchased a duplex in September 2024. One unit had a Section 8 tenant who stayed until recently when she lost her assistance. The other unit has now been vacant for three months after I had to evict a non‑paying tenant.

My main challenge right now is with property management. I switched to ERA a few months ago because my previous PM couldn’t clearly explain expenses. After the switch, ERA handled the eviction and sent three different vendors to quote the turn‑over work. All three came back between $8k and $10k. When I questioned the pricing, the PM responded in a rude and dismissive way, basically saying I either accept their vendors or find my own.

I ended up finding a local vendor myself who completed all the work — plus additional items — for $4.5k.

Shortly after that, ERA reported break‑ins and said I needed door bolts, a storm door, and a camera system. Their quote was $1,600. I pushed back, but ultimately I ended up paying the $1,600, which wiped out my cashflow for the month.

To make things worse, they installed a basic camera for $275 with a $100 monthly subscription. I told them I wasn’t okay with that and asked them to remove it. After that, I purchased my own Ring camera for $100 with a $5 monthly plan, which is all the property really needed.

Their response was basically:

They took over the property when both units were problematic
They’re doing more than what is “normally done”
If I’m not happy, I can switch management

So here are my questions for the community:

I signed a one‑year agreement with this PM. Is it possible to terminate early?
Can an out‑of‑state owner realistically self‑manage a duplex like this?
I now have reliable vendor contacts for repairs, plumbing, and handyman work — does that make remote management more feasible?

It’s a long post, but I’m hoping to get some solid advice and insight from the BP gurus.

No offense, but we're only hearing your side of the story.
Some questions & observations:
1) EXACTLY how does this PMC screen applicants?
What documents do they require?
How do they verify current/previous landlord info => so, they know they are communicating with landlord NOT family/friend?
How do they avoid fake paystubs?
How do they evaluate a credit report or do they just get an "Approve or Deny" response?
2) Where are they advertising your vacant units?
Zillow only?
How about GoSection8?
3) How are they securing your property against theft & squatters?
In Class C & D areas, we prefer to remove mechanicals and reinstall when new tenant moves in.
We also use Armor Guard jamb reinforcement and double-key deadbolts
4) Did they give you the actual bids from the contractors or just the amounts?
How do you know there were actually 3 bids?
Where did you find your contractor?
How did you screen the contractor you used to make sure they had liability insurance - or did you just "wing it" and hope no one got hurt during the work?
How did you verify the QUALITY of the completed work?
5) More importantly, how did you determine the Scope Of Work (SOW) with the PMC?
What research did they provide or you verify about "Maintaining to the Market"?
6) WHy didn't you ask for more info about the camera system BEFORE approving the install?
- What did the $100/month subscription include?
- Direct link to police or security company?
What do you expect to be done if your Ring system alerts you of a break-in?
- Do you expect the PMC to send someone ASAP to investigate and potentially get shot?
7) It sounds like you hired a PMC that normally deals with Class A & B properties, that is ill-equipped to deal with your property class.
- So, from their perspective, they ARE doing a lot more than they normally would!
I wouldn't say you need to find a better PMC.
I'd say you need to find a PMC that better fits your property class.
- You will also need to adjust your expectations - you won't get Class A results from a Class C/D property.
Thank you very much for the response. You got covered good points. They list in multiple platforms and mentioned that , they dont specifically target Section-8, but those who are sectioon-8 eligible can apply.
I will consider your points and inquire more with them. Thanks for laying out those points
0 Reply

Henry Lazerow

Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

1mo

Sell it and self manage an A or B asset. Build good repair contacts over time and use a leasing agent it is surprisingly easy. I have clients who do this from out of state but not for C class, its difficult to even keep C or lower profitable if your local. I just sold a C class 4 unit that was such a nightmare, the tenant turnovers destroyed all cashflow.

0 Reply

James JonesPro Member

Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 707 posts · 517 votes

1mo

Satish, Memphis operator here - few hundred doors, most of them Section 8, C-class value neighborhoods, since 2003. I run the exact asset class half this thread is telling you to sell, so let me give you the view from inside it.

First, the thing nobody has said directly: your duplex didn't stop working because it's a bad asset. It stopped working because it lost its Section 8 engine. When that unit had a voucher tenant, most of the rent arrived by government direct deposit no matter what the block was doing - that's WHY you had clean cash flow from 2024 until recently. The fix isn't selling into a soft market three months into a vacancy. The fix is getting both units back on the voucher pipeline. Columbus is CMHA territory: get the vacant unit inspection-ready, list it where voucher holders actually search (AffordableHousing.com, and tell CMHA directly), and price it at the payment standard for that zip and bedroom count. Voucher demand doesn't care that your street is C-class - that's the entire point of the strategy.

On "she lost her assistance" - Richard's instinct is right, that phrase deserves one phone call. Tenants lose vouchers for exactly two reasons: income recertification or program violations. If she's still in the unit and it was income-based, she may re-qualify, and either way the housing authority will tell you what happened. Worth knowing before you re-lease.

On the PM: Drew nailed the diagnosis - you hired an A/B-class shop for a C-class voucher property, and everything you experienced follows from that mismatch. The $8-10K quotes weren't necessarily theft; they were a company whose vendor bench is priced for granite countertops being asked to do a C-class turn. When you interview the replacement, skip the pleasantries and ask two numbers: what percentage of your Section 8 inspections pass first time, and what's your average days from vacancy to first HAP payment. A PM who runs voucher units answers both instantly. A PM who says "Section 8 friendly" and then stalls is telling you they've never actually done it - and in this asset class the PM matters more than the address.

On self-managing from out of state: possible, but not while the property is bleeding. Stabilize both units first with someone competent local, THEN decide. A vacant C-class unit being self-managed from another state is how you learn what Caleb meant about HVAC theft.

You bought a cash-flow machine and it's missing its part. Put the part back before you decide the machine is broken.

0 Reply

Jimmy LieuBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

1mo

Quote from @Satish Chandra:

Hello everyone,

Hope you’re all doing well. This is my first post here, and I’m looking for some guidance from the BP community regarding an out‑of‑state long‑term rental.

I purchased a duplex in September 2024. One unit had a Section 8 tenant who stayed until recently when she lost her assistance. The other unit has now been vacant for three months after I had to evict a non‑paying tenant.

My main challenge right now is with property management. I switched to ERA a few months ago because my previous PM couldn’t clearly explain expenses. After the switch, ERA handled the eviction and sent three different vendors to quote the turn‑over work. All three came back between $8k and $10k. When I questioned the pricing, the PM responded in a rude and dismissive way, basically saying I either accept their vendors or find my own.

I ended up finding a local vendor myself who completed all the work — plus additional items — for $4.5k.

Shortly after that, ERA reported break‑ins and said I needed door bolts, a storm door, and a camera system. Their quote was $1,600. I pushed back, but ultimately I ended up paying the $1,600, which wiped out my cashflow for the month.

To make things worse, they installed a basic camera for $275 with a $100 monthly subscription. I told them I wasn’t okay with that and asked them to remove it. After that, I purchased my own Ring camera for $100 with a $5 monthly plan, which is all the property really needed.

Their response was basically:

They took over the property when both units were problematic
They’re doing more than what is “normally done”
If I’m not happy, I can switch management

So here are my questions for the community:

I signed a one‑year agreement with this PM. Is it possible to terminate early?
Can an out‑of‑state owner realistically self‑manage a duplex like this?
I now have reliable vendor contacts for repairs, plumbing, and handyman work — does that make remote management more feasible?

It’s a long post, but I’m hoping to get some solid advice and insight from the BP gurus.

Welcome to BP, Satish! I’d start by reading the termination section of your management agreement carefully because many PM contracts allow early termination with notice, a termination fee, or under specific circumstances. Based on what you described, I’d also ask for a complete ledger and copies of every invoice before making a decision. Remote self-management is definitely possible for a duplex, especially now that you already have reliable local vendors, but the biggest challenge is having someone dependable for emergencies, inspections, turnovers, and situations that require a physical presence. You can handle rent collection, tenant communication, screening, leases, and most coordination remotely, while using your local team for boots-on-the-ground work. Before leaving the PM, I’d make sure you have systems for leasing, emergencies, inspections, and tenant issues so you’re not scrambling when something happens. Also check your state and local rules around leasing and property management, since requirements vary by location. Happy to connect and answer any questions you have!

[email protected]614-300-7535

Jimmy Lieu, Red 1 Realty4.9120 Reviews

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0 Reply

Josh HandlerPro Member

Contractor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2026 · 67 posts · 78 votes

1mo

Contractor here, so I'll take the part of this nobody has answered: whether that $8-10k versus $4.5k gap actually means you were being gouged.

Housekeeping first, since James posted above me: he and I are the same ownership. Different companies, same people. Read us as one voice, not two.

On the gap. A spread that size is almost never one company being twice as greedy as another. It's usually one or more of these, and you can find out which in about ten minutes:

Different scope. The $8-10k bids may have included things your $4.5k guy didn't do, or did differently. Lay the bids side by side against what actually got done. If the expensive bids listed a full repipe or a panel and your guy painted around them, those weren't the same job.

Licensed and insured versus not. A licensed, insured, workers-comp-carrying contractor costs roughly 30-50% more than a guy with a truck, and that's not markup, that's overhead. Ask your $4.5k vendor for a COI. If he can't produce one, you didn't get a bargain, you took on liability. Somebody gets hurt in your duplex and that's your problem now.

PM markup. Ask your PM point blank, in writing: "do you mark up vendor invoices, and by what percentage." A 15% markup on a $9k turn is $1,350. That's a real answer and they have to give it to you.

Coordination. Some of that spread is the PM's vendors pricing in the hassle of dealing with the PM.

The three-bid thing everyone recommends is worthless unless all three are bidding the same written scope. Three contractors walking a house and guessing at what you want will always produce a wide spread, and it tells you nothing. Write the scope yourself, room by room, replace-versus-repair, then hand the same page to everybody.

One more, because it's the thing that will actually cost you: your vacant unit. Three months empty in a C-class neighborhood with break-ins already reported is where HVAC condensers and copper walk off. If you haven't already, get the power on, get somebody physically laying eyes on it weekly, and consider pulling the condenser and reinstalling at move-in. That's a bigger number than anything in this thread.

Not your market so I've got no dog in it, and I'm not offering to do anything. Just answering the question you actually asked.

901-239-3970

0 Reply

Satish Chandra
OP
Member since 2021 · 18 posts · 9 votes
1mo
Quote from @Josh Handler:

Contractor here, so I'll take the part of this nobody has answered: whether that $8-10k versus $4.5k gap actually means you were being gouged.
Housekeeping first, since James posted above me: he and I are the same ownership. Different companies, same people. Read us as one voice, not two.
On the gap. A spread that size is almost never one company being twice as greedy as another. It's usually one or more of these, and you can find out which in about ten minutes:
Different scope. The $8-10k bids may have included things your $4.5k guy didn't do, or did differently. Lay the bids side by side against what actually got done. If the expensive bids listed a full repipe or a panel and your guy painted around them, those weren't the same job.
Licensed and insured versus not. A licensed, insured, workers-comp-carrying contractor costs roughly 30-50% more than a guy with a truck, and that's not markup, that's overhead. Ask your $4.5k vendor for a COI. If he can't produce one, you didn't get a bargain, you took on liability. Somebody gets hurt in your duplex and that's your problem now.
PM markup. Ask your PM point blank, in writing: "do you mark up vendor invoices, and by what percentage." A 15% markup on a $9k turn is $1,350. That's a real answer and they have to give it to you.
Coordination. Some of that spread is the PM's vendors pricing in the hassle of dealing with the PM.
The three-bid thing everyone recommends is worthless unless all three are bidding the same written scope. Three contractors walking a house and guessing at what you want will always produce a wide spread, and it tells you nothing. Write the scope yourself, room by room, replace-versus-repair, then hand the same page to everybody.
One more, because it's the thing that will actually cost you: your vacant unit. Three months empty in a C-class neighborhood with break-ins already reported is where HVAC condensers and copper walk off. If you haven't already, get the power on, get somebody physically laying eyes on it weekly, and consider pulling the condenser and reinstalling at move-in. That's a bigger number than anything in this thread.
Not your market so I've got no dog in it, and I'm not offering to do anything. Just answering the question you actually asked.

Hi Josh,
Thanks for the repsonse.
I compared the bids and work done by my guy. My guy did more than bid work. My guy did addition HVAC repair too.
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Alfath AhmedBusiness Member

Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

1mo

Quote from @Satish Chandra:

Hello everyone,

Hope you’re all doing well. This is my first post here, and I’m looking for some guidance from the BP community regarding an out‑of‑state long‑term rental.

I purchased a duplex in September 2024. One unit had a Section 8 tenant who stayed until recently when she lost her assistance. The other unit has now been vacant for three months after I had to evict a non‑paying tenant.

My main challenge right now is with property management. I switched to ERA a few months ago because my previous PM couldn’t clearly explain expenses. After the switch, ERA handled the eviction and sent three different vendors to quote the turn‑over work. All three came back between $8k and $10k. When I questioned the pricing, the PM responded in a rude and dismissive way, basically saying I either accept their vendors or find my own.

I ended up finding a local vendor myself who completed all the work — plus additional items — for $4.5k.

Shortly after that, ERA reported break‑ins and said I needed door bolts, a storm door, and a camera system. Their quote was $1,600. I pushed back, but ultimately I ended up paying the $1,600, which wiped out my cashflow for the month.

To make things worse, they installed a basic camera for $275 with a $100 monthly subscription. I told them I wasn’t okay with that and asked them to remove it. After that, I purchased my own Ring camera for $100 with a $5 monthly plan, which is all the property really needed.

Their response was basically:

They took over the property when both units were problematic
They’re doing more than what is “normally done”
If I’m not happy, I can switch management

So here are my questions for the community:

I signed a one‑year agreement with this PM. Is it possible to terminate early?
Can an out‑of‑state owner realistically self‑manage a duplex like this?
I now have reliable vendor contacts for repairs, plumbing, and handyman work — does that make remote management more feasible?

It’s a long post, but I’m hoping to get some solid advice and insight from the BP gurus.

I have done a ton of business with ERA and they have taken good care of my clients. Property mgmt is a hard business especially when you are managing several hundred or thousand units in C/B class areas.

1. I am sure if you speak with ERA, they will let you out the contract.

2. I don't recommend. Find smaller PMs that can manage and lease for you.

3. Yes it does but still have an on-site boots on the ground or PM. Your life will be a lot easier.

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C class neighborhood property Management issue

C class neighborhood property Management issue

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