T&M General Contractor in Los Angeles?

Question

Hi all, I've got a house I'm renovating in the Glendale/Pasadena area and I'm overwhelmed since there's a lot to do and I live quite far from the house (about 2 hours away).  Originally I was looking for a general contractor to bid on the whole project but after a couple of exorbitant bids, I ran across the the option of T&M (Time & Materials) contract.  I think that could work for me because it isn't a big job, yet there are a lot of small things to take care of.  I had a few questions though.

Here's the rough list of work needed:

1. Prep and paint 2100 sqft house

2. Install laminate floors in 1600 sqft, tile in 2 bathrooms, and tile outside in 450 sqft patio.

3. Remove current concrete/stone patio and pour new concrete patio (450sqft).

4. Demo kitchen, install cabinets, install countertop, kitchen electric, kitchen lights, kitchen plumbing (including saw cutting cement to run water pipes and electric).

5. New master vanity, add additional sink, new lights.

6. Repair exterior wood, seal exterior of house

7. Other misc.

I'm thinking it would probably take a crew of 4 people maybe 7-10 days to do this (???).  But I'm wondering under a T&M contract, would the general contractor send the same team for the entire time?  And would they do paint, floors, concrete, and everything?  Or would he send different teams for the different jobs (ie., paint team, floor team, concrete/demo team)?

Also, would love any other suggestions for doing a T&M contract.  And I'd love some referrals for the L.A. area (just post or PM).  Thanks!

Dave Lee · Answer

Situation has now turned into a nightmare.

I learned that the team was charging me more hours than they were actually working (ie., arriving late but saying they arrived early).  It explains a lot of the slow work that was being done and the many delays.  Today the whole team didn't show up at all and I wasn't notified until the afternoon, and given the excuse that it was someone's "birthday".  They also broke a patio window and left the house open to the rain and possible thieves for 2 weeks without telling me.  The house is a mess right now without everything not completed, but I have no choice but to let this contractor go.  It puts me in a terrible situation where I need to fix everything, and also hire a new contractor.  I also have to re-issue permits and the city will make me pay for the re-issued permits.

Here's some initial lessons from this fiasco:

1. Avoid T&M contracts if at all possible, unless you can be at the site full-time supervising everything.

2. Check multiple references for the contractor and don't skip over this.

3. Don't feel rushed to find a contractor.  Rather, make it a priority and keep interviewing until you find someone you're really confident in.

Rob Cee · Answer

@Dave Lee how is your rehab coming along?  Did you hire a new contractor?

Min K. · Answer

@Dave Lee Sent you an email.  Above issue is not uncommon.

Dave Lee · Answer

Thanks, Min.  I found a contractor on this forum (Manolo D.) and have been working with him and his team for the past 2 weeks.  First week as okay.  This past week we had some delays and challenges.  Hopefully we can work it out.  But I can understand what you're saying about needing oversight and good management.  I think it can be tough to motivate a team to work hard if they're on a time contract and w/o good oversight.

Min K. · Answer

@Dave Lee

Dave,

If you are 2hours away from the jobsite, T&M would not be efficient for you.  As mentioned above, you will need to be there (or hire someone to supervise) to monitor daily activity and track hours.  On top of that, there will be a lot of paper work and yelling.  End result is probably going to be a disaster looking at the amount of scope you have there.  I'd recommend obtaining a bid with detailed breakdown and schedule. You can email me if you need help with construction management as I do this for my client/tenant all the time.

Thanks,

Min

Michael Boyer · Answer

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/7365/blog_post...

Here it is... a little trickier to find my older blog posts if not last 3 (from my view of profile, not sure what others). And I messaged you, too. Best of luck.. ( Also, Gary Ransone, The Contractor's Legal Kit is also great for forms, language and guidance, dated but informative).

Dave Lee · Answer

Thanks, Michael.  Can you post the link?

Michael Boyer · Answer

Dave, I have short blog post on time and materials or cost plus versus fixed priced agreements, including  the notion of a adding a possible upset price or not to exceed amount. It may be a good starting point. Best of luck.

Dave Lee · Answer

You're right. :)  It's basically a full rehab.  I'm hoping to find a good contractor so they won't drag it out w/T&M.  I've scoped out most everything already so that should help (ie., cabinets, floors, tiles, etc).

Dave Lee · Answer

Also, was wondering what to expect in terms of pricing for a T&M contract?  ie., 4 people for 7-10 days.