BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast

BiggerPockets Podcast 077: Negotiating Your Way to 1000 Wholetail Real Estate Deals with Michael Quarles

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Today on the BiggerPockets Podcast we are excited to welcome Michael Quarles to the show. Michael is an active investor coming out of California’s Central Valley who has done so many deals that he has lost count!

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His experience is diverse and includes developing, flipping and more, but today his primary strategy is what is known as "wholetailing" and today's show covers this strategy in detail!

Also, as a master negotiator, Michael breaks down the science of haggling a deal that both honors the seller and benefits the investor. This episode is so jammed-packed that you’ll finish feeling like you just graduated with a degree in negotiation!

You even get to walk away word-for-word scripts! You really don’t want to miss this one!

Read the Transcript

Click here to read the transcript.

Listen to The Show on iTunes

Click here to listen on iTunes.

Listen to the Podcast Here

In This Show, We Cover:

BiggerPockets Podcast _ Real Estate Investing and Wealth Building 9.42.11 AM

  • How Michael convinced a stranger to give him $200,000 in order to invest in real estate.
  • The complete breakdown of what wholetailing is and how to do it…
  • The 5 important question you HAVE to ask leads over the phone
  • Practical lesson in Neuro Linguistics – Complete with role playing!
  • The importance of  being ethical and taking care of people 
  • The peanut butter story…
  • The proper mindset behind negotiating
  • Getting over fear in order to take action
  • and much, much more!

Links Mentioned

Books Mentioned in the Show

Connect with Michael

Real strategies that work for real people seeking to build wealth through real estate investments. Co-hosted by Brandon Turner and David Greene, this podcast provides actionable advice from investo...
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    R Jenkins
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Well overdue interview Congrats
    Karen M.
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Negotiation? or…. manipulation? I’m halfway through listening to the sales tactics used, and while they are thoughtful and strategic, the goal here is not to “help” a seller, it is to “control” a seller. I feel a little sick. I once had a “friend” who had a massive sales background (who was constantly giving out commands and cues and playing the voice tricks and emotional ploys) and I have seen so many of these tactics played out, it’s always a sale, it’s always about making yourself look good, it’s always about what’s in it for the one doing the selling. I hear the words, this is “moral and honest”, and that’s a pitch, but I’m not buying it. I can’t live that. I feel these games and tactics with a desire to control people are fundamentally dishonest and wrong. Sorry. I know they are very effective, but I could never do this in order to take advantage of another person. Josh, you called it “voodoo”. You nailed it.
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hi Karen… I completely and thoroughly understand your perspective. And I must really suck at my communications skills as I certainly never want a seller or one of my peers to think I manipulate the seller in a negotiation. I find all of our opinions to be valuable, as collectively everyones opinion adds to the professionalism of our trade. Without the collective good we would not survive as an industry. I also absolutely believe that our ability to buy housing at a discount is paramount. It serves a larger greater good than the two sides involved. Let me apologize to you, what I was unsuccessful in presenting is the importance of communication and how some people will, because of their circumstance and behavioral patterns , never hear us until we present ourselves to them in a way to be heard by them. Mimicking, pacing, NLP, reinforcements, and listening skills are not from my perspective and use manipulative. They certainly could be used in a manipulative manner however I implore anyone who uses a skill set to take advantage of someone else not to. It is wrong in so many ways. Again, I respect your opinion and value its representation.
    Ron B.b
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Karen, When I listened to this podcast it made me feel the same way you do. I felt that he was using manipulative techniques and tactics to not guide the seller but to control them. The most apt description I could come up with was “smarmy”. It reminded me of talking to a used car salesman. Whenever I hear a person answering a question with a question it sounds like they are being dishonest. Admittedly I have used these techniques myself, on my children. That is exactly how he sounds when he is doing the mock negation with Brandon. As a parent would talk to their child. Now I understand Michael Q. has a business that is worth millions and that he has used these methods to build that business but so do used car salesmen and you don’t see people going out of their way to congratulate them on their manipulative tactics.
    JM
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Karen, with respect, you’re being a little harsh here. Sales “tactics” actually accomplish a few things: filter out those who are unmotivated to sell so you’re not wasting your time on them, and for those that are at least somewhat motivated, get them to move in the direction of taking action. There are no magic words in the universe that are going to hypnotize people and make them sell their house to you. If they don’t believe it’s a good deal, they’re not going to sell, period.
    Karen M.
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hey, I’ve got some important information for you — go get a pen and paper right now so you can write it down…. got it? Good!! (nods head). Good dog. Thatta boy. No, seriously, there was a lot of great content in the podcast and some very good motivation for people to pursue their real estate investing goals. However, some of the manipulation tactics described gross me out. I hope that starting a conversation about smart sales strategies vs. strategies that are dishonest or manipulative is useful for the community and that it helps people in the business. What do you feel is fair to your sellers? Would you draw any lines for behavior that is “over the line” of aggressiveness? Is there such a thing as going too far in your book? I get it, it’s all legal, there’s no lying, but… using tricks to get people to “follow’ you is well… tricky…. do you choose to call it effective communication, or something else? What’s your story that you’re telling yourself and living by?
    Juliet Evans Real Estate Professional from Jersey City, New Jersey
    Replied almost 5 years ago
    Karen– If in the end you win and the client wins, the way you opened their eyes seems irrelevant, doesn’t it. I am eternally grateful.
    Sachin Acharya from Dubai , Dubai
    Replied over 4 years ago
    I’m here to learn. And seeing both sides of an argument is one of the best way to learn. That’s the value these podcasts and the comments on them provide. @MICHAEL Q During one of your mock negotiations with Brandon, when he said 115 is his bottom, you said “so, what you are saying is, after everything that we have done today, you are saying that I have to take your money and go buy somebody else’s house?” I don’t understand how you will take Brandon’s money and buy somebody else’s house. Can you please explain that?
    Andy Mirza
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Funny that we listened to the same podcast but came to different conclusions. I felt that the things Michael talked about doing all came down to more effective communication. Yes, things were deliberate, intentional, and focused but they had to be “moral, ethical, and legal.” If one leads another in a conversation that ultimately ends up in a sale where both feel they’ve benefited, a win-win situation, how can that be wrong? I feel like I got a lot out of this and I appreciate Michael sharing his knowledge.
    Talal Pharoan
    Replied over 6 years ago
    If you have worked in sales, and I do not mean where you scan a barcode, you know that “value” is a moving target and that it isn’t the same for everyone. Real estate is one of the few markets the public interacts with where the price is always negotiable. It can price much higher or much lower than the owner realized; it is just the market. So how do you work with a public that has no experience in determining the value of the things they most commonly use outside of scanning a barcode? You talk, and you help them come to a conclusion they can live with. They choose to say yes, you help to lead them there because you know what to do with the value of the asset and they chose to ignore it.
    Karen M.
    Replied over 6 years ago
    This is the process I heard described. 1) have the uninformed owner “do you a favor” and make them try to figure out their own property value; and 2) work their numbers down three levels from where they started by “leading them” down your path of price reductions and letting them know through the body language when their answers are pleasing or not to you as a buyer. Also, 3) moving them toward same-day signing, and 4) delaying cash payout until later. I am sure that storytelling to make the seller feel like a real winner is part of the package — you won’t have realtors walking in on you while you are showering! — maybe that is the “value-add”. Maybe you’ll even let them in on a secret or two. Do you need a visual with that?
    Russell
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Terrific interview with one of the most influential persons in our industry. The takeaway for me is that it is important for the seller to understand the logic behind the numbers and its also important to connect with them so that they don’t decline the deal for extraneous issues, i.e. “I don’t like this person” or “I don’t understand what is going on here.” What works for me is just being transparent and logical. As long as we’re being genuine, I mean Michael’s style may be unique to him but there are some key principles here like: Take action, believe in yourself and your service, and make sure the seller is totally comfortable with the deal.
    Shane Woods
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Russell, what a great middle of the road, not taking sides, big picture take-away from this polarizing podcast. I could not agree with you more. The “smarmyness” may rub some the wrong way. I hate cheesey salesy pitchy style, but I don’t see that here. I don’t even see manipulation. Everyone is going to have their own pacing, style, and level of transparency with regard to the “let me buy your house” conversation, but the main ideas here are the same, no matter the delivery style: -Be confident in your product/service -Be genuine with regard to your intentions -Be friendly, helpful, and hopefully a “friend” to them in their time of need (this is NOT manipulation, it’s called relationship sales, and it should give you a GOOD feeling, not a smarmy one) -Make sure they fully understand the decreased value factors related to their property vs. what they feel it’s worth/asking price. -Ask questions/repeat their answers to ensure they really do understand what you’re trying to communicate to them. This is not manipulation or intimidation based on your response to their answers if your goal is to leave the closing table with BOTH parties feeling like they got what they needed. As MQ stated several times, if your motivation is to help them and not maniulate them into selling for way less than would be ethical, you can sleep well at night with nothing to worry about. And finally….something I JUST remembered today that I used to do correctly and have since been screwing up… The asking them to do the homework and then call you back when they know their asking price/what they think it’s worth is one of the best “motivation” qualifiers out there. And if your business is driven by that phone call, and your time is valuable to you…why waste your valuable time on non-leads. A seller that “just wants an offer” isn’t motivated, and therefore NOT a lead. My wife and I just participated in a time share sales pitch a few weeks ago, and the folks there used many of the tactics employed by MQ here, and lots more. I’m in sales, we both hate “smarmy” sales people, and NEITHER of us were uncomfortable or felt manipulated when those particular tactics MQ mentions were used. That being said, there were several moments they WERE manipulative, and borderline “smarmy” but they smiled and nodded so much ad talked so fast we almost missed it. My point is, none of the MQ tactics are “smarmy” in my book, compared to what the smarmy people do. His tactics are actually helpful to an uninformed seller when used appropriately. Simply describing a deliberate “Process” to the activity of successful seller education and negotiation is not manipulation in my opinion.
    Donna Jones
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Wow! What a great show. This show has truly motivated me and I’m so very excited to hear him talk about marketing. Please please please hurry and put the marketing podcast together. Thanks!
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Me Tooooooo!!!! I love buying houses and marketing. And I think that anyone who wants to experience prosperity should walk through the tumultuous doors of real estate and buy and sell some houses… Its friggin awesome… The best part isn’t what it can do for us but what we can do with what it does for us. When you can, and you will, walk into your grocery store and buy everyone groceries… By a car for someone taking the bus. Help a Girl Scout win the award for the most cookies sold even when you’re dieting. Watch the smile on a childs face when you buy mistletoe from her for a 100 bucks a ziplock baggie at Christmas. Anyway thank you for enjoying.. Michael
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Me Tooooooo!!!! I love buying houses and marketing. And I think that anyone who wants to experience prosperity should walk through the tumultuous doors of real estate and buy and sell some houses… Its friggin awesome… The best part isn’t what it can do for us but what we can do with what it does for us. When you can, and you will, walk into your grocery store and buy everyone groceries… By a car for someone taking the bus. Help a Girl Scout win the award for the most cookies sold even when you’re dieting. Watch the smile on a childs face when you buy mistletoe from her for a 100 bucks a ziplock baggie at Christmas. Anyway thank you for enjoying.. Michael
    Juliet Evans Real Estate Professional from Jersey City, New Jersey
    Replied almost 5 years ago
    Michael, You had me at helping the Girl Scout! Thank you for this excellent podcast about Negotiating. There’s so much here to cull from. I would advise all doubters to take from it what resonates with them and then move on to the next person, as you suggest you did. As a total “newbie,” please accept my sincere gratitude.
    Dakota Cooley
    Replied over 6 years ago
    NLP!! Worth studying. Didn’t think it would ever get brought up on the podcasts
    Nancy Brook
    Replied about 6 years ago
    Would be good to have a recommended book or audio for effective NLP im sales. I’m I’m sales in my day job and I have to say, the content and approach discussed is brilliant. Really inspiring for me.
    Christopher Ballard from Gastonia, NC
    Replied almost 2 years ago
    If you want to learn more about NLP pacing and modeling then read Anthony Robbins book Ultimate Power. You’ll be blown away
    Roberto Reyna
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Is this what happens to unsuspecting homeowners? Yes, help people in some way to solve their real estate financial situation, but not take advantage by manipulating them into doing something that is in your greater financial interest just so you make a profit. We are not in this to obtain a financial independence in this manner. We do this to try to solve perhaps their real estate financial situation. No,please do this right but not by obtaining a greater financial interest.
    Cody
    Replied over 6 years ago
    This was an awesome interview. Karen, this is not about manipulation. This is about sales. Michael’s view points, insight, and experience on this subject are simply amazing. What i took away from this are two main points. 1) If you do not have the confidence to do something you will never succeed and 2) You have to make someone believe in what you are doing and why you are doing it. Often times we find ourselves doubting our abilities, and if you can’t have enough confidence in yourself how can you ever expect someone else to have confidence in you. Thank you Michael, this was extremely inspiring and motivating.
    Juliet Evans Real Estate Professional from Jersey City, New Jersey
    Replied almost 5 years ago
    Cody– YOU ARE “SPOT ON!”
    Roberto Reyna
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Perhaps the subject is presented in a different light by the agenda the podcast follows and steered by some individuals. Often times what we say is highlighted with a different context, and presents us an unfavorable point of view towards others. At any rate we need to think about how and what we say regarding real estate transactions. I listen to all the podcast, but often times there is too much laughing and not enough seriousness.
    Roberto Reyna
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Perhaps the subject is presented in a different light by the agenda the podcast follows and steered by some individuals. Often times what we say is highlighted with a different context, and presents us an unfavorable point of view towards others. At any rate we need to think about how and what we say regarding real estate transactions. I listen to all the podcast, but often times there is too much laughing and not enough seriousness.
    Joshua Dorkin
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Roberto – This is not NPR, it is a podcast that contains the personalities of the hosts. We don’t get paid by our listeners to do it — we do it because we enjoy it and because we hope it will bring value to our listeners. I’m sorry you don’t like the jokes. We will continue to make them — without keeping it light for ourselves, I don’t think we’d manage to keep putting them out every week for our listeners to enjoy (most of them).
    Ben Millar
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I love the jokes. It helps me understand and feel that real people are investing in real estate. One of the biggest takeaways that I’ve gotten from the podcasts is that everyday people who simply have an incredible drive to succeed, can and are succeeding in real estate investing.
    Brad
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I always listen to the end hoping for some more vanilla ice!!
    Kevin Tran
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I love the jokes, and yes sometimes they are a little corny. However, it just makes it more real for me. It’s not one of those interviews where the guest is reading from a script, it’s unscripted and uncut. Because of this, I can relate to their stories and it’s motivates me. Thank you Josh, Brandon, and all the guests for making it possible. Here is a hint if you don’t like the jokes:” fast forward.” The choice is your.
    Phil Dwyer
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Being a former guest, I can say that having Josh and Brandon goofing around during the process is what made it the most fun for me. It’s a lot easier to be a candid guest when you’re having a good time.
    CJ Pilon
    Replied about 6 years ago
    As a new member I’ve listened to 12 or 15 of your podcasts, ranging from 1 to 83 in the last few weeks while I walk my dog.They are awesome! Don’t change a thing. You do a terrific job of relaxing your guests to get the most out of the interview, and digging beyond the first answer to get to a useful level of detail. Oh, the jokes are pretty pathetic, but you pull them off like Sonny and Cher =D
    Kevin Tran
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I love the jokes, and yes sometimes they are a little corny. However, it just makes it more real for me. It’s not one of those interviews where the guest is reading from a script, it’s unscripted and uncut. Because of this, I can relate to their stories and it’s motivates me. Thank you Josh, Brandon, and all the guests for making it possible. Here is a hint if you don’t like the jokes:” fast forward.” The choice is your.
    Lauren
    Replied over 6 years ago
    A subject that is not covered enough, I’ll tell you. Negotiation is the skill I lack the most. It was so helpful to listen to Michael discuss NLP, Pacing, Embedded Commands. Now I have something to “Google” and build upon. 🙂 To those who think this is immoral, dishonest, or mind control. Obviously non of you have worked in sales. I have an active direct mail campaign and make offers daily to sellers. Do you know how many sellers have wasted my time, asking me for free appraisals on their house? Have me so much as go to their house, take photos, make offers, then don’t even answer my calls after I’m done wasting 2 hours of my life I’ll never get back? If you have never done any of the above mentioned, then sure, you will never understand why having the upper hand in negotiation is crucial to not wasting your most valuable asset, time. You cannot make anyone motivated, period. So Michael’s communication techniques would not work if someone did not have a situation that would cause them to need a quick and easy sale. The bottom line is, when you get a hot seller on the phone who is full of motivation, its either going to be you, another investor, or a Realtor who will win their business. The Realtor promises a high price and that they have a list of buyers looking for “the exact same house.” And sometimes listing it with a Realtor is just not their best option. So who should win? The better negotiator. Applause to you Michael for sharing and being so candid with us!
    Melodee Lucido
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Right ON Lauren!! You said it straight!! Best of success to you.
    Shane Woods
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I sure wish I read this far down before I made my comment so long. Right on. You said much of what I did. Patience Fail. 🙂 Glad several of us understand the bigger picture more so than the apparent “manipulation”
    Derek B
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Awesome podcast with great information. Michael, thanks for taking your time and giving freely of information. Josh and Brandon – great job. The content may have gone deeper than some are comfortable. It’s worth repeating – this is not about seller manipulation. Michael does not manipulate everyone he talks to into selling him a house. What he is talking about is uncovering the real need and offering a solution to satisfy that need. If someone is motivated, it is not about the money. There is a deeper need and the successful salesman (in any industry) will uncover and satisfy that need. Michael, hope you are back soon for the followup podcast on marketing.
    Steve
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I would like ask Karen how many houses she’s purchased ? So many of these sellers are lost in the sauce when it comes to wanting a realistic price given their situation… What Michael is proposing is helping walking the seller down a path many are going to ultimately end up taking anyhow. There’s no gun to the sellers head and truth of the matter is many sellers still say no and won’t sell even after a compelling presentation.
    Dawn Anastasi
    Replied over 6 years ago
    One thing I didn’t understand from the beginning of the show was the story of the deposit check bouncing then building the duplex on the lot. If the deposit check bounced, and there wasn’t money to buy the property, how was their money to build a duplex on the lot?
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hi Dawn, On the first property I ran out of friends… And favors… Used up what little resource I could scrounge together and found enough funds to complete an ugly duplex however I made it through and sold it for profit. Paid back everyone and was set to attempt another one. Remember this was 30 plus years ago when material for building a duplex was very cheap. Couple the low cost of supplies and then factor in that I performed almost all of the sub contractor trades except for four. Plumbing, Electrical, Mechanical and Sheetrock tape and texture. It was very inexpensive to build. And I wasn’t building a palace. It was a set of 2/1 units with swamp colors and wall heaters. T1-11 siding and composition roof. Plastic shower/tub units and vinyl flooring in the bath and kitchen. I knew enough to save money on cost by making the rooms smaller than 12 feet and making the layout so when flipped the plumbing backed up to each other. I learned a bucket load on the first unit… I remember waking up in the middle ofthe night the night before we were set to hang the sheetrock and realising that I left out the telephone lines.
    Russell
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hi Michael, in regards to this strategy of listing houses as is I have a few questions. 1)Is there a teachable formula for determining as is value and/or is there a comprable method that you could substitute starting with ARV? 2) Is your offer basically what a rehabber would give or do you still need that extra cushion that a wholesaler needs? 3) And finally, what pitfalls would you point out to someone attempting to use this strategy? Do certain houses or markets not work, is there something that could bite the new investor that might not be obvious? Thanks!
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hi Russell Determining the As Is value may be easier than you think. The recent comparable sales of properties purchased will show you the list of the houses bought As Is which needs(ed) massive repair and those needing no repair. I make certain by investigating the recent properties transactions to determine which properties is being bought and sold and by whom. Was the buyer an investor or user? How long before a property sold had it sold before. What did it sale for. What was the condition of the property on the first sale as it compares to the second sale. Then I look at listed property to determine what the neighborhoods buyer requirements are and what value those requirements have on the sales price. And most importantly if the buyer pool even requires modification to a property. What I am looking for is three like type properties in the same condition as my subject. Within 5 years of age, 200 square feet up or down, like type construction, and same bed//baths within a 1/4 mile. If I find three then I can figure an As Is value. If I cant find three and rarely I can’t as I buy crap which is where we investors play. However if I can’t three then I do exactly what an appraiser does by adding and subtracting value based upon the condition of the subject property as it compares to the recent three sold properties.. When you pull comps for a home the as is transactions pop off the page… Most of the time you can see them immediately. Signs of an As Is sale are properties held in LLC/Corp/Trust and haven’t been resold and may be on the market at a higher value or have been resold at a much higher value. Its always important to have a conversation with recent sale buyers in the areas you buy in so that you understand the seller concessions. Without knowing the concessions you wont know the true sales price. Which is extremely important when negotiating with the seller.. They may know that a comparable home sold for 100k around the corner but were unaware of the concessions paid to the buyer. Things like financing concessions, upgrade concessions, length on market concession, Realtor concessions and so on. All concessions lower the value of the subject property. I never have an issue showing a seller what their home could fetch on the open market because they cant sell it that way for whatever reason. And my intention is to buy based upon the lowest possible value… So if two of my comps support a higher value yet the third doesnt i use the third. It is safer for me. Although buying at 50 cents is fairly safe. So once I determine the As Is value, BTW that determination is very fast, I now know what I would accept as an offer from the seller. I have found that buying As IS and selling As IS is the easiest form of investing that I have done to date. When I contract the property instantly goes onto the MLS and starts the cycle of selling. Because it usually is the lowest property on the market it goes fairly quick. Selling As IS has really helped my average Days After Contract. These are cash deals and low cost deals.. most of the time the property has a bucketload of equity in it for both the seller and myself and we both win. I hope that helped and as I was typing realized that it is a huge topic…
    Russell
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Thank you Michael
    Jerry B.
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Michael, Amazing show! I’ve listened to it twice already… I couldn’t agree more that you only increase your skills by practicing. That said, I’m in serious need of marketing help! I have so many questions, so I’ll start with what I think is most important. I’ve visited your site and even gotten samples of the mail pieces; which ones are most effective in your experience?
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Jerry B – I am sorry… Three hours of listening to my voice would be punishment for most people. As for your question… That’s a huge question and without knowing a little about what your wanting to accomplish and what systems are in place for lead capture its difficult for me to just blurt out things to do.. Hopefully they will have me back sooner than later. In the mean time, as I said on the Podcast you are welcome to give me a call at the office to go over a marketing program.
    Jerry B.
    Replied over 6 years ago
    That’s awesomely generous of you. I certainly will take you up on the offer; thank you very much.
    Michael
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hi Michael, You mentioned that you start marketing the property as soon as the seller signs the contract by putting it on the MLS. I have a few questions regarding this. 1. Have you ever had an issue when the seller found out how much you were reselling the house for before closing? 2. What if the seller asked to be paid within 3 weeks from the day of the contract being executed and you haven’t sold the house using the MLS within this timeframe. Are you closing with your own cash? 3. As you mentioned in the podcast, most motivated sellers do not want to have strangers walking into their home. Since you are listing the property on the MLS, how are you overcoming this issue when it comes to showings? 4. Does this strategy violate your duties as a broker in any way? I hope I didn’t misunderstand what was said on the podcast but I have never heard of anyone using this strategy before. Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer my questions.
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    See reply below…
    Zaid
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Michael, First of all congrats on your success, and thank you for sharing your thoughts/process in this podcast. I am looking forward to your future marketing podcast (esp since I’m a happy customer of your company yellowletters.com) I always ask the sellers that call me (what’s the least you can sell me your house for?) and sometimes I get an answer like (I don’t know, you’re the expert) Any recommendations on how to handle this? I’m also curious as to how many mailers you send a month (if you’re willing to share this)? Thanks again –
    Alex
    Replied over 6 years ago
    While I enjoyed the podcast and the information shared generally, I had the same reaction as Karen to the “nlp, mimicking, embedded commands” aspects. This simply sounds like a hard sell, marginally “ethical, moral, and legal”, tactic/manipulation to persuade a vulnerable seller, to part with a more than reasonable amount of his or her equity in a piece or real estate.
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Michael I have had only one seller become frustrated that I was reselling the property for 60K +- or more. However he wasn’t frustrated long especially when I reminded him that my expectation was a gamble and his sales price with me was a sure thing… I had a little more negotiating to do. I always put a sign and flyer box in the yard with and the flyer has a resale price and I completely disclose the fact that I am reselling for a HUGE profit within my agreement. If anyone wants to read my contract look under my profile for a link. I think honesty with the seller is paramount. There are all kinds of ways to close a transaction and cash to the seller is the most expensive for them. If that is what they want then they get less cash. We alway must mitigate any costs with a lower purchase price. And cash cost money whether its our own or borrowed. All listing and offer acceptances are subject to two things. 1) Seller obtaining title and 2) Subject to interior inspection… Because I sell at 100% of as is value I rarely have anyone care about what the property looks like. I never have agency with the seller. It is very clear in my agreement to purchase that I do not however in a shortsale situation I also have them sign a specific form that removes any possibility of agency. Its one of the really brilliant rules set by NAR with a ton of wisdom is that they specifically require the seller to approve the insertion of the listing into the MLS and specifically do not describe the seller as the constructive owner.. This allows a seller with equatable interest to list property. This right goes all the way back to when exchanges were a large part of the mls…
    Graham K. Real Estate Investor from Oakland, California
    Replied almost 6 years ago
    Hey Michael, thanks for your valuable contribution. I’m hanging on your every word. Above, you mentioned you would post a link to your contract in your profile, but I don’t see it. Are you still willing to share it? Maybe privately? 😉 I am also in California so it would be a great resource for me. Cheers
    Greg Jackson
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Mike, Should I get Skippy or Jif? P.S. You could have an Air Force pension by now! .. oh wait … 😀
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    My Dogs and I like Creamy… Doesnt matter what brand as long as it isnt an off brand or weird like almond butter… YUCK. And a military career is extremely admirable. My son is a Naval Officer and enjoying himself flying airplanes. It is very cool that people sacrifice themselves for our nation. Reply Report comment
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    My Dogs and I like Creamy… Doesnt matter what brand as long as it isnt an off brand or weird like almond butter… YUCK. And a military career is extremely admirable. My son is a Naval Officer and enjoying himself flying airplanes. It is very cool that people sacrifice themselves for our nation.
    Greg Jackson
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Re. Creamy … lol Have a great weekend!
    Roberto Reyna
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I too am a veteran of the military. We are above average patriotic citizens who love this country very much, always appreciate the many freedoms we have in this country because of people like us who gladly defend your right to live free.
    Justin K. from Mount Prospect, Illinois
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hi Michael, Thank you for the great podcast! One of the greatest benefits you offer seems to be the all cash offer. How does your system translate for someone who doesn’t have the cash and is either relying on seller financing, wholesaling or least optioning the property? Thank you! Justin
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Good Morning Justin… From a lease option perspective negotiation changes due to the required needs on the seller by the Investor however seller financing and wholesaling don’t change much. Especially wholesaling.. Seller financing will be granted IMHO about 25% of the time it is asked for and some of the no answers will convert to seller financing during the escrow period to purchase. During the negotiation with the seller we should determine what the seller is going to do with the funds and if the funds are remaining liquid, If so then begin the negotiation of seller financing. And you should not wholesale a deal you can buy at 50-60% of as is value.
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Good Morning Justin… From a lease option perspective negotiation changes due to the required needs on the seller by the Investor however seller financing and wholesaling don’t change much. Especially wholesaling.. Seller financing will be granted IMHO about 25% of the time it is asked for and some of the no answers will convert to seller financing during the escrow period to purchase. During the negotiation with the seller we should determine what the seller is going to do with the funds and if the funds are remaining liquid, If so then begin the negotiation of seller financing. And you should not wholesale a deal you can buy at 50-60% of as is value. Reply Report comment
    Patrick
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Great interview! Absolutely loved the information.
    luther
    Replied over 6 years ago
    @MichaelQ, Excellent Podcast. I am in sales at my day job and what you teach can be applied there just as much in my real estate investment business. Can you please provide a step by step of what you do? The fact that you sell at 100% of ARV keeps throwing me off and no amount of re listening of the podcast seems to be clearing up. Thank you Sir, Luther M
    Melodee Lucido
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hey Guys, Awesome & Amazing. Really. It cracks me up (and kinda annoys) that some people want the podcast to be all serious—like it’s brain surgery or something. This business has it’s serious side but I always get ready for giggles when I’m about to listen to a BP podcast; I have my smile all ready and can’t wait to cash it in. This one was hilarious! The comments about Michael and manipulation remind me of when I was first in the biz. I was all about the “poor souls” that needed a friend and help. Now, after having dealt with so many sellers that wanted to manipulate and trick me I am happy to “lead them”. I am actually doing them a favor. I am saving them time and helping them to step into reality—a place that most sellers I talk to have never been to. I am clear that my weakest skill in this biz is negotiation. It annoys me often. Brandon, thanks for just being you and being real. Michael, I can’t even tell you how much I got out of this episode. I’m going to listen again and can’t wait for the next time you are featured. I will always remember this podcast as I am “practicing”. Thanks guys!
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Thank you for laughing with us (or at me)…. I had fun too… I cant wait for the Vanilla Ice version of Josh Josh Baby, and Brandon can close by singing the podcasts out singing Yo, man, let’s get out of here! Word to your mother! Josh Josh Baby Too cold, Josh Josh Baby Too cold Too cold Josh Josh Baby Too cold Too cold,Josh Josh Baby Too cold Too cold
    Brandon Turner
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Hahaha Michael… speaking of that… have you seen this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtmdjGVxs_0
    Melodee Lucido
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Michael I forgot to ask about your books I heard you have a good sub2 book. I didn’t see you on Amazon. Please share.
    Ervin Taylor
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Great job, this was one of the best shows I have ever listened to. I would like to tell you guys keep up the good work. I am learning so much and I really appreciate the insight I was given in this show and the show. Wonderful insight to Negotiations, you guys much have Michael back on immediately there were so many things I am interested to here him elaborate on. Especially the tools he utilize in marketing. Great show again…
    Brandon Turner
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Thanks Ervin! We appreciate that! And we’ll definitely have him back on soon 🙂
    Fred
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Very enjoyable podcast. Yes it had me squirming in places but to be honest it was nice to be “listening in” and not be on the receiving end of some of these sales tactics. I could totally relate to Brandon as he got beaten down on price. I think it takes a certain personality to successfully use the tactics mentioned and I am not sure if I could “pace” someone but I could certainly benefit from asking someone a few times if they could do better on price and if that is the lowest they could sell for. Knowing when to keep quiet can be a useful knowledge. This is definitely one I will be listening to more than once.
    Phil Dwyer
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Michael thanks for sharing your techniques. I went through a NLP training course a couple of years ago, and found it very interesting. I’m looking forward to the next podcast with your marketing insights.
    Greg Tregre
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Just finished the podcast today and WOW what a great show. Really liked the role play and particularly enjoyed the perspective of providing service to sellers that for one reason or another cannot go the traditional route to sell their home. Like Josh, I never considered negotiation to be my best skill, but I can see where the techniques discussed can keep the negotiation focused to reach a conclusion that is good for everyone. Great job all around.
    Zachary Durland
    Replied over 6 years ago
    It think that each of us is afraid of ever having to be a seller in this situation and we project that fear-turned-disgust onto Michael. We should remember that mastering ourselves is paramount to our success. During the podcast, I felt a little creeped out because I felt like I was being spoken to by Michael, and thus, I was being sold to, which I hate in general. When I gained control of my feelings again, I was able to process the fact that Michael has a business model, criteria, and solutions fit for a certain crowd. Perhaps, until we are in such a situation, it’s tough to draw the lines of ethics and business. Now, if I were to turn an unmotivated seller in a motivated seller using these techniques, I would be unethically creating a scenario in which I would profit, taking advantage of someone who had not needed such services as Michael’s. But, if said person were truly a motivated seller before even contacting me, I would feel free to engage with that person, using these techniques to make myself heard and educate the seller about what I do, why, and why they called me in he the first place. If during the conversation they discover that this wasn’t at all what they thought they were meeting to discuss, they should end negotiations. Now, I understand that some folks cant just say no like we may be able to, so it’s at this point that we have to recognize that they’re agreement may be a result of unfair pressuring on our part. And if I remember correctly, Michael asked one seller to have her son come out to get involved, for which he was thanked. To sum up, like anything else, WE have to take responsibility for our own actions and put forth an ethical foot, rather than employ methods blindly as they exist.
    Tom & Roni Keith
    Replied over 6 years ago
    Great Show Guys! Thanks Michael for Your Service to this wonderful world of Real Estate Investment.
    Ariel Cohen
    Replied over 6 years ago
    I enjoyed the show a lot but also felt like the role playing was a little like a time share sales call. I guess the “negotiation” part is very direct and blunt which is probably what makes it effective. I need to pick up a book on Neuro Linguistics to learn more about these techniques to be able to practice. For me the most motivating part about this Podcast was hearing how your first deal was done. Shows that you don’t have to “know everything” to get started as a successful investor.
    Michael Q
    Replied over 6 years ago
    What is very difficult to do when role playing is for someone who is listening to hear all of the other conversation that is conversed. All of the small talk and like minded references. The other thing you cannot here is the visual of the seller who in most occassions starts becoming less afraid and transitions into a very peaceful and grateful state. When these sellers learn that their problem is being taken away and that I have removed the burden and stress they have felt trying to hold on they become extremely happy.
    Ariel Cohen
    Replied over 6 years ago
    After you ask the five questions and you get the right answers, do you then go on to more detailed questions? When are you determining the value of the house? While on the phone with the caller or do you call them back after researching the value? On the podcast you mentioned that you setup a visit at the property to buy the house. I am just trying to figure out the sequence of events… if you decide you want to buy the house at their offer price on the initial call and set up the meeting right away.
    Michael Q
    Replied about 6 years ago
    If they answer the questions correctly then we do go into the full script. Afterwards we do our review of their numbers and call them back to “Confirm” the appointment that we have made.
    Keith Agnello
    Replied about 6 years ago
    Thanks Mike for taking the time and doing this podcast as well as for all of your contributions in the forums. You are a constant inspiration with your willingness to share your wealth of knowledge in real estate. Really great stuff! Two questions I have after listening to this episode: I have an absentee list and you mentioned that you target the bottom two-thirds of the median sales price of the areas you market to, can I use the assessed value on my list to filter it down and mail to hopefully more motivated potential seller? Also, do you need a license in California to wholetail? Thanks again! Keith
    Michael Q
    Replied about 6 years ago
    Hi keith… Yes use the Accessor Data.. As for wholesaling after constructive notice NO however if you define wholesaling as assigning the contract then in California you’re limited to 8 times a year.
    Michael Dorovich
    Replied about 6 years ago
    I haven’t heard the sales part yet, only 15 minutes in, but you have to love the story of someone going out and building the thing and everything else falling into place. ‘Do the thing and you have the power.’ And the guy who lent you the materials saw that you could build, so he lent you the money. This is the way it should be. You gotta love business working on a handshake, vs. approval from a half dozen people who push paper. Someone who knows how to build going into real estate – it makes too much sense vs. all the ‘strategies’ taught to people with no experience these days. From my experience, people who know how to build things tend to be very matter of fact and practical or direct, and this may be what was coming across in the sales techniques, will have to hear them to know. But at some point it has to come down to I want X, you have Y, and Z has to happen to get there. Love it so far, thanks Michael!
    Chris Reed
    Replied about 6 years ago
    Loved the podcast Michael! I am catching up on podcasts and cannot wait to hear your next one on marketing and any other information I can soak up from you. I enjoy the tone of your personality and it would be a joy to connect someday! I am currently working overseas as a government contractor but I am aching to return to a “normal” life with my wife and children. I was planning on quitting my job and starting a business as a real estate agent in order to pay the bills (we have very low expenses) and imbed myself more in the real estate investing community. What do you think about becoming an agent for this purpose? It sounded like you do not recommend becoming an agent in the capacity of a “job”. I am looking for a source of income that will pay my monthly expenses and also give me the flexibility, experience and knowledge to build my real estate investing business. Thanks again for your contribution of this podcast for all of us! Chris.
    Todd Michael
    Replied about 6 years ago
    Brandon & Josh, I love the podcasts… just now getting to podcast 77. Love the humor and focus on integrity. Looking forward to listening to the rest of the podcasts. For this podcast, I think it would have been good to also discuss the moral hazards of manipulating sellers for profit. I know it’s a grey area and everyone has their own perspective, but this podcast didn’t seem to fit with the culture of integrity that BP has successfully built. Again, love the podcasts, I just hope we don’t build an army of folks with NLP skills selling to those more easily manipulated.
    Deshan Kennedy Real Estate Agent from Fredericksburg, VA
    Replied over 5 years ago
    What a great podcast! Thank you for sharing some of selling tips!
    Adrian St. John from Brooklyn, New York
    Replied over 5 years ago
    This has been added to my list of podcast to listen to over and over. As I told my friend this one needs to be reviewed monthly until we know that we know! Thank You!!
    Patrick Ketchum Entrepreneur from Provo, Utah
    Replied over 5 years ago
    Michael, awesome show. First time I’ve listened to a show twice. What do you drive to your appointments? I imagine you’re not showing up in your Mercedes? Also, do you wear business casual? Maybe it depends on the kind of homes your visiting, but I imagine your mostly in blue collar neighborhoods. Thanks again.
    Kimberly H. Residential Real Estate Broker from Chicago Suburbs, Illinois
    Replied over 4 years ago
    Michael, I just heard this podcast for the first time and learned *so* much, I had never heard of NPL or those terms you are using. I am interested in learning more!
    Ricardo Cortes from Dallas, Texas
    Replied over 4 years ago
    So I just listened, to Mike’s podcast, and read some of the comments. Majority of them negative. I just see him as an aggressive, and determined. What works form him may not work for others, which is the case with some of the comments. What I am taking a way from the podcast, take elements form his technique and tweek them to suit your sales style. I don’t think he is manipulating the seller, like Michael said, he’s never bought a property whom the seller didn’t agree on a price, My one question is, Why do you ask for seller financing in these situations, what is the exit strategy? Does Mike use the sellers money to buy the property?
    Pradeep Tiwari from Bellevue, WA
    Replied about 4 years ago
    It`s just awesome and proving that you live ethically, morally again reinforces it to me that people are out their and practice it. having been ditched out twice in business startups I thought that people doesn`t`t follow it anymore. I recommend- this podcast to be included in the UBG. and could be the one thing to listen for every beginner so that they start with right mindset. @brandon ? thanks Mike for live the phrase “A great responsibility comes with bigger power”.. I solute you !
    Agnes Kamau from Gaithersburg, MD
    Replied over 3 years ago
    Amazing podcast! Thanks Michael.
    Dan G. Developer from Spokane, WA
    Replied about 3 years ago
    Tremendous negotiating skills presented here. In any interaction when two humans come together, their two frames collide and one always dominates. It is either you or the other person. Oren Klaff goes over this in detail in his book: Pitch Anything. Thanks for sharing, Michael. If any of you want more like it, check out his podcast.
    Dan Cotter Developer from Atlanta, GA
    Replied about 3 years ago
    Michael, thanks for both of your excellent podcasts and for helping people out so much on the forums! If you were starting with $15 to $20K in the bank, how would you finance your first few transactions? I’m in Atlanta (median sale price about $280K) and I like the FHA house-hacking idea (or maybe an FHA 203K rehab loan for a duplex conversion because multi-units are so overpriced here)… At any rate, most of the motivated seller approaches I’ve seen rely on a quick cash closing to solve the seller’s immediate need to sell, to justify paying 50, 60, 70 cents on the dollar. I’m having trouble wrapping my head around what kind of a seller to target who wouldn’t be deterred by an FHA financing contingency and all the red tape that comes with it. If I can’t figure that out I’m thinking maybe lease options or doing John Fedro’s mobile home mentoring program (which looks pretty awesome) to build up my cash… Am I over-thinking this? Would you just start marketing until you find that 1-in-4 person who will do seller financing, and wholesale any other deals you find in the meantime?
    Dan Cotter Developer from Atlanta, GA
    Replied about 3 years ago
    Typo correction: $285K is metro Atlanta’s median price for new homes (at +/- 2,850 SF). Resales are about $207K for 2,040 SF ($217K if you exclude REOs).
    Don Spafford Investor from Idaho Falls, ID
    Replied about 3 years ago
    Dude! I love this podcast. Tons of great information and actionable items. I had been putting off getting cards made but he’s right. If you don’t believe it, you won’t succeed. When people ask what I do I usually start telling them about how I work from home with my job AND that I am getting started in REI. But I should instead just answer with I’m a real esta
    Don Spafford Investor from Idaho Falls, ID
    Replied about 3 years ago
    Sorry, accidentally hit enter. …I’m a real estate investor. Then if they follow up with stuff somewhere in the conversation I could say I still have a side job that I do until I can fully transition to full time REI. Not treat the REI as the side hustle. That way when people think about you, they think “oh, Don, he’s a real estate investor. He can help you, you should call him.” That will then hopefully bring you more leads. Thanks Michael Q for confirming this and using your Jedi mind trick techniques to get me to come to the side of the force.
    Frank S. Specialist from Chicago, IL
    Replied almost 3 years ago
    In order to betray someone, firts earn their trust. This is the second time I listened to this podcast and took great notes. The podcast has many interesting points. He is an expert and excellent at what he does. No doubts. It’s impressive. My take on the overall podcast. I bet all the stories, from McDonald’s, check without funds, buying young, the older man sponsor, and up to the peanut butter are fake. He may be allergic to peanut butter, which is part of his charm. The stories are engineered to build trust. His classes are probably full of engineered stories to deceive the seller according to their needs and ignorance. They’re probably full of great fundamentals, too. No doubt about that. My personal opinion is that these techniques are borderline unethical and dishonest, although legal. I’ll research more from his podcasts. They certainly have good info. We all need good negotiation skills. Thanks for a great show,