Mobile Homes

4 Key Lessons Learned From Investing in Mobile Homes

Expertise: Personal Development, Commercial Real Estate, Real Estate News & Commentary, Landlording & Rental Properties
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Caravan and camping, static home aerial view. Porthmadog holiday

Do you dare invest in mobile home parks?

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If not… why not?

Mobile home parks, aka manufactured housing communities, are among the most stable and profitable asset classes in America. And unlike multifamily, where I had planned to invest for the rest of my life, manufactured housing is still “a little bit undiscovered.”

I’m entering my third decade of real estate investing later this year, and I have had four brushes with manufactured housing. One produced zero results, and the second was a disaster. The third produced minimal results, and I thought that would be my last go-round in this sector.

But our firm has invested millions into mobile home parks in the past few years, and we couldn't be happier. We have discovered a hidden jewel in the commercial real estate realm, and we, along with our friends and investors, are reaping massive rewards in the form of income, appreciation, and tax benefits.

But there are many ways to mess this up. Though I’ve written elsewhere about why I love this sector, today I want to talk about how this could go wrong.

I’m going to give you a brief tour of my four brushes with manufactured housing investing with the hope that you can avoid my mistakes and enjoy the awesome benefits of this powerful asset class. Then, I’ll tell you why I love mobile home parks.

mobile-home-surprises

Experience 1: Pure Ignorance

My mama always told me to stay away from trailer parks. Did yours?

She told me nothing good happens there. I think I even heard her use the word “trailer trash.” (I’m not proud of that.)

My dear mother and father passed away several years ago. And after a lifetime of working hard at a well-paying job, Dad left us about enough money to cover their funerals—along with some hefty credit card bills.

I’m grateful for the life they gave me. But my parents weren’t great investors. In fact, they knew nothing about investing. And this was a handicap to me—especially when I made my first few million dollars at age 33.

I knew nothing about investing. And as a result, I confused investing with speculating. I launched into several years of binge-speculating (though I told people I was “an investor”). And it cost me dearly.

 

I actually had a chance to invest in a mobile home park back in those days. I swiftly turned my nose up at that opportunity. And I can imagine that you might have the same reaction.

Though I don’t know if I would have had the humility to listen in my mid-thirties, I wish I would have had access to the wisdom of Robert Helms from The Real Estate Guys. Robert said, “Live where you want… and invest where it makes sense.”

Please don’t ignore this powerful asset class. Warren Buffett and Sam Zell, two of the top investors of all time, can’t be wrong.

A Wall Street Journal article published just a few weeks ago details how Sam Zell's stock grew at over 1,200% since the recession, and another mobile home park company, Sun Communities, actually grew at 4,100%. (I like the subtitle. See below.)

 

Experience 2: Investing in Individual Mobile Homes

I can’t tell you how badly this went for me. When I look back on my years of real estate investing and think of my worst mistakes, three mobile home investments top the list. These were some of the impetus for co-launching our How to Lose Money podcast over three years ago.

Though there are exceptions, trailer tenants are some of the more difficult tenants out there. Every single mobile home park investor I know avoids owning individual mobile homes. There is no end to the stories I could tell you from my experiences. And I hear the same thing from top industry pros.

Owning and renting out mobile homes makes a ton of sense on paper, but that’s where it stops. Don’t be fooled into believing otherwise.

Almost all successful mobile home park investors own and operate the dirt and infrastructure of the park. And that’s the way they want to keep it. When they “inherit” an abandoned trailer or acquire a park-owned home with a park acquisition, most want to sell it to the tenants as quickly as possible.

And thanks to our friend Warren Buffett and Berkshire Hathaway’s 21st Mortgage Corporation, it’s easier than ever to get financing for tenants who want to make these rented homes into owned homes. The boundless enthusiasm of the nation’s top real estate investor, Sam Zell, has made financing more widely available, as well.

Mobile homes are also the only asset (to my knowledge) that can be financed for purchase through Section 8. Did you know that?

Related: The Investor’s Guide to Mobile Home Licenses

Experience 3: Building Modular Homes

Manufactured housing falls into at least three categories:

  1. Mobile homes
  2. Recreational vehicles (RVs)
  3. Modular homes

I am actually a fan of the last category. Modular homes are homes that are built to stick-built (site-constructed) standards, but they are pre-assembled in factories and set up onsite. There are many advantages to this type of construction.

This was especially advantageous to a real estate investor (me) who did not have a construction background. It limited my risk, time, and hassle in constructing new homes. And I built about seven of these in the early part of the century (I still love saying that). I made money on each one (contrasting with losing tens of thousands on one of the two ground-up construction homes I built).

I hear your question coming: “Wait. So why was this a mistake?”

Sometimes investments don’t have to lose money to be a mistake. If I told you I was “investing” in my savings account at under 1% interest, would you call that a mistake right now? I hope so.

The modular home saga included a lot of drama and hassle, and it was never as profitable as predicted on paper. And most importantly, compared to where I am now, I wasn’t building real wealth. I was just trading hours and effort for dollars. And I wasn’t obtaining the powerful tax-saving strategies available to commercial real estate investors.

Mobile Home Modular Home Manufactured Home

Experience 4: Passively Investing

My firm, joined by a growing tribe of friends and investors, vets best-in-class operators in the mobile home (and self-storage) space and invests heavily with them. And we couldn’t be happier. We are enjoying the fruits of a wonderful asset class without the hassle and risk of operating the assets ourselves. This is my favorite investing strategy.

Why Mobile Home Parks?

I’ve already written about this, and I’ll do so again soon. Here is a list of why we love this asset class:

  • Recession-resistant (steady through the last downturn)
  • Shrinking supply, increasing demand
  • Tenants that rarely leave
  • Low and predictable maintenance and capital expenses
  • Limited need for contractors
  • Tenants are joint stakeholders with park owners
  • Stigma of mobile home park investing leads to lower competition
  • Great financing options
  • Surprising tax benefits
  • Mom-and-pop owners aging out and selling underperforming properties
  • Hungry institutional investors who want to write large checks (the benefit of assembling a stabilized portfolio)

Are you ready to invest in mobile home parks?

Our own Brandon Turner has joined Sam Zell and Warren Buffett to build his future around this powerful asset class. If you want to learn more, look out for the new book I’m writing on self-storage investing to be published by BiggerPockets.

Related: 10 Tips for New Mobile Home Investors From Active Mobile Home Investors

Have you let the trailer park stigma keep you out of this recession-resistant asset class or are you all-in on mobile home parks? 

Let us know your opinion in the comments.

After graduating with an engineering degree and then an MBA from Ohio State, Paul entered the management development track at Ford Motor Company in Detroit. After five years, he departed to start a staffing company with a partner. Along the way, Paul was a finalist for Ernst & Young’s Michigan Entrepreneur of the Year two years straight (1996 & 1997). They scaled and sold the company to a publicly-traded firm five years later. After a brief “retirement,” Paul began investing in real estate in 2000 to protect and grow his own wealth. He completed over 85 real estate investments and exits, appeared on HGTV’s House Hunters, rehabbed and managed dozens of rental properties, built a number of new homes, developed a subdivision, and started two successful online real estate marketing firms. Three successful real estate developments, including assisting with the development of a Hyatt hotel and a very successful multifamily project, convinced him of the power of commercial real estate. Paul co-hosts a wealth-building podcast called How to Lose Money and is a frequent contributor to BiggerPockets, producing live video and blog content on a weekly basis. Paul is the author of "The Perfect Investment—Create Enduring Wealth from the Historic Shift to Multifamily Housing" (2016) and a forthcoming BiggerPockets book called "Storing Up Profits - Capitalize on American's Obsession with Stuff by Investing in Self-Storage." Paul is the Managing Partner at Wellings Capital, a commercial real estate investment firm. Paul is offering free e-books on Self-Storage and Mobile Home Parks here.
    Jordan Moorhead Real Estate Agent from Austin, TX
    Replied 9 months ago
    The strategy is very interesting to me! I'm heavily looking for one that I can own the lots and rent them to TOH currently. Too many of them have so many POH.
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 9 months ago
    Jordan, Yes, that is the best strategy in my opinion. Sometimes park owned homes can be sold to tenants along the way.
    Wenda Kennedy JD from Nikiski, Alaska
    Replied 9 months ago
    I own a mobile home park that I personally manage. I own all except for one of the mobile homes. I rent them out. You're right. They are hard to manage. The tenants are sometimes a headache and those units take a lot of maintenance. Why would I make that choice? The laws have changed. I can't evict someone who owns a mobile here without something happening that is really radical. And there's a heavy legal burden of proof on me when I do go to court. The only real sure bet in court is IF they don't pay their space rent -- regardless of their bad behavior. So, I have chosen to have a group of good rentals with almost no vacancy factor. I'm part of a landlord's association and I used to the "family joke" in the group. My park was considered to be a totally inferior investment -- "trailer trash" -- I was a "slum lord" regardless of how nice my park was maintained. Now, with the current financial crisis and the changes in the real estate market, I have an elevated position. Go figure.
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 9 months ago
    Wenda. Go figure! Wow, you've gone a different and braver route than most. I'm glad you stuck out the jokes. Who's laughing now? It's great to hear of your success.
    Lorenzo Martinez Rental Property Investor from San Antonio, TX
    Replied 9 months ago
    How does selling to a tenant work? I currently live in a mobile home and haven't been able to figure out how to get equity out of it. Its owned free and clear. Was thinking of selling it rent to own could that work or is that too much of a pita?
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 9 months ago
    Hey Lorenzo. You can draw up a rent-to-own contract or a better, separate rental and purchase contract. Shouldn't be too hard. I know TX is unique in some of their rules on rent-to-own, but I'm sure you can do it. You may want to visit your local REIA to get some advice and possibly sample contracts. Good luck!
    Lorenzo Martinez Rental Property Investor from San Antonio, TX
    Replied 9 months ago
    Thanks, Paul.
    Joe Joergens
    Replied 9 months ago
    I purchased a manufacturer home, the worst mistake in my live. You may own the house but you dont own the land, parks are not kept up, land rent if almost $600 per month. Mortgage $750. We are not allowed to rent our own house out, because the park community will not allow it. If you are late with the land rent, they threaten to take you to court and try to evict you. No fences allowed. Please Do Not keep up with their home's making it look like a true trailer park. If you don't own the land the park community has the right to do whatever they feel like. No accountability to where the monthly land rent is being spent. Long story, I'm purchasing a piece of property and taking my home with me..Please don't make this mistake, no value in trailer parks... Stay far away.....
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 9 months ago
    Joe, Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. It sounds like you're making a good move. Please take the time to screen your tenant and don't necessarily take the first tenant you meet!
    Mary Suskel
    Replied 9 months ago
    It's really sad when people want to profit off of people's basic needs such as food and shelter there's a reason low income housing exists it's for people who can't afford much and yet people want to profit off of that and then criticized the people that they profit off of I'm not going to feel sorry for any park owner especially corporations I've known Park owners who have had excellent tendance and you have treated their tenants in an excellent manner most people who complain who rent to people who are poor don't want to accept the fact that they have a responsibility to them so so just stop your whining and think about some actual hard work in regards to earning money rather than looking for an easy income
    John C. Investor from New York, NY
    Replied 9 months ago
    Hi Mary, I don’t think Paul is complaining here. He is here to share his experiences and hopefully recruit some new investors. We live in a capitalist country. Those who risk their capital need to make a profit. There’s nothing wrong with that. And there’s no indication that Paul and his company are ripping their tenants off. Any good landlord would provide decent housing and treat their tenants with respect. In exchange, the landlord makes some profits. That’s how it works. Also, please use punctuation next time so we can understand you better. Stay well and take care
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 9 months ago
    Thanks John. You represented my heart well in your response.
    Vaughn K. from Coeur d'Alene, ID
    Replied 9 months ago
    Not something I'm going to be doing anytime soon (or ever!), but I frequently hear that it's hard/impossible to build new parks nowadays... And somehow that doesn't seem right. I know that in major metros it's not financially viable, and many parks have been converted to "higher" uses. That's happened to all but one of the parks in my city, and there have even been newspaper articles about it. I know some areas don't allow mobiles to be put onto single family lots. But many places DO allow that... So it makes me wonder if there aren't in fact places where one COULD build out a new park from the ground up... And whether or not that would be a good investment, if the returns are in fact good as you say.

    One of the things that always baffles my mind is reading stuff like this about parks, or people saying "It's impossible to find a quad plex anywhere for reasonable money! There's too much investor demand." and yet people don't seem to see the opportunity in that. To my mind it sounds like some builders need to get GOOD at building 4 plexes to satiate the investor demand, and ditto with trailer parks. Some things don't work in certain areas, but there are other areas where they must. If there are great returns in such activities, surely it must be worth figuring out how to supply the market with such goods? Right???

    So with the "It's impossible to build a park" thing, is that true everywhere? Or just in fancy areas where they turn their nose up? Is it primarily that cities or neighborhood people fight this stuff with zoning? If so, what about building in unincorporated county land? It seems like if there's a market for something it is worth finding out how to satisfy it! Just curious since you write a lot about mobile home parks.
    Michael Lewis
    Replied 9 months ago
    I've been wondering the same things, Vaughn - glad you brought this up. Anyone care to shine some light on these thoughts?
    Vaughn K. from Coeur d'Alene, ID
    Replied 8 months ago
    Perhaps we shall never get the answer! The whole "there's a shortage of affordable housing" thing to me has always just screamed "Opportunity!" I understand many of the problems with building lower end houses to sell, or lower end apartments... But if there's a demand then one should be able to find a way to make these things work out.

    I'm no developer, but some of this stuff almost makes me want to try my hand someday. I know a few people who made large fortunes just cranking out new builds. One did strip malls in the 70s and 80s when there was huge demand for that, when I lost contact with him about 15 years ago he was worth ~$100 million. With his investment strategy at the time, I wouldn't be surprised if he's worth $500 million or so now if he didn't decide to just start blowing it all having fun... Which in his case, at his age, I wouldn't blame him for. If there's huge demand for cheap housing now, it stands to reason there's a huge pile of money to be made by people who figure out how to make it work.
    Olya Shumilova
    Replied 9 months ago
    It sounds interesting. I would like to get your book on self storage investment.
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 8 months ago
    Hi Olya, Feel free to private message me to get the eBook that summarizes the main points of the book.
    John Wallace
    Replied 9 months ago
    We've found through trial and error it's better to own all the mobile homes in our park. Tenant screening has been the key to our success. Only two evictions since 1999. Vacancies take longer to fill but turn over isn't high. RVs are the icing on the cake but they are screened too.
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 8 months ago
    John, Wow, that is a bold strategy. And an impressive track record!
    Courtney Buck Investor from Alpharetta GA and Destin, FL
    Replied 9 months ago
    My very first rental property was a mobile home on 2 acres north of Atlanta. Still my best cash flowing property!
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 8 months ago
    Congrats Courtney! Thanks for weighing in.
    Gail Travers
    Replied 9 months ago
    Mary, you are right! I am living this nightmare right now - corporate owners who invest in an "asset class" they put nothing into, let fall down, and squeeze the HOMEOWNERS who live there. We had a great community that is falling into disrepair. As the rent goes up, there is less for homeowners to pay for home repairs. This is a predatory business. As the rent goes up, the value of the individual homes goes down. Investors love to say they are saving affordable housing. If you buy this, you are delusional. You don't save affordable housing by making it unaffordable! Investors need to know that they are facing a fight. In NYS, we have some protections from these predators but not enough. My father (greatest generation and all that) was a great believer in capitalism but he also had a moral compass. Don't bring people to their knees! You can still make your billions doing something beneficial to others.
    Vaughn K. from Coeur d'Alene, ID
    Replied 8 months ago
    In this segment, a lot of people make money by taking a dodgy park and ritzing it up. On the one hand they're making a nicer place, which will be nicer, but also more expensive... For those that need the lower costs, it isn't good for them. That's essentially the whole problem with all forms of gentrification or improving an area... It's nice to have a nicer neighborhood, except for the people that can't afford to live there now. Truly poor people can only afford to live in places that are a bit run down, behind on maintenance a little bit, etc. So it's all a bit of a balancing act. If one wants to make housing for the truly low income you kind of have to keep things on the cheap and not too fancy.
    Travis Dillard Investor from Hood River, OR
    Replied 9 months ago
    Hi Paul, thanks for the great article. We purchased a MHP 2000 miles away a year ago. It’s been an amazing and educational experience. I’ve been investing for years and own other asset classes (apartment and mixed-use buildings). It’s definitely been my best investment to date. We inherited some POHs. With the exception of a couple nice park model units, we’re slowly selling them off to residents. I’ve learned the best way to manage the maintenance expenses on POHs is having a great onsite manager that handles day-to-day maintenance requests within a fixed management fee. It keeps costs down (win for us), provides additional, consistent income for the manager (win for him), and quick maintenance request turn-around (win for the residents). I agree, solid management is probably the most important factor to success with MHPs! 100% TOH parks are the golden standard, but we most always see parks with some element of POH so be prepared to have a plan to deal with them. Other things we’ve learned: 1) Due diligence is critical, always verify what sellers and brokers are telling you. 2) Never underwrite POH income into your valuation. 3) If you do inherit POHs, underwrite at least a 75% expense ratio when determining cash-flow. 4) Really understand what’s all involved with any private utilities you’re acquiring (public water and sewer is ideal). 5) For remote investing in MHPs, have a plan to “manage the onsite manager”. Trust but verify what they’re telling you. Have a checks and balance system. 6) For master- metered utilities, sub-meter and bill back as quickly as possible. Lastly, 7) underwrite a higher cap rate with RV lots. The economics of long-term RV lots can look enticing. That said, It’s much easier for an RV tenant to hook up and leave. Turnover is higher on RV lots. These are just a few things I’ve learned. We’ve added a community garden, pet run, and are adding laundry machines. Our park is clean, safe, has beautifully-manicured grounds, has plenty of space for our residents’ homes and yards, and is one of the most affordable options in the area. The next price-point up is undesirable, small, run-down apartments. If done right, you can provide incredible value for residents while making a nice return for your capital invested and risk. I can assure you that our residents would disagree with people on this post making park investors out to be villains. I always find it funny when people feel investors shouldn’t make a profit on real estate, or any business for that matter. Who do you all think provides all the housing and jobs in America? The government? That didn’t work out so well in Eastern Europe.
    Riley Asburry
    Replied 8 months ago
    Great tips, thanks for sharing!
    Daniel Peavey from Atlanta, GA
    Replied 9 months ago
    It’s always about a book!! Pathetic!
    Gail Travers
    Replied 9 months ago
    Funny, I was in Portland, Oregon recently and was shocked by the number of homeless people in the downtown area and camping under bridges on the highway. My understanding is that the state Mr. Dillard is from has an urgent need for affordable housing. The real issue here is homelessness. When owners boost the rent to reflect what they think is fair market value and start the evictions of families, elderly, veterans, disabled - many of these in mobile home parks, did you think people would think how great it is that an investor just plundered our community?? I think many of the jobs in America come from small business owners, not big investors. Small businesses create 1.5 million jobs yearly. It is the working class that made this country strong. People need to live in a home, not a shelter and the lack of affordable housing is a scourge and a disgrace in this country. You may have some utopia in a trailer park, but watching what investors have done in this area has been sickening and heart wrenching. One park near here went from a thriving community to homes they can't even give away due to pot holes, lousy maintenance and run down homes. It is repeated all over this country and places are fighting back. Educate yourself before you invest in mobile home parks.
    Joe LeTaxi
    Replied 6 months ago
    Gail, I live in Portland and agree that homelessness is a huge problem here. What people fail to appreciate is Oregon has very high fixed monthly costs for homeowners and landlords. We have some of the highest property taxes in the country, and the voters keep passing initiatives that increase this cost. Water service has increased to an average of more than $100/month and sewer is about $60/month. Garbage rates also keep climbing. The meter charges just for connecting to gas and electric (before you even turn on the lights) are $18 and $21 per month. So the typical home costs $800/month or more just in overhead, before making any payments on the actual structure and property. Additionally, the laws heavily favor tenants, rent increases are capped statewide, so as costs go up, landlords get squeezed. Zoning laws make it hard to build new housing stock. Being a landlord here is a fool's errand, so the rental market is very shallow.
    Brad Garland
    Replied 8 months ago
    Paul, intrigued by your post but every time I think mobile home parks I think about tornado total destruction of those type of places. How does that work as the owner of the park? Is the homeowner using their own insurance for their home and you're supporting them from the park/infrastructure side? Thanks in advance.
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 6 months ago
    Brad, Sorry for the delay. Yes, the MH owners have their own insurance. And you would have insurance on any homes you own. Plus general insurance on the park. Take care!
    Rachel H. from San Antonio, TX
    Replied 8 months ago
    Thanks for sharing your knowledge and expertise. Sorry to hear about your experience investing in individual mobile homes. It can definitely go both ways. I've experienced both ups and downs as a mobile home investor with over a decade of experience. I've found it's the park and the community that attracts a certain type of clientele. This is why I've focused my efforts working in higher-end parks versus lower-end ones. Though, to each his own. I've known others who have found success investing in individual mobile homes in all different types of parks. It all boils down to personality. Good luck with the rest of your real estate investing journey!
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 6 months ago
    Thanks so much, Rachel! Same to you.
    Dennis Cosgrave Rental Property Investor
    Replied 8 months ago
    Paul, I just had a conversation last week with a friend of mine in Florida on this very topic. Although I was never indoctrinated with the "trailer trash" stereotype, I always thought that RV parks provided a greater return than MHP's. It is like the argument of renting property short term through AirBnB. The rate per night is substantially higher than the monthly rental rate, assuming you have a relatively high occupancy rate. Do you own any RV parks and if so, how do they compare, both from a financial and a management perspective, with MHP's?
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 8 months ago
    Hi Dennis, Thanks for writing. I am in California the next few days looking to potentially invest with an operator that does RV parks along with MHPs. I personally believe that RV Parks have higher potential upside but quite a bit higher risk. I can't prove that, and even if I could, risk partially depends on what you pay for the property and the going-in cap rate, leverage, etc. In the early weeks of Covid, RV parks took a massive hit and some were even empty. While MHPs sailed on as well as or better than ever.
    Rudolph Gurtovnik
    Replied 6 months ago
    How much do I realistically need to invest in a mobile home property for a down payment? I hear people say that first time investors should buy large mobile homes 50+lots rather than small ones. But those are prohibitively expensive. In the millions. I have saved up approx 50,000 for a business investment at this point? Is that anywhere near realistic to put a 50,000 downpayment on a descent mobile home park whose profits I can use to buy other properties?
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 6 months ago
    Rudolph, In most cases, I recommend starting large if you can. But in the case of MHPs, I believe that most of the same management and finance functions for a large park are similar to those in a small one. (I may be wrong!) It will be tough to get far with $50k, but I will say that smaller MHPs often have mom-and-pop owners who will provide owner-financing and therefore, the $50k could work in some cases. I recommend that you join the LinkedIn group for MHP owners. They may have resources and leads that could help you in your quest.
    Jerry Smith
    Replied 6 months ago
    Great information from article and writer! I own a small mobile park in Bonifay,Florida. We own all the homes except one. It has been a learning experience for sure! We are considering selling to pursue other interests. Jerry Smith Bonifay, Florida
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 6 months ago
    Hi Jerry, Thanks for weighing in. I'm guessing you will have a ready pool of buyers for your park. It's as hot as I've ever seen it.
    Nick Speidell
    Replied 3 months ago
    Hey Paul, I have been presented with an opportunity where investors purchased the land of a park that was in distress and are scraping the whole thing. They have asked me to purchase individual units and have a management company to facilitate tenants. They are pitching a lease contract with a purchase option for the tenant saying i can depreciate the whole property in 7 years and still sell it for profit. They are saying they are getting 10-12% cash on cash. Is this the same thing your referring to as your experience 2: owning a unit?
    Paul Moore Investor from Lynchburg, VA
    Replied 3 months ago
    Hi Nick. Please reach out to me at my PM and Emmerson will set you up for my next weekly free conference call (usually on Wednesdays) where I would be happy to dig in deeper and talk this through with you. At first glance, it seems like the kind of thing I would have loved a decade ago... and would run away from now! I hope that helps a bit.
    Nick Speidell
    Replied 3 months ago
    Thx Paul