I Built a Rental Portfolio That Gives Me “Boring,” Steady Cash Flow

Ashley:
Our guest today is a digital marketing director in Los Angeles by day, but by night she’s been secretly building a rental portfolio that now spans house hacks, midterm rentals, and even an a accessible vacation home. In just two and a half years, she’s gone from zero properties to a cash flow portfolio.

Tony:
Today’s guest, Esther Symone, proves that you don’t need to start with a ton of capital to build purpose-driven cashflow. And she’s walking us through exactly how

Ashley:
This is the Real Estate Rookie podcast. And I’m Ashley Kehr.

Tony:
And I’m Tony j Robinson. And with that, let’s give you a big warm welcome to Esther. Esther, thanks so much for joining us today.

Esther:
Thanks so much. I’ve been a long time listener, so I’m really excited to be here.

Ashley:
Now, Esther, you live in Los Angeles, which is one of the most expensive and competitive real estate markets across the country. Can you take us back to 2022? You submitted 15 offers in this hot market and you lost out on every single one. What was this like for you and how did it not discourage you from continuing your journey?

Esther:
For sure, if you guys remember the market in 20 21, 20 22, the interest interest rates were at record lows at three to 4%, which meant that everybody was trying to buy a home before the rates potentially went back up. And we kind of had the same thought. We thought that the most straightforward and least daunting way, at least to get into real estate was to purchase a primary home for ourselves and potentially house hack. And so we were just really looking for a property where we could do that. At the time, open houses were just absolute chaos. There were lines down, the street rooms were crammed with people, and you could just really feel that competitive energy in the air. My husband and I did end up putting in about 15 offers, and they were all pretty solid offers, but we lost out on every single one. It was just bidding war after bidding war. And I remember one house that we submitted an offer on actually went for $400,000 above asking. So that just kind of shows you the type of market we were in. Yeah. And by the 10th or 11th offer, I just remember thinking to myself, is this what real estate really is? It just seemed pretty cutthroat, and it just seemed like people with the deepest pockets were the ones that were winning. It actually all ended up working out. In the end, we were able to actually purchase the perfect house that really did help kickstart our real estate journey.

Tony:
Esther, let me ask because 15 is a big number, but it’s also not 1000. Or you hear about Colonel Sanders and it took him like whatever, 10,000 people reject him, whatever it is, or Edison with the light bulb. You hear about all these massive failures, but I think a lot of people start to lose their motivation after the second or third or fifth time that it doesn’t work out and they start questioning, oh, is this even worth it? And a lot of people just kind of fizzle out at that point. What was it about you or your mindset that allows you to not give up after the fifth? No, or the 10th? No. Or the 14th? No, right. Because had you not gone through those, you wouldn’t have gotten that first deal. What was it that allowed you to keep pushing forward?

Esther:
Yeah, I knew that real estate would just be more of a long-term goal for us. So we thought, you know what? Hey, if it takes rates creeping back up for us to be able to purchase a home, as long as it’s something that we can house hack in, and it’s something that will help kickstart our real estate journey, we were willing to be patient and prayerful and just waiting for that perfect property.

Ashley:
Now, what ended up being that property? Can you break down that perfect property for us?

Esther:
For sure. We actually did end up purchasing a property and we call it our SoCal cabin, and you’ll learn exactly why. But basically when we were house hunting, we were 12, maybe 13 offers in, we were feeling a bit hopeless, but my husband one day sent me a random listing that looked like a Montana cabin in the middle of Los Angeles. There were giant logs on the ceiling, there was a huge antler chandelier, taxidermy on the walls. We really just laughed at the listing and just kind of forgot about it. And over the next couple months, we started getting notifications for this property saying that there were price drop after price drop on this property, which was really unusual in that state of the market. But with these price drops, the property was now within our buy box. So we ended up going to the open house that Saturday, and as soon as we stepped on that property, we just fell in love.
It was on a pretty big lot, and a lot of the stuff that made it cabin like were truly just cosmetic, there were things that we could change out. And I think the most important part about this property was that there was a recreational room that was about 900 square feet that was above the detached garage. So this was basically a duplex, well, you could make it into a duplex, but it wasn’t listed as one. And none of the listing information stated that there was this amazing space above the garage. And when we walked into that recreational room, we just knew we could transform it into a livable space, make it amazing, and also rent it out. And don’t get me wrong, the house was pretty hideous still, but I think this is exactly why other people dismissed it. And I didn’t care that it was quirky. I just really cared that it gave us a way to house hack in a market where that’s very hard do. And we made an offer that day and it was accepted the next day. And that moment really did make me realize that what a lot of other people see as flaws and investor can really come in and see that as a real opportunity.

Tony:
Ash, I think that there’s a lesson there for all of our rookies that I guess I’ll frame it this way. I’ve seen before, I’ve heard from other rookie investors that when a listing sits for too long, that gives them maybe this false negative that, Hey, there’s a reason that that’s property has been sitting so long, I shouldn’t even waste my time looking at it. But you took at it, or you took maybe the opposite approach, Esther, where you said, Hey, this prophecy has been sitting so long, now it’s within my reach. Let’s go see if we can make this deal work. And you stumbled upon this extra 900 square feet that wasn’t even listed, which would make this a great deal for house hacking. So I think the point or the lesson in Esther’s story for all of the rickeys that are listening is that the age of a listing, how long it’s been sitting is not a direct result of the quality of the deal.
It could be just that maybe they overpriced it to begin with, and that’s what made it sit long. Maybe the listing agent was a poor listing agent and wasn’t returning phone calls or had terrible photos or poor descriptions, or to your point, Esther, maybe there were some cosmetic things that scared off other buyers, but in the grand scheme of things could be fixed in an afternoon. So I think it’s focusing on the deal and what you can find. And I guess how did it feel to go from 15 rejected offers to within 24 hours this deal actually getting accepted?

Esther:
We were just ecstatic. We were like, this is the property that is going to help us get started in real estate. And it was a little daunting. There was a lot of work to be done on that property, but we envisioned what it could become and we just kept our confidence and we knew that we could make it work.

Ashley:
So with that property, once you buy it, what is actually the plan for the full transformation to make it into what you want? How did you actually start out with juggling your rehab while also working full-time as a digital marketing director?

Esther:
For sure. It was a grind, and I was working as a digital marketing director during the day, and then all of our nights and weekends were dedicated to transforming this recreational room into a livable space. I think it was the most exhausting six months of my life. And my husband and I had zero professional experience, but my husband is generally handy, and thankfully we had YouTube and we had determination and a willingness to just figure things out. So along the way, we learned how to demo. We added a full bathroom with a shower. We installed kitchen cabinets, we learned how to lay flooring and tile. We at one point took out, I think it felt like a thousand nails that were keeping all the brown paneling up on the wall, and we just freshened and lightened up the space, and it was exhausting, but I love that we could see the progress we were making from week to week. By the end, we had not only created a beautiful guest house, but we also proved to ourselves that we were capable of doing much more than we thought.

Tony:
Esther, let me ask, I want to know a little bit about the financing. How did you guys fund the actual purchase of the home? And then once you guys owned the property, how did you fund the renovations of the 900 square feet rec room?

Esther:
For sure, we went with a primary home loan, so it was just a 20% down standard loan. We had been saving for a while, just money from our W2 as well as some other side hustles we were doing. Outside of that, the guest house that we did end up renovating now does cover about 60% of our entire mortgage payments. So in Los Angeles? Yeah, in Los Angeles, that’s pretty big because we’re essentially paying less than we were now to live in a 1900 square foot home with a huge backyard as we were when we were living in an 800 square foot two bed, one bath apartment before this. So it really did turn what felt like a crushing financial responsibility into something much more manageable and more than that, I think this property just gave me a lot more confidence and it just gave me permission to dream bigger and just keep going.

Ashley:
Plus that money that you’re paying rent is just going to the landlord, but now your mortgage, it’s paying down the principal balance, which is just adding the equity into your property too. So lots of benefits there. So ess RU successfully, house hacked, improved. You can do this, but how do you grow when you still have a full-time career? We’ll go over that right after word from today’s show sponsors. After that first house hack, Esther didn’t stop there. She started asking, how do I add more doors without taking on more debt? So you actually turned to rental arbitrage. So can you explain what exactly rental arbitrage is?

Esther:
Sure. Rental arbitrage is basically when you rent a property from a landlord and then you re-rent it as a short term or midterm rental, you don’t actually own that property. You’re just making the money on the spread between what you pay in rent to the landlord versus what the guest is paying you. So

Ashley:
How did you find this property that somebody would actually let you do this strategy with?

Esther:
Yeah, so after we purchased our first home, I knew I wanted to keep scaling my real estate portfolio, but I obviously didn’t have the capital to go out and buy another property right away. And that’s when I did discover rental arbitrage. And my first two arbitrage deals actually came through networking with a BiggerPockets member. He had been doing arbitrage himself, but he wanted to transition more into a property management role. So he kindly connected me with a landlord who was open to working with Airbnb operators. And that introduction led to two units near LAX. And that location has been perfect because being near the airport and being really central to Los Angeles, there’s always demand business travelers, interns, travel nurses, it really just gave me the consistent bookings without the seasonality that a lot of other markets deal with. And I also think my experience in finding these units and being, sorry, I also think my experience in getting these arbitrage units is just a testament to how important it is to network, especially with other BiggerPockets members. Everyone I’ve connected with have been so open to sharing their knowledge and their resources and their connections, and I think it just really showed me how much further you can get when you’re surrounded by the right people.

Tony:
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And you mentioned networking, and I think that’s my question. You said it was another BiggerPockets member, but how did you actually connect with that person? Did you just go onto the forums and say, Hey, my name’s Esther. I’m looking to do rental arbitrage in the Los Angeles area, or what steps did you take to connect with that person?

Esther:
Honestly, in the beginning, I was just going to a lot of the BiggerPockets. There were a lot of pop-up networking events, and I remember this one was hosted by Rob Apo and David Green at the time it was in Los Angeles. And so I ended up going there and met a bunch of people. This BiggerPockets member stood out to me because he said he was from the same town that I live in, so we just kind of got to talking. He is run multiple short-term rentals and midterm rentals. And so I just wanted to pick his brain. So I got his number and I called him afterwards, and that’s when I learned that he had some contacts that I could potentially reach out to for operating an Airbnb through arbitrage.

Ashley:
How did you balance scaling two arbitrage units while still leading a marketing team full time? I feel like I’m really hitting this home, but I think a lot of listeners are working jobs and have no intention of actually leaving right away to become full-time real estate investors. So what have you been doing to keep yourself organized or using certain systems and tools?

Esther:
For sure. Honestly, systems saved me In the beginning. My husband and I were doing the cleaning ourselves, and we just realized that that was not worth our time and we were also not doing a very good job at it either. And so we invested in really good property management software. We hired professional cleaning crews that we could rely on, and we just documented everything so that the day-to-day operations didn’t eat up all our time. And I just really focused on the things that did require my personal touch, like guest communication and pricing strategy, and then we outsourced everything else. And I think that balance really did let me grow my portfolio while still being able to work my W2. And of course, it wasn’t without sacrifice. There were a lot of days which we just had to kind of troubleshoot on the fly. But I think the trade-off was definitely worth it because I knew I was building something for myself in the end.

Tony:
Esther, I’m in southern California as well. What city were you in near LAX and were there any issues with regulations in those markets?

Esther:
Yeah, so the city we’re in is El Segundo, which is a tiny coastal town right near LIX. Yes. So we aren’t able to do short-term rentals because that is against the El Segundo laws over there. But we do do midterm rentals, which is 31 plus days of guests staying in our unit. And that’s actually allowed, that’s similar to all other long-term rentals. So that’s how we got around being able to rent this on Airbnb and VRBO and other properties.

Tony:
Got it. And what did those midterm rentals teach you about consistent cashflow compared to the short-term rentals or traditional house hacking?

Esther:
For sure. They taught me that consistency can be just as powerful as high nightly rates. With midterm rentals, I wasn’t chasing bookings every week. I had interns staying three months at a time, travel nurses on assignments and business professionals who were on extended projects. And so the occupancy rate has been hovering around 90 to 95%. And I think that kind of predictability gave me a peace of mind, and it was a reminder that sometimes boring cashflow is the best kind and it’s steady, it’s reliable, and it just really freed up my mental energy so that I can think about the next deal.

Tony:
I know that this market, SoCal is obviously one of the most expensive markets in the country. What is your rent on these units and did you have any fear about the rent amount and signing a 12 month lease to say, man, am I actually going to be able to cover this rent on a monthly basis?

Esther:
Yeah, it was very daunting, but I did start with smaller units. So they are studios, so they go for about $2,100 in rent per unit. And that was still a very big burden because when you have two, that’s $4,200 out of your pocket every month, if you don’t find someone to live there, you have to basically fund that yourself. It was extremely daunting at first, but I did my research and I just took a leap of faith and they ended up doing really well. So I’m really, really happy about that.

Ashley:
Here I am in Buffalo, New York, getting ready to rent a studio for six 50 a month, 21. Oh my God.

Tony:
And I was like, oh, that’s actually not too bad. Esther. How long of a lease did you sign when you first took these units on?

Esther:
Yeah, they were a one year lease, and then it rolled over to a month to month basis. So we felt like we just needed to make it through one year, and then if we did want to pivot, then we knew we could.

Ashley:
So at this point, you’re really starting to see a path from employee to entrepreneur, especially after giving up the cleaning and outsourcing that. Did you still feel like change to your W2 though? Did you feel like you couldn’t shift out of that?

Esther:
Honestly, I wouldn’t say I felt chained to my W2, and in many ways I saw it as a vehicle to kind of help me achieve my real estate goals a lot faster. It provided the stability and the income that I could leverage, and I’ve always viewed real estate as a long-term strategy for building financial freedom. I knew it wouldn’t be quick, and I’ve always had an entrepreneurial spirit going other e-commerce businesses, but this was the first time that I really treated real estate as a business and seeing myself as a true investor. And what I also love is just how the tax benefits from real estate compliment my W2 income. It makes me feel like both worlds are actually working together and not against each other, which has only motivated me to continue to scale.

Tony:
One last question from you on the midterm rentals. Esther, you mentioned you’re at 90% occupancy. Where are you sourcing most of these guests? Is it just through Airbnb and vrbo? Are you doing furnish finder? Are you reaching out to the businesses themselves? What strategies are you using to keep it filled?

Esther:
For sure, a good portion of them actually came through Facebook. I posted them on Facebook marketplace, and I also posted in a lot of housing groups, even just our local community groups, also going to community groups saying, Hey, if anyone has family coming to town for a couple months, I have these units that are fully furnished, has a full kitchen, really central to that coastal town. So that’s how I found a lot of people outside of just the standard platforms of Airbnb, vrbo, and Furnish Finder.

Tony:
I actually stayed at a midterm rental in El Segundo in college. Now I’m like, I dunno, 50 miles east of El Segundo, but that’s like, I dunno, it’s almost a three hour drive home during rush hour traffic. And I was interning in El Segundo and I stayed in rents and I was there for I think 12 weeks during the summer. So I can only imagine all the businesses that are down there. There’s probably a pretty healthy demand of people in that specific market that are looking for it for midterm stays. So man, I never thought about midterm renting in El Segundo, but now I’ve got another shiny object. Maybe go chase right now.

Ashley:
Cody, I have to laugh because recently I shared my college experience of living in a frat house over the summer for 12 weeks. And here you are in a fully furnish for rental during COVID.

Tony:
Slightly different life experience though, because I think Sean, my son, he was already in preschool, so he was actually going to school in El Segundo during that summer. So I think that the frat house wouldn’t have worked as well. But now Esther, we know that your most meaningful deal wasn’t even necessarily about the cashflow, it was about creating a space for someone in your own family that they could actually use. And we’ll get into that deal right after we’re from today’s show sponsors. Alright, so Esther, we know that your next project took your skills in a slightly different direction, designing not just for aesthetics but for accessibility, which is something that I don’t think we’ve talked about at all really on this show about accessible units for people that are traveling. So tell us about the Oceanside condo and why this project mattered so much to you and your family.

Esther:
Sure. This is actually the property that I’m most proud of. My father-in-law is a quadriplegic, which means he’s paralyzed from the chest down and he lives his life in a wheelchair. He recently bought a condo overlooking the harbor in Oceanside, California, and he came to my husband and I and he asked us if we could help him make this a vacation rental, but one that he could use himself comfortably as a wheelchair user. So together we renovated the condo to be fully a accessible, and the goal here wasn’t just to create another rental space, it was to create a place where people with disabilities could actually come and relax and enjoy their vacation without having to compromise on comfort. And for my father-in-law and for so many others out there, this really does matter.

Ashley:
Oh, I am thinking of just my rentals and one is a ranch style, but there still is that one little step up. There’s a curb to get into the shower. It’s not very accessible at all, even though it is a ranch style, one story only property. And I can imagine that especially with more people trying to be more unique and have experiences that properties get less and less accessible. So I imagine that this is a very specific niche and it is hard for people to find properties that actually meet all of these. Is that true? Do you feel like there’s not a lot of accessible units actually out there and you’re very rare in that sense?

Esther:
For sure. It was really eyeopening because it did force us to look at design in a completely different way as well. What most people take for granted, like counter height or flooring transitions like you said, can be the difference of it being usable and unusable for someone in a wheelchair for sure.

Ashley:
I mean, I even think of a kitchen island not fitting in between the world cabinets and the island because it’s not wide enough. There’s so much that goes into making it accessible. So that’s really awesome that you guys were able to do that. During this rehab project, did you guys outsource this to a contract or did you DIY? This rehab to

Esther:
It was about half and half because the property is about two and a half hours away from us. My husband and I just thought of the design and there was certain portions of the property that we did work on offsite and then we would bring all the items on site and then my husband would work on it on the weekends or at night. But basically we had to rethink everything from scratch and we got a lot of input from my father-in-law, which was helpful. We basically reworked the entire layout of the space for easy mobility. My husband custom built kitchen cabinets and the bathroom vanity so that it was at the right height for wheelchair users. And we just added a lot of details, making sure that the bathroom mirror could tilt down a little bit so that folks in wheelchairs could actually see themselves in the mirror when they were using the bathroom vanity. And yeah, just thinking about every little detail like turning radius and reach height when we were designing this property,

Tony:
It’s such an incredible project because I think that it solves two needs simultaneously. The first need that it solves is that there’s an entire population of people who have very limited choices when they travel in terms of what’s actually going to work for them. And you are solving that need in a very meaningful way. The second thing that it solves is just the financial component of even though it’s a niche product, you’re probably going to do incredibly well because you are one of the only people that are solving this need. And it reminds me, Ashley, if you remember, we interviewed Davana and Reed and they ran the sober living facilities and it was very much a similar concept where it was this underserved population that a lot of people weren’t thinking about. They were able to go in and provide a solution for, but at the same time they were able to do incredibly well from an investment perspective. So it truly is just like a win-win for everybody involved. So my question to you, Esther, is how did this project, if it did, maybe change the way that you think about real estate investing?

Esther:
For sure. It completely changed my perspective. Before I was more focused on profit and scaling, and this was the first time that this project actually showed me just how powerful it is to invest with a purpose. And according to Airbnb, searches for a accessible states are up 40% year over year. So the demand is real. The market is there. Beyond that, Airbnb has even partnered with groups like the United Spinal Association to expand accessible housing. And it is just really deeply rewarding to know that we’ve created a space where people with mobility challenges can enjoy a beautiful vacation. And accessibility isn’t just a nice add-on anymore. It’s really becoming a growing part of travel. And it just made me think I really do want my portfolio to reflect both profit and purpose. And I think creating spaces that are inclusive and can serve more people is just one way to do that.

Ashley:
Now, Esther, if someone else was thinking of doing this to their property, what are some resources where they could actually find out about some of these different things like the tilting of the mirror in all of these little things? Where are there different websites or organizations that can actually help you put together all of these pieces to make it accessible?

Esther:
The United Spinal Association has a Facebook group, and that’s my father-in-law is a part of that. And he shared this Airbnb listing and people were saying, wow, this is incredible. I’d love to stay here one day. It hits all the marks of what a wheelchair user needs. I think Chacha PT also is a really good one now that you have that. And just thinking about if you were just seated on a seat all day, where would you want the counter height to be? Where would you want a wheel under? What are the flooring transitions needed for you to smoothly be able to even get into a shower? So a roll-in shower was a really big one. And yeah, there’s a lot of resources out there now to make a space more a a accessible. You can also even look at the filters that Airbnb offers for a accessibility and see if your property meets any of those requirements.

Tony:
Wester, thank you for sharing this. Again, unique approach to real estate investing that again, I think is solving an incredibly important need for the folks in that population. But as you think about your portfolio and what comes next, you’ve got the A DU in the back, you’ve got the rental arbitrage units. What are you focused on next to continue scaling your own portfolio?

Esther:
For sure. I think I am not ready to yet leave my W2 because as I stated earlier, I think I’m not in a rush to leave it because it does provide stability and real estate is more of that alternate stream of income for now and that creative outlet. Some exciting news is that we are actually closing on a duplex tomorrow in

Tony:
Congratulations. Congratulations.

Esther:
Thank you so much. In Long Beach, California. So because that’s a duplex, one of the units will be a short-term rental, and the other one will be a midterm rental with the World Cup and the Olympics also coming in the next couple of years. We’re really excited to host folks traveling for that as well. And looking forward, I’d just love to continue designing rentals that are inclusive, accessible, and comfortable.

Tony:
Esther, congratulations on the duplex. And I know we’re wrapping here, but I’m just, did you guys buy that deal by yourselves? Did you partner with someone else? What kind of financing did you guys use? Because I mean, a duplex in Long Beach I would imagine is somewhat expensive, right? Relatively speaking. So how did you take that deal down?

Esther:
Yeah, it was a standard 25% down investor loan. Again, we’re pretty frugal with our money. We have other businesses outside of real estate where we really try to create multiple different streams of income outside of our W2 as well, which has helped. And we’re really just in that financial freedom mindset and nothing’s going to stop us at this point. So yeah, we just took another leap of faith and bought the property.

Tony:
I love that. Well, congratulations, Esther, an amazing story. And I love the hustle. I love the spirit, I love the purpose that you have in your portfolio as well. And I’m sure that there are a lot of rookies listening that’ll be inspired by what you share with us today.

Ashley:
And Tony, I hope you’re making plans to move out of your house when the World Cup and what was the Olympics?

Tony:
I dunno if anyone make I Rent, if anyone wants to make the commute out there. Absolutely. I’ll be

Ashley:
Gone to Gusto rule. You can rent it out tax free for what, two weeks a year?

Tony:
Yeah, we will be gone. Yeah.

Ashley:
Well, sir, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate you taking the time to share your journey and your story. Where can people find you to reach out for more information?

Esther:
Yeah, I’m on Instagram as our Soul Cal cabin. You can actually see a lot of our renovation videos there, so you can reach out there. And I had love to connect with other people listening to this podcast.

Ashley:
I’m Ashley. And he’s Tony. And we’ll see you guys on the next episode of Real Estate Rookie.