Hello everyone. I am looking to connect with another member (preferably in the midwest) who is buying SFH or MFH with all cash. I am looking to get involved with investing as a second career when I retire from my W2 in 5-10 years. I am in the position to be able to buy a few properties with all cash and I was wanting to connect with someone who uses this "all cash" strategy. I realize most people here do not buy their RE properties with all cash, but I am wanting to ask some general questions and learn from anyone here who follows this method of investing. Thank you.
Zach
Why are you employing an all-cash strategy?
Read a few books on real estate investing to learn the power of leverage. I like the Unofficial Guide to Real Estate Investing. Here's a very basic explanation to get your juices flowing:
Assume a house costs $200,000 and rents for $1,500. The market appreciates 3% per year.
Pay cash for one house and rent it for $1,500. After five years you'll have earned $90,000 in rent income and gained $34,000 in appreciation.
Buy four houses with $50,000 down on each. Mortgage payment is $1,000 on each house, so you're essentially earning $500 per house or $2,000 a month. After five years you'll have earned $120,000 in rent income and gained $136,000 in appreciation. You've earned $132,000 more by splitting your money and leveraging it.
@Joe Villeneuve In the market I am currently trying to purchase in, you are pretty much out of the game if you aren’t paying all cash. The last property I wanted had 12 offers, most cash and all over asking price. The seller’s agent said the only ones that were considered the all cash ones.
@Zachary Bush makes perfect sense. Going into retirement without accumulating debt is the way to go.
@Joe Villeneuve My point was that being able to pay all cash DOES make a difference, not that there aren’t other markets to invest in.
@Joe Villeneuve I believe we are talking about two different things here. I am talking about how to purchase a property, and that having the ability to pay all cash increases your odds of actually getting the property. If a seller has two offers at the same price, one all cash, and one with a financing contingency, the all cash offer is going to be more attractive and more likely to get accepted. Those saying that all deals are all cash at closing are not taking into account the fact that a pure all cash offer is more attractive than one with a financing contingency.
What you do with the property after the sale is a separate issue. For example, my preferred process is to purchase a property that could use some updates for all cash, then update and do a cash out financing pulling most or all of my costs out of the property. So I think we agree on the long term investment process.
@Joe Villeneuve My point was that being able to pay all cash DOES make a difference, not that there aren’t other markets to invest in.
Or it means seller knows it won't appraise, and is looking for buyers chasing getting a place vs getting a place that makes sense.
Cash offers, in the sense of "oh, only difference in my offer is no mortgage" make 0 difference to a seller because at closing ALL offers are CASH offers, sellers are ALWAYS paid in cash.
What matters is TERMS. So even in this 1 instance where seller doubts it will appraise, even then it's all about TERMS and not the "cash offer", as there true motive is avoiding an appraisal.
....If a seller has two offers at the same price, one all cash, and one with a financing contingency, the all cash offer is going to be more attractive....
@Joe Villeneuve I believe we are talking about two different things here. I am talking about how to purchase a property, and that having the ability to pay all cash increases your odds of actually getting the property. If a seller has two offers at the same price, one all cash, and one with a financing contingency, the all cash offer is going to be more attractive and more likely to get accepted. Those saying that all deals are all cash at closing are not taking into account the fact that a pure all cash offer is more attractive than one with a financing contingency.
What you do with the property after the sale is a separate issue. For example, my preferred process is to purchase a property that could use some updates for all cash, then update and do a cash out financing pulling most or all of my costs out of the property. So I think we agree on the long term investment process.
@Joe Villeneuve My point was that being able to pay all cash DOES make a difference, not that there aren’t other markets to invest in.
Or it means seller knows it won't appraise, and is looking for buyers chasing getting a place vs getting a place that makes sense.
Cash offers, in the sense of "oh, only difference in my offer is no mortgage" make 0 difference to a seller because at closing ALL offers are CASH offers, sellers are ALWAYS paid in cash.
What matters is TERMS. So even in this 1 instance where seller doubts it will appraise, even then it's all about TERMS and not the "cash offer", as there true motive is avoiding an appraisal.
Why are you looking for an investor buying all cash? That is likely the least sophisticated investor you will meet.
REALLY !!! least sophisticated, I guess you can move me over to the unsophisticated Investor category then. Most folks I know that are VERY wealthy have little to no debt on anything.
Depends on the asset class and if you are starting out with little money then of course you need debt but if you have funds owning props free and clear is not unsophisticated.. Most folks that do have significant banking relationships and sophisticated bankers like to see paid for assets and not all maxed out liabilities.. there is more to it then the math.
We all can do simply math and simple math says leverage increase returns no arguing that point. But there is more to it than just that one part of the equation.
....If a seller has two offers at the same price, one all cash, and one with a financing contingency, the all cash offer is going to be more attractive....
@James Hamling Jeez the hostility! Yes, I'm fully aware of terms. For example, you mention EMD. I've gone as high as a $10,000 but I am completely confident in an opportunity. It's funny how people take something as simple as a cash offer and blow it up into this kind of discussion. And yes, I understand completely the beauty of leverage, and why it works. I have a masters degree in finance, so I'm somewhat educated on financial matters. This is my last post on the subject. 
@James Hamling Jeez the hostility! Yes, I'm fully aware of terms. For example, you mention EMD. I've gone as high as a $10,000 but I am completely confident in an opportunity. It's funny how people take something as simple as a cash offer and blow it up into this kind of discussion. And yes, I understand completely the beauty of leverage, and why it works. I have a masters degree in finance, so I'm somewhat educated on financial matters. This is my last post on the subject. 
use the cash to get a better deal because you can close fast etc.....then put the long term financing on the property
FAKE NEWS!!!!
This is rapidly becoming my #1 ANNOUANCE myth in real estate, the myth that "oh-oh-ohhh tell someone your going to pay all cash and they will hit the floor, praise your existence, and let you buy it for tens of thousands less than everyone else" it's simply NOT true.
Ok, let me ask you this, at closing, when selling to an FHA buyer, what does seller get?
At closing, for a VA buyer, what does seller get?
CASH!!!! It's ALL cash! Every time ALL THE TIME at closing, it's ALL CASH.
Terms matter, price matters, but HOW it turns into cash at closing nobody with half a brain cares, it's ALL cash at closing. FHA does not pay in vouchers for Subway, VA does not pay in Kohls Cash....
See, back in the day when WE (notice the WE, not them or others) made the terms "cash buyer" popularly known, it was MORE a reference to our TERMS than our payment action. When we made "ALL CASH OFFER" it was referring to the as-is, where-is, NO inspection, zero terms DONE-deal here's your offer AND I pay closing, offer. Or for short, all-cash-offer.
Now, people have twisted it to thinking just offer to pay in cash and people will be so wowed they will hand a massive discount. That's just not how it works.
ALL offers are cash offers at closing.
Yeah a buyer with FHA is much less attractive than a cash buyer so you definitely can't use that as an example. Too many requirements for the loan not to mention if the appraisal comes in low it sticks to the property. As a seller I've had someone with FHA do an over market offer, you know why? They won't have to pay it if it doesn't appraise! I took the cash offer for slightly less and don't regret it for a second.
@Tim J. said it best. You can buy it in cash and then re-fi out of it afterwards. It will cost slightly more that way but if you are in a cash-competitive market, it's not a bad idea to buy in cash initially. You can easily do a conventional investor or DSCR loan right after.
I'm in a situation where I am going to have a lot of cash by the end of the year and my strategy as an Agent/Investor was going to be buying all cash and buying below market value and then immediately refinancing out but was told by several banks yesterday that by doing this I would have to wait 6 months before i could get a conventional investor mortgage on the property, Is this true?
Ok, let me explain this with a little story.
Back in the day, ~2011/12 when everyone was jumping on the band wagon of trying to get a deal, claiming they had the bigger offer, I would tell people I GUARANTEE I would bring them the BIGGEST check of ANYONE, and if I didn't I'd give em a free steak dinner for whole family just for hearing me out.
I'd pull up, and pull out from back seat of car my 3'x9' tri-fold check. Lol. I kid you not. Knock on door, say the hi's and just ignor the fact I have this giant thing in my arm, as everyone looks. Come in, sit down, start talking, again ignoring this giant thing. Until finally I said, "oh, and yeah, ok, I guess maybe wondering on this". Where I would say, I promised the BIGGEST check and, as i open it up and plop it down on table pulling out my pen to sign I say "true to my word, the BIGGEST check, right" as I look to get confirmation that it is, in fact, the BIGGEST check.
And I used this to break the ice but also emphasis the fact that all that jazz is just BS marketing, because it is. And I'd tell them that, everyone pandering for their buy, it's just that, BS marketing to get them to sell to em, and that I am a horrible liar, that this is as jazzy as it get's and I just won't play the games. I work in win-wins. My word is titanium, I mean what I say and I get things done, full stop. So if they want to work with someone REAL, no BS, then we can make something work. If they want BS slogans, catch phrases and jazz, it's just not me, good luck, see ya bye.
In all the years I did these, I lost 1 seller to being scalped, 1.
People get it, they see the BS through it all, there simply not that dumb.
ALL offers are CASH offer at closing. People DON'T care how you get the cash to closing, that's your problem not there's. Why do agents say they prefer conventional over FHA? The inspection, nobody cares where the bank wire comes from, it's about TERMS.
TERMS are what matter, nobody is going to hand you a discount and sell UNDER market value because you said the word CASH. That's a feeble venture to attempt.
People WILL discount for favorable terms, which isn't a discount then is it, it's a TRADE.
I am in an area that is somewhat rural where cash, real cash and close in a week mean something. These are the same type of people who leave so much money on the table because "I aint messin with no real-a-tor, and payin them fees" So cash and a quick close means something. My question was after I purchase the property thats worth 150k for 100k do I have to wait 6 months before I can apply for a mortgage and do i have to put a downpayment down if the property would be worth, in this case, 50k more than what i purchased it for.
Hi Benton, as a hard money lender, if someone brings me a property that they recently purchased and they want to cash-out, I wouldn't bat an eye at it. I would cash you out the next day at 70% LTV. LTV would be based on appraisal, not to exceed 100% LTC. If the appraisal came in for $150K and you paid $100K, I would give you up to $100K.
Unfortunately I can't speak to conventional lender rules in this instance.
"Hi Benton, as a hard money lender, if someone brings me a property that they recently purchased and they want to cash-out, I wouldn't bat an eye at it. I would cash you out the next day at 70% LTV. LTV would be based on appraisal, not to exceed 100% LTC. If the appraisal came in for $150K and you paid $100K, I would give you up to $100K.
Unfortunately I can't speak to conventional lender rules in this instance."
Exactly. If you are tying up your cash in real estate - you are missing the big picture.
First of all I don't believe that there is absolutely no one who would take a financed deal in your area - unless you live in an area the size of a postage stamp. Someone just got a cancer diagnosis, a divorce, inherited a property they don't want, or want to leave a cold climate for a smaller one. And who said that you have to invest just where you live?
Get a map of the USA and start pointing your fingers to different markets! I know you can do this. I am scared to, but leveraging the money that we do have rather than putting it all in is the best way to wealth.
Read @DavidGreene's book - Long-Distance Real Estate Investing.
use the cash to get a better deal because you can close fast etc.....then put the long term financing on the property
FAKE NEWS!!!!
This is rapidly becoming my #1 ANNOUANCE myth in real estate, the myth that "oh-oh-ohhh tell someone your going to pay all cash and they will hit the floor, praise your existence, and let you buy it for tens of thousands less than everyone else" it's simply NOT true.
Ok, let me ask you this, at closing, when selling to an FHA buyer, what does seller get?
At closing, for a VA buyer, what does seller get?
CASH!!!! It's ALL cash! Every time ALL THE TIME at closing, it's ALL CASH.
Terms matter, price matters, but HOW it turns into cash at closing nobody with half a brain cares, it's ALL cash at closing. FHA does not pay in vouchers for Subway, VA does not pay in Kohls Cash....
See, back in the day when WE (notice the WE, not them or others) made the terms "cash buyer" popularly known, it was MORE a reference to our TERMS than our payment action. When we made "ALL CASH OFFER" it was referring to the as-is, where-is, NO inspection, zero terms DONE-deal here's your offer AND I pay closing, offer. Or for short, all-cash-offer.
Now, people have twisted it to thinking just offer to pay in cash and people will be so wowed they will hand a massive discount. That's just not how it works.
ALL offers are cash offers at closing.
Yeah a buyer with FHA is much less attractive than a cash buyer so you definitely can't use that as an example. Too many requirements for the loan not to mention if the appraisal comes in low it sticks to the property. As a seller I've had someone with FHA do an over market offer, you know why? They won't have to pay it if it doesn't appraise! I took the cash offer for slightly less and don't regret it for a second.
And that's EXACTLY my point, everything your detailing here are TERMS items, right.
This whole thing started with someone thinking if they say "cash offer" sellers will go with them simply because of that AND offer discount for such. No, no they won't. Do a cash offer with appraisal/inspection contingency and see how that goes for ya.
I explained this rather clear I thought, that the term "cash offer" was, originally, an acronym for how we used to submit an offer in it's entirety MEANING no inspection contingency, no appraisal contingency, often times covering seller closing. We should have called it the "DONE DEAL" offer.
Now, today, people reading books and hearing of it 3rd, 4th, 17th hand are ASSUMING or incorrectly informed that all we did was tell people our financing was "CASH" and people just worshiped at our feet, handed out big discounts and told everyone else to beat it, lol. I wish.
Last few years I have had many come to me in misery saying they don't understand what they did wrong because after 20, 30, 40+ offers with there other agent such&such and so&so big brand brokerage who said "just say cash and it will all work", and, it didn't.
Next thing ya know, 4th offer we nail it. 2nd offer, 7th, etc.. And, sometimes, there is that hole-in-one.
I had one just over a year ago, I was $30k LOWER then highest offer. There was 3 additional other offers and 2 backups to those! And I got it, hole-in-1. Why? My terms, and negotiations. We had a serious EM, NON-refundable, no inspection contingency BECAUSE I knew it was going to be competitive so I had inspector with on showing, we already knew everything to know. And, no appraisal contingency, because we knew our #'s (I have an appraiser on staff internally).
I told list agent, I KNOW what it's actually worth, what it WILL appraise for and our offer is rock-solid guarenteed to close, the others, feel free to roll the dice. BUT, if they go that route, and when it falls out and they come back, maybe we will buy it but business is business, it will be discounted for the situation. The deal is a here and now take it or leave it.
So many agents are LAZY in the job, they don't negotiate, they don't use strategy, they don't put effort into it. Yes, 90% of agents are LAZY using clients $ to answer every issue.
My "secret sauce"; EFFORT.
Unfortunately, you are not ready to invest yet and you will miss the benefits of this cycle or buy something inappropriate. You should not buy at this point. That's okay though, cycles come around every 10 or 12 years or so.
You have analysis paralysis, which is a very common amongst wannabe investors. It is not that unusual. I do wish you well though.
Yes, I've definitely got analysis paralysis and I'm being extra cautious with money right now. I'm not sure how long this cycle will last, maybe I can still get my first property while it's still on, if not, then I know people invest in various markets. It may not be as good as now, but if the numbers work, and I do my due diligence, I think it will be ok.
There are a few reasons I am waiting. Without going into all of the details, I would hate to make any hasty decisions and regret them, and I'm 99.9% sure that right now is not the right time, but in the coming months or 1-3years it will be.
Why are you looking for an investor buying all cash? That is likely the least sophisticated investor you will meet.
Investors who purchase all cash limit their buying power. If your goal is to purchase a hand full, by all means. If you want to create a large portfolio, cash is going to delay you immensely. Anyone who defends all cash purchases invest in real estate as a hobby.
Why are you looking for an investor buying all cash? That is likely the least sophisticated investor you will meet.
Investors who purchase all cash limit their buying power. If your goal is to purchase a hand full, by all means. If you want to create a large portfolio, cash is going to delay you immensely. Anyone who defends all cash purchases invest in real estate as a hobby.
Dude your so far off base on this you simply dont know many true cash investors of any size apparently. my company will have 200 plus homes in inventory with Zero debt. far from a hobby .
now my 90 home new build project 75,000,000 at build out I have debt on that as we are in and out of each home in one year or less so short term construction loans.. your talking folks in a completely different league than those that need debt or to sub too to acquire their homes.. Just sayin.
Hello everyone. I am looking to connect with another member (preferably in the midwest) who is buying SFH or MFH with all cash. I am looking to get involved with investing as a second career when I retire from my W2 in 5-10 years. I am in the position to be able to buy a few properties with all cash and I was wanting to connect with someone who uses this "all cash" strategy. I realize most people here do not buy their RE properties with all cash, but I am wanting to ask some general questions and learn from anyone here who follows this method of investing. Thank you.
Zach
I have bought properties all cash. There is nothing wrong with it. The one thing I did learn was that banks do a fair amount of the due diligence for you. If you are paying cash you need to be more careful with the due diligence portion. Dont skimp on good title insurance also. Also make sure you have some good umbrella coverage as the full value of the asset is in your name.
@Zachary Bush For the first time I just bought an underperforming property all cash but have the intention of refinancing once it’s stabilized. My newest timeline on this is about 8 months.
Being able to make the cash offer allowed me the ability to seal the deal thanks to some screwy conditions with the listing before anyone else had an opportunity and a bidding war began.
Once my money is out of this deal I intend on paying a partner back on another deal and having enough cash left over to fund my next deal.
If you have any questions please feel free to ask.
Why are you looking for an investor buying all cash? That is likely the least sophisticated investor you will meet.
REALLY !!! least sophisticated, I guess you can move me over to the unsophisticated Investor category then. Most folks I know that are VERY wealthy have little to no debt on anything.
Depends on the asset class and if you are starting out with little money then of course you need debt but if you have funds owning props free and clear is not unsophisticated.. Most folks that do have significant banking relationships and sophisticated bankers like to see paid for assets and not all maxed out liabilities.. there is more to it then the math.
We all can do simply math and simple math says leverage increase returns no arguing that point. But there is more to it than just that one part of the equation.
Sure wish I could vote 5 times for this post!
"But there is more to it than just that one part of the equation."
It is the unsophisticated who cannot see past the simple math.
Unfortunately, you are not ready to invest yet and you will miss the benefits of this cycle or buy something inappropriate. You should not buy at this point. That's okay though, cycles come around every 10 or 12 years or so.
You have analysis paralysis, which is a very common amongst wannabe investors. It is not that unusual. I do wish you well though.
Yes, I've definitely got analysis paralysis and I'm being extra cautious with money right now. I'm not sure how long this cycle will last, maybe I can still get my first property while it's still on, if not, then I know people invest in various markets. It may not be as good as now, but if the numbers work, and I do my due diligence, I think it will be ok.
There are a few reasons I am waiting. Without going into all of the details, I would hate to make any hasty decisions and regret them, and I'm 99.9% sure that right now is not the right time, but in the coming months or 1-3years it will be.