My Case for C and D Properties!

My Case for C and D Properties!

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 105 votes

I know not everyone is against C and D properties but I have a few cases for them as a viable asset to invest in.

1. Cheaper price point to get started in real estate (cheaper is not as worse)

2. It is less affected by down economies and recessions ( the lower middle class to lower class usually work in jobs that don't fail during hard times).

3. When these people feel comfortable where they are, they are less likely to want to move ( they do not like change as much as other classes).

4. People in these communities want the same things that people in other communities want safe, affordable, and nice living space. 

( If you can provide that slightly or a lot better than other people in the community than you can have an endless supply of tenants).

5. You can make a great change in particular areas of a city, state, or town and uplift the community for good while making money. (Double whammy)

What are your thoughts?

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
6y

while those are generally good thoughts.. reality is far different in my experience owning hundreds of them.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 105 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Quentin Mitchell

    I may post that question :)

    I don't have an opinion on this thread overall since I'm a total newbie, but I am facinated by all the people who are 100% against C/D neighborhoods. I completely understand avoiding D neighborhoods, but C's?...not sure yet. I mean just Google "bigger pockets neighborhoods," or "bigger pockets C neighborhoods," etc. There are podcasts, and blogs, and posts out the wazoo from people who have succeeded in these neighborhoods long-term. Heck, I believe even Gary Keller said something to the effect of "the best deals are on the lower end of the middle class neighborhoods or the higher end of the lower class neighborhoods."

    Not disagreeing with anyone here (especially those with decades of experiennce), again just facinated the comments 😄

    Honestly I really like C's but I think they match my skill set and budget at this stage of my career. I also believe there aren't any wrong answers just different perspectives. Glad you liked the post though.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 105 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Mike S.:

    I've had good luck in C class going on 6 years now. No evictions. I do nearly all of my own repairs and maintenance because I like it. Beats the hell out of going to the W2 every day. My tenants stay quite a while because I take really good care of these homes.

    I think how you treat the people is a big part of it, I wish you continued success.

  • Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Michael Ealy:

    Guys and gals,

    I think we have to clarify what we mean by C & D areas. Also, people are forgetting there are "F" areas too.

    I started investing in F areas.

    Fs - are the war zones: it's where every other house is boarded up. Fs are where 90% of violent crimes in a city happen. Fs are hard to manage and there's constant headaches and problems. And yes, your life can be at stake as in these areas, you can get shot or stabbed. No newbie investor should start with Fs. I did because I didn't know any better. I made money with it by being hands on and as @Jay Hinrichs correctly pointed out, you need scale - which I did because I started owning a 28-unit building in an F area and luckily for me, the area gentrified and I sold it for a $200,000 profit. 

    Cs are great cashflow maker. My C tenants actually call before the due date and inform me they are going to be late with rent. Some of them are on section 8 and some aren't. Cs appreciate in value and lately, in Cincinnati, the rents in C areas have been increasing like crazy.

    To prepare for the coming recession (or market correction), it's always good to have properties in C areas. Cs made me a lot of money specially during the Great Recession. Out of the 1,000 apartment units I own, I would say 70% of them are Cs and 50% of my tenants are on section 8.

    To succeed with Ds, you need to have them on government or non profit housing program or subsidy to minimize rent collection problems . A wise investor once said that D stands for Drama and Depreciation. I agree 100%. Ds are a step above Fs and there is a boarded up house every other block so it's not as bad as Fs. Ds, generally don't appreciate. 

    To the OP who started this post: yes, you can make money with Cs and Ds. I literally made MILLIONS with them. But, you got to be hands on and you need scale. And knowing what I know now, don't even do Fs. Life is too short and there's more to life than money.

    Morning Mike, to be fair and balanced like Fox news.. we do need to separate SFR's or duplexs from True multi family.. MF just by nature allows you to scale when one transaction might be 20 to 100 doors.. trying to do this in the SFR space much different..

     Hi Jay,

    Scale is a MULTIPLIER of profit AND loss - meaning, that for a good operator, his profit is MULTIPLIED with scale. It also means that for a bad operator, scale also multiplies one's LOSSES.

    I mean, if someone does not do tenant screening, he will have more problems with a 20-unit building than he has owning a single family home because he will have 20 crappy tenants vs. 1.

    I still own single family homes and a few of them are in D areas, some in A, B, and C. I do make less money with houses (compared to apartments) but because I bought them right and I got good tenants in them, they all make me money even those in D areas.

  • Rental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 694 votes
    6y

    @Quentin Mitchell I'm on the same page. There are areas of OKC that might have bit higher crime but my cash flow is better, my purchase prices are lower and when you make the property nicer than what the area typically sees your chances of securing a long term renter skyrocket. If someone that wants to live in that community gets a shot at a beautiful little home that's got a good rent rate why wouldn't they jump on it and hold on! 

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 105 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alyssa Dyer:

    @Quentin Mitchell I'm on the same page. There are areas of OKC that might have bit higher crime but my cash flow is better, my purchase prices are lower and when you make the property nicer than what the area typically sees your chances of securing a long term renter skyrocket. If someone that wants to live in that community gets a shot at a beautiful little home that's got a good rent rate why wouldn't they jump on it and hold on! 

    Great formula that is what I do as well. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2010 · 292 posts · 103 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jill F.:

    I manage small multi's in neighborhoods ranging from B- to D+. I have great tenants even in tough neighborhoods and I enjoy the work but @Jim K.has already outlined the difficulties of operating in these areas far better than I could. Moving forward, I'm trying to buy B properties in C+ - B neighborhoods.

    Having said that, If the hood is your only option to get started and you can understand AND RESPECT your low-income tenants, go for it. It is rewarding to offer decent housing in a space where it is hard to find. If you are not authentic with your tenants, they will know and your life will be hard. It is hard work no matter what and friends and familly may think you have lost your mind. Next time, you'll have built some equity and can buy easier properties.

    What??? You ask a landlord to respect his low-income tenants?  As if only high-income tenants get respect? I think the problem is too often the other way around. Tenant's don't respect the invesment and hard work I've put into providing them a decent place to live. For that, I expect rent to be paid fully and on time.  "Not authentic with my tenants?? What the hell does that mean?  

  • Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ed B.:
    Originally posted by @Jill F.:

    I manage small multi's in neighborhoods ranging from B- to D+. I have great tenants even in tough neighborhoods and I enjoy the work but @Jim K.has already outlined the difficulties of operating in these areas far better than I could. Moving forward, I'm trying to buy B properties in C+ - B neighborhoods.

    Having said that, If the hood is your only option to get started and you can understand AND RESPECT your low-income tenants, go for it. It is rewarding to offer decent housing in a space where it is hard to find. If you are not authentic with your tenants, they will know and your life will be hard. It is hard work no matter what and friends and familly may think you have lost your mind. Next time, you'll have built some equity and can buy easier properties.

    What??? You ask a landlord to respect his low-income tenants?  As if only high-income tenants get respect? I think the problem is too often the other way around. Tenant's don't respect the invesment and hard work I've put into providing them a decent place to live. For that, I expect rent to be paid fully and on time.  "Not authentic with my tenants?? What the hell does that mean? 

    I'll answer your questions in reverse order:
    "Not authentic with my tenants?? What the hell does that mean?
    Being authentic means that you act in accordance with your beliefs and values. Therefore, If you really think poor people are poor because they are losers, lazy, less "good" than non-poor people and don't deserve to be treated with respect, then you shouldn't manage low-income rentals.

    What??? You ask a landlord to respect his low-income tenants? As if only high-income tenants get respect?

    No. If you are in the landlord business you should respect your tenants regardless of their income level.If you think all tenants are losers because they are not owners then you shouldn't be managing any rentals at all (low, middle or high income).

    Here's some advice:
    If your tenants don't respect your property, look in the mirror to find your problem.

    For us, our most important stakeholder is not our stockholders, it is our customers. We’re in business to serve the needs and desires of our core customer base. ~ John Mackey

    He profits most who serves best. ~ Arthur F. Sheldon

  • Rental Property Investor · Greenville County SC / Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 403 posts · 120 votes
    6y

    @Quentin Mitchell

    I think you made valid points .

    I also think for anyone this is something a person has to be hands on and extra prepared for.

    Section 8 bible book is a great book

    Also connecting with other investors on bp who specializes in these area , that can give great tips on this can also help.

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2010 · 292 posts · 103 votes
    6y

    Hey, thanks for the clarification. I think everyone usually acts in accordance with their beliefs and values, although I'll admit I have occasionally rented to tenants I would have preferred not to because I had a vacancy to fill. Sometimes looking after the dollar instead of my values and beliefs is  a necessary and smart decision. So I guess I'm not always " authentic."  Hmmm.

    I agree, all tenants deserve respect regardless of income or education level, etc. That is never the problem. The problem is usually because a tenant is slow paying rent, or doesn't pay at all, or brings in unauthorized pets, abuses the property, etc. And when they do that  it's my fault?  Yes, if I failed at screening them properly, I'll take the blame, but if I screened properly and they still behave badly, it's always possible a bad one slipped through or they changed after moving in, etc. Tenants always deserve the best service you can give them, but for some  your "best" is never good enough. Those are the tenants I hope to be served by other landlords.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 105 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Robert Collins:

    @Quentin Mitchell

    I think you made valid points .

    I also think for anyone this is something a person has to be hands on and extra prepared for.

    Section 8 bible book is a great book

    Also connecting with other investors on bp who specializes in these area , that can give great tips on this can also help.

    I will check out the book and also anything that you jump in to, to be the best prepared as possible it will never be perfect also it is always great to learn and exchange information with other people.

    Good luck with your endeavor. (I love section 8 by the way)

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