My goal is to get my first deal (to househack) this year, but if I'm being honest with myself, I know that it won't be before the spring as Q1 at my day job is insanely busy. That said, my shorter term goal is to analyze as many deals as possible over the next 3 months so I can stay sharp and develop a better feel for values in the neighborhoods I am interested in. 

My question is this: How early (if at all) is too early to ask your agent to start sending you properties from the MLS?

I'm new to the agent-client relationship so I guess my biggest concern is that I want to be respectful of their time, although I do have every intention to move forward with this come spring. Let me know your thoughts! 

@Andrew McCartin a couple of things

1. You don't need a realtor to send you MLS properties, you can get that info from redfin or realtor.com etc.

2. If you are expecting an agent to pick out specific properties for you and not just send all properties that meet your parameters you are likely to be disappointed, while it would be great if they did that, most agents won't and even if they would it would probably be better to wait until you are closer to ask.

@Andrew McCartin it's never too early to start learning your market better or refine your buying criteria. If you have an agent you want to work with already I would have them set you up on an MLS "drip" (automated system that sends any new MLS listings that meet your criteria to your inbox) right away. If you see anything you like, let your agent know so they have a better idea of what you're looking for, and if you have time go look at as many properties as you can. You've got to kiss a lot of toads before you find your prince! I usually learn something or other every time I visit a new property. One thing about that though is you are committed both legally and ethically to using that agent if they are sending you properties. If you were to buy any properties they have sent you without using them, they would technically be able to claim they were the procuring cause of you finding that property and potentially sue you for their commission. Most agents probably wouldn't do that but just something good for you to know. It would be rude of you to have them put you on an MLS drip and then not use them to buy. You could also just set up a search in Redfin but the listings there are not updated as quickly as the MLS and if you're in a competitive market that could be the difference of getting or not getting a deal. Working with a (good) realtor is invaluable as well and once they know exactly what you're looking for they will likely find you deals you would have missed just looking at Redfin. Good luck!

Originally posted by @Aaron K. :

@Andrew McCartin a couple of things

1. You don't need a realtor to send you MLS properties, you can get that info from redfin or realtor.com etc.

2. If you are expecting an agent to pick out specific properties for you and not just send all properties that meet your parameters you are likely to be disappointed, while it would be great if they did that, most agents won't and even if they would it would probably be better to wait until you are closer to ask.

Agents take your criteria and put into into the MLS system and you get auto feeds simple as that U get every new listing that pops up that morning that meets your criteria .. this is how we buy property in many markets..

Originally posted by @Steve K. :

@Andrew McCartin it's never too early to start learning your market better or refine your buying criteria. If you have an agent you want to work with already I would have them set you up on an MLS "drip" (automated system that sends any new MLS listings that meet your criteria to your inbox) right away. If you see anything you like, let your agent know so they have a better idea of what you're looking for, and if you have time go look at as many properties as you can. You've got to kiss a lot of toads before you find your prince! I usually learn something or other every time I visit a new property. One thing about that though is you are committed both legally and ethically to using that agent if they are sending you properties. If you were to buy any properties they have sent you without using them, they would technically be able to claim they were the procuring cause of you finding that property and potentially sue you for their commission. Most agents probably wouldn't do that but just something good for you to know. It would be rude of you to have them put you on an MLS drip and then not use them to buy. You could also just set up a search in Redfin but the listings there are not updated as quickly as the MLS and if you're in a competitive market that could be the difference of getting or not getting a deal. Working with a (good) realtor is invaluable as well and once they know exactly what you're looking for they will likely find you deals you would have missed just looking at Redfin. Good luck!

Appreciate the thorough response! While I didn't know there was a legal obligation to purchase though the agent who sent the property, it makes total sense and I do fully intend to work with that agent anyway. 

@Steve K. Redfin updates every 15 minutes, if you need it faster than that you're missing out anyway

Originally posted by @Andrew McCartin :

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@Andrew McCartin it's never too early to start learning your market better or refine your buying criteria. If you have an agent you want to work with already I would have them set you up on an MLS "drip" (automated system that sends any new MLS listings that meet your criteria to your inbox) right away. If you see anything you like, let your agent know so they have a better idea of what you're looking for, and if you have time go look at as many properties as you can. You've got to kiss a lot of toads before you find your prince! I usually learn something or other every time I visit a new property. One thing about that though is you are committed both legally and ethically to using that agent if they are sending you properties. If you were to buy any properties they have sent you without using them, they would technically be able to claim they were the procuring cause of you finding that property and potentially sue you for their commission. Most agents probably wouldn't do that but just something good for you to know. It would be rude of you to have them put you on an MLS drip and then not use them to buy. You could also just set up a search in Redfin but the listings there are not updated as quickly as the MLS and if you're in a competitive market that could be the difference of getting or not getting a deal. Working with a (good) realtor is invaluable as well and once they know exactly what you're looking for they will likely find you deals you would have missed just looking at Redfin. Good luck!

Appreciate the thorough response! While I didn't know there was a legal obligation to purchase though the agent who sent the property, it makes total sense and I do fully intend to work with that agent anyway. 

Most agents will prefer to have you sign an Exclusive Right to Buy agreement with them which locks you in to working with them for a set amount of time (6 months is typical) before setting you up on the MLS drip. Their employing broker usually encourages/requires this. Every agent I've worked with was really laid back about it and promised to let me out of the agreement if things weren't working out. There are probably some uptight agents out there that would hold you to that agreement but if not's not working out it's usually beneficial for both parties to go separate ways at that point anyway. Agents do a lot of work for free on the front end so the "Exclusive" just protects them from investing their time in a client who then buys something without them either going directly to the seller or using a different agent. Just don't be surprised if you're asked to sign an Exclusive. Now is the time to make sure you've got a great agent.

Originally posted by @Aaron K. :

@Steve K. Redfin updates every 15 minutes, if you need it faster than that you're missing out anyway

You're correct to an extent on this. Redfin is a brokerage using an IDX feed like any other brokerage using an IDX feed straight from the MLS so it's the same data. How quickly it refreshes depends on the interface with the local MLS. Two separate MLS's actually overlap in my town (IRES and RE Colorado). They both syndicate to Redfin but I've found at times there is a significant lag with Redfin compared to the two MLS's, perhaps due to inter-system latency issues or having to pull data from two separate sources. I also find that in my area agents put a lot more info in to the MLS that doesn't get syndicated to Redfin. Perhaps the biggest disadvantage to using only Redfin compared to the two MLS's, at least in my market, is that the "coming soon" listings are much more extensive on the MLS than what Redfin shows. Redfin only seems to show a small percentage of the coming soons and many of those properties will go under contract before actually being listed so someone only using Redfin would miss out on all those entirely.

I imagine there is a disparity across the country in regards to Redfin vs. MLS. I like using the MLS better than Redfin personally in my market so I can see more agent's notes and comments, have access to showing info, get more in-depth info on properties than what Redfin shows, see upcoming listings before they're listed, set more granular search parameters, pull comps/create CMA's more easily and accurately, view info on past listings, see archived photos, access documents, schedule showings, etc.

IMO Redfin is the best out of the free search sites available to consumers and is just as accurate as Realtor (with better UX), because it's an IDX feed coming from the MLS but at least in my area the MLS still updates slightly faster and seems to be more accurate but perhaps that's just because of the two MLS's overlapping here. I bet there are other areas of the country where Redfin is not as accurate as well, such as rural areas. After all the data it pulls originates from agents manually entering it. Info is always better the closer you get to the source IME. Sucks having to subscribe to two MLS's though. My wife still just uses the Redfin app on her phone and looks at it more frequently than I do so a lot of times she shares listings with me through Redfin before I see them on the MLS lol.

@Steve K. Actually there's a lot more to procuring cause. Simply sending someone an MLS email feed would not be enough for suing for procuring cause as it could never be proven that if not for you sending that, the person would never have known about the property. An agent can actually show you properties and still not be procuring cause.

That said, if you take an agents time, they show you property and do things of value, you should use them, and why wouldn't you?

Originally posted by @Steve K. :

Originally posted by @Andrew McCartin:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@Andrew McCartin it's never too early to start learning your market better or refine your buying criteria. If you have an agent you want to work with already I would have them set you up on an MLS "drip" (automated system that sends any new MLS listings that meet your criteria to your inbox) right away. If you see anything you like, let your agent know so they have a better idea of what you're looking for, and if you have time go look at as many properties as you can. You've got to kiss a lot of toads before you find your prince! I usually learn something or other every time I visit a new property. One thing about that though is you are committed both legally and ethically to using that agent if they are sending you properties. If you were to buy any properties they have sent you without using them, they would technically be able to claim they were the procuring cause of you finding that property and potentially sue you for their commission. Most agents probably wouldn't do that but just something good for you to know. It would be rude of you to have them put you on an MLS drip and then not use them to buy. You could also just set up a search in Redfin but the listings there are not updated as quickly as the MLS and if you're in a competitive market that could be the difference of getting or not getting a deal. Working with a (good) realtor is invaluable as well and once they know exactly what you're looking for they will likely find you deals you would have missed just looking at Redfin. Good luck!

Appreciate the thorough response! While I didn't know there was a legal obligation to purchase though the agent who sent the property, it makes total sense and I do fully intend to work with that agent anyway. 

Most agents will prefer to have you sign an Exclusive Right to Buy agreement with them which locks you in to working with them for a set amount of time (6 months is typical) before setting you up on the MLS drip. Their employing broker usually encourages/requires this. Every agent I've worked with was really laid back about it and promised to let me out of the agreement if things weren't working out. There are probably some uptight agents out there that would hold you to that agreement but if not's not working out it's usually beneficial for both parties to go separate ways at that point anyway. Agents do a lot of work for free on the front end so the "Exclusive" just protects them from investing their time in a client who then buys something without them either going directly to the seller or using a different agent. Just don't be surprised if you're asked to sign an Exclusive. Now is the time to make sure you've got a great agent.

 

that's interesting Steve.. that's not common on the west coast at all.. I have never been asked that and I get feeds from about 20 markets I watch.. Nor is it ever talked about from brokers I know that own shops.. must be a regional thing.. I know they exist and have known this for decades.. just really never seen them used.. at least on the West coast.. sophisticated buyers wont sign them is my thought I know I would not.

@Steve K.   for me I don't want to have to go to redfin and search. I want the info to come to me every morning like it does its my routine.. I type on Bp on one screen and look at new listings on the other  LOL  I don't think I would only go on redfin or realtor.com if its a market I have never been in and want to find a realtor to set up my feeds  LOL> 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

Originally posted by @Andrew McCartin:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@Andrew McCartin it's never too early to start learning your market better or refine your buying criteria. If you have an agent you want to work with already I would have them set you up on an MLS "drip" (automated system that sends any new MLS listings that meet your criteria to your inbox) right away. If you see anything you like, let your agent know so they have a better idea of what you're looking for, and if you have time go look at as many properties as you can. You've got to kiss a lot of toads before you find your prince! I usually learn something or other every time I visit a new property. One thing about that though is you are committed both legally and ethically to using that agent if they are sending you properties. If you were to buy any properties they have sent you without using them, they would technically be able to claim they were the procuring cause of you finding that property and potentially sue you for their commission. Most agents probably wouldn't do that but just something good for you to know. It would be rude of you to have them put you on an MLS drip and then not use them to buy. You could also just set up a search in Redfin but the listings there are not updated as quickly as the MLS and if you're in a competitive market that could be the difference of getting or not getting a deal. Working with a (good) realtor is invaluable as well and once they know exactly what you're looking for they will likely find you deals you would have missed just looking at Redfin. Good luck!

Appreciate the thorough response! While I didn't know there was a legal obligation to purchase though the agent who sent the property, it makes total sense and I do fully intend to work with that agent anyway. 

Most agents will prefer to have you sign an Exclusive Right to Buy agreement with them which locks you in to working with them for a set amount of time (6 months is typical) before setting you up on the MLS drip. Their employing broker usually encourages/requires this. Every agent I've worked with was really laid back about it and promised to let me out of the agreement if things weren't working out. There are probably some uptight agents out there that would hold you to that agreement but if not's not working out it's usually beneficial for both parties to go separate ways at that point anyway. Agents do a lot of work for free on the front end so the "Exclusive" just protects them from investing their time in a client who then buys something without them either going directly to the seller or using a different agent. Just don't be surprised if you're asked to sign an Exclusive. Now is the time to make sure you've got a great agent.

 

that's interesting Steve.. that's not common on the west coast at all.. I have never been asked that and I get feeds from about 20 markets I watch.. Nor is it ever talked about from brokers I know that own shops.. must be a regional thing.. I know they exist and have known this for decades.. just really never seen them used.. at least on the West coast.. sophisticated buyers wont sign them is my thought I know I would not. 

 

It's fairly common here in my experience; sometimes when the MLS feed is set up and almost always before writing any offers. Lots of agents here trying to protect their turf; something like 1700 agents just in Boulder (more than all of Wyoming I've heard), and only a handful of properties changing hands every month.

Originally posted by @Steve K. :

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

Originally posted by @Andrew McCartin:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

@Andrew McCartin it's never too early to start learning your market better or refine your buying criteria. If you have an agent you want to work with already I would have them set you up on an MLS "drip" (automated system that sends any new MLS listings that meet your criteria to your inbox) right away. If you see anything you like, let your agent know so they have a better idea of what you're looking for, and if you have time go look at as many properties as you can. You've got to kiss a lot of toads before you find your prince! I usually learn something or other every time I visit a new property. One thing about that though is you are committed both legally and ethically to using that agent if they are sending you properties. If you were to buy any properties they have sent you without using them, they would technically be able to claim they were the procuring cause of you finding that property and potentially sue you for their commission. Most agents probably wouldn't do that but just something good for you to know. It would be rude of you to have them put you on an MLS drip and then not use them to buy. You could also just set up a search in Redfin but the listings there are not updated as quickly as the MLS and if you're in a competitive market that could be the difference of getting or not getting a deal. Working with a (good) realtor is invaluable as well and once they know exactly what you're looking for they will likely find you deals you would have missed just looking at Redfin. Good luck!

Appreciate the thorough response! While I didn't know there was a legal obligation to purchase though the agent who sent the property, it makes total sense and I do fully intend to work with that agent anyway. 

Most agents will prefer to have you sign an Exclusive Right to Buy agreement with them which locks you in to working with them for a set amount of time (6 months is typical) before setting you up on the MLS drip. Their employing broker usually encourages/requires this. Every agent I've worked with was really laid back about it and promised to let me out of the agreement if things weren't working out. There are probably some uptight agents out there that would hold you to that agreement but if not's not working out it's usually beneficial for both parties to go separate ways at that point anyway. Agents do a lot of work for free on the front end so the "Exclusive" just protects them from investing their time in a client who then buys something without them either going directly to the seller or using a different agent. Just don't be surprised if you're asked to sign an Exclusive. Now is the time to make sure you've got a great agent.

 

that's interesting Steve.. that's not common on the west coast at all.. I have never been asked that and I get feeds from about 20 markets I watch.. Nor is it ever talked about from brokers I know that own shops.. must be a regional thing.. I know they exist and have known this for decades.. just really never seen them used.. at least on the West coast.. sophisticated buyers wont sign them is my thought I know I would not. 

 

It's fairly common here in my experience; sometimes when the MLS feed is set up and almost always before writing any offers. Lots of agents here trying to protect their turf; something like 1700 agents just in Boulder (more than all of Wyoming I've heard), and only a handful of properties changing hands every month.

 

back in the day not too long ago, the auto feeds were done by a for fee third party vendor. So agents would have to pay for that service.

Then the MLS created their own and its free for the agents.. I like it because it comes from the agent and if I am interested I just hit reply.. much easier than redfin or Zillow I find.

It takes an agent a minute to set up an MLS drip with your parameters. It is an easy for them to assist you, before you are completely ready, without doing a ton of work on their end. An MLS-drip campaign does not establish procuring cause and if an agent wanted to sue because of that they would have to prove that you did not see the same listing on Zillow first, which they could never do. Procuring cause usually involves the first opening of the door to the property. Like if you contacting the listing agent and saw the property with them and then decided to get a buyer's agent. The listing agent would have procuring cause. (I am an attorney, but this does not constitute legal advice. Only informed opinion.) Agents who say they are going to sue over this are wasting their time. Real estate is a flimsy business, if you try to legally enforce your rights to a person's future intentions, it won't make for good future business agreements.

I've never used buyer agency agreements. I don't need a piece of paper to keep a client committed to me, when I still worked with buyers. If they want to leave, that's part of the business. If you have a relationship with an agent, give them your parameters and ask them to set up that drip as many said above. Once you see something you like, see if they will show it to you, even if it's early. Just explain when you will be ready to buy. If they know you are looking at their emails and using them to see properties, they shouldn't worry too much about you using someone else when you buy. It's their job to build the relationship as much as yours.

I've got a couple dozen people setup for my MLS email auto search. Some are under agreement, and some aren't. It's not that big of a deal. Just ask.

@Andrew McCartin As others said find a realtor who works with investors and they can set you up with automated emails whenever a property that fits your criteria becomes available. You can see how long places were listed, sales prices and price changes. If your realtor knows how much you can spend and what you are looking for, they can also be on the look out for new listings or places that might not be on the MLS yet.

Originally posted by @Karen Margrave :

@Steve K. Actually there's a lot more to procuring cause. Simply sending someone an MLS email feed would not be enough for suing for procuring cause as it could never be proven that if not for you sending that, the person would never have known about the property. An agent can actually show you properties and still not be procuring cause.

That said, if you take an agents time, they show you property and do things of value, you should use them, and why wouldn't you?

Thanks for clarifying Karen and @Jonathan Greene . Like I said it would be unlikely to get into a procuring cause situation with an agent over something like an MLS drip but still good for the OP to know what procuring cause is in order to avoid such a situation. It does seem like an area where agents and clients could get confused for example if a client has been working with a string of different agents and the time periods overlap a bit due to poor communication, let's say they both sent the same properties... one of the agents may get upset and think they had procuring cause or just open a complaint out of spite. Any situation with any subjectivity or grey area where lawyers can be involved is a situation to be avoided at all costs IMO. Best to set expectations properly up front when building a relationship with an agent, and not burn any bridges in this business.

@Steve K. Even in the case you cited, there would be no procuring cause. Sending emails to clients doesn't bind them to using you for purchase or listing with them. Now if there were a binding contract for services that would change. I've been in this business for 30 years and not once have heard of anyone being sued for procuring cause.

More important for OP is you don't want the reputation of jumping from agent to agent, or nobody will want to spend any time helping you as it would be a complete waste if their time.

@Andrew McCartin careful using realtor.com or Zillow as your primary source of property notifications. Depending on what market you are in, they are not directly fed by the MLS via idx. In Washington state for example they are nowhere near accurate because they are not 100% fed via IDX.

Lot of great feedback in this thread, so thank you to everyone who has given their input. The relationship I've formed with said agent is still in its very early stages (~ a month). I attended a local homebuying class that she hosted and met with her the week after for a one-on-one goal/strategy session. We've emailed back and forth a few times since and, while I really like her, she does not primarily work with investors (she said she has a few clients that invest, but the majority of her clients are your typical home buyer). 

I guess it all boils down to the fact that I am at a crossroads where I need to decide whether to work with her (based on her being a "good enough" fit) and proceed in asking for an MLS drip, or I stick with my gut and search for an agent with more experience working with investors before asking for a drip. I do sales for a living, so I know how crappy it feels to be burned by someone who doesn't respect others' time. Definitely don't want to burn any bridges!

Originally posted by @Karen Margrave :

@Steve K. Even in the case you cited, there would be no procuring cause. Sending emails to clients doesn't bind them to using you for purchase or listing with them. Now if there were a binding contract for services that would change. I've been in this business for 30 years and not once have heard of anyone being sued for procuring cause.

More important for OP is you don't want the reputation of jumping from agent to agent, or nobody will want to spend any time helping you as it would be a complete waste if their time.

Thanks for sharing your experience Karen. After looking up the legal definition I agree with you that setting up an MLS drip alone would not constitute procuring cause but that might not stop a slighted agent from pursuing a case or opening a complaint. I like to avoid any situation involving litigation, whether I'm right or wrong, it always costs time and money. I also agree with you such cases are rare although I have heard of them happening. Anyway a good thing for OP to be aware of.

Here's the legal definition, it does seem like emailing properties would be a part of a series of events establishing procuring cause but just that action alone would not be enough to establish it: "In the context of a real estate transaction, procuring cause refers to actions that begin or set in motion a serious of events that lead to the final sale of a property. Under some state laws, which vary by state, a real estate broker may be entitled to a commission as a procuring cause of a sale if the broker brought the purchaser and seller together and brought about a sale through continuous negotiations initiated by him, unless the seller and buyer intentionally exclude the broker."

https://definitions.uslegal.co...

Originally posted by @Jonathan Greene :

It takes an agent a minute to set up an MLS drip with your parameters. It is an easy for them to assist you, before you are completely ready, without doing a ton of work on their end. An MLS-drip campaign does not establish procuring cause and if an agent wanted to sue because of that they would have to prove that you did not see the same listing on Zillow first, which they could never do. Procuring cause usually involves the first opening of the door to the property. Like if you contacting the listing agent and saw the property with them and then decided to get a buyer's agent. The listing agent would have procuring cause. (I am an attorney, but this does not constitute legal advice. Only informed opinion.) Agents who say they are going to sue over this are wasting their time. Real estate is a flimsy business, if you try to legally enforce your rights to a person's future intentions, it won't make for good future business agreements.

I've never used buyer agency agreements. I don't need a piece of paper to keep a client committed to me, when I still worked with buyers. If they want to leave, that's part of the business. If you have a relationship with an agent, give them your parameters and ask them to set up that drip as many said above. Once you see something you like, see if they will show it to you, even if it's early. Just explain when you will be ready to buy. If they know you are looking at their emails and using them to see properties, they shouldn't worry too much about you using someone else when you buy. It's their job to build the relationship as much as yours.

In many state its the law to send out the agency agreement upon first contact.. that does not bind a buyer or seller to that agent its just the law of the state.. and really it just explains to the layman what agency is and who is represented by whom. 

@Jay Hinrichs In NJ, we have a Consumer Information Statement that explains the roles of all parties that is supposed to go out on first contact and can be attached to all MLS drip campaigns, but it's another one of those legal things that barely anyone does. Most people see the CIS for the first time when they are writing up their first offer as a buyer.

@Steve K. while I am sure it is not procuring cause, that does not preclude agents from trying to use it like that so your points are well taken. There are A LOT of bad agents out there who will say anything to lock people in. The buyer agency agreement can be a good thing for both parties, but it's just not for me.

@Andrew McCartin

If you want to save tens of thousands of dollars, don’t use an agent. I bought my last 6 properties going with the listing agents. They will want you to buy it since they will all of a sudden be getting full commission since you’re going with them. With that said, you will get the scoop on how desperate the seller is and what it will take to snag that property. They’ll make sure you get to view it right away and go all out for you. Trust me! I’ve been able to secure a few properties even by being outbid buy other buyers. It’s super competitive where I’m at. The agent on this last property I just bought gave me a shot at upping my bid at the last second. They clearly wanted me so they could get full commission.

You say you don't have time to look at the MLS. I don't either. However, I'm looking every day for fun when I have five minutes here and there on my down time throughout my day. I follow areas I like of homes for sale. I click the like button on Zillow and get emails when they go pending. This gives me a feel for how fast they sell at each price range. Before you know it, you'll get a feel for what is a great deal or not. This will save you a ton on buying. You'll probably be more up on good deals etc for your area and price range than an agent who covers all areas and price range.

But if you don’t care that much about having an advantage on good deals, then find a realtor to do this work for you and pay retail cost if you’re lucky enough to not get outbid in this compatible market for good deals. If you do that, I would just go with a turn key company and take something that is all set up. Buying at retail isn’t terrible. You just don’t get nearly as good of a return. But it’s hands off and some people would rather make only 5% doing nothing vs 10-15% looking on their own. Good luck!

@Andrew McCartin agent never! Why would you use and agent to send you deals  ?  They do not have the " deals, " other investors/ wholesalers do off market .  Also how can you look at a deal now with the hopes of buying it in a few months ,yes that IS wasting the agents time :)    If its a deal it will be gone a day or two. 

My suggestion is get to a net working group, and start learning.  Also  I assume you are not cash, so you need to get your money lined up so you are cash. If not you will have a very difficult time getting any good deals, if any at all. . You are competing against, close " as is "  in days vs , appraisals, inspections, loan, 30- 60 days. 

Good Luck