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All Forum Posts by: Steve K.

Steve K. has started 27 posts and replied 2573 times.

Post: Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829

Good luck to you sir. 

Post: Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829
Quote from @James Kerson:

@Steve K. I was talking about the listing side in my last few posts. The buyer side is a different (and more complex) animal. 

Ohio Real Estate Broker (active) here. Mostly a multifamily manager/owner, but bought and sold 15+ flips as principal. (Full disclosure: almost always I used an agent.)

Start by doing your first deal as an agent in order to get a better understanding of the business, then calculate your overhead/ operating expenses and you will quickly see what we’re all trying to tell you. Seems like you just pulled .60% out of thin air without considering any expenses that you will have. Google “overhead and operating expenses real estate brokerage” and do a little research. 

Post: Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829
Quote from @James Kerson:

@Steve K. I anticipate consultation time (10 hours on the listing side) would be a key feature of my offering. But my agents wouldn’t be prospecting for listings. Their only roles would be consultation and transaction management, done remotely, with no or almost no in-person meetings. Commissions mostly compensate agents for their prospecting success and not for client service. The actual client service of a listing is $40-60/hour work, not $200-300/hour work. With $60 hour and 10 hours worked per listing, plus $250 for photos, the direct costs of marketing a listing (again, assuming no or almost no drivetime) would be quite low - maybe $850/listing.

This makes absolutely no sense. How would an agent help price a property on the listing side or help evaluate a property and make an offer on the buy side, without ever going to the property and consulting with the client? Almost all of the valuable consulting happens at the property, face to face. What the way be consulting on if they haven’t even been to the property? Try doing a few transactions as an agent before starting this business, you will learn quickly why it will never work. Have you ever bought or sold a property before?  

Post: Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829
Quote from @James Kerson:

@Steve K. I think we’re talking past each other. Of course a la carte, tech-enabled DIY transaction management services exist, and have existed for a while. I’m not really proposing that. I’m proposing full-service brokerage, but slashing rates on the assumption that a brokerage can deliver 90%+ of the bundled full-service brokerage offering for 10% of the standard cost. 

The automobile existed for decades before Henry Ford produced the Model T. He was a clever man, but benefited from excellent timing. Established, mostly-German automotive technology coincided with the development of large-scale mass production techniques and a manure-pollution crisis in burgeoning U.S. cities to create massive demand for his product. I’m no Henry Ford, but I see an imminent convergence of regulatory pressure, existing tech, and the GenAI to bring all the existing tech together to make the full-service brokerage offering much cheaper and faster.

To carry the automotive analogy further, there will still be horses and still be Lamborghinis, but most residential transactions will be vastly faster, cheaper, and more standardized in 10 years than today.

The part you’re missing is that most buyers and sellers desire consultation with an expert and are willing to pay for it, because they see the value. There will always be inefficiencies in the real estate sales cycle because of that human inefficiency in making decisions. We’re not mass-producing automobiles here, so that’s an odd analogy. You’re not going to make an assembly line of real estate agents. I guess I just don’t see what is new or novel about your business idea. Of course existing brokerages are always looking for better systems, increased efficiency, and adopting new technology, but at the end of the day the job is still much the same as it was 100 years ago: customer service human to human. If your business model is different than options that already exist, I’d recommend improving on differentiating. How are you more efficient, and how on earth will you possibly make a profit charging only .60%? The math isn’t mathing. 

Post: Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829
Quote from @James Kerson:

@Steve K. Yes, agents upload listings. But how much is the function of uploading the listing to the MLS worth? What is the cost of the photos? What is the cost of the time to draft the listing description? All of these functions are necessary; they are simply too expensive relative to their value.

My blanket response to you and Jay Hinrichs is that real estate brokers and agents add value. They just add it inefficiently and expensively. There used to be legions of stockbrokers, and then in 1975, the SEC cracked down on commission-fixing. That didn’t kill the business, but it made possible the growth of discount stock brokers, who now dominate retail trading. Many stockbrokers became “financial advisers,” and say what one might about them, the best ones are both personal financial coaches and multi-product experts (securities, annuities, insurance, etc.). 

Something similar to your example with stock brokers actually already happened in real estate, when the regulatory agencies cracked down on commission fixing. There was a big, very famous lawsuit that ended price fixing in real estate. Prior to that lawsuit, Realtors all charged the same commission. It was actually considered a violation of the Realtor code of ethics to charge anything other than the standard, "fixed" commission rate. That lawsuit was US vs. NAREB and the year might surprise you because it was 1950. 75 years of negotiating commissions later, there are more real estate agents than ever before, so clearly real estate brokering is different than stock brokering. 

 Cheap a la carte solutions already exist for everything you mentioned. You can pay a flat fee listing service a few hundred bucks to upload a listing (you'll have to answer calls, schedule showings, set up a lockbox, get a sign, vet potential buyers, avoid scammers and people trying to sell you stuff, negotiate and manage the sale yourself). You can take photos with your iPhone (they won't be nearly as good as professional photos, 3D matterport tour, drone shot, sunset shot, layout drawings, etc.). AI can write a listing description for you for free (it won't be good). You can set pricing using the "zestimate" (it may be off by $300k like it is for neighbor's house right now). In many states, approved sales contracts are available for free online (you'll have to learn how to fill them out or pay a lawyer to do it, recommended to at least have a lawyer review). You can hire a transaction coordinator to handle the paperwork (they can't legally create contracts, just chase signatures).

 Where a good (operative word) agent's expertise comes in is doing all of these things and doing them all well, and not missing anything important, and also a million other things behind the scenes that protect their clients from being ripped off or sued or just wasting their time learning all the ins and outs of real estate transactions when there are experts they can easily hire to handle it all for them. Plus most retail buyers and sellers like having an expert on their team to ask questions and make sure they aren't making beginner mistakes on what is often the biggest financial transaction of their lives. 

It's not booking travel (travel agents are actually making a comeback now I hear btw) and it's not trading stocks, or driving a taxi, or ordering food, or scanning groceries (self-scan checkouts are also being removed from stores now I hear). 

Post: What to Expect at Eviction Hearing

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829

Yikes, very different experience than what I've had with the judges in my area. Where is this, Illinois? Judges seem to have a lot of time on their hands there. This should have been over in 5 minutes or less.  

Post: Inspection Report - How would this inspection report affect your offer?

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829

Have you ever been there? There are some active Jackson locals on here, I'd connect with them and ask them about this property. 

Post: Take my neighbor to civil court over dead tree?

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829

In my (non lawyer) experience John is correct here. It’s considered an act of god if a strong wind blows down a healthy tree that nobody expected to fall, but if a dead tree has been looking like it’s about to fall for awhile and the owner has been notified of the hazard it causes, then their inaction can cause them to be negligent in addressing the hazard, and they may be found to be liable. A certified letter is good because they sign for it, acknowledging receipt, any other forms of written communication you can get to document that they were notified of the hazard probably also helps. 

However if it’s a really big hazard and they fail to take care of it quickly, I might just take care of it myself rather than taking any legal action, personally. You can say it had to be cut urgently and try to get them to reimburse you after (may not be successful but at least the danger to your tenant will be gone and you won’t be sued by the tenant). These laws are state specific so check yours. 

Post: Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Steve K.:
Quote from @James Kerson:

@JD Martin You understand me correctly. I believe that the residential real estate brokerage industry should be a tiny fraction of its current size, with far fewer agents and total commission dollars paid. It would not be a terribly profitable industry, and a few large players (hopefully including my NewCo) would dominate the space. It would be volume-dependent. The trade-off that I don’t accept is that service would suffer. Service would change, though, as the successful experiences of early-adopter customers would demonstrate the utility and superiority of NewCo. (I remember when my dad bought some books from Amazon.com in 1996 or 1997; he wasn’t a pioneer, but he was a fairly early adopter, and immediately recognized the consumer value that Amazon brought.) 

Anyway, to build a massive discount real estate brokerage is my dream of the moment. I really appreciate the comments, which are exceedingly useful as my idea develops.

I should re-iterate that real estate agents shouldn’t and wouldn’t disappear. They should become like current-day travel agents: far fewer than pre-Priceline, but well-compensated for arranging high-dollar, complex trips.


 The equivalent tools to Priceline have been in place for the transition you describe to have occurred 20 years ago. People have been saying what you're saying for at least 20 years, probably longer also. Many people in tech with tons of smarts and funding have also tried to do what you are trying to do. 

Yet there are now more actively licensed real estate agents than ever before. Top real estate agents are still some of the highest paid sales professionals in the world. Why? My take as an insider is that it's because it's actually a much harder job than many might realize, and a consultative/ interpersonal/ hands on one that simply cannot be replaced easily with technology. 

For example at a typical showing, buyers like to have an expert with them who can help really evaluate a property, not just a door-opener as you seem to think will work. This may be what a small percentage of experienced investors or introverts want, but it is not what most buyers want and it is certainly not in the best interest of the public. The majority of buyers appreciate the expertise that a good agent provides (local market knowledge that can only be gained by being active in the market buying and selling all the time, looking at most of the new listings in person or at least online daily, a background in or at least understanding of building construction, relationships within the network of professionals in the industry doing deals, vendor referrals, legal protection through E&O insurance and keeping up with constant changes in approved contracts and required disclosures and forms, negotiating skills (the average person is terrible at negotiating directly and has no desire to, I find Americans are uniquely averse to negotiating and prefer to outsource it but I digress), etc.). No app or website or discount brokerage or whatever can replace the value that a good, experienced agent brings to the table for the average consumer home buyer. It's a lot more complicated than booking a flight, a hotel and a rental car for a vacation, and the stakes are so much higher.

You can spend many millions on building yet another discount brokerage to compete with all the others under the impression that real estate is the same as the travel industry if you want, or just take our word for it now that it's not. Honestly it sounds like you're trying to reinvent the round wheel with a square wheel here.

I think if you work in the field for a bit you'll have a better understanding. You'll need your broker's license prior to starting a brokerage anyway, so perhaps just focus on working towards that for now, and gain knowledge from that experience.  


Steve in my mind maybe this works for non owner occ investment props only and houses are vacant.. kind of like an OREO Broker works.

For owner occ and mom and pop buyers to move in and live.. this simply is a non starter in my mind.. .To be successful at Real estate sales to mom and pops you MUST have some sales skills and closing skills. Just letting buyers wonder through a house is going to be a big fat time waster..

To be successful selling RE you must be able to Qualify Present and then CLOSE most that wash out cant CLOSE.. I listen to MR. Lori and she is really great at the closing.. LIke she will talk to her client  ( Hey client i just found the home your going to buy) Not ask them what they think you have to be able to actually sell and this is a skill that some have naturally but it can be taught and boy it can be tough to teach as many just don t have the personality.

When i was coming up our weekly meetings were always round tables of how to sell how to present and how to CLOSE..  

Having a greater thats not going to cut it. Unless the market is SOOOO HOT that people are fighting for houses.

Right, I mean people use the companies with IDX feeds off the MLS now to schedule showings easily when they don't want to bug their agent, but then have their agent actually write the contract and handle the transaction. They don't trust the door-opener agent to handle the transaction because they aren't experienced agents, they usually just got their license recently or are part-timers without experience and closing skills. Funny how people will say agents are going the way of travel agents/the dodo because all of the listings are available online. Where do people think those online listings come from? Agents upload them.

Post: Tell Me Why My Discount Brokerage Idea Is Bad: Calling All Agents

Steve K.#2 Real Estate Agent ContributorPosted
  • Realtor
  • Boulder, CO
  • Posts 2,675
  • Votes 4,829
Quote from @James Kerson:

@JD Martin You understand me correctly. I believe that the residential real estate brokerage industry should be a tiny fraction of its current size, with far fewer agents and total commission dollars paid. It would not be a terribly profitable industry, and a few large players (hopefully including my NewCo) would dominate the space. It would be volume-dependent. The trade-off that I don’t accept is that service would suffer. Service would change, though, as the successful experiences of early-adopter customers would demonstrate the utility and superiority of NewCo. (I remember when my dad bought some books from Amazon.com in 1996 or 1997; he wasn’t a pioneer, but he was a fairly early adopter, and immediately recognized the consumer value that Amazon brought.) 

Anyway, to build a massive discount real estate brokerage is my dream of the moment. I really appreciate the comments, which are exceedingly useful as my idea develops.

I should re-iterate that real estate agents shouldn’t and wouldn’t disappear. They should become like current-day travel agents: far fewer than pre-Priceline, but well-compensated for arranging high-dollar, complex trips.


 The equivalent tools to Priceline have been in place for the transition you describe to have occurred 20 years ago. People have been saying what you're saying for at least 20 years, probably longer also. Many people in tech with tons of smarts and funding have also tried to do what you are trying to do. 

Yet there are now more actively licensed real estate agents than ever before. Top real estate agents are still some of the highest paid sales professionals in the world. Why? My take as an insider is that it's because it's actually a much harder job than many might realize, and a consultative/ interpersonal/ hands on one that simply cannot be replaced easily with technology. 

For example at a typical showing, buyers like to have an expert with them who can help really evaluate a property, not just a door-opener as you seem to think will work. This may be what a small percentage of experienced investors or introverts want, but it is not what most buyers want and it is certainly not in the best interest of the public. The majority of buyers appreciate the expertise that a good agent provides (local market knowledge that can only be gained by being active in the market buying and selling all the time, looking at most of the new listings in person or at least online daily, a background in or at least understanding of building construction, relationships within the network of professionals in the industry doing deals, vendor referrals, legal protection through E&O insurance and keeping up with constant changes in approved contracts and required disclosures and forms, negotiating skills (the average person is terrible at negotiating directly and has no desire to, I find Americans are uniquely averse to negotiating and prefer to outsource it but I digress), etc.). No app or website or discount brokerage or whatever can replace the value that a good, experienced agent brings to the table for the average consumer home buyer. It's a lot more complicated than booking a flight, a hotel and a rental car for a vacation, and the stakes are so much higher.

You can spend many millions on building yet another discount brokerage to compete with all the others under the impression that real estate is the same as the travel industry if you want, or just take our word for it now that it's not. Honestly it sounds like you're trying to reinvent the round wheel with a square wheel here.

I think if you work in the field for a bit you'll have a better understanding. You'll need your broker's license prior to starting a brokerage anyway, so perhaps just focus on working towards that for now, and gain knowledge from that experience.