Changing my Mindset - Any Advice?

Changing my Mindset - Any Advice?

Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 55 posts · 19 votes

I've been here listening and reading things on BiggerPockets for a few years now.

In December 2018 I finally decided to pull the trigger and buy my first house. I bought the house with the intention of turning it into a duplex and living in half of it. I was successful in that.

I also refinanced it to get my mortgage payment lower. And now I only contribute about $200 towards the mortgage and I cover all of the utilities.

And from there I thought I was good. Took a step back to admire my work. I was pretty proud.

And then I realized that I screwed myself (can I say that on here?).

First, I bought a house that appraised at the value that I bought it. Zero Equity. Terrible.

Second, at the time I was refinancing my house, my car died completely so in order to afford the car I had to combine all of my credit card debt into a personal loan to raise my credit.

Now, I have a Mortgage, Personal Loan, Car Loan, and Student Loans. My debt to income ratio is about 43% (or 35% with my tenant). And, according to the bank I only have 7% equity (Zillow and Redfin show me at 15%) in my house, currently.

Basically, moving forward with investments using this house, is a bust.

So I gave up. Had an anxiety attack. No hope.

I started scrambling to start other side businesses to make enough money for another down payment and repair costs. My goal was to get an extra 30k. Fast.

I started side business after side business. Trying to make that extra buck. But, they all failed. Just reinforcing my draw towards failure. I was starting to really give up. But I always have my heart set on escaping this rat race.

So I kept working, every chance I got. And then boom. Another mental breakdown. (Actually, happened last night).

But last night, I also had the truth thrown at me by some loved ones. I work too hard. I have really high expectations of myself. And, I'm just generally too hard on myself and don't give myself credit for what I have accomplished.

So, I decided to take a step back and regroup.

I'm only paying $200 plus utilities for my housing. That's pretty phenomenal.

I have a great work ethic. Sometimes a little too hardcore.

I understand the ins and outside of basic real estate. Not many people my age do.

My current house is a dead end in terms of investing. But one day it will be my greatest asset.

I have decided to become more serious about real estate and learn how to take hold of my situation and make it work for me. I will be attending local groups, talking to people, learning how they invest and start gathering new ideas that I might be able to use. Sometimes you just have to force yourself to take a step back and see where you're at, what you have accomplished, and where you can go from here.

If anyone has any comments or advice, I would love to hear from you. Thank you.

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Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

@Vincent Pirrone

First of, congrats on actually taking action with what you've learned here on BP and getting a deal. Also, as others said, with a $200/month house payment - that's not bad.

Second, I would turn these "problems" or "failures" or stumbling blocks into stepping stones to success. Here's a good graphic that illustrates this:

For instance, now that your debt to income ratio prevents you from getting a mortgage, this is an opportunity to learn CREATIVE FINANCING. I bought my first couple of deals without using banks through seller financing (which is a form of creative financing). You can also buy properties with the help of private lenders and credit partners (meaning, other people use their credit to get the mortgage for you - again, this is a form of creative financing).

The fact that you need cash, you can learn how to wholesale or maybe get a real estate agent license so you can sell houses as your side-hustle while allowing you to learn your local market (and your MLS access allows you to study your market deeper).

Real estate investing is like life. Sometimes you take one step forward only to take two steps backwards. But, when you learn from the failures and more so if you turn them into stepping stones, then success becomes a sure thing as long as you don't quit.

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  • Real Estate Agent · Member since 2018 · 209 posts · 115 votes
    6y

    Hi Vincent,  Thank you so much for sharing your story!  Real Estate (especially starting out) can be a whirlwind, but making sure you're making progress in the right direction is always key.  Real Estate Investing is truly about finding freedom in all capacities of life.  

    We're all in this real estate journey together and we ALL have properties that don't totally perform as expected.  We all fall on our faces.  We all fail at some point in one way or another.  BUT it is just part of the beauty in the journey because with each perceived "failure", we really learn how to get better and better with each transaction.

    And a $200 mortgage is stilll INCREDIBLY GOOD.  That's better than 99% of the rest of us with our mortgage payments! lol  

    Best of luck in your journey Vincent!! It only gets better from here. :) 

  • Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 55 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Taylor Hudgins Thank you so much for your advice and awesome support!

  • Real Estate Agent · Member since 2018 · 209 posts · 115 votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone Of course!!!  You're going to be awesome!

  • Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone - Can you you give a little more info about the home you live in?  how much do you owe and how much does the one side rent for?  Also, what do you do for a job?  How much excess cash does your job generate for you, per month?

  • Rental Property Investor · n/a · Member since 2019 · 143 posts · 117 votes
    6y

    Hey Vincent.  Congrats on your first property and being creative with how you went about it!  Looking at your profile and seeing you are a recent college grad, you are probably well ahead of your friends who are most likely living with their parents or paying rent.  To be only paying $200 a month plus utilities while owning a house and having that loan being paid down is a great way to get started.  I'm jealous sitting here with a monthly housing expense of about $1900 lol.

    There's no rush.  I just bought my first rental at age 30 and trying to figure out how to do the next deal.  I took a line of credit on my house and now have to pay back that balance before I can put it to use again, so I understand your situation.  You got started much younger than I did, and probably most of the people on this forum.  Just concentrate now on making a budget, analyzing your expenses, and saving as much as possible.  Even if it takes a year or two, that's okay because you'll be back with more knowledge and buy the next property. 

  • Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 55 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Brett Baginski that is really awesome advice! Thank you for your support!

  • Rental Property Investor · Augusta, GA · Member since 2017 · 825 posts · 278 votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone, I'll echo what other people are saying. You don't have to measure yourself against anyone else's yardstick. 
    While you are building up your reserves, this is a great time to network with your local community- you aren't a wanna be, you have a deal under your belt. That makes you obviously teachable, if you are willing to soak in the experience of other people who have done what you want to do. With your massive work ethic, I bet you can find creative ways to be of value to those more experienced investors, and that can turn into money or social capital. 
    There is a saying about perennial plants- the first year they sleep, the second they creep, the third they leap. Set yourself up to leap.

  • Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 55 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Amanda G. That is really great advice. Thank you so much!

  • Developer · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone

    First of, congrats on actually taking action with what you've learned here on BP and getting a deal. Also, as others said, with a $200/month house payment - that's not bad.

    Second, I would turn these "problems" or "failures" or stumbling blocks into stepping stones to success. Here's a good graphic that illustrates this:

    For instance, now that your debt to income ratio prevents you from getting a mortgage, this is an opportunity to learn CREATIVE FINANCING. I bought my first couple of deals without using banks through seller financing (which is a form of creative financing). You can also buy properties with the help of private lenders and credit partners (meaning, other people use their credit to get the mortgage for you - again, this is a form of creative financing).

    The fact that you need cash, you can learn how to wholesale or maybe get a real estate agent license so you can sell houses as your side-hustle while allowing you to learn your local market (and your MLS access allows you to study your market deeper).

    Real estate investing is like life. Sometimes you take one step forward only to take two steps backwards. But, when you learn from the failures and more so if you turn them into stepping stones, then success becomes a sure thing as long as you don't quit.

  • Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 55 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Michael Ealy that is really amazing advice. I will definitely look into all of those options. Thank you for taking the time to reply! Thank you!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · San Diego, CA · Member since 2020 · 33 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    My mantra this year is to not confuse "busy" or "working hard" with "productive."  I time block to make sure I am being as productive as possible, not just busy.  Since I have a lot going on professionally, and three young kids at home, I'm always busy, but I'm not always being productive!  

  • Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 55 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Henish Pulickal that is very true. Thanks!

  • Investor · Marin County California · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    The perfect is the enemy of the good.  You are off to a good start so pat yourself on the back.  

  • Edmond, OK · Member since 2012 · 456 posts · 270 votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone

    Ive recently been in the exact same shoes of despair as you currently are, so I’ve had to stop and take stock of why I keep ‘failing’ or feeling like a failure. That is when I realized, its my desperation to make it, my drive, my ego, and my impatience, which makes me grind my wheels too hard and make emotional decisions (rather can carefully studied ones), thereby leading to more failure.

    Real estate investing is the antidote for the impatient, because it forces you to lock up your money in equity and let the returns come in slowly and steadily. As you’ve tried, getting a side job to bring in extra money is a lot of effort.

    Do you have a W2 job? Hang on to it, it is necessary at your age for both financial and psychological reasons. With an 8 hour a day job to keep you occupied and deflate some of your drive to succeed, you will be less desperate to make investments which are not good for you in the long-term.

    You are worried that your first home purchase is appraised at the same as Zillow or whatever. We’ve bought several homes over the years, none of which were done through the eyes of an investor but through the eyes of a family wanting a certain home in a certain school district. Don’t be desperate when you have a great start in how you view your first home investment wise.

    Side note : Stocks may look attractive to make ‘extra money’. Don’t venture down that road. Your desperation will make you great losses. Stick with deliberate and slow and steady real-estate. It is less liquid and so wont flow in an out quickly based on your emotions.

    Another side note : Michael Ealy is awesome. I’ve been reading his comments for years now and there’s so much to learn from him. He is gracious to have responded to a ‘young newbie’s post from which he probably knew he wasn’t going to learn much from.

  • Developer · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 55 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    @Jai Reddy thank you for taking the time to read through my post and give me such great advice. Thank you!

  • Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana and Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 86 posts · 33 votes
    6y

    Hey man, don't beat yourself up about this.  At least you are in the game.  As a realtor and investor, I hear many people say that they want to buy real estate.  But most of them never actually pull the trigger.  So you've already accomplished what many people never will.  And getting started in real estate investing or anything worthwhile for that matter is never going to be a straight path.  But start and continue networking with other professionals, learn how to analyze deals, and keep pushing.  You'll eventually get there.  I do have one suggestion.  Pick one to two areas of real estate investing that fit and interest you and become experts in those areas.  The shiny object syndrome is real and deadly!  Best wishes to you in your endeavors!! 

  • Specialist · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2012 · 865 posts · 351 votes
    6y

    Real estate is a long term play. It wasn’t clear the intensity of the mental breakdowns you described, but if they were extreme then you may need to get professional help and mature a bit. The above comments of former posters were cheerleading enough so I’m not needed in that area of this thread. The disappointments you described is smart fries compared to the long term goal and life in general. I’ve been disappointed so many times in life, in people, as well as myself on occasions ... it is what it is. The person that told you to keep your regular job made since as that is mental therapy as well as income. If you’re used to always getting your way or winning etc then weclome to the big boy club were there is disappointments in the mix. 

  • Matthew Irish-JonesBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone why is this house a dead end? You are getting debt pay down every month, and hopefully some appreciation.

    Not everyone is buying houses that appraise for over the sale price. Every month you live there and pay your mortgage you are building equity.

    This is a long term wealth building strategy. Sometimes there are years in between acquiring houses. You may be 5-7 years away. Then you can refinance or take out a HELOC and buy more.

    Out of curiosity, what where the side business’s?

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  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    6y

    As lousy as your deal is .. it is still a better plan than 95% of the population has . Don’t beat yourself up instead do as Mike ealy suggested and use creative financing . I’m blown away by the folks on here that think you need to take out a zillion mortgages and be in hock up to your eyeballs to do this business . Learn creative financing and leadership skills and you can create deals fast

  • Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone. You gotta understand something. Rome was not built in a day. Failure is sometimes the foundation to success. My first Rental was bought at the top of the market, was at one time rented for $100 a month under the payment, I managed it from 3000 miles away and on and on. Today it works (12 years later). It taught me everything. I worked it, learned from it, and today it pays me. But I paid hefty for all those lessons. I would buy a house anywhere in the USA and not be afraid to try to make it work. I’ve owned 5 different business’s each with varying success. The key to any of them working is the determination to stick with it make the best outcome you can and go on with life. Your within $200 dollars a month of a break even situation with your house. What happens when you buy another just like it move into one half and rent both sides of the one you live in out?? Keep hanging on. Get another job and pay your debt down, don’t split your focus on real estate starting another business. Stay focused and keep moving up. Don’t set your goals out of reach. Make your plan and work your plan. When you hit a wall you change your plan enough to get around the wall and keep moving to the goal. The key is always set an attainable goal and then keep moving word it. RR

  • Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone. I forgot to mention I was 55 when I started out. I moved to Alaska with a dog, 3 duffel bags, and $100 in my pocket, and the payment for that 1st house. Not even enough money for a return ticket. I had a 90 day job hauling fish waiting for me. That’s it. Value of the house? 98,000. I owed 136,000. Figured I would lose it but determined to keep it. RR

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Don't worry about buying a house at the appraisal price. The reason it always seems to happen is the appraiser doesn't want to be in hot water in the event the property is foreclosed and so they tend to appraise the property VERY CLOSE to the asking price - all my properties that have loans have been within 2K of the appraisal price. One of them (a 4-plex) exceeds the 2% rule in a halfway decent part of town and I make over $200 a month per door despite my 10-year mortgage (I think the appraisal came in at 1K above what I paid). 

    The fact you're committed to learning is exactly what you need to do. You also need to learn how to both lower and manage stress because stress kills. So whether it's doing yoga, seeing a therapist, etc. please work to lower your stress. It's so bad for you.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hugo, MN · Member since 2014 · 283 posts · 257 votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone

    Paying 200 a month to live is absolutely phenomenal. Like others are saying, over time, this investment will pay off big time for you! Debt pay down, keeping your housing costs to a minimum, appreciation, tax benefits, plus the experience you gained converting a property into a duplex are all HUGE benefits that most people don’t have. So keep your head up.

    My main piece of advice for you is to pick one strategy, make a plan and work that plan. It sounds like you bounced around quite a bit with those side hustles from one thing to the next and that’s the reason none of them really took off.

    So, work hard, but make sure that work is focused. I think reading the One Thing by Jay Papasan could be good for you. Excited to hear what’s next for you and best of luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Annapolis, MD · Member since 2011 · 232 posts · 170 votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone congrats to you for having the courage to open up and share your story. Most would not be willing to. You have a terrific work ethic. Just keep plugging away and networking. Eventually you will make it happen!

  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Vincent Pirrone You reached out for advice.  So I'm not going to say good job and and help you feel better. Everyone else before me did that.  I will give you what you asked for.  You are associating with the wrong people.  If people are saying you are too hard on yourself or that you work too hard then take a look at their results and see if you want their results.  They may be well intentioned family members who love and care for you.  But if they are not where you want to be financially, then don't listen to them or take advice from them financially.  

    Your problem, according to what I read, is that you are doing this alone. It's great that you got started, but according to what you said, you put yourself into a finical position that is making it difficult for you to continue to move forward with investing. If you had sought out other experienced investors in your area, and explained your goals to them, they could have told you that the house you were buying was likely not a great investment.

    I don't write these things to be mean or unempathetic.  You asked what for advice and comments. So here it is. 

    1. Don't take financial advice from broke people (or people whose financial situation you don't want). Sometimes the answer is to work incredible hard for a period and a purpose.

    2. Don't invest alone. Network, connect with other successful investors. The better your network, the better your success.

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