Detroit Current Events

30 Replies

What does this have to do with real estate in Detroit? And why would you post this? 

Investors are interested in purchasing property in Detroit.  The crime is so bad that even the Mayor now is allowing residents to carry guns to protect themselves due to the slow response time of the police department.

Nancy Neville

Originally posted by @Nancy Neville :

Investors are interested in purchasing property in Detroit.  The crime is so bad that even the Mayor now is allowing residents to carry guns to protect themselves due to the slow response time of the police department.

Nancy Neville

Do tell, Nancy, what has the Mayor done to [allow] residents to carry guns?

It was the Police Chief and not the Mayor who spoke, so I do apologize for the error of thinking it was the Mayor. 

Nancy Neville

@Joshua Woolls

I think that Nancy is pointing out that violent crimes impose large costs on communities through lower property values, higher insurance premiums, and reduced investment in high-crime areas.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/report/2012/06/19/11755/the-economic-benefits-of-reducing-violent-crime/

Detroit has a high crime rate.  The high crime rate lowers property values in Detroit.

Ok Nancy, What has Chief Craig done to [allow] residents to carry guns?

LOL I have to have permission from the chief to carry all my guns?

LOL I didn't know that

Originally posted by @John T. :

@Joshua Woolls

I think that Nancy is pointing out that violent crimes impose large costs on communities through lower property values, higher insurance premiums, and reduced investment in high-crime areas.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/report/2012/06/19/11755/the-economic-benefits-of-reducing-violent-crime/

Detroit has a high crime rate.  The high crime rate lowers property values in Detroit.

Originally posted by @John T. :

@Joshua Woolls

I think that Nancy is pointing out that violent crimes impose large costs on communities through lower property values, higher insurance premiums, and reduced investment in high-crime areas.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/report/2012/06/19/11755/the-economic-benefits-of-reducing-violent-crime/

Detroit has a high crime rate.  The high crime rate lowers property values in Detroit.

I think it was a backhanded way to try to slander the city. Everyone knows that Detroit has high crime rates and there are issues in the city. 

The fact of the matter is though that the police Chief is from Maine and he attributes the relative safety of Portland Maine(hardly a war zone) to the fact that so many people had concealed carry permits. Nancy felt the need to pull a misleading headline out of the article and sensationalize it. It's almost as if she has a preconceived notion of what the city is like and she had an agenda and wanted everyone to agree with her.

Something that I did not understand about Detroit until I moved to this area is that there is a serious City Vs. Suburb divide. I am certain that it can be traced back to the race riots, but unlike the rest of the country, the Detroit metro never moved on. Now, we have a couple of generations of people that have fled the city and never go back unless it is to attend a sporting event or a concert. They literally sit in their homes in the burbs and spew rhetoric of hate and fear. Some of this hate and fear is justified and some is not. 

The fact of the matter is that Detroit does have issues. But much like every city in America, there are some areas that have more issues than others. There are more "bad" areas. Less "good" areas, and the good areas in Detroit are not as good as the "good" areas in other cities. You would never know this speaking to many of the people in the burbs though.

Times, they are a changing though. There are already areas of the city that have started the rapid ascent. There are areas that have stabilized. And there are even areas that are already "back". That being said, there are areas that are bad, and will never be better until they are wiped off the map and rebuilt.

In the last year and a half, Dan Gilbert has moved 17,000 Jobs downtown and he has incentives in place for workers to live in the city. The Illitch's(Little Ceasers, RedWings, Olympia entertainment) have moved 11,000(more) jobs downtown. Mars Advertising moved their headquarters dowtown. Ally financial just announced their move to downtown... That's 35,000(ish) white collar jobs moving into the city in a little over a year.

Nancy's post is designed to create fear. What good does that do anyone? It's unproductive at best. If we want to look at the city realistically, we could spend all day talking about the bad(and good things) that are going on, and we could have constructive conversations about how to fix some of the city's(many) problems. 

Joshua:  Says of me...

"I think it was a backhanded way to try to slander the city. Everyone knows that Detroit has high crime rates and there are issues in the city."

Well...I wasn't going to be drawn into the bait game, but the word "Slander" did it for me.

My husband was a Landlord for 30 years in the City of Detroit.  We owned 40 properties.  I had been a landlord for 13 years in the City of Detroit. 

I handled all my own cases and never lost one!  And if you ever have been to the District 36 courts system you would be in awe that I can say this!

My husband has been shot at and I have come too close for comfort from being beaten and robbed.  If it wasn't for people coming into the open house at just the right moment, I might not be here today.

I can't tell you how many bullets II have dug out of our homes and they weren't in the Ghetto. 

We have had our Furnaces Stolen, Copper Pipes, Siding off the houses, and water heaters in between renters.  

We paid  $36,000 a year in property taxes to have a slow Police response time or Fire Dept response time.   Thus the reason I posted this thread to begin with. It hasn't changed since we retired in 2009.

I have seen more stuff then most of you guys will ever see in a life time.  I was fortunate though, I had good tenants.  I had a long term relationship with them. WE respected each other and I feel good about that!

Slander the City?  Give me a break.  I lived it.  I spent every day in the City of Detroit, doing repairs, or court cases and I know how people live there.  I rented to people who lived there,  so I really know how people live there. 

Neighborhoods would dump all their junk on your yard if your home was vacant.  $1,000 it cost us to remove all the furniture and crap, TV's, Washers and Dryers, dumped on our rental lawn just before an open house, after we just spent $1,000 on removing the junk the last tenant left behind.  Crap all over the city of Detroit, laying on the streets everywhere. 

There are many things that I could tell you that I can't mention on an open forum, but believe me exists.  

So yea, you baited me, and I jumped in.  But I'll never go down without a fight.  

When you have seen and experienced all that I have seen and lived to tell it, then I'll say okay, I'll listen to you, but I don't think you would ever last as long as my husband and I did.

As I said, I receive many e-mails from people wanting to know about Detroit.  That is the reason I posted this, and for no other reason.  Let THEM  decide if they want to invest, but at least allow them to know the SCORE!  

You guys that trash me about talking about Detroit, if it's so darn good, why aren't you living there?  Lot's of beautiful houses there.  I don't see you knocking down the doors to move there.  And their cheap too? 

Just sayin!

Nancy Neville

"

think it was a backhanded way to try to slander the city. Everyone knows that Detroit has high crime rates and there are issues in the city. "

Nancy has 35 yrs. in the city streets of Detroit...LANDLORDING !!! I would be inclined to listen to her real experience's than evaluate what a wishful naive wanna bee will blabber about,  please do come back if and when you have some REAL positive information to share .

Originally posted by @John Neville :

"

think it was a backhanded way to try to slander the city. Everyone knows that Detroit has high crime rates and there are issues in the city. "

Nancy has 35 yrs. in the city streets of Detroit...LANDLORDING !!! I would be inclined to listen to her real experience's than evaluate what a wishful naive wanna bee will blabber about,  please do come back if and when you have some REAL positive information to share .

Nancy and her husband quit landlording in the city six years ago. Six long years ago and they spent the worst thirty years of the cities history riding the big wave down. I can understand why they are bitter. But using outdated experiences backed up with news taken out of context doesn't do anyone any good.

I have no doubt that the things that Nancy is talking about have happened. These things have happened in areas of most major cities in America(albeit not as severely as Detroit). I am not even trying to encourage people to invest in the cities as landlords. Especially not outsiders that do not know the city. There are reasons why there are $500 houses in the city and I can tell you it is not because the want landlords to scoop them up and make 5000% returns. They are $500 because literally nobody wants them.

The problem with Nancy's statement is that it is a blanket statement for a large city that just does not hold true for the entire city. It is also irrelevant as to investing in the city. 

I am not throwing out blanket defenses of the city and it irritates me when I see people throw out blanket condemnation of the city.

Originally posted by @John Neville :

"

think it was a backhanded way to try to slander the city. Everyone knows that Detroit has high crime rates and there are issues in the city. "

Nancy has 35 yrs. in the city streets of Detroit...LANDLORDING !!! I would be inclined to listen to her real experience's than evaluate what a wishful naive wanna bee will blabber about,  please do come back if and when you have some REAL positive information to share .

The problem with Nancy's comment isn't that she has a lack of experience with the city, or even that she has negative things to say about the city. The problem with Nancy's comment is that she has a complete misunderstanding of the article she has cited.  The article is about people obtaining legal permits to carry registered firearms in the city. This article is about people legally registering their firearms and obtaining CPLs to legally carry those firearms. Nancy's assertion that Mayor Duggan, and the that Chief Craig somehow have [allowed] people to carry firearms shows her complete misunderstanding of the issue. In this post Nancy has taken a sensationalized opinion article and further convoluted it with her own misunderstanding. By all means share your stories and experiences about Detroit, just make sure they are actually true. 

Originally posted by @Joshua Woolls :
Originally posted by @John Neville:

"

... 

Nancy and her husband quit landlording in the city six years ago. Six long years ago and they spent the worst thirty years of the cities history riding the big wave down. I can understand why they are bitter. But using outdated experiences backed up with news taken out of context doesn't do anyone any good.

...I am not throwing out blanket defenses of the city and it irritates me when I see people throw out blanket condemnation of the city.

This is an excellent summary!

 When I first came to Detroit I met lots of investors that had lost everything and recommended against Detroit.  But I would always ask "Do you think if I buy for $2000 the same house that you got foreclosed on owing $80,000 that I can make a profit?

You guys that trash me about talking about Detroit, if it's so darn good, why aren't you living there?  Lot's of beautiful houses there.  I don't see you knocking down the doors to move there.  And their cheap too? 

Just sayin!

@Nancy Neville

 I do live here. 

Originally posted by @Nancy Neville :

Joshua:  Says of me...

"I think it was a backhanded way to try to slander the city. Everyone knows that Detroit has high crime rates and there are issues in the city."

Well...I wasn't going to be drawn into the bait game, but the word "Slander" did it for me.

My husband was a Landlord for 30 years in the City of Detroit.  We owned 40 properties.  I had been a landlord for 13 years in the City of Detroit. 

I handled all my own cases and never lost one!  And if you ever have been to the District 36 courts system you would be in awe that I can say this!

My husband has been shot at and I have come too close for comfort from being beaten and robbed.  If it wasn't for people coming into the open house at just the right moment, I might not be here today.

I can't tell you how many bullets II have dug out of our homes and they weren't in the Ghetto. 

We have had our Furnaces Stolen, Copper Pipes, Siding off the houses, and water heaters in between renters.  

We paid  $36,000 a year in property taxes to have a slow Police response time or Fire Dept response time.   Thus the reason I posted this thread to begin with. It hasn't changed since we retired in 2009.

I have seen more stuff then most of you guys will ever see in a life time.  I was fortunate though, I had good tenants.  I had a long term relationship with them. WE respected each other and I feel good about that!

Slander the City?  Give me a break.  I lived it.  I spent every day in the City of Detroit, doing repairs, or court cases and I know how people live there.  I rented to people who lived there,  so I really know how people live there. 

Neighborhoods would dump all their junk on your yard if your home was vacant.  $1,000 it cost us to remove all the furniture and crap, TV's, Washers and Dryers, dumped on our rental lawn just before an open house, after we just spent $1,000 on removing the junk the last tenant left behind.  Crap all over the city of Detroit, laying on the streets everywhere. 

There are many things that I could tell you that I can't mention on an open forum, but believe me exists.  

So yea, you baited me, and I jumped in.  But I'll never go down without a fight.  

When you have seen and experienced all that I have seen and lived to tell it, then I'll say okay, I'll listen to you, but I don't think you would ever last as long as my husband and I did.

As I said, I receive many e-mails from people wanting to know about Detroit.  That is the reason I posted this, and for no other reason.  Let THEM  decide if they want to invest, but at least allow them to know the SCORE!  

You guys that trash me about talking about Detroit, if it's so darn good, why aren't you living there?  Lot's of beautiful houses there.  I don't see you knocking down the doors to move there.  And their cheap too? 

Just sayin!

Nancy Neville

Actually Nancy, you don't see me knocking down the doors to move there because you don't know me. We(my family and I) are literally looking to buy in the city at this very moment. And guess what, we aren't the only ones. I know that comes as a shock to you, but it is true.

I have no doubt that you are not lying about your experiences as a landlord in the city. And I agree, I wouldn't encourage many people to venture there. Especially people that do not know the areas, but I would be willing to bet that since you and your husband left the city, that there are areas that have changed quite a bit. There are entire neighborhoods that have been leveled. There are once solid areas that have turned into warzones. There are areas that have rebounded and had property values quadruple. Taking the police chiefs out of context remark and making it sound like the city is the wild west where people should not venture without a gun is silly. I assure you, I am in the city 3-4 times a weak(Not just downtown/midtown) and I do not carry a gun and have never felt the need to. There are absolutely areas that I do not travel through. 

The reason I have a problem with your post is not because you are trying to educate people. It is because you are trying to scare people. And please understand that things change with time. I am sure that the areas of the city that you were in were different when you started and when you left. Well, that degradation and rebuilding go both ways. Six years(especially the most recent six years) are a long time. Things have changed and will continue to do so.

Originally posted by @Nancy Neville :

Joshua:  Says of me...

"I think it was a backhanded way to try to slander the city. Everyone knows that Detroit has high crime rates and there are issues in the city."

Well...I wasn't going to be drawn into the bait game, but the word "Slander" did it for me.

My husband was a Landlord for 30 years in the City of Detroit.  We owned 40 properties.  I had been a landlord for 13 years in the City of Detroit. 

I handled all my own cases and never lost one!  And if you ever have been to the District 36 courts system you would be in awe that I can say this!

My husband has been shot at and I have come too close for comfort from being beaten and robbed.  If it wasn't for people coming into the open house at just the right moment, I might not be here today.

I can't tell you how many bullets II have dug out of our homes and they weren't in the Ghetto. 

We have had our Furnaces Stolen, Copper Pipes, Siding off the houses, and water heaters in between renters.  

We paid  $36,000 a year in property taxes to have a slow Police response time or Fire Dept response time.   Thus the reason I posted this thread to begin with. It hasn't changed since we retired in 2009.

I have seen more stuff then most of you guys will ever see in a life time.  I was fortunate though, I had good tenants.  I had a long term relationship with them. WE respected each other and I feel good about that!

Slander the City?  Give me a break.  I lived it.  I spent every day in the City of Detroit, doing repairs, or court cases and I know how people live there.  I rented to people who lived there,  so I really know how people live there. 

Neighborhoods would dump all their junk on your yard if your home was vacant.  $1,000 it cost us to remove all the furniture and crap, TV's, Washers and Dryers, dumped on our rental lawn just before an open house, after we just spent $1,000 on removing the junk the last tenant left behind.  Crap all over the city of Detroit, laying on the streets everywhere. 

There are many things that I could tell you that I can't mention on an open forum, but believe me exists.  

So yea, you baited me, and I jumped in.  But I'll never go down without a fight.  

When you have seen and experienced all that I have seen and lived to tell it, then I'll say okay, I'll listen to you, but I don't think you would ever last as long as my husband and I did.

As I said, I receive many e-mails from people wanting to know about Detroit.  That is the reason I posted this, and for no other reason.  Let THEM  decide if they want to invest, but at least allow them to know the SCORE!  

You guys that trash me about talking about Detroit, if it's so darn good, why aren't you living there?  Lot's of beautiful houses there.  I don't see you knocking down the doors to move there.  And their cheap too? 

Just sayin!

Nancy Neville

Actually Nancy, you don't see me knocking down the doors to move there because you don't know me. We(my family and I) are literally looking to buy in the city at this very moment. And guess what, we aren't the only ones. I know that comes as a shock to you, but it is true.

I have no doubt that you are not lying about your experiences as a landlord in the city. And I agree, I wouldn't encourage many people to venture there. Especially people that do not know the areas, but I would be willing to bet that since you and your husband left the city, that there are areas that have changed quite a bit. There are entire neighborhoods that have been leveled. There are once solid areas that have turned into warzones. There are areas that have rebounded and had property values quadruple. Taking the police chiefs out of context remark and making it sound like the city is the wild west where people should not venture without a gun is silly. I assure you, I am in the city 3-4 times a weak(Not just downtown/midtown) and I do not carry a gun and have never felt the need to. There are absolutely areas that I do not travel through. 

The reason I have a problem with your post is not because you are trying to educate people. It is because you are trying to scare people. And please understand that things change with time. I am sure that the areas of the city that you were in were different when you started and when you left. Well, that degradation and rebuilding go both ways. Six years(especially the most recent six years) are a long time. Things have changed and will continue to do so.

Just sayin'

Joshua Woolls

LOLLLL Josh so mad.

@Ray Foley

i am confused as to what you are trying to say? there is a lot of crime and a lot of murder going on in detroit. the police chief is ENCOURAGING people to carry more guns on them, which will therefore, deter the bad guys from doing bad things, which means less crime, which then! (surprisingly enough) means that a community can start being built again.

not sure what you are misunderstanding.

yes, you are right that the mayor/chief have not "allowed" citizens to carry guns, but there seems to be a more underlying problem that you are angry about.

@Joshua Woolls

josh. 40% of detroits population lives below poverty line. the corruption in detroit is absolutely ridiculous. they have the highest murder rate in the country for 2-3 years in a row and one of the highest (if not the highest) unemployment rates in the country.  if BLS unemployment numbers included people who choose not to work, those numbers would be even higher!

So lets be serious now... talking about being downtown, where the state put a one mile radius around the isolated communities where they are able to preserve the neighborhoods, does not represent what makes up most of the detroit experience of the hoods and ghettos. 

anywhere in the world has its good areas and its bad areas. but detroit has more bad areas than most.

Originally posted by @Danny Woodson :

@Joshua Woolls

josh. 40% of detroits population lives below poverty line. the corruption in detroit is absolutely ridiculous. they have the highest murder rate in the country for 2-3 years in a row and one of the highest (if not the highest) unemployment rates in the country.

So lets be serious now... talking about being downtown, where the state put a 1.1 mile radius around the isolated communities where they are able to preserve the neighborhoods, does not represent what makes up most of the detroit experience of the hoods and ghettos. 

anywhere in the world has its good areas and its bad areas. but detroit has more bad areas than most.

No arguments there. And I'm not mad. I don't think there is one place on these forums where i have said that there are not significant problems in the city.

Nancy's comment was misleading and frankly it was a bit ridiculous to act as if the police chiff said that Detroiters should carry guns because the city is so bad that they need to protect themselves. Actually, the police chief said that people should(lawfully) carry guns because(he believes) it is a deterrent to crime. He believes that one of the reasons that Portland, Maine is safe is because of the high rates of concealed carry.

Hey, if miss Nancy has had bad experiences in the city, by all means share them. But let's be adults and use facts. Let's not selectively quote a news story and spin it in a way back up our worldview.

This is my last post on this topic, and perhaps I won't discuss Detroit again on here because I really don't need such accusations made about me based on an article I posted called Detroit Current Events and then posted a link.  

I didn't expect such a response.  It just goes to show the injustice there is in this world.  

You know, it's pretty bad when Detroit is in the news all the time. Not just local but nation wide.  It wasn't me taking anything out of content that Greg Gutfield reported on. I said nothing, I just posted a link.  

To be quite truthful with you, I don't like hearing about Detroit, but my husband listens to the radio everyday about Detroit, so I listen to it when I'm cooking dinner.   And on a daily basis all I hear on the news is a murder here, a robbery there, a break in here, and a child murdered there.  How can I say nice things about Detroit, when there is nothing nice being reported about Detroit?

My generations of family have lived in Detroit all our lives.  It was once a proud City!   I want to see it again be a proud city.  I'm also in Real Estate (Real Estate Sales Person) and I wont' sell in Detroit.  

Yes, I retired 6 years ago, and progress is being made, but they work on everything else but the CRIME!  So I was happy to hear about the  gun permit thing, but it also proved my point, that something was needed to help fight the crime and that was allowing the residents to carry.  (And yes they carried anyway to protect themselves, but now it's legal) 

And that's what Detroit needs.  People who are able to fight back! Once the bad guys see that they have a fighting army against them armed, they won't be so brave, and then one day, maybe, Detroit will come back, but not until then!

What do I have to gain by telling people to wait till Detroit gets better before investing there? Nothing, absolutely nothing.  I do it because I care about you young people with families, with hopes and dreams.  I don't want you to lose your savings!  You out of state investors, I know you don't know the reality of it all.  I only do this because I care.  I don't want you to lose what you worked so hard for.  But if my 2 cents is not worth it and it makes me sound bitter to speak the truth, then I will refrain from doing so and let the chips fall where they may.

But what a shame for me to have so much experience in landlording in the City of Detroit and in Real Estate for you not to listen to what I have to say or believe me.  But I can't make you believe me!  And then, you will always have the  Rays  or a Joshs  that will say everything is peachy creamy and I've taken things out of context or am implementing fear!

It's pretty bad when one goes on vacation, takes a cruise, sits at a table on the Ship and the people who live in France, who barely speak English, who is also sitting at the table, asks where you're from and you say Detroit, and they say "Oh, bang bang shoot em up", and you hang your down in embarrassment and say yea.  If we have a reputation that is known all over the world, how can you blame it on Nancy Neville taking everything out of context?

What I say about Detroit is not out of being bitter, it is out of PASSION!  Because I want it to come back, but it's not ready and I don't want anyone investing without knowing the score!  I'd want someone to tell me the good, bad and the ugly, don't you?

But I know that you Josh will be back to respond or you Ray too, and you'll say something else to discredit me.  But there is nothing I can do about that.  I have to leave it up to the readers of this post.  I've done all that I can.

So that's all I have to say.

The floor is yours!

Nancy Neville

Originally posted by @Danny Woodson :

@Joshua Woolls

josh. 40% of detroits population lives below poverty line. the corruption in detroit is absolutely ridiculous. they have the highest murder rate in the country for 2-3 years in a row and one of the highest (if not the highest) unemployment rates in the country.  if BLS unemployment numbers included people who choose not to work, those numbers would be even higher!

So lets be serious now... talking about being downtown, where the state put a one mile radius around the isolated communities where they are able to preserve the neighborhoods, does not represent what makes up most of the detroit experience of the hoods and ghettos. 

anywhere in the world has its good areas and its bad areas. but detroit has more bad areas than most.

And although I brought up downtown as an example of where things are picking up, I am not trying to say that is the only area of the city that is not a warzone.

Indian Village, Palmer Woods, Boston Edison are all amazing neighborhoods.

John Berry, Sherwood Forest, University District and Rosedale Gardens are pretty damn decent.

East English Village, West Village, Corktown and Mexican town are respectable places.

Yes, there are more Brightmoors and Burbanks than good areas, but that does not mean the entire city is lost and that we should just wall it up and hope that Detroiters don't move into our suburban neighborhoods.

Accidental double post.

Free eBook from BiggerPockets!

Ultimate Beginner's Guide Book Cover

Join BiggerPockets and get The Ultimate Beginner's Guide to Real Estate Investing for FREE - read by more than 100,000 people - AND get exclusive real estate investing tips, tricks and techniques delivered straight to your inbox twice weekly!

  • Actionable advice for getting started,
  • Discover the 10 Most Lucrative Real Estate Niches,
  • Learn how to get started with or without money,
  • Explore Real-Life Strategies for Building Wealth,
  • And a LOT more.

Lock We hate spam just as much as you

Join the Largest Real Estate Investing Community

Basic membership is free, forever.

By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions.