Real Estate Investor · Malvern, PA · Member since 2011 · 72 posts · 8 votes
I'm in the process of selling a vacant plot of land and the consensus from the neighbors is that 50-100 years ago the Township was using this site as a trash dump. There was a house built on the land in the late 60s, but it was demolished a few years ago because of foundation issues attributed to the underlying soil.
The Township says that they know there are "soil issues" with the property, but they won't say how they know this. They claim to have no records of any such soil issues. I'm assuming they have to have some sort of basis for saying this other than gossip.
Is there a way to find out if there really was a trash dump on the property? I thought about heading the County Courthouse, but I don't even know what department might have this information.
Many public libraries have historical archive collections. There will often be land records, city plats, etc. there. If this area was used as a dump it should not be that difficult to find the records. If your library has a reference librarian on staff they may be happy to help you find what you are looking for?
Many public libraries have historical archive collections. There will often be land records, city plats, etc. there. If this area was used as a dump it should not be that difficult to find the records. If your library has a reference librarian on staff they may be happy to help you find what you are looking for?
Well you dont know for sure it was a dump , its speculation from the neighbors . Now you do the research and prove it was a dump . So with all your hard work you devalue the property you are trying to sell . Once you find out the truth you would be required to disclose . Dont look for the truth .
Well you dont know for sure it was a dump , its speculation from the neighbors . Now you do the research and prove it was a dump . So with all your hard work you devalue the property you are trying to sell . Once you find out the truth you would be required to disclose . Dont look for the truth .
This was my initial thought, too. I've only posted part of the story, though.
I listed the lot for sale and within a week I had several offers. This was an attempt at an immediate flip, as I had acquired it from a bank a few weeks earlier . I told everyone we were going to a "highest and best" situation. All of the potential buyers disappeared.
I accepted another, lower offer from a builder who told me that the Township told him there's a sinkhole on the property. I called the other people who made offers and they were told the same thing by the Township.
I contacted the Township and requested any documents they had pertaining to a sinkhole. They claim they have no records at all, but that whoever buys the property must have a soil coring test done. Why? Especially if they have no evidence of any issues!
The house that was there was demolished, but not removed. The Township buried it! Insulation, wood, siding, concrete, etc! I suppose they figured that no would ever find out since there may be other debris buried there, but my buyer found it while digging test holes. The Township claims they have no records or any documentation regarding the demo, but I have proof that they oversaw it and paid for it.
Basically, I'm trying to do some "digging" to see how long the Township has been polluting this lot and covering it up (literally and figuratively).
Somebody probably got paid to tear it down. Figure out about when the house was last standing . Using the freedom of info act , look at the towns spending or their bid board history .
Somebody probably got paid to tear it down. Figure out about when the house was last standing . Using the freedom of info act , look at the towns spending or their bid board history .
The house was demolished in 2014. I have the minutes of the Township meetings where it was discussed. I also have an email from the Constrcution Code Official saying the Township had it demolished at their expense. I filed a Right-To-Know Request with the Township and that's when they told me that they have no documentation on the dump/sinkhole issue, nor the demolition of the house.
Core tests with a local soils engineering firm. Or, get an excavator for half a day or so, and dig a bunch of test holes. I like the latter better.
The buyer did have an excavator out and dug several test holes. I'll have to find out how deep he dug, but he told me that all they found was the buried house. The other test holes came up clean.
Sometimes you can get a hint from looking at USGS topo maps. Zoom in on that map to the area of interest, then click the "Mark Points" button and click anywhere near the lot to set a marker. Click on the marker and you should get a list of available maps, which you can then view or download for free. For Malvern, there are fairly detailed maps back to 1955, and ones at a larger scale (Phoenixville) back to 1906.
It seems weird that the township would tell a buyer that there's a sinkhole, but then clam up when you ask about it. Maybe look at the surrounding properties and figure out if they belong to the township foreman's brother-in-law or something. :) Or, get a friend that the township has never talked to before, and have him or her pose as a potential buyer and call the township. (Extra credit: record the call and then give it to the local paper if it's interesting...)
I did just that, except I didn't record the call. I also created a fake name and email address. Here's what I was told when I asked if rumors of a sinkhole were true:
"The home was demolished at Township expense due to a subsidence issue. Before any construction may begin, an engineer suitable to the Township shall provide geo-technical engineering and reports to confirm the adequacy of this building lot for construction."
If you have any suggestions for what to ask in a follow up email, I'm all ears.
I did just that, except I didn't record the call. I also created a fake name and email address. Here's what I was told when I asked if rumors of a sinkhole were true:
"The home was demolished at Township expense due to a subsidence issue. Before any construction may begin, an engineer suitable to the Township shall provide geo-technical engineering and reports to confirm the adequacy of this building lot for construction."
If you have any suggestions for what to ask in a follow up email, I'm all ears.
In my area you have to get a geotech report to build a house. Why not get one done and put an end to the speculation and searching? It's around $1300; what sort of profit are you looking at on the property? If you spend an extra $1300 and now have a marketable property, could you then mark up the property by $1300?