Duplex appraisal value 11K under contract price...now what?

Duplex appraisal value 11K under contract price...now what?

Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes

I just received my appraisal back on my first property (duplex).  It came back 11K under the purchase price agreement.  Not really sure what to do now.  Any advice?

I reached out to my agent already.  She unfortunately had a death in the family yesterday so of course I don't want to bother her with this right now.

I know I can go back to the seller and ask for a price reduction to meet market value.  Not sure what to expect from that.  If he does not agree it seems that it would not be wise for me to continue with the purchase.  Unfortunately, I've already paid for the inspection and appraisal (~$1200) so that is going to sting if I have to walk away.  Better that than paying way to much I suppose.

This is surprising to me because the same seller placed 3 duplexes in the same neighborhood on the market at the same time.  All were within $6K selling price.  The one I was able to get the contract on was the cheapest of the 3.  Both of the other duplexes had contracts on them within a week of hitting the market.  I was told by my agent that one paid full ask price and the other was a cash deal, but not sure for how much.

Based on that, my assumption was that these were all priced appropriately so I made an offer.  My first offer was low, which he refused.  After a few back and forths, I finally got an offer accepted, but only got him to come down 1K from asking price.

The seller is out of state now and he is set to close on all 3 of these the same day.  So I feel like he will be willing to move on the price some just not sure how much.

If he wont come down to appraised value is there a scenario in which it would make sense for me to pay more?  

Also what I should have done differently so that I didn't end up in this situation to start? 

On top of all this I feel pretty silly for almost paying way to much for this property.  I thought I was getting the hang of analyzing properties.  Clearly I need more practice.  Ha.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

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  • Realtor · Nolensville, TN · Member since 2016 · 94 posts · 29 votes
    9y

    @Brad E. I wouldn't pay 11k over the appraisal value. Of course, sometimes appraisers aren't very good. When buying a property, especially using a loan, the agent should be there during the appraisal to make sure they know the comps in the area and to get you an appraisal that is right.

    If you're getting a loan, the bank probably won't let you purchase it for anything over the appraisal. If you're paying cash, do the numbers still work even for 11k over? Maybe they do and it makes sense to move forward because the numbers work. That may be why the others are moving forward with their deals. They might not be running the numbers correct though so I wouldn't just assume it's worth it because they're buying it for a higher price.

    Also, you're using an agent, he/she should be getting you the market value and suggesting what to offer. You're paying them for their service, I would let them do that and you analyze the rental numbers part of it. I trust my agent to run the comps and analyze what a property's market value is. I only trust myself when running the rental numbers.

    Good luck!

  • Attorney · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 33 votes
    9y

    I think it depends on how good the deal is. If it's still a good deal at 11k more than anticipated then why not stay in it. If 11k more really throws off your numbers then obviously walk away. Ideally though, you would ask the seller to bring down the price or try to negotiate the 11k in some way. As to how to avoid in the future, your agent should make sure that what you are buying is properly priced according to the market and area. 

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    Yeah, I'm feeling a little let down here by my agent to be honest, but I realize the ultimate responsibility is mine.  

    For a little more context here are the original numbers:

    Ask: 88K

    Agreed: 87K + seller pay 1500 closing

    Appraised: 76K

    So 11K is a pretty big difference when we are talking about numbers this low.... ~14%!

  • Realtor · Nolensville, TN · Member since 2016 · 94 posts · 29 votes
    9y
    @Brad E. That is your agents job. Your right, that is way off for that low of numbers. Sorry if your agent is a friend but sounds like either your agent isn't very good or didn't care to do much research because of the low numbers and low commission.
  • Rental Property Investor · Pasadena, CA · Member since 2016 · 164 posts · 149 votes
    9y

    Is the appraisal actually correct? Remember, people perform these appraisals and therefore there is some subjectivity, which can be wrong. 14% is a lot but who knows

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    @Michael Lucero

    I suppose it is.  I really don't know enough to say, but the lender (BofA) says they have list of 'approved appraisers' that they randomly choose from.  It's hard for me to argue with that, especially with my very limited experience.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 40 posts · 18 votes
    9y

    Hey Brad,

    To me, as a Realtor, it's mostly a win for you. In May I purchased my first home in Portland, Oregon. I was at a point that I REALLY wanted to buy and move into something new to start my journey. I was one of two offers. The listing agent told me there was one other offer that was higher than mine but told me she would love to work with me and to give her my highest and best. I loved that the house was brand new, 2017 build. So I went 8k over asking. Portland is a hot market still. I got the house. Appraisal came, and ended up being the listing price. Luckily I bought one side of a townhouse, which just sold recently for the list price. So I, as a Realtor and a Buyer, had to make a decision. Do I negotiate, do I do 8k cash on top, do I take back my offer, do I ask for list price now? I sent an addendum changing the purchase price to the original list price. Seller accepted. Appraisal ended up saving me 8k.

    Hopefully this will happen to you too. Save money and get your house!  It is your Realtor's duty to guide you with a recommended price to offer, but no one is perfect. We are all human.

    Good luck!

  • Sam L.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Joliet, IL · Member since 2014 · 163 posts · 85 votes
    9y

    What do the numbers say? If it cash flows and before the appraisal you were willing to pay 87K what does it matter if it apprised for less? Obviously, this is a good chance to negotiate a lower price but if the numbers work, than move forward.

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    Yeah, I just spoke with my agent (she's been out of office) and she is going to take the appraisal back to the seller and ask for reduction.  Best case they will lower the price to appraised value.  Worst case I walk away and take a $1200 lesson home with me.  I'm prepared for either.

    The good news is I HAVE learned a lot so far and have retraced every step of the way to identify exactly what I could have done to avoid this situation to start.  

    I'll update this thread with the outcome.

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2017 · 343 posts · 102 votes
    9y

    @Brad E.- If house is not worth $87K , try to get $1200 and be prepared for lesson. Not having many details I believe the price is at top of the market. I would look for appraisal numbers like $115K market value, $171K rental value and XX for rebuild ($275K - Guess).

    Good Luck

    Vivek

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    Update:

    The seller has reviewed the appraisal and say they are going to appeal it, citing some other properties that were not the comps used by my appraiser.

    My understanding of this is that the seller will have to pay for an appraisal and then send that over to my lender, at which point, the lender will either agree or disagree with the new appraisal.

    I don't know what paths this could take after that. My agent says she has never dealt with an appeal before.

    The properties the seller cited are in the same neighborhood, with sale dates of 1/2016 and 11/2016. It looks like my appraisal is using data from up to 12 months prior so I'm not sure why she wouldnt have considered the one that sold last November.

    The saga continues...

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 160 posts · 76 votes
    9y

    Interesting thread Brad.  The property from 01/16 seems a bit old to be considered as a comp, no?

    Hope the appeal works out in your favor!

  • Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 213 posts · 60 votes
    9y

    @Brad E.  get your agents opinion. Negotiate - with seller, with the bank that ordered the appraisal. If it is still a great deal and you have the money close it. 

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    @Bill Regan

    Yes, I was thinking that was pretty old too.  Apparently the seller does not :)

    Haven't talked to my lender or agent yet today so nothing new to share yet.

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    Yesterday afternoon my agent called me about 5:00.  She said that the seller/seller agent is going to move forward with the appeal process.  

    Apparently this process can take up to 10 days according to my lender.  The problem with that is my financing contingency expires on Monday at midnight.  My agent let me know we can file an extension though to allow for extra time.  

    All that sounds fine but here's where I'm running into trouble, because some of the other things she is telling me aren't making sense.  

    My agent says that the seller is saying no matter how the second appraisal comes back he's not going to come down to the appraised amount if he thinks it's low still, or much at.  Furthermore, he says he has a line of cash buyers waiting if this doesn't go through.  

    My last question for my agent before hanging up was at what point can the seller walk away from the deal, to which she replied that he can walk away at any time he wants all the way up to closing.

    With that said, here's what I'm having making sense of - 
    1. If the seller can walk away at any time he wants, what is the purpose of the purchase/sale agreement?  It seems like it would be very common for a seller to back out of any deal when the next guy offers him an extra dollar on the purchase price. (I read the purchase agreement before signing, but I need to go back and read it again to see what it says about this)

    2. If he has cash buyers lined up then why would he even bother with the appraisal appeal?  That is going to cost him ~$800 out of pocket to get another appraisal.  I cant think of any circumstance that would make sense.

    3.  Similar to #2, if he is firm on his price is, and very confident in the value of it, why would he pay out of pocket for another appraisal? 

    When my agent and discussed filing the extension on financing contingency, I said lets go ahead and do it, in order to give the seller more time to respond, to which she agreed.  Later last night she sends me a text message and said she wanted to talk to the appraiser today before filing the extension.  I said ok, but I'm not really sure what talking to the new appraiser would accomplish. Haven't heard back from my agent today yet.

    I kind of want to call BS on the seller here.  What my agent is telling me is just not adding up for me.  I feel like I must be missing something.  

    Would love to hear thoughts from you guys on this.

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    I guess this thread should be in the 'deal diaries' forum but I didn't plan for things to turn out this way.

    It's been a few days since I've shared an update and I had  some new developments today so I thought it post-worthy.

    I mentioned the seller appealing the appraisal and things about that process not making sense to me.  Well it didnt make sense because I didnt have all the info...as suspected.

    The way the appeal process works is that the seller can submit additional comps to the lender who takes that information back to the underwriter and appraiser for another review of the original appraisal, including the new data.  This is not a new appraisal as I originally thought/was told.

    After that process completed BofA came back today and said they still had the same position on the value.  So I was unfortunately not able to move forward.

    I'm persistent so I immediately reached out to other recommended lenders and now it is looking like I am going to have to get another appraisal with a new lender in order to get the LTV I need.

    Overall this has been a pretty frustrating first transaction but I'm now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.  My lesson learned is to work with local lenders or small banks.  The big guys really cant get it done.  There is just too much red tape.

    My credit score is in the highest range so I was totally not expecting the financing to be a problem. Turns out, it was the biggest problem due to the lending policies at BofA.  Specifically the requirements they have for acceptable comparable properties.  Even though they had the cheapest financing they almost cost me the deal.

    I've still not closed, but I'm feeling better about it, although I've seen first hand that 'it aint over till its over'. 

    I've got an extension on my purchase agreement so things are looking up now.  Hopefully next week I will get new financing in place and can move forward with the purchase.

  • Real Estate Agent / Real Estate Investor · Orem, UT · Member since 2017 · 41 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    I didn't go through all the comments so sorry if I'm repeating. The real question should be is how do the numbers look? What is your NOI, cap rate and cash flow? Yes, the end purchase price is something to consider but when I look at purchasing an investment property I'm not only considering the purchase price I'm looking for a favorable cap rate and a property that is cash flowing at least $1,500 after "ALL" expenses and mortgage. The average cap for our Utah market is 5-5.5% cap rate and I won't buy anything that's below a 7% cap. Are you seeing a favorable cap rate and cash flow on this property with the offer you submitted and are currently under contract at? If so, it may be worth it to consider paying above appraised value. The low appraisal is just an opportunity to negotiate a better deal to increase a favorable cap rate and cash flow that you should have offered and been under contract at in the first place.

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    @Chase Leavitt

    $1500 cash flow a month?  You are saying you get $1500/month free cash flow after all expenses for a single door?  That's amazing if so.

    My estimates for cap rate is 5.2; NOI is about 5K; cash flow is about $100. Not great numbers but good enough for me right now.

  • Real Estate Agent / Real Estate Investor · Orem, UT · Member since 2017 · 41 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Brad E. correction, $1,500 per a fourplex (4-doors), so at least $375 per a door or more. 

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    @Chase Leavitt

    Very nice still!

  • Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 69 votes
    9y

    @Brad E.

    Let me give you an insight into a similar situation of yours that I recently dealt with.

    Although it might be slightly different, I'm sure you can relate to my story.

    I had to learn it the hard way- lost roughly $1000 on Due diligence, credit check, flood cert, and Appraisal partially on my part but you can't predict everything.

    So here goes:

    I went through the whole process, placing an offer, getting a counter, accepting, depositing due diligence deposit and earnest money. I had 2 weeks to do the due diligence process= get my home inspection, start my loan paperwork with the local lender, get an appraisal. I wanted to do it within the 2 weeks of due diligence process because I knew if I went over that and I still haven't finalized my research on the property, I could lose big.

    Based on my home inspection I found out that there were a lot of repairs to be done, already with a thin margin of ~$50/month cash flow (if you take out all expenses including PM), I would be at a loss for quite some time because of repairs being factored into it. Going in, when I did the walk through, I didn't see anything that would be a major concern (I wish I had more knowledge and/or had a home inspector come out with me on another time after I walk the property initially). Big ticket items such as: toilet leak leading to replace the whole bathroom floor, faucet leaks on under sinks, etc etc (something I hadn't noticed during my initial inspection). Long story short, I was looking at around $1000 repairs and HVAC needed replacement in roughly 3-4 years. With $50/month cash flow, that is way too thin of a margin for me to factor in the repair cost and items such as HVAC (even if I added in the CapEX expense per month-which I did).

    All in all, I asked the seller to repair everything based on my home inspection. They only agreed on fixing minor things and I could not do it because of the big ticket items that would eat into my cash flow. So I terminated my contract and took my loss.

    I learned a lot, but it hurt to lose $1K into thin air. My advice is this: you have to look at your numbers: for your case, even if you're paying 11K over, if you have $100 cash flow (like you said) a month, that is a pretty good margin- not too thin- you have a decent amount of cushion if things go wrong- assuming you did your analysis correctly. If you're a buy and hold (long-term) investor like me, I would still do it even if it appraised lower than your purchase price. Also, if your market is on the rise, that property can appreciate and make-up for the $11K difference and you're still making money with the cash flow! It really depends on your goal, if you want cash flow, and it works, go for it. If you're trying to flip, that is a different story.

    Good luck and hope to hear how it went!

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    @Peter K.

    Man, that is painful.  

    Thank you for sharing.  

    I'm doubling down now, actually.  Today I have started the process over again with another lender and extended my contingencies.

    Everyone I have talked to says that I got a bad appraisal the first time around.  This new lender is also telling me he thinks it should appraise.

    So its pretty risky going back again for another appraisal but I think it will appraise this time.  All the time and effort I put in with BofA was a waste.  I lost about $750 so far since the first appraisal was useless.  

    Really hoping this next one comes back at contract value or better.

    I'll definitely share.

  • Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 69 votes
    9y

    @Brad E.

    If that's the case, the better! Hope everything works out.

    Side note, did you use a mortgage broker or searched these banks on your own?

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    @Peter K.

    This is a local mortgage company.  

    I will never deal with a big bank on a mortgage again.  I've been burned twice now by bank of america.

  • Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    9y

    @Peter K.

    ....this place was recommended to my be a friend.  

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