Racism versus Return

91 Replies

@Grayson Gist

Just look for another contractor. If he ever contacted you again just let him know that your moral values are different from his views. You don’t have to confront him first. It will be a waste of energy from your part. Good luck!

Originally posted by @Account Closed :

Discrimination is illegal. Free speech is a constitutional right, which suggests the freedom to ignore someone else's free speech is also a constitutional right. Where do you draw the line between political correctness and individual opinion?

For example, William Shockley was a co-inventor of the transistor (smartphones would not work without them) and a proponent of eugenics. His company, Shockley Semiconductor, spawned Silicon Valley (he was a tyrant and no one wanted to work for him, so his employees left and started their own competing semiconductor company). Do you boycott everything electronic because one of its founding inventors was a racist ("the fruit of the poisonous tree")? Or do you recognize this one particular person's limitations for what they are and vow not to make his mistakes yourself ("be an exemplary model")?

I've been in corporate meetings where people used racial epithets. I had to work with some of these people every day. It would not have been practical for me to lecture them or refuse to work with them. But I did have control over my own words and deeds, so I ignored their bad words and got on with my job.

Just to clarify---"fruit of the poisonous tree"  refers to evidence obtained illegally.  Not the future products of a company run by bad people.  John D. Rockefeller Sr. was no saint but I'm guessing most of us are willing to drive cars anyway.

I know many people are quiet racists,  but if they're so dumb as to show me that at the first meeting...that's all I need to know.  Where I spend my money MATTERS.   

That's crazy that guy was willing to come out and say things like that. If this really happened then let's put a name to the anonymous contractor..... What is this guy and his company's name?

@Grayson Gist He would definitely not get my business. That is VERY unprofessional and that speaks a lot about his character. I'd question his integrity and how he would speak of me to others since he felt so comfortable to speak negatively of others to a stranger. Cut ties and keep your business/name out of that man's mouth.
@Grayson Gist I often go with the contractor who is both reasonably priced and has upstanding character (as far as I can tell). Sounds like this guy understandably rubbed you the wrong way. I would go with someone else but wouldn't confront him. You will just fall into his enemy category. In a case like this I just don't call them back. If they reach out to me I politely thank them for their time but that I have hired another company. No details.

@Grayson Gist Guess I'm gonna be the lone voice of dissent here...Who cares what his views are? Are you hiring him to give you morality lessons or build a fence? Being a bigot is not a crime and in fact is protected under our first amendment.  If he has bigoted views then those are just his views; you have yours, he has his. I've had tenants who would not allow a white person to come in and do a repair in their home. She didn't want any "white devils" in her home. Did that offend me? No, because her views are her views. I actually went out of my way to accommodate her; not to affirm her bigoted point of view but to show her this "white devil" actually cared about her point of view. Tolerance is what allows us all to live in an open and free society.

Don't support trash, bro. That dude clearly doesn't understand the power of social media if he's just spouting out BS like that. He's lucky you're not name dropping. Good on you for that. 

Originally posted by @Robert Gilstrap :

@Grayson Gist Guess I'm gonna be the lone voice of dissent here...Who cares what his views are? Are you hiring him to give you morality lessons or build a fence? Being a bigot is not a crime and in fact is protected under our first amendment.  If he has bigoted views then those are just his views; you have yours, he has his. I've had tenants who would not allow a white person to come in and do a repair in their home. She didn't want any "white devils" in her home. Did that offend me? No, because her views are her views. I actually went out of my way to accommodate her; not to affirm her bigoted point of view but to show her this "white devil" actually cared about her point of view. Tolerance is what allows us all to live in an open and free society.

There's a huge difference between the OP's example and your example. In the original topic, the guy is denying homes to most likely qualified individuals. Solely based on their race. He is "hurting" other people. I use quotes cause he's not physically harming them, but you know what I mean.

In your example, if that lady doesn't get repairs done, she's only hurting herself. Or your property. And if she's hurting your property, you have every right to remove her. You wouldn't be in the wrong. Good on you for accommodating to her and showing her that white people aren't all as lame as she thinks.

My 2 cents. *kanye shrug*

Me being a minority......it happens all the time from cars (im a car guy) to houses.......as far as not wanting to rent/sale to me and some of my friends.........i definitely dont support it.........

No struggle here- I want to sleep well at night and handing money to a blatant, sleazy racist because I wanted to save a couple bucks wouldn't help me do that. Find another contractor, don't even think twice. Money isn't that important. 

Originally posted by @Nancy P. :
Originally posted by @Roger Steciak:

Discrimination is illegal. Free speech is a constitutional right, which suggests the freedom to ignore someone else's free speech is also a constitutional right. Where do you draw the line between political correctness and individual opinion?

For example, William Shockley was a co-inventor of the transistor (smartphones would not work without them) and a proponent of eugenics. His company, Shockley Semiconductor, spawned Silicon Valley (he was a tyrant and no one wanted to work for him, so his employees left and started their own competing semiconductor company). Do you boycott everything electronic because one of its founding inventors was a racist ("the fruit of the poisonous tree")? Or do you recognize this one particular person's limitations for what they are and vow not to make his mistakes yourself ("be an exemplary model")?

I've been in corporate meetings where people used racial epithets. I had to work with some of these people every day. It would not have been practical for me to lecture them or refuse to work with them. But I did have control over my own words and deeds, so I ignored their bad words and got on with my job.

Just to clarify---"fruit of the poisonous tree"  refers to evidence obtained illegally.  Not the future products of a company run by bad people.  John D. Rockefeller Sr. was no saint but I'm guessing most of us are willing to drive cars anyway.

I know many people are quiet racists,  but if they're so dumb as to show me that at the first meeting...that's all I need to know.  Where I spend my money MATTERS.   

I agree "fruit of the poisonous tree" has a particular meaning in the context of a Supreme Court ruling. I'm generalizing the phrase to encompass socially responsible investing ("do well by doing good").

For example, tobacco is a legal product, but some people will not invest in companies making these products because of their negative opinion of them ("poisonous tree") and the profits made from selling them ("fruit of the poisonous tree").

This thread is about racism, but the idea is the same -- where do you allocate your money (landlords run a business) and still be able to sleep well at night. It's the classic Principal vs. Principle dilemma every business person faces.

@Chesare Johnson   Your point is well taken however, the original topic had nothing to do with the bigoted guy refusing to rent to people it had to do with whether or not this person should employ the bigoted guy to build a fence or not based on his bigoted views. My point was what relationship does a bigoted viewpoint have to skillset in building a fence? None in my opinion. I don't condone the bigots viewpoint I'm just saying I don't see the connection. I hire guys all the time who live in a way that I don't necessarily condone but guess what, none of that is my business. I'm hiring them for a skill, not for their morality. Plus if we're gonna talk morality for every person we hire then that becomes REALLY subjective REALLY quick. 

Originally posted by @Robert Gilstrap :

@Chesare Johnson   Your point is well taken however, the original topic had nothing to do with the bigoted guy refusing to rent to people it had to do with whether or not this person should employ the bigoted guy to build a fence or not based on his bigoted views. My point was what relationship does a bigoted viewpoint have to skillset in building a fence? None in my opinion. I don't condone the bigots viewpoint I'm just saying I don't see the connection. I hire guys all the time who live in a way that I don't necessarily condone but guess what, none of that is my business. I'm hiring them for a skill, not for their morality. Plus if we're gonna talk morality for every person we hire then that becomes REALLY subjective REALLY quick. 

 The contractor lacks professionalism... This should of never even been a topic brought up in a job walk.

If he can't professionally engage me a potential client and be respectful I don't even want to think of how he would engage some one that fit the description he was ranting about... Who very well could be a tenant etc.

Plus the guys wasn't the cheapest so literally no point in hiring him.