THIS is why your Realtor is Ignoring you-DATA says they Should!

90 Replies

If you spend any measurable amount of time browsing the BP forums you have probably come across a thread or two that was started by a new investor who's having a heck of a time getting a Realtor to work with them in an out of state market. As you can see by my post count under my dashingly handsome headshot, I've been on BP for quite some time, and I can tell you that I have personally read 100's of these types of threads.

So the question is, why is this? Why is it so hard for an out of state investor to create a mutually beneficial relationship with a Realtor in an out of state market? Is it because Realtors are bad at their jobs? Or is it because out of state investors are bad clients?

The simple answer is YES to both questions.

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because Realtors suck at their jobs.

AND

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because out of state investors are horrible clients.

___

Now before all you out of state investors and Realtors start jumping down my throat, let me explain. Ya see this is not simply an opinion piece, I've got the data to back it up.

As for the Agents in the equation. Industry wide close to 9 out of 10 agents will leave the industry every single year. That's a nationwide statistic and it's been like that for decades. So if you are thinking it's the Agent's fault as to why investors and agents can't create a mutually beneficial relationship you'd be right about 90% of the time.

___

Why do so many agents leave the business?

The 1st thing we need to look at is money. Most out of state investors are looking at properties in the "turnkey" space and the price points are sub $100k. Often times way less than that when investors want to do BRRRR deals and things of that nature. So if you're an investor and you are looking at doing these deals and are trying to connect with a Realtor to do them you've got to understand that the Realtor is looking at a commission that's going to fall anywhere in the $500 to $2,500 range. Myself I've sold over $200 Million worth of this type of property to investors and I can say the commission of an investor focused Realtor is roughly $1,250 when you average it all together. Having done 1,000's of sales I've got a good amount of data to say that's a very fair estimate.

Now as an investor you may be thinking that's a good chunk of money because you are going to buy several properties from this agent. You are probably thinking you are a heck of catch because of all that residual income they will be getting because you are a big bad investor. Surely if an agent meets you they will be the 1 out of 10 who are making good money and staying in the business. Right?

No. Not at all. In fact, you're probably the type of client who's going to earn them an hourly rage far below minimum wage. Burger flippers are actually going to pull down a much higher dollar per hour than agents working with out of state investors.

Many of you know that I run a show called The MLS Search & Analysis Show. What this is, is how I work with investor buyers to help them buy rentals from the MLS. This is a paid show. You must pay me up front to work with me. I will not work with you as an agent unless you pay up front. The reason behind this is simply math. I would not make enough money working with you if I didn't. This is why the agents working with investors often fall into the 90% that quit the industry.

Prior to this show I was selling investment properties but knew that the pay rate was not sustainable without an up front fee. With the show being a numbered episodic show it's become very easy for me to track the data and really hammer down exactly how little money these agents are making when they work with you guys.

Here is what the data says.

Over the last 10 months or so I have been hired by investors to analyze properties for them and submit an offer on said property if they were interested in buying it after my analysis answered all of the questions investors ask on everyone of these properties. Basic stuff but basic stuff that takes up an agents time to get to you such as current rent, market rent, mechanical ages and things like that.

Over the last 10 months gone over about 1,100 properties for investors. In going over 1,100 properties for these investors it's resulted in roughly 95 sales. With an average commission of $1,250 we are looking at $118,750 in gross commission or an average commission per property looked at of $107.96.

Now how long does it take to look at / go over a property with an investor? An hour? Two hours? Three? Are you an investor who wants to fly into town and drive around all day? If yes, let's call it 4 hours between 

  • Driving to the house
  • Touring the house
  • Having "coffee" to get to know one another
  • Writing the offer
  • Negotiating the offer terms with the seller
  • Setting up the appraisal
  • Setting up the inspection
  • Answering all the questions during escrow etc.
  • Post closing questions and follow up etc.

___

Effective Dollar Per Hour $26.99.

___

Of course agents have to advertise to bring in clients. If nobody knows who you are how can they work with you after all? They can't. Lead generation is the most important part to an agent's success. So let's reinvest 20% of that revenue into lead generation. 

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $21.60.

___

But wait, we aren't done yet. No, ya see most Agents working with low commission properties like this haven't sold $200 Million in real estate. Most agents working these super low commission deals are new agents who have yet to move onto the high cost suburbs with owner occupants. Most agents don't have a sophisticated TV show with 10 Million+ views. Most agents aren't working with buyer's who are so committed to buying that they have paid money up front, many of their hours are spent combing through all of the tire kicker's endless questions so most agents working with investors aren't closing sales at the rate I am. They are probably at best able to close their deals at a about a third of the rate I am.

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $7.20

___

But wait, there is more. These agents are not business owners, no they are working for a Broker so guess what, they've got to pay a commission split. Let's call that 20%

___

Final Effective Dollar Per Hour of an Investor Focused Agent is $5.76

___

So there you have it folks. If you are wondering why you are having such a tough time getting an agent to be excited about working with an investor no you know why. You represent a pay rate of $5.76 an hour to these people. With an effective dollar per hour pay rate of $5.76 is it a surprise that 90% of the agents talking to investors are terrible at their jobs? What quality human being is going to work for $5.76 an hour? Working with you as an investor isn't this magical carrot that all of these agents are chasing. Nope, not even close.

Originally posted by @James Wise :

If you spend any measurable amount of time browsing the BP forums you have probably come across a thread or two that was started by a new investor who's having a heck of a time getting a Realtor to work with them in an out of state market. As you can see by my post count under my dashingly hansom headshot I've been on BP for quite some time, and I can tell you that I have personally read 100's of these types of threads.

So the question is, why is this? Why is it so hard for an out of state investor to create a mutually beneficial relationship with a Realtor in an out of state market? Is it because Realtors are bad at their jobs? Or is it because out of state investors are bad clients?

The simple answer is YES to both questions.

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because Realtors suck at their jobs.

AND

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because out of state investors are horrible clients.

___

Now before all you out of state investors and Realtors start jumping down my throat, let me explain. Ya see this is not simply an opinion piece, I've got the data to back it up.

As for the Agents in the equation. Industry wide close to 9 out of 10 agents will leave the industry every single year. That's a nationwide statistic and it's been like that for decades. So if you are thinking it's the Agent's fault as to why investors and agents can't create a mutually beneficial relationship you'd be right about 90% of the time.

___

Why do so many agents leave the business?

The 1st thing we need to look at is money. Most out of state investors are looking at properties in the "turnkey" space and the price points are sub $100k. Often times way less than that when investors want to do BRRRR deals and things of that nature. So if you're an investor and you are looking at doing these deals and are trying to connect with a Realtor to do them you've got to understand that the Realtor is looking at a commission that's going to fall anywhere in the $500 to $2,500 range. Myself I've sold over $200 Million worth of this type of property to investors and I can say the commission of an investor focused Realtor is roughly $1,250 when you average it all together. Having done 1,000's of sales I've got a good amount of data to say that's a very fair estimate.

Now as an investor you may be thinking that's a good chunk of money because you are going to buy several properties from this agent. You are probably thinking you are a heck of catch because of all that residual income they will be getting because you are a big bad investor. Surely if an agent meets you they will be the 1 out of 10 who are making good money and staying in the business. Right?

No. Not at all. In fact, you're probably the type of client who's going to earn them an hourly rage far below minimum wage. Burger flippers are actually going to pull down a much higher dollar per hour than agents working with out of state investors.

Many of you know that I run a show called The MLS Search & Analysis Show. What this is, is how I work with investor buyers to help them buy rentals from the MLS. This is a paid show. You must pay me up front to work with me. I will not work with you as an agent unless you pay up front. The reason behind this is simply math. I would not make enough money working with you if I didn't. This is why the agents working with investors often fall into the 90% that quit the industry.

Here is what the data says.

Over the last 10 months or so I have been hired by investors to analyze properties for them and submit an offer on said property if they were interested in buying it after my analysis answered all of the questions investors ask on everyone of these properties. Basic stuff but basic stuff that takes up an agents time to get to you such as current rent, market rent, mechanical ages and things like that.

Over the last 10 months gone over about 1,100 properties for investors. In going over 1,100 properties for these investors it's resulted in roughly 95 sales. With an average commission of $1,250 we are looking at $118,750 in gross commission or an average commission per property looked at of $107.96.

Now how long does it take to look at / go over a property with an investor? An hour? Two hours? Three? Are you an investor who wants to fly into town and drive around all day? If yes, let's call it 4 hours between 

  • Driving to the house
  • Touring the house
  • Having "coffee" to get to know one another
  • Writing the offer
  • Negotiating the offer terms with the seller
  • Setting up the appraisal
  • Setting up the inspection
  • Answering all the questions during escrow etc.
  • Post closing questions and follow up etc.

___

Effective Dollar Per Hour $26.99.

___

Of course agents have to advertise to bring in clients. If nobody knows who you are how can they work with you after all? They can't. Lead generation is the most important part to an agent's success. So let's reinvest 20% of that revenue into lead generation. 

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $21.60.

___

But wait, we aren't done yet. No, ya see most Agents working with low commission properties like this haven't sold $200 Million in real estate. Most agents working these super low commission deals are new agents who have yet to move onto the high cost suburbs with owner occupants. Most agents don't have a sophisticated TV show with 10 Million+ views. Most agents aren't working with buyer's who are so committed to buying that they have paid money up front, many of their hours are spent combing through all of the tire kicker's endless questions so most agents working with investors aren't closing sales at the rate I am. They are probably at best able to close their deals at a about a third of the rate I am.

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $7.20

___

But wait, there is more. These agents are not business owners, no they are working for a Broker so guess what, they've got to pay a commission split. Let's call that 20%

___

Final Effective Dollar Per Hour of an Investor Focused Agent is $5.76

___

So there you have it folks. If you are wondering why you are having such a tough time getting an agent to be excited about working with an investor no you know why. You represent a pay rate of $5.76 an hour to these people. With an effective dollar per hour pay rate of $5.76 is it a surprise that 90% of the agents talking to investors are terrible at their jobs? What quality human being is going to work for $5.76 an hour? Working with you as an investor isn't this magical carrot that all of these agents are chasing. Nope, not even close.

 Great post. And that's an impressive conversion rate (8 1/2%); imagine what your take would be on a sub-5% conversion rate!

Although I was looking at that dashingly handsome photo and man, you need to lay off the Frost Glacier Gatorade - it's doing some funny things to your skin color! 🤣


Originally posted by @JD Martin :
Originally posted by @James Wise:

If you spend any measurable amount of time browsing the BP forums you have probably come across a thread or two that was started by a new investor who's having a heck of a time getting a Realtor to work with them in an out of state market. As you can see by my post count under my dashingly hansom headshot I've been on BP for quite some time, and I can tell you that I have personally read 100's of these types of threads.

So the question is, why is this? Why is it so hard for an out of state investor to create a mutually beneficial relationship with a Realtor in an out of state market? Is it because Realtors are bad at their jobs? Or is it because out of state investors are bad clients?

The simple answer is YES to both questions.

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because Realtors suck at their jobs.

AND

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because out of state investors are horrible clients.

___

Now before all you out of state investors and Realtors start jumping down my throat, let me explain. Ya see this is not simply an opinion piece, I've got the data to back it up.

As for the Agents in the equation. Industry wide close to 9 out of 10 agents will leave the industry every single year. That's a nationwide statistic and it's been like that for decades. So if you are thinking it's the Agent's fault as to why investors and agents can't create a mutually beneficial relationship you'd be right about 90% of the time.

___

Why do so many agents leave the business?

The 1st thing we need to look at is money. Most out of state investors are looking at properties in the "turnkey" space and the price points are sub $100k. Often times way less than that when investors want to do BRRRR deals and things of that nature. So if you're an investor and you are looking at doing these deals and are trying to connect with a Realtor to do them you've got to understand that the Realtor is looking at a commission that's going to fall anywhere in the $500 to $2,500 range. Myself I've sold over $200 Million worth of this type of property to investors and I can say the commission of an investor focused Realtor is roughly $1,250 when you average it all together. Having done 1,000's of sales I've got a good amount of data to say that's a very fair estimate.

Now as an investor you may be thinking that's a good chunk of money because you are going to buy several properties from this agent. You are probably thinking you are a heck of catch because of all that residual income they will be getting because you are a big bad investor. Surely if an agent meets you they will be the 1 out of 10 who are making good money and staying in the business. Right?

No. Not at all. In fact, you're probably the type of client who's going to earn them an hourly rage far below minimum wage. Burger flippers are actually going to pull down a much higher dollar per hour than agents working with out of state investors.

Many of you know that I run a show called The MLS Search & Analysis Show. What this is, is how I work with investor buyers to help them buy rentals from the MLS. This is a paid show. You must pay me up front to work with me. I will not work with you as an agent unless you pay up front. The reason behind this is simply math. I would not make enough money working with you if I didn't. This is why the agents working with investors often fall into the 90% that quit the industry.

Here is what the data says.

Over the last 10 months or so I have been hired by investors to analyze properties for them and submit an offer on said property if they were interested in buying it after my analysis answered all of the questions investors ask on everyone of these properties. Basic stuff but basic stuff that takes up an agents time to get to you such as current rent, market rent, mechanical ages and things like that.

Over the last 10 months gone over about 1,100 properties for investors. In going over 1,100 properties for these investors it's resulted in roughly 95 sales. With an average commission of $1,250 we are looking at $118,750 in gross commission or an average commission per property looked at of $107.96.

Now how long does it take to look at / go over a property with an investor? An hour? Two hours? Three? Are you an investor who wants to fly into town and drive around all day? If yes, let's call it 4 hours between 

  • Driving to the house
  • Touring the house
  • Having "coffee" to get to know one another
  • Writing the offer
  • Negotiating the offer terms with the seller
  • Setting up the appraisal
  • Setting up the inspection
  • Answering all the questions during escrow etc.
  • Post closing questions and follow up etc.

___

Effective Dollar Per Hour $26.99.

___

Of course agents have to advertise to bring in clients. If nobody knows who you are how can they work with you after all? They can't. Lead generation is the most important part to an agent's success. So let's reinvest 20% of that revenue into lead generation. 

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $21.60.

___

But wait, we aren't done yet. No, ya see most Agents working with low commission properties like this haven't sold $200 Million in real estate. Most agents working these super low commission deals are new agents who have yet to move onto the high cost suburbs with owner occupants. Most agents don't have a sophisticated TV show with 10 Million+ views. Most agents aren't working with buyer's who are so committed to buying that they have paid money up front, many of their hours are spent combing through all of the tire kicker's endless questions so most agents working with investors aren't closing sales at the rate I am. They are probably at best able to close their deals at a about a third of the rate I am.

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $7.20

___

But wait, there is more. These agents are not business owners, no they are working for a Broker so guess what, they've got to pay a commission split. Let's call that 20%

___

Final Effective Dollar Per Hour of an Investor Focused Agent is $5.76

___

So there you have it folks. If you are wondering why you are having such a tough time getting an agent to be excited about working with an investor no you know why. You represent a pay rate of $5.76 an hour to these people. With an effective dollar per hour pay rate of $5.76 is it a surprise that 90% of the agents talking to investors are terrible at their jobs? What quality human being is going to work for $5.76 an hour? Working with you as an investor isn't this magical carrot that all of these agents are chasing. Nope, not even close.

 Great post. And that's an impressive conversion rate (8 1/2%); imagine what your take would be on a sub-5% conversion rate!

Although I was looking at that dashingly handsome photo and man, you need to lay off the Frost Glacier Gatorade - it's doing some funny things to your skin color! 🤣


 lol Thanks playa. Hey you should do me a solid and use your Moderator powers to fix the typo in the thread title. I am unable to edit it.

Current title is THIS is why your Realtor is Ignoring you & Data says they Should

I meant it to be THIS is why your Realtor is Ignoring you the DATA says they Should

Originally posted by @James Wise :
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

If you spend any measurable amount of time browsing the BP forums you have probably come across a thread or two that was started by a new investor who's having a heck of a time getting a Realtor to work with them in an out of state market. As you can see by my post count under my dashingly hansom headshot I've been on BP for quite some time, and I can tell you that I have personally read 100's of these types of threads.

So the question is, why is this? Why is it so hard for an out of state investor to create a mutually beneficial relationship with a Realtor in an out of state market? Is it because Realtors are bad at their jobs? Or is it because out of state investors are bad clients?

The simple answer is YES to both questions.

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because Realtors suck at their jobs.

AND

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because out of state investors are horrible clients.

___

Now before all you out of state investors and Realtors start jumping down my throat, let me explain. Ya see this is not simply an opinion piece, I've got the data to back it up.

As for the Agents in the equation. Industry wide close to 9 out of 10 agents will leave the industry every single year. That's a nationwide statistic and it's been like that for decades. So if you are thinking it's the Agent's fault as to why investors and agents can't create a mutually beneficial relationship you'd be right about 90% of the time.

___

Why do so many agents leave the business?

The 1st thing we need to look at is money. Most out of state investors are looking at properties in the "turnkey" space and the price points are sub $100k. Often times way less than that when investors want to do BRRRR deals and things of that nature. So if you're an investor and you are looking at doing these deals and are trying to connect with a Realtor to do them you've got to understand that the Realtor is looking at a commission that's going to fall anywhere in the $500 to $2,500 range. Myself I've sold over $200 Million worth of this type of property to investors and I can say the commission of an investor focused Realtor is roughly $1,250 when you average it all together. Having done 1,000's of sales I've got a good amount of data to say that's a very fair estimate.

Now as an investor you may be thinking that's a good chunk of money because you are going to buy several properties from this agent. You are probably thinking you are a heck of catch because of all that residual income they will be getting because you are a big bad investor. Surely if an agent meets you they will be the 1 out of 10 who are making good money and staying in the business. Right?

No. Not at all. In fact, you're probably the type of client who's going to earn them an hourly rage far below minimum wage. Burger flippers are actually going to pull down a much higher dollar per hour than agents working with out of state investors.

Many of you know that I run a show called The MLS Search & Analysis Show. What this is, is how I work with investor buyers to help them buy rentals from the MLS. This is a paid show. You must pay me up front to work with me. I will not work with you as an agent unless you pay up front. The reason behind this is simply math. I would not make enough money working with you if I didn't. This is why the agents working with investors often fall into the 90% that quit the industry.

Here is what the data says.

Over the last 10 months or so I have been hired by investors to analyze properties for them and submit an offer on said property if they were interested in buying it after my analysis answered all of the questions investors ask on everyone of these properties. Basic stuff but basic stuff that takes up an agents time to get to you such as current rent, market rent, mechanical ages and things like that.

Over the last 10 months gone over about 1,100 properties for investors. In going over 1,100 properties for these investors it's resulted in roughly 95 sales. With an average commission of $1,250 we are looking at $118,750 in gross commission or an average commission per property looked at of $107.96.

Now how long does it take to look at / go over a property with an investor? An hour? Two hours? Three? Are you an investor who wants to fly into town and drive around all day? If yes, let's call it 4 hours between 

  • Driving to the house
  • Touring the house
  • Having "coffee" to get to know one another
  • Writing the offer
  • Negotiating the offer terms with the seller
  • Setting up the appraisal
  • Setting up the inspection
  • Answering all the questions during escrow etc.
  • Post closing questions and follow up etc.

___

Effective Dollar Per Hour $26.99.

___

Of course agents have to advertise to bring in clients. If nobody knows who you are how can they work with you after all? They can't. Lead generation is the most important part to an agent's success. So let's reinvest 20% of that revenue into lead generation. 

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $21.60.

___

But wait, we aren't done yet. No, ya see most Agents working with low commission properties like this haven't sold $200 Million in real estate. Most agents working these super low commission deals are new agents who have yet to move onto the high cost suburbs with owner occupants. Most agents don't have a sophisticated TV show with 10 Million+ views. Most agents aren't working with buyer's who are so committed to buying that they have paid money up front, many of their hours are spent combing through all of the tire kicker's endless questions so most agents working with investors aren't closing sales at the rate I am. They are probably at best able to close their deals at a about a third of the rate I am.

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $7.20

___

But wait, there is more. These agents are not business owners, no they are working for a Broker so guess what, they've got to pay a commission split. Let's call that 20%

___

Final Effective Dollar Per Hour of an Investor Focused Agent is $5.76

___

So there you have it folks. If you are wondering why you are having such a tough time getting an agent to be excited about working with an investor no you know why. You represent a pay rate of $5.76 an hour to these people. With an effective dollar per hour pay rate of $5.76 is it a surprise that 90% of the agents talking to investors are terrible at their jobs? What quality human being is going to work for $5.76 an hour? Working with you as an investor isn't this magical carrot that all of these agents are chasing. Nope, not even close.

 Great post. And that's an impressive conversion rate (8 1/2%); imagine what your take would be on a sub-5% conversion rate!

Although I was looking at that dashingly handsome photo and man, you need to lay off the Frost Glacier Gatorade - it's doing some funny things to your skin color! 🤣


 lol Thanks playa. Hey you should do me a solid and use your Moderator powers to fix the typo in the thread title. I am unable to edit it.

Current title is THIS is why your Realtor is Ignoring you & Data says they Should

I meant it to be THIS is why your Realtor is Ignoring you the DATA says they Should

 Done - but there wasn't enough characters left so I used a dash in place of "the". 

Originally posted by @JD Martin :
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

If you spend any measurable amount of time browsing the BP forums you have probably come across a thread or two that was started by a new investor who's having a heck of a time getting a Realtor to work with them in an out of state market. As you can see by my post count under my dashingly hansom headshot I've been on BP for quite some time, and I can tell you that I have personally read 100's of these types of threads.

So the question is, why is this? Why is it so hard for an out of state investor to create a mutually beneficial relationship with a Realtor in an out of state market? Is it because Realtors are bad at their jobs? Or is it because out of state investors are bad clients?

The simple answer is YES to both questions.

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because Realtors suck at their jobs.

AND

Yes it's hard for out of state investors to work with Realtors because out of state investors are horrible clients.

___

Now before all you out of state investors and Realtors start jumping down my throat, let me explain. Ya see this is not simply an opinion piece, I've got the data to back it up.

As for the Agents in the equation. Industry wide close to 9 out of 10 agents will leave the industry every single year. That's a nationwide statistic and it's been like that for decades. So if you are thinking it's the Agent's fault as to why investors and agents can't create a mutually beneficial relationship you'd be right about 90% of the time.

___

Why do so many agents leave the business?

The 1st thing we need to look at is money. Most out of state investors are looking at properties in the "turnkey" space and the price points are sub $100k. Often times way less than that when investors want to do BRRRR deals and things of that nature. So if you're an investor and you are looking at doing these deals and are trying to connect with a Realtor to do them you've got to understand that the Realtor is looking at a commission that's going to fall anywhere in the $500 to $2,500 range. Myself I've sold over $200 Million worth of this type of property to investors and I can say the commission of an investor focused Realtor is roughly $1,250 when you average it all together. Having done 1,000's of sales I've got a good amount of data to say that's a very fair estimate.

Now as an investor you may be thinking that's a good chunk of money because you are going to buy several properties from this agent. You are probably thinking you are a heck of catch because of all that residual income they will be getting because you are a big bad investor. Surely if an agent meets you they will be the 1 out of 10 who are making good money and staying in the business. Right?

No. Not at all. In fact, you're probably the type of client who's going to earn them an hourly rage far below minimum wage. Burger flippers are actually going to pull down a much higher dollar per hour than agents working with out of state investors.

Many of you know that I run a show called The MLS Search & Analysis Show. What this is, is how I work with investor buyers to help them buy rentals from the MLS. This is a paid show. You must pay me up front to work with me. I will not work with you as an agent unless you pay up front. The reason behind this is simply math. I would not make enough money working with you if I didn't. This is why the agents working with investors often fall into the 90% that quit the industry.

Here is what the data says.

Over the last 10 months or so I have been hired by investors to analyze properties for them and submit an offer on said property if they were interested in buying it after my analysis answered all of the questions investors ask on everyone of these properties. Basic stuff but basic stuff that takes up an agents time to get to you such as current rent, market rent, mechanical ages and things like that.

Over the last 10 months gone over about 1,100 properties for investors. In going over 1,100 properties for these investors it's resulted in roughly 95 sales. With an average commission of $1,250 we are looking at $118,750 in gross commission or an average commission per property looked at of $107.96.

Now how long does it take to look at / go over a property with an investor? An hour? Two hours? Three? Are you an investor who wants to fly into town and drive around all day? If yes, let's call it 4 hours between 

  • Driving to the house
  • Touring the house
  • Having "coffee" to get to know one another
  • Writing the offer
  • Negotiating the offer terms with the seller
  • Setting up the appraisal
  • Setting up the inspection
  • Answering all the questions during escrow etc.
  • Post closing questions and follow up etc.

___

Effective Dollar Per Hour $26.99.

___

Of course agents have to advertise to bring in clients. If nobody knows who you are how can they work with you after all? They can't. Lead generation is the most important part to an agent's success. So let's reinvest 20% of that revenue into lead generation. 

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $21.60.

___

But wait, we aren't done yet. No, ya see most Agents working with low commission properties like this haven't sold $200 Million in real estate. Most agents working these super low commission deals are new agents who have yet to move onto the high cost suburbs with owner occupants. Most agents don't have a sophisticated TV show with 10 Million+ views. Most agents aren't working with buyer's who are so committed to buying that they have paid money up front, many of their hours are spent combing through all of the tire kicker's endless questions so most agents working with investors aren't closing sales at the rate I am. They are probably at best able to close their deals at a about a third of the rate I am.

___

New Effective Dollar Per Hour $7.20

___

But wait, there is more. These agents are not business owners, no they are working for a Broker so guess what, they've got to pay a commission split. Let's call that 20%

___

Final Effective Dollar Per Hour of an Investor Focused Agent is $5.76

___

So there you have it folks. If you are wondering why you are having such a tough time getting an agent to be excited about working with an investor no you know why. You represent a pay rate of $5.76 an hour to these people. With an effective dollar per hour pay rate of $5.76 is it a surprise that 90% of the agents talking to investors are terrible at their jobs? What quality human being is going to work for $5.76 an hour? Working with you as an investor isn't this magical carrot that all of these agents are chasing. Nope, not even close.

 Great post. And that's an impressive conversion rate (8 1/2%); imagine what your take would be on a sub-5% conversion rate!

Although I was looking at that dashingly handsome photo and man, you need to lay off the Frost Glacier Gatorade - it's doing some funny things to your skin color! 🤣


 lol Thanks playa. Hey you should do me a solid and use your Moderator powers to fix the typo in the thread title. I am unable to edit it.

Current title is THIS is why your Realtor is Ignoring you & Data says they Should

I meant it to be THIS is why your Realtor is Ignoring you the DATA says they Should

 Done - but there wasn't enough characters left so I used a dash in place of "the". 

 You sir, are a dashingly handsome man.

Great post James. It also illustrates why top producering agents like myself and you are selective on who we work with.  Ill do about 50 or so deals this year, and that comes from somwhere arouns 800-1000 people contacting me in the year.  I simply can not give that many people any meaningful time if I want to close 40 or 50 deals in a year. 

Ive found through trial and error, I simply do not work with out of state investors, period. None of them close. None of them are agressive enough to get a property in my market. (This doesnt extend to out of the area people relocating here, I love relocations).  

But like that, I need to filter out who I think is going to actually transact. I cant spend 10 or 15 hours with someone who ultimately isn't going to close a deal. I need to know what my hourly rate is, and I need to make sure Im actually making that hourly rate. 

Originally posted by @Russell Brazil :

Great post James. It also illustrates why top producering agents like myself and you are selective on who we work with.  Ill do about 50 or so deals this year, and that comes from somwhere arouns 800-1000 people contacting me in the year.  I simply can not give that many people any meaningful time if I want to close 40 or 50 deals in a year. 

Ive found through trial and error, I simply do not work with out of state investors, period. None of them close. None of them are agressive enough to get a property in my market. (This doesnt extend to out of the area people relocating here, I love relocations).  

But like that, I need to filter out who I think is going to actually transact. I cant spend 10 or 15 hours with someone who ultimately isn't going to close a deal. I need to know what my hourly rate is, and I need to make sure Im actually making that hourly rate. 

 Learning when to say no to is the biggest thing that takes someone from just getting by to becoming a top producer. It's not until then, do perspective agents really take their business to the next level.

That said...

I've got to admit I am biased because I created the model but I do really like the pay to play model. Ultimately it allows me to say yes to everyone whether or not I think they've got the ability to close. Especially those whom I don't think have the ability to close. I spend a lot of time bluntly telling them why I think they are a flake. From there they learn and adjust or in some cases give up but at least we're equipped with a reality check at that point. So I like to think that those who don't close have really paid for a ton of value during 92% of the time that no deal was closed. I think a lot of agents really fail when it comes to demonstrating their value to investors. If you act like all you are there to do is open a door then that's what you'll be hired and paid to do. And as we can see, that don't pay much.

Ultimately I think more agents and investors would benefit if more agents used a hybrid pay scale like this. Combining how you're traditionally paid as an agent with something more similar to how an attorney is paid really allows for a mutually beneficial arraignment.

I recommend to aspiring investors that they should work with combination real estate/property management firms.

Top producing local agent and aspiring real estate investor whether or not they are coming from a distance seems like a terrible match from the start...

Originally posted by @Todd Rasmussen :

I recommend to aspiring investors that they should work with combination real estate/property management firms.

Top producing local agent and aspiring real estate investor whether or not they are coming from a distance seems like a terrible match from the start...

 Agreed with this. It makes the entire process much easier since the real estate agent and PM company is all under one umbrella. Why deal with multiple companies when you can deal with a one stop shop? Luckily I was able to find a great company that my family has done 4 deals with. Even if the actual sale won't provide them as much net profit, the management of the properties will more than make up for it. Do your research, I'm sure these types of companies exist in every big metropolitan city. 

Originally posted by @Todd Rasmussen :

I recommend to aspiring investors that they should work with combination real estate/property management firms.

Top producing local agent and aspiring real estate investor whether or not they are coming from a distance seems like a terrible match from the start...

 Solid insight but still a case by case basis. Depends on the situation with ownership / management and the agent and how that agent is paid. Is the broker kicking them a salary or is the owner just churning through warm bodies to drive investors around? Brokerages that have a large amount of property management clients still run a similar agent turnover rate as the rest of the industry.

Originally posted by @Hakeem Olajuwon :
Originally posted by @Todd Rasmussen:

I recommend to aspiring investors that they should work with combination real estate/property management firms.

Top producing local agent and aspiring real estate investor whether or not they are coming from a distance seems like a terrible match from the start...

 Agreed with this. It makes the entire process much easier since the real estate agent and PM company is all under one umbrella. Why deal with multiple companies when you can deal with a one stop shop? Luckily I was able to find a great company that my family has done 4 deals with. Even if the actual sale won't provide them as much net profit, the management of the properties will more than make up for it. Do your research, I'm sure these types of companies exist in every big metropolitan city. 

 Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes definitely a yes but it really depends on the situation with ownership / management and the agent and how that agent is paid. Is the broker kicking them a salary or is the owner just churning through warm bodies to drive investors around? Brokerages that have a large amount of property management clients still run a similar agent turnover rate as the rest of the industry.

Originally posted by @James Wise :
Originally posted by @Todd Rasmussen:

I recommend to aspiring investors that they should work with combination real estate/property management firms.

Top producing local agent and aspiring real estate investor whether or not they are coming from a distance seems like a terrible match from the start...

 Solid insight but still a case by case basis. Depends on the situation with ownership / management and the agent and how that agent is paid. Is the broker kicking them a salary or is the owner just churning through warm bodies to drive investors around? Brokerages that have a large amount of property management clients still run a similar agent turnover rate as the rest of the industry.

 Sure, just identifying that the residual income from management can provide additional incentive (and in our case enough) attention from a decently sized realty firm. Whether or not it's enough to be symbiotic for the broker/agent would be an interesting follow up post by someone with enough data on that situation and not something I can contribute on.

I work with nearly all investor buyers/sellers and have closed roughly 30 million over last few years. You just need to know which clients to work with and who to say isn't a good fit. Most bigger pockets buyers actually are very educated and know what to expect. Even with first time buyers I have had very few issues with anyone off here and like working with numbers savvy buyers.

The second anyone says hard money loan though, wholesalers, etc. on a consultation call, I tell them it's not a good fit working together. Or dreamers trying to do a large rehab without the skills or cash. These mild qualifications you get rid of the majority of time wasters and can focus all your time on the serious clients. 

P.S. Not sure why so many people dislike out of state. I have done several with out state buyers and if the numbers work they tend to submit very serious/aggresive offers. I work in higher price points though so it may be differant in cheaper lower class markets. 

Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow :

I work with nearly all investor buyers/sellers and have closed roughly 30 million over last few years. You just need to know which clients to work with and who to say isn't a good fit. Most bigger pockets buyers actually are very educated and know what to expect. Even with first time buyers I have had very few issues with anyone off here and like working with numbers savvy buyers.

The second anyone says hard money loan though, wholesalers, etc. on a consultation call, I tell them it's not a good fit working together. Or dreamers trying to do a large rehab without the skills or cash. These mild qualifications you get rid of the majority of time wasters and can focus all your time on the serious clients. 

P.S. Not sure why so many people dislike out of state. I have done several with out state buyers and if the numbers work they tend to submit very serious/aggresive offers. I work in higher price points though so it may be differant in cheaper lower class markets. 

 Curious as to why you would not work with an investor that uses hard money loans?

OK, I am not a realtor so different perspective here. I hired an OOS realtor last year and he is awesome. He is also a BP member now since I have used him. I understand, it is a business but often you never know who will be a whale or a minnow. (I am a crappie but wanting to be a whale)

He found a property and as luck would have it we bought the first one from him. It was his (and my) first commercial property. It wont be the last though. I would pay this guy a retainer if he asked. He is awesome. No, I wont buy every property he puts in front of me. But I will buy only from him as he has more than proven himself as an asset to my company. At least in that state anyway. 

Originally posted by @Mason Hickman :

@James Wise

Great post! How are you structuring your “pay to play” model with clients?

We do it on a per property basis. Each property gets it's own video so the client has a tangible product. They can choose to commit to one property video or buy packages in bulk at a lower cost per property. Once they get the video if they want to move forward with an offer they get me as their buyer's agent for that property. I won't represent them on any MLS deal that I haven't done a video for.

We even get those who will email in a property and ask if I'd be willing to submit an offer of X on it. The answer is no, not unless you get the paid video. It seems tempting for agents to want to just say yes because they think it's quick easy money. But you've got to go back to the data because it really isn't. That offer typically only really has an 8% chance of success and without the complete video breakdown I provide what you'll run into is non stop questions after the offer has been submitted. You get a lot of investors out there who want to make offers with no specific due diligence questions then when they think of these things after the fact they want to renege on performing on the contract. Thus, I've committed to saying no every time. Without the up front commitment from them that compensates me for the commitment to answer all of their questions, even the ones they don't yet know that they have I am not interested in the business, because as demonstrated in this post, it don't pay.

Originally posted by @Joe S. :
Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow:

I work with nearly all investor buyers/sellers and have closed roughly 30 million over last few years. You just need to know which clients to work with and who to say isn't a good fit. Most bigger pockets buyers actually are very educated and know what to expect. Even with first time buyers I have had very few issues with anyone off here and like working with numbers savvy buyers.

The second anyone says hard money loan though, wholesalers, etc. on a consultation call, I tell them it's not a good fit working together. Or dreamers trying to do a large rehab without the skills or cash. These mild qualifications you get rid of the majority of time wasters and can focus all your time on the serious clients. 

P.S. Not sure why so many people dislike out of state. I have done several with out state buyers and if the numbers work they tend to submit very serious/aggresive offers. I work in higher price points though so it may be differant in cheaper lower class markets. 

 Curious as to why you would not work with an investor that uses hard money loans?

 Because those using hard money have a below average probability of closing a deal.

Originally posted by @Mike Reynolds :

OK, I am not a realtor so different perspective here. I hired an OOS realtor last year and he is awesome. He is also a BP member now since I have used him. I understand, it is a business but often you never know who will be a whale or a minnow. (I am a crappie but wanting to be a whale)

He found a property and as luck would have it we bought the first one from him. It was his (and my) first commercial property. It wont be the last though. I would pay this guy a retainer if he asked. He is awesome. No, I wont buy every property he puts in front of me. But I will buy only from him as he has more than proven himself as an asset to my company. At least in that state anyway. 

 Well the thing is, I've never had a potential client reach out to me and say "hey man, I'm probably going to be a crap client. I assume that I won't close anything and will be way more work than a typical client of yours for less money. Can we work together?"

In other words, everyone seems to think they will be the "whale" as you put it. In reality, I know the overall probability of closed sales to properties reviewed so most everyone is going to get the same treatment. No need to play the guessing game. I put the onus of getting a deal done vs being a tire kicker on the investor. If they close deals, cool we close deals. If they don't close deals, that's cool with me too.

To put it another way. Imagine a gym that would only charge it's members based on the amount of weight they lost. I know some are going to be thinking "ohh man that's great. I only have to pay if I lose weight" but that's the incorrect thinking. That'd be a complete failure for everyone involved. Gym wouldn't make any money and thus wouldn't be able to provide it's members with a decent place to work out. Without a decent place to work out they'd be more likely to lose less wait. Everyone fails.

Originally posted by @Russell Brazil :

Great post James. It also illustrates why top producering agents like myself and you are selective on who we work with.  Ill do about 50 or so deals this year, and that comes from somwhere arouns 800-1000 people contacting me in the year.  I simply can not give that many people any meaningful time if I want to close 40 or 50 deals in a year. 

Ive found through trial and error, I simply do not work with out of state investors, period. None of them close. None of them are agressive enough to get a property in my market. (This doesnt extend to out of the area people relocating here, I love relocations).  

But like that, I need to filter out who I think is going to actually transact. I cant spend 10 or 15 hours with someone who ultimately isn't going to close a deal. I need to know what my hourly rate is, and I need to make sure Im actually making that hourly rate.

For these reasons the turnkey industry is what it is..  West coat marketing agents aligning with local rehab flippers . their fee's to sell this out of state property is quite a bit higher on a sub 100k deal.. they also do all the landholding that beginner buyers need/expect.  They do volume and work many different markets simultaneously.  Its also why wholesalers are so prevalent in the low value asset world of the mid west rust belt..  the wholesalers will make quite a bit more per deal But good ones have HUGE marketing budgets so not sure what the net really is for many of them..  Keep in mind that BP has a book out on core 4 and its starts with agent rehabber lender PM I think never actually read it but could guess what the core 4 is..

from what i see and I work with agents in 12 markets and specialize in this Niche for my funding business. is the one's we align with have pipelines to inventory / back in the day OREO stuff. 

From our experience My wife ( Oregon WA agent) and my Daughter ( las Vegas agent) I have referred a few to my wife and they have transacted but our sales points are north of 400k and well above and many are relocating its not all investors.. I just dont know many that relocated from CA to Cleveland :) .. My Daughter in Vegas has sold some investor props as Vegas when you add in all the numbers can be compelling for the 300k SFR that rents for 2200 it will kick butt on most mid west stuff based on ease of maintenance quality of tenant and UBER low tax's and no state income tax. but the majority of deals she gets out of state are relocated and the majority of her sales are 700 to 3 million.. so quite a bit different world for OOS coming to Vegas or even Portlandia.

For perspective I started my career in low value assets IE I sold land in Northern ca. from 2k a lot to say 100k a lot.. And commission were 10 to 30% that was standard.. so even in 1976 when i sold a 50 k  20 acre parcel I bagged at least 5k sometime double that..

So yes to work a real estate transaction for 1,250.00 you have to have a machine like Jim does other wise ( no pun intended ) cant see how anyone would want to do that business and I now know why so many wholesale and why so many beginner buyers look to the big turnkey marketers for inventory or a company like Roofstock..

Like Russ my wife for 2021 will do about 30 to 35 sides of which about 15 were double ended for a gross sales volume of about 30 million for 2021.  So for her she just rolls her eyes at what I do with these houses that cost less than what she can make on a nice big doubled ended transaction.  Plus zero money in marketing once you get in the bizz for 10 years or so its ALL referral.. OOS investors except some we have meet at meetups in the Bay Area were I was a guest speaker and we liked.. the others we refer to agents in her office. 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

Great post James. It also illustrates why top producering agents like myself and you are selective on who we work with.  Ill do about 50 or so deals this year, and that comes from somwhere arouns 800-1000 people contacting me in the year.  I simply can not give that many people any meaningful time if I want to close 40 or 50 deals in a year. 

Ive found through trial and error, I simply do not work with out of state investors, period. None of them close. None of them are agressive enough to get a property in my market. (This doesnt extend to out of the area people relocating here, I love relocations).  

But like that, I need to filter out who I think is going to actually transact. I cant spend 10 or 15 hours with someone who ultimately isn't going to close a deal. I need to know what my hourly rate is, and I need to make sure Im actually making that hourly rate.

For these reasons the turnkey industry is what it is..  West coat marketing agents aligning with local rehab flippers . their fee's to sell this out of state property is quite a bit higher on a sub 100k deal.. they also do all the landholding that beginner buyers need/expect.  They do volume and work many different markets simultaneously.  Its also why wholesalers are so prevalent in the low value asset world of the mid west rust belt..  the wholesalers will make quite a bit more per deal But good ones have HUGE marketing budgets so not sure what the net really is for many of them..  Keep in mind that BP has a book out on core 4 and its starts with agent rehabber lender PM I think never actually read it but could guess what the core 4 is..

from what i see and I work with agents in 12 markets and specialize in this Niche for my funding business. is the one's we align with have pipelines to inventory / back in the day OREO stuff. 

From our experience My wife ( Oregon WA agent) and my Daughter ( las Vegas agent) I have referred a few to my wife and they have transacted but our sales points are north of 400k and well above and many are relocating its not all investors.. I just dont know many that relocated from CA to Cleveland :) .. My Daughter in Vegas has sold some investor props as Vegas when you add in all the numbers can be compelling for the 300k SFR that rents for 2200 it will kick butt on most mid west stuff based on ease of maintenance quality of tenant and UBER low tax's and no state income tax. but the majority of deals she gets out of state are relocated and the majority of her sales are 700 to 3 million.. so quite a bit different world for OOS coming to Vegas or even Portlandia.

For perspective I started my career in low value assets IE I sold land in Northern ca. from 2k a lot to say 100k a lot.. And commission were 10 to 30% that was standard.. so even in 1976 when i sold a 50 k  20 acre parcel I bagged at least 5k sometime double that..

So yes to work a real estate transaction for 1,250.00 you have to have a machine like Jim does other wise ( no pun intended ) cant see how anyone would want to do that business and I now know why so many wholesale and why so many beginner buyers look to the big turnkey marketers for inventory or a company like Roofstock..

Like Russ my wife for 2021 will do about 30 to 35 sides of which about 15 were double ended for a gross sales volume of about 30 million for 2021.  So for her she just rolls her eyes at what I do with these houses that cost less than what she can make on a nice big doubled ended transaction.  Plus zero money in marketing once you get in the bizz for 10 years or so its ALL referral.. OOS investors except some we have meet at meetups in the Bay Area were I was a guest speaker and we liked.. the others we refer to agents in her office. 

Whats amazing when I think about your wife....I'm in a more expensive market than she is, Ill sell more houses than she will....yet, Ill probably finish the year with $25 million to her $30 million. So hitting the average price point higher than mine, while being in a cheaper market is incredibly impressive. People on these boards other than like you, me and James have no concept of how much $30m is. Im guessing that puts her into the top 50 solo agents in Oregon.  

Originally posted by @Russell Brazil :
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

Great post James. It also illustrates why top producering agents like myself and you are selective on who we work with.  Ill do about 50 or so deals this year, and that comes from somwhere arouns 800-1000 people contacting me in the year.  I simply can not give that many people any meaningful time if I want to close 40 or 50 deals in a year. 

Ive found through trial and error, I simply do not work with out of state investors, period. None of them close. None of them are agressive enough to get a property in my market. (This doesnt extend to out of the area people relocating here, I love relocations).  

But like that, I need to filter out who I think is going to actually transact. I cant spend 10 or 15 hours with someone who ultimately isn't going to close a deal. I need to know what my hourly rate is, and I need to make sure Im actually making that hourly rate.

For these reasons the turnkey industry is what it is..  West coat marketing agents aligning with local rehab flippers . their fee's to sell this out of state property is quite a bit higher on a sub 100k deal.. they also do all the landholding that beginner buyers need/expect.  They do volume and work many different markets simultaneously.  Its also why wholesalers are so prevalent in the low value asset world of the mid west rust belt..  the wholesalers will make quite a bit more per deal But good ones have HUGE marketing budgets so not sure what the net really is for many of them..  Keep in mind that BP has a book out on core 4 and its starts with agent rehabber lender PM I think never actually read it but could guess what the core 4 is..

from what i see and I work with agents in 12 markets and specialize in this Niche for my funding business. is the one's we align with have pipelines to inventory / back in the day OREO stuff. 

From our experience My wife ( Oregon WA agent) and my Daughter ( las Vegas agent) I have referred a few to my wife and they have transacted but our sales points are north of 400k and well above and many are relocating its not all investors.. I just dont know many that relocated from CA to Cleveland :) .. My Daughter in Vegas has sold some investor props as Vegas when you add in all the numbers can be compelling for the 300k SFR that rents for 2200 it will kick butt on most mid west stuff based on ease of maintenance quality of tenant and UBER low tax's and no state income tax. but the majority of deals she gets out of state are relocated and the majority of her sales are 700 to 3 million.. so quite a bit different world for OOS coming to Vegas or even Portlandia.

For perspective I started my career in low value assets IE I sold land in Northern ca. from 2k a lot to say 100k a lot.. And commission were 10 to 30% that was standard.. so even in 1976 when i sold a 50 k  20 acre parcel I bagged at least 5k sometime double that..

So yes to work a real estate transaction for 1,250.00 you have to have a machine like Jim does other wise ( no pun intended ) cant see how anyone would want to do that business and I now know why so many wholesale and why so many beginner buyers look to the big turnkey marketers for inventory or a company like Roofstock..

Like Russ my wife for 2021 will do about 30 to 35 sides of which about 15 were double ended for a gross sales volume of about 30 million for 2021.  So for her she just rolls her eyes at what I do with these houses that cost less than what she can make on a nice big doubled ended transaction.  Plus zero money in marketing once you get in the bizz for 10 years or so its ALL referral.. OOS investors except some we have meet at meetups in the Bay Area were I was a guest speaker and we liked.. the others we refer to agents in her office. 

Whats amazing when I think about your wife....I'm in a more expensive market than she is, Ill sell more houses than she will....yet, Ill probably finish the year with $25 million to her $30 million. So hitting the average price point higher than mine, while being in a cheaper market is incredibly impressive. People on these boards other than like you, me and James have no concept of how much $30m is. Im guessing that puts her into the top 50 solo agents in Oregon.  

thats probably a good guess.. I know she is by far number one at her office of 300 agents. we must all put in perspective though

20 million in sales sides in the SF peninsula might only be 10 to 15 sides.. my wifes average sale was above 600k per property.

but it got skewed somewhat when she sold a 6.0 million this summer..  I had bought the mansion right next to this one in 2002 from an NBA player that went bank O and finished it and sold that for 5 mil.. I was the listing agent on that one  :)  but of course I was also an owner. 

So Jims' point to out of state investors is right on target 100k and under or 125k and under you not going to get most agents to do back flips for you and if you think buying 2 or 3 of those in the course of a year or two thats nice but its not any big time buying.

I am funding another OOS investor right now on my BRRR model and we are closing 5 at a time and I funded 21 homes for him in the last 90 days. That agent who does these for him charges minimum fee of 2500.00 net to her.. these are low value BRRR situations. She will not take on the one off buyer I know that I have funded another of her clients from GB who has bought about 75 that I funded the BRRR and thats over the last 36 months with not much happening last year in Covid.. WE have a well oiled machine and team.. its hard to bust in.

So bottom line Jims  pay for help up front is well deserved and necessary for a high producing NO BS zone real estate broker ..  I have other clients of mine that i have funded over the years and they do a turn key light program they will find  do the fix up for the OOS person and charge a fee ranging from 5k to 10k per property so you get the asset at cost you get the fix up at cost and you have a TRUE PRO who owns over 220 rentals himself managing your rehab.. worth every penny.

Originally posted by @James Wise :
Originally posted by @Joe S.:
Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow:

I work with nearly all investor buyers/sellers and have closed roughly 30 million over last few years. You just need to know which clients to work with and who to say isn't a good fit. Most bigger pockets buyers actually are very educated and know what to expect. Even with first time buyers I have had very few issues with anyone off here and like working with numbers savvy buyers.

The second anyone says hard money loan though, wholesalers, etc. on a consultation call, I tell them it's not a good fit working together. Or dreamers trying to do a large rehab without the skills or cash. These mild qualifications you get rid of the majority of time wasters and can focus all your time on the serious clients. 

P.S. Not sure why so many people dislike out of state. I have done several with out state buyers and if the numbers work they tend to submit very serious/aggresive offers. I work in higher price points though so it may be differant in cheaper lower class markets. 

 Curious as to why you would not work with an investor that uses hard money loans?

 Because those using hard money have a below average probability of closing a deal.

So do you work with investors that  use hard money? 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

Great post James. It also illustrates why top producering agents like myself and you are selective on who we work with.  Ill do about 50 or so deals this year, and that comes from somwhere arouns 800-1000 people contacting me in the year.  I simply can not give that many people any meaningful time if I want to close 40 or 50 deals in a year. 

Ive found through trial and error, I simply do not work with out of state investors, period. None of them close. None of them are agressive enough to get a property in my market. (This doesnt extend to out of the area people relocating here, I love relocations).  

But like that, I need to filter out who I think is going to actually transact. I cant spend 10 or 15 hours with someone who ultimately isn't going to close a deal. I need to know what my hourly rate is, and I need to make sure Im actually making that hourly rate.

For these reasons the turnkey industry is what it is..  West coat marketing agents aligning with local rehab flippers . their fee's to sell this out of state property is quite a bit higher on a sub 100k deal.. they also do all the landholding that beginner buyers need/expect.  They do volume and work many different markets simultaneously.  Its also why wholesalers are so prevalent in the low value asset world of the mid west rust belt..  the wholesalers will make quite a bit more per deal But good ones have HUGE marketing budgets so not sure what the net really is for many of them..  Keep in mind that BP has a book out on core 4 and its starts with agent rehabber lender PM I think never actually read it but could guess what the core 4 is..

from what i see and I work with agents in 12 markets and specialize in this Niche for my funding business. is the one's we align with have pipelines to inventory / back in the day OREO stuff. 

From our experience My wife ( Oregon WA agent) and my Daughter ( las Vegas agent) I have referred a few to my wife and they have transacted but our sales points are north of 400k and well above and many are relocating its not all investors.. I just dont know many that relocated from CA to Cleveland :) .. My Daughter in Vegas has sold some investor props as Vegas when you add in all the numbers can be compelling for the 300k SFR that rents for 2200 it will kick butt on most mid west stuff based on ease of maintenance quality of tenant and UBER low tax's and no state income tax. but the majority of deals she gets out of state are relocated and the majority of her sales are 700 to 3 million.. so quite a bit different world for OOS coming to Vegas or even Portlandia.

For perspective I started my career in low value assets IE I sold land in Northern ca. from 2k a lot to say 100k a lot.. And commission were 10 to 30% that was standard.. so even in 1976 when i sold a 50 k  20 acre parcel I bagged at least 5k sometime double that..

So yes to work a real estate transaction for 1,250.00 you have to have a machine like Jim does other wise ( no pun intended ) cant see how anyone would want to do that business and I now know why so many wholesale and why so many beginner buyers look to the big turnkey marketers for inventory or a company like Roofstock..

Like Russ my wife for 2021 will do about 30 to 35 sides of which about 15 were double ended for a gross sales volume of about 30 million for 2021.  So for her she just rolls her eyes at what I do with these houses that cost less than what she can make on a nice big doubled ended transaction.  Plus zero money in marketing once you get in the bizz for 10 years or so its ALL referral.. OOS investors except some we have meet at meetups in the Bay Area were I was a guest speaker and we liked.. the others we refer to agents in her office. 

Whats amazing when I think about your wife....I'm in a more expensive market than she is, Ill sell more houses than she will....yet, Ill probably finish the year with $25 million to her $30 million. So hitting the average price point higher than mine, while being in a cheaper market is incredibly impressive. People on these boards other than like you, me and James have no concept of how much $30m is. Im guessing that puts her into the top 50 solo agents in Oregon.  

thats probably a good guess.. I know she is by far number one at her office of 300 agents. we must all put in perspective though

20 million in sales sides in the SF peninsula might only be 10 to 15 sides.. my wifes average sale was above 600k per property.

but it got skewed somewhat when she sold a 6.0 million this summer..  I had bought the mansion right next to this one in 2002 from an NBA player that went bank O and finished it and sold that for 5 mil.. I was the listing agent on that one  :)  but of course I was also an owner. 

So Jims' point to out of state investors is right on target 100k and under or 125k and under you not going to get most agents to do back flips for you and if you think buying 2 or 3 of those in the course of a year or two thats nice but its not any big time buying.

I am funding another OOS investor right now on my BRRR model and we are closing 5 at a time and I funded 21 homes for him in the last 90 days. That agent who does these for him charges minimum fee of 2500.00 net to her.. these are low value BRRR situations. She will not take on the one off buyer I know that I have funded another of her clients from GB who has bought about 75 that I funded the BRRR and thats over the last 36 months with not much happening last year in Covid.. WE have a well oiled machine and team.. its hard to bust in.

So bottom line Jims  pay for help up front is well deserved and necessary for a high producing NO BS zone real estate broker ..  I have other clients of mine that i have funded over the years and they do a turn key light program they will find  do the fix up for the OOS person and charge a fee ranging from 5k to 10k per property so you get the asset at cost you get the fix up at cost and you have a TRUE PRO who owns over 220 rentals himself managing your rehab.. worth every penny.

Wow Jay , that’s very high volume for the Realtor doing d so many bundle  deals! What state are these deals primarily located in?