Where can I find building plans for a gutted multifamily built in the 1900s?

Question

Looking for building plans for building similar to the photo. I have the opportunity to purchase a fully gutted building at a great price. The numbers don't pencil out if I have to hire an architect to draw the plan with all details from scratch.

Nik Moushon · Answer

If you can't muster the money for an architect and engineer for an apartment building you dont need to be doing apartment buildings. Not only will the city laugh you away for trying to submit plans that arent stamped by an architect and engineer, I can guarantee you that your budget is not nearly high enough for what it really is going to cost you to finish out that building. One thing to consider though, that most people don't realize, when you higher and pay for an architect/engineer to do drawings you get to count that money spend as improvements to the building when it comes time to get your commercial loan. So that money gets to count towards the collateral needed for the loan. Yes its cash up front but its not wasted. If you can't stomach putting cash up front for building an apartment building you either need to find something smaller to start with or get out of developing. Developing is just a cash hungry profession. No way around it.

Chris Seveney · Answer

@James McGovern

Highly doubtful that county will have them. Also if an architect to go in to spend a few grand to draw them up kills the deal then to me it’s not a deal if it is that tight

What are plans for?

You also can have someone who uses matterport or other software to scan and create floor plans if that’s all you need and that costs like 250

Jared W Smith · Answer

Similar thoughts. For that part of CT, I ball-parked a reno like the image from gutted to finished to be at least $600k on the low side. Probably closer to $750k. Depends on how many units. 10 units? That's at least 10 bathrooms, 10 kitchens with all new plumbing and electrical. probably new hvac too. Rethink your approach and have a realistic construction cost.

Jared W Smith · Answer

Hello @James McGovern

If you need a set of detailed plans depicting the full scope of work for building department permit(s), then you'll need an Architect regardless. CT requires an Architect (or Engineer) for projects of this nature, especially a building of this age where it's likely there's structural/framing items to address. You will likely need a new Certificate of Occupancy too, which is no small task.

Always amazes me when a design professional (Architect/Engineer) is required or needed on a project, out of all the costs, that is the one that is needed to be cut or drastically lessened. An Architect, ballpark, would be anywhere from 6-10% of the Construction cost depending on who you get and the deliverables provided. Typically 6% for bare bones permit set and you will have to find the contractor plus project manage it through construction. If Architect/Engineer sign-offs are required, it may be more. Squeezing the architect costs to save a few thousand is pennies as compared to the hundreds of thousands coming by way of costs for construction (materials & labor), filing and inspection fees, etc. A well coordinated and planned construction project due to the professional services yields less headaches, surprises and saves time which overall saves you money.

Matthew Hull · Answer

If you have to submit plans for your build out, historic records aren’t going to get you permitted. You’ll need all the requisite licensed professionals providing new drawings of what you intend to do. Check with the building permit department about exact submission requirements and what work requires licensed designers and engineers.

If you’re just saying the survey cost of getting the existing building layout documented is too much, you might be able to get creative and avoid the costs, but it’s not a great bet to make.

If it’s not penciling out doing it with professionals, this sounds like a deal you may not want to do.

Adam Fiore · Answer

Hartford, typically- is a time intensive, managerial headache. lets just say that the reconstruction of everything went nearly perfect.( Which if your first decision is to skip the professional planning process. seems highly unlikely. ) Anyways lets table this thought for a moment.  Lets assume you figured out all parts of the planning process and pulled a architect or enginner stamp out of your ass because this is a commerical buildng and no matter what in ct its required. Yet without skipping a beat you pull it off and only spend $80 a sq ft retrofiting a 6500 sq ft 6 fam for 520k for 7200-7800  a month. before expenses. On a building that probably tops out at 680k/ maybe if uts gorgeous and you find someone with more money then sense 700 but i couldnt fathom someone paying nearly 200k per unit in Hartford

The real question you want to ask yourself is, is one year of my life. Purchase price,  plus the 20% down ie 105k for construction cost.

That you probably wont wont make alot of sense to refi out of for a few years worth 3k profit on avg per month?

Between annoying the building department, and then them messing with you. The pain in the ass tenant pool, and just the bs of hartford taxes.

Arent there are better oppertunites out there ?

in summary, as a betting man. Which all investors are to a certain degree. id say you are your going to waste more money in additional interest payments alone vs paying a licensed architect

never mind the exponetially maddening cost of wasted time/ additional interest payments die to a work stoppage, additional labor cost to redo whatever you have to take apart to add whatever building department issue you didnt do correct the first time.

Which if youve done flips , but not commerical multi before, you wont miss much,  however a 6 fam is a commerical code permit so there are slight variations between the residential code for essentially all trades which if you dont have a detailed plan and you dont double check every code before you do anything but rely on cheap labor to do your due diliegence for you, what could go wrong ?

At the end of the day. As investors our job is to produce high quality end products, worth hopefully significantly more then what we paid. If you where going to be able to recreate the orginal layout, you would of been able to do so by the clues left behind by remaining framing, be it the "honey" holes where the toliets once where, the sizes of the holes in the joist would indicate what pipes ran where be it hot and cold supply, toliets, showers and other industry standard tell tale clues. Which in all reality still wouldnt help you in the architect line item at all because you need an architect or engineer stamp.

Where can I find building plans for a gutted multifamily built in the 1900s?

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